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Conversation 038-014

TapeTape 38StartFriday, April 13, 1973 at 6:44 PMEndFriday, April 13, 1973 at 6:47 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon, H. R. Haldeman, and John Ehrlichman discuss the internal legal maneuvering and shifting loyalties within the administration regarding the Watergate scandal. The participants analyze the credibility of Chuck Colson and the potential for various aides to cooperate with authorities to protect their own interests. They specifically deliberate on the reliability of transcripts and whether key figures like Colson and Jeb Stuart Magruder are prepared to testify truthfully or implicate others.

WatergateChuck ColsonJohn MitchellTestimonyLegal strategyAdministration loyalties
AudioNARA Description

On April 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 6:44 pm to 6:47 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 38-14

Date: April 13, 1973
Time: 6:44 pm - 6:47 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Watergate
          -Charles W. Colson’s activities
          -White House staff’s desires
          -John N. Mitchell
                -Possible plea
                -Lawyer
          -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.’s forthcoming testimony
          -Transcript
                Colson
                                                -11-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. January-2011)

                                                            Conversation No. 38-14 (cont’d)

Haldeman conferred with John D. Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 6:44 pm and 6:47
pm.

[Begin conferral]

     Watergate
          -Transcript
               -Availability

[End conferral]

     Watergate
          -Transcript
                -Copies
                -Colson’s testimony
                      -Ehrlichman
          -Jeb Stuart Magruder’s testimony
          -Colson’s testimony
                -Analysis
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, what did your analysis of Chuck's latest, I don't know, we're just sitting here trying to untangle it.
The one thing I wanted you to throw under the pot is that you have to recognize the thing that you brought in earlier that every individual here of course is trying quite naturally to save his own position.
Second point is that one thing that demonstrates that is the almost absurd suggestion that Mitchell should go in and plead insanity, you know.
I mean, what the hell?
I mean, that's just unbelievable, you know, that they would suggest such a thing.
That shows you how— I don't think they were suggesting it.
I think he was saying that's what he would do if he were his lawyer.
I know.
I know.
They're also covering up their own— This is a rather slimy fellow.
Well, you've got to realize that this is the way they're indicating their own concern about their own problem.
That's what their lawyer is concerned about.
But I would not make decisions based simply on what they've told you on this.
I mean, obviously, the fact that Hunt's going before the jury, fine.
We understand that, and I'd make it on that.
some of the rest.
Did Chuck bring over the transcript?
Nope.
Chuck didn't have the transcript, did he?
No, and his partner said forget it.
Yeah, his partner said forget it.
You'll never get the transcript.
They swear up one side and down the other and crosswise that it's absolutely true.
But I'll tell you, listening to the thing, the other side, you're convinced that you heard the transcript, didn't you?
Yeah.
What do you think?
Do you think he's lying?
Chuck is lying?
I...
I find it very hard to believe that he's telling the truth.
And John does, too.
Isn't that true?
I think so, yes.
In fact, John said that he believed that we're good and ready to crack and go in and tell the whole question.
He isn't ready to crack.
He's obviously worked out with the lawyers.
He's trying to make the final decision as to whether he goes in and tells the truth or goes in and takes the fifth.
He obviously has crossed the bridge that he's not going to lie anymore.
All right.
All right.
At least that's my reading.
All right.
All right.
Okay.
Well, you haven't analyzed the post thing.
You're looking at it now.
Yeah.
You want to take a half hour and call me back?
All right.
Bye.
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