Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 33 › Conversation 033-088
Nixon phone call with Garment on Cabinet reorganization
Saturday, November 18, 1972 · 11:57 AM–12:01 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min
AI Summary
President Nixon calls Leonard Garment to coordinate a meeting at Camp David regarding the reorganization of his second-term cabinet. Nixon emphasizes his intent to break free from bureaucratic constraints by installing new personnel, specifically noting plans to move Caspar Weinberger into a major cabinet position and reassign Elliot Richardson. The conversation also transitions into a discussion on political conduct, with Nixon criticizing George McGovern’s 1972 concession statement while reflecting on his own history of gracious election losses.
- Cabinet reorganization
- Second term transition
- Bureaucracy
- Caspar Weinberger
- Elliot Richardson
- Election history
- Bicentennial Commission
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Go ahead, sir.
Hello.
Hello, good morning, sir.
Where'd I find you?
You found me sitting at my desk writing a note on the bicentennial.
Uh-huh.
Trying to figure some things out.
Are you here in Washington?
I'm in Washington.
Could you drop over to the Lincoln sitting room?
I have a few minutes before I have to get us some more dictation.
I'm sitting at my desk in my house.
Where is your house?
It's in Alexandria.
New York?
In Alexandria.
Oh.
Well, I'll tell you what you do then.
I think the better thing is this.
Why don't you come up tomorrow to Camp David?
I've got quite a slug of an appointment.
What day were you—you're scheduled to come, aren't you?
I haven't heard anything from anyone.
Well, you're on the list for next week sometime.
But tomorrow at Camp David, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, either.
That would be perfect.
Tomorrow is Sunday for Christ's sake.
I'll tell you what you can do.
Come up Monday, which is really better, because tomorrow I'm going to watch football, if you don't mind.
That's planned also for myself.
Yeah.
So come up Monday about 5 o'clock.
Be up there by about 5 o'clock, okay?
Fine, because I know I'm getting through all the cabinet now, which is a hairy experience.
I imagine so.
But actually, you know, what we're really doing is shuffling more than running.
which is the right thing, because I'm putting a new man in virtually every job.
I think you'll agree, you know, the major problem with everything, Len, people become prisoners of the bureaucracy.
And then, going over with CAP, I found this case.
Incidentally, I think you'd be pleased to know I'm giving CAP a major cabinet appointment.
That's great.
That's terrific.
And I think he deserves it, too.
I'll tell you in greatest confidence what it is.
Oh, that's marvelous.
And I'm going to move Elliott, however, to another very high position.
Because Elliott, I think, is first class, don't you think?
Well, they're both men of great intelligence and courage.
Well, anyway, just range.
Is Monday all right?
Yeah, Monday's perfect.
Fine, fine.
I'll look forward to that.
Okay, okay.
Five o'clock.
What did you think of the election this night?
Did it bother you?
Well, I thought it was a pretty good election.
Huh?
It's become a long way since that time, isn't it?
When you stop to think that ten years ago I just wrote a letter to Pat Brown, you know, and Pat Brown said he was thinking back to ten years ago when I had to make my concession statement.
Which, incidentally, if you go back and read, it looks pretty good, because I was very kind to Carl Greenberg and the good guys, and I kicked a lot of the bad guys.
But I was gracious to Brown.
That's the important thing.
What in the hell is the matter with McGovern?
That statement of his, I thought, was crazy.
There's no sense of history, any of these folks.
But, you know, when you think of Goldwater, how gracious he was after 64, how gracious I was when I lost in 60.
And when you came in, one of the best moments in the past quarter century, announcing the election of Kennedy to the joint session.
You remember when I went to the joint session?
Yeah, very moving.
But I don't mean, I'm not bragging that, but Goldwater was very good, too, you know.
He didn't say the country lost, for Christ's sake, you can't say that.
I mean, he mostly believed it.
Yeah.
Well, you're just such an impermeable part of the history of this century, of the last 25 or 30 years, and the last quarter century.
It's a unique sensation to be able to talk to you in these terms.
Okay, well, get to work on the Bicentennial.
Well, I'm working on it.
I'll see you on Monday.
Bye.
Thanks very much for calling.
NARA Description
On November 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Leonard Garment talked on the telephone from 11:57 am to 12:01 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 033-088 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 33-88
Date: November 18, 1972
Time: 11:57 am - 12:01 pm
Location: White House Telephone Operator
The President talked with Leonard Garment.
[This is the original beginning of Conversation No. 033-088, which has been merged with
Conversation No. 033-087.]
Garment's location
-Note on Bicentennial Commission
Meeting with President
-Lincoln Sitting Room
-Dictation
Garment's location
-House's location
-Alexandria, Virginia
Meeting with President
- 89 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Conversation No. 33-114 (cont’d)
-Camp David
-Time
-The President’s schedule
-Football
-Cabinet
-Day
-Time of arrival
Second term reorganization
-Cabinet
-Change
-Necessity
-Bureaucracy
-Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
-Elliot L. Richardson
Garment's schedule
-Meeting with President
-Time
*****************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during
chronological review 2007-2013]
1972 election
-Garment's reaction
-1962 election
-Edmund G. ("Pat") Brown
-The President’s letter
-The President's concession statement
-Tone
-Carl Greenberg
-Brown
-George S. McGovern
-Concession statement
-Garment’s view
-Contrast to Barry M. Goldwater in 1964 and the President in 1960
- 90 -
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY
Conversation No. 33-114 (cont’d)
-John F. Kennedy
-Goldwater
-The President’s role in history
-Garment’s view
Bicentennial
*****************************************************************Also recorded on November 18, 1972
- 033-083 11:44 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 11:44 am to 11:45 am.
- 033-084 11:45 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:45 am and 11:47 am.
- 033-085 11:47 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 11:47 am.
- 033-086 11:55 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:55 am and 11:57 am.
- 033-087 11:55 AM · 21 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:55 am and 11:57 am.
- 033-089 12:02 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 12:02 pm to 12:08 pm.
- 033-090 12:12 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 12:12 pm to 12:13 pm.
- 033-091 12:13 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:13 pm and 12:15 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 033-088, November 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/033-088 (accessed October 9, 2026).