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Conversation 037-012

TapeTape 37StartWednesday, February 28, 1973 at 11:28 PMEndWednesday, February 28, 1973 at 11:35 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On February 28, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:28 pm and 11:35 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 037-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 37-12

Date: February 28, 1973
Time: Unknown between 11:28 pm and 11:35 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

       Vietnam settlement
             -Prisoners of War [POW] release
                     -Victory
                     -Ellsworth F. Bunker
                     -Four party commission
                             -Meeting
                     -Treaty
                             -Initialing
                             -Paris
                             -William P. Rogers
                     -North Vietnamese statement
                     -Prisoners’ name
                     -Media reaction
                             -Release
                                      -Bunker
                                      -Saigon
                                      -North Vietnamese
                             -News wires
                                      -Associated Press [AP] lead
                                      -Reuters coverage
                                             -Gen. Le Quang Hoa
                             -Agreement for meeting
                                              -7-

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                        (rev. Sept-09)

                      -Economic Commission
                              -Meeting
                              -William H. Sullivan [?]
                      -Completion
                              -Stalling
                                      -Minesweeping
                                      -Rogers
                      -Adherence
                      -Nguyen Van Thieu
                      -Minesweeping
              -President's press conference
                      -Timing
              -Press coverage
                      -New York Times
                      -Silvan Fox
                      -Criticism

       President’s schedule
              -Meeting
                      -Golda Meir
                      -Yitzhak Rabin
                      -Agreement on airplanes
                             -Defense Department
                             -Suite Department
                      -Timing
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Mr. President?
You have Dr. Kissinger?
Yes, thank you, sir.
Mr. Kissinger, the president.
Mr. President?
Oh, hi, Henry.
Just wanted you to know we've won.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
That's great.
Tell me about it.
Well, they, uh... We called Bunker and told them to demand a meeting of the four-party commission.
They hadn't scheduled it till Friday.
Uh...
They wanted to have an initialing of the, in Paris, they wanted to have an initialing of the treaty.
Tomorrow afternoon, when Rogers called us and wept all over us, that this would be awful if we didn't, so... Oh, bullshit!
That's what I said, that your orders were explicit, that you had personally issued them.
That's right.
And that you...
Does he really think we could sign the treaty with having this thing hung up?
Nobody could do that.
Well, he's so... he was so focused on his conference that he forgot the other game.
Well, we then called Bunker.
Bunker insisted on a meeting.
They held the meeting and their spokesman said the way is now clear to continue the releases.
We will not demand anything difficult from the United States side.
And it's as good as done.
You think that, but he didn't give the names yet.
No, but, well, this was at the beginning of the meeting.
And they have, the meeting isn't concluded yet.
The meeting just started about 15 minutes ago.
Yeah.
But when they go into the meeting and said, the way is now clear to continue the releases, all is ready to continue the releases, he said.
Yeah.
Good.
Great.
And all the news tickers say...
Oh, how did this get out?
Bunker put it out?
No, Saiga, the North Vietnamese fellow entering the meeting.
Oh, he said that?
He said it on the way in.
Oh, great.
So what are the news pickers saying?
They say, North Vietnam said today that the way is clear now to resume releases of U.S. prisoners of war.
That's the lead on AP.
Reuters says the chief delegate...
the North Vietnamese spokesman said, at last, all is ready to continue the releases.
And the spokesman was asked whether General Hoa carried into the meeting a list of the next group of 120 Americans to be freed.
We will tell you later today, the colonel said.
Well, that's a sure tip-off, the fact that they agreed to a meeting.
And they also told us in Paris...
They wanted to have a meeting.
They wanted us to have a discussion on the Economic Commission, and Sullivan called in and asked what he should do.
I said, tell them we are not prepared to discuss it until the POWs are released.
So they told him it would be settled by noon tomorrow, Paris time.
Good.
Good.
I think it's 99% done.
And if we had been anything other than... We wouldn't get it.
Never.
They would have diddled us along.
Henry, you couldn't be sure they were going to keep those people hostage.
What have they done up to date?
That's the thing that Bill and the rest have got to realize.
They've been screwing us all the time now, and they're not going to do a thing.
And we'll continue to drag our feet in those mines, too.
Mr. President, if we had let them drag...
if we had accepted what they said this morning that they do it within the 60 days but in four stages they would have had the four stages all in the last three days now your statement which forced them when you said this morning it was within 15 days yeah well you put that in that's right that's right and you're directing Rogers not to return that's the point but you know really it's for us to
Believe me, we're not going to give them one thing if they renege on one part of this deal.
Now, you know what I mean, this idea of going ahead.
What the hell do we care about the agreement?
What the Christ do we care?
Nothing.
At the end of March, when our prisoners are out, we are in great shape.
That's right.
And they thought they could diddle us along, get a little public outcry started, focus it on Q.
On Q.
They were trying to do him in, Henry.
That was it.
And we just reacted very tough.
We sailed the whole minesweeping fleet away.
We didn't just have it inactive.
We moved it 100 miles offshore.
That's the stuff.
And we don't think they didn't notice that.
They don't usually cave unless you kick them in the groin.
Well, I'm delighted.
You know, we just have to, as we say, through all these, keep our balance.
You said it this morning when the outcome wasn't clear.
Yeah, yeah.
We know we've just got to do that.
Now, you still think that I should wait till Monday for my news?
Well, I don't know, Mr. President, whether you mightn't want to do it Friday if this thing comes off in a clear-cut way.
Mm-hmm.
In other words, right on top of it, huh?
Why not?
Could be.
I mean, you'll have brought off another one.
It's not as big as the January one, but still, they tested you.
You took charge, kept on course.
What are the nitpickers going to say now?
Well, of course I could say.
Yeah.
Well, let's see what was agreed to.
Yeah.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see.
By Monday, the thing will certainly be done.
It'll be done by then.
The only thing is that you do it Friday.
Your point is that it's a bigger news, and we might as well hit it while it's high.
If they gave us the names of the prisoners tomorrow, I'd be half inclined to do it tomorrow.
To do it Friday?
To do it Friday.
Yeah, I see your point.
And they just walk out there because, you see, another thing, too, Henry, is you realize some of our critics have got on a limb again.
You noticed this morning, the Times and the rest, this Sylvan Fox had these stories saying that this thing is all going to hell.
You noticed?
Exactly.
And didn't you have that sense a bit that they were sort of trying to push on everything?
Oh, yeah, they were trying to turn something up again.
Mm-hmm.
Well, good.
What time do we meet tomorrow?
At 11, and I have worked something out with her and the ambassador, which I think you might consider, and it also would have to support on the equipment side of the defense and state department, who've come in with an independent recommendation very similar to that.
Right, right, fine.
Why don't we...
move that time up to 10 30 what do you think don't you think we need a little more time with her than just an hour and a half oh i think you can do it in an hour and a half i think you're right too it's all in english that's right that's right and also the point is i'm going to get her in the right channel she just got an answer there you're going to talk about this damn thing and she knows that's the main thing i think it took some doing but i think she's okay right mr we'll do it i'm glad to hear this thank you well congratulations
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