Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 38 › Conversation 038-014

Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Watergate and Chuck Colson

Friday, April 13, 1973 · 6:44 PM–6:47 PM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation038-014 on Tape 38StartFriday, April 13, 1973 at 6:44 PMEndFriday, April 13, 1973 at 6:47 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 038-014 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, H. R. Haldeman, and John Ehrlichman discuss the internal legal maneuvering and shifting loyalties within the administration regarding the Watergate scandal. The participants analyze the credibility of Chuck Colson and the potential for various aides to cooperate with authorities to protect their own interests. They specifically deliberate on the reliability of transcripts and whether key figures like Colson and Jeb Stuart Magruder are prepared to testify truthfully or implicate others.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Well, what did your analysis of Chuck's latest, I don't know, we're just sitting here trying to untangle it.
The one thing I wanted you to throw under the pot is that you have to recognize the thing that you brought in earlier that every individual here of course is trying quite naturally to save his own position.
Second point is that one thing that demonstrates that is the almost absurd suggestion that Mitchell should go in and plead insanity, you know.
I mean, what the hell?
I mean, that's just unbelievable, you know, that they would suggest such a thing.
That shows you how— I don't think they were suggesting it.
I think he was saying that's what he would do if he were his lawyer.
I know.
I know.
They're also covering up their own— This is a rather slimy fellow.
Well, you've got to realize that this is the way they're indicating their own concern about their own problem.
That's what their lawyer is concerned about.
But I would not make decisions based simply on what they've told you on this.
I mean, obviously, the fact that Hunt's going before the jury, fine.
We understand that, and I'd make it on that.
some of the rest.
Did Chuck bring over the transcript?
Nope.
Chuck didn't have the transcript, did he?
No, and his partner said forget it.
Yeah, his partner said forget it.
You'll never get the transcript.
They swear up one side and down the other and crosswise that it's absolutely true.
But I'll tell you, listening to the thing, the other side, you're convinced that you heard the transcript, didn't you?
Yeah.
What do you think?
Do you think he's lying?
Chuck is lying?
I...
I find it very hard to believe that he's telling the truth.
And John does, too.
Isn't that true?
I think so, yes.
In fact, John said that he believed that we're good and ready to crack and go in and tell the whole question.
He isn't ready to crack.
He's obviously worked out with the lawyers.
He's trying to make the final decision as to whether he goes in and tells the truth or goes in and takes the fifth.
He obviously has crossed the bridge that he's not going to lie anymore.
All right.
All right.
At least that's my reading.
All right.
All right.
Okay.
Well, you haven't analyzed the post thing.
You're looking at it now.
Yeah.
You want to take a half hour and call me back?
All right.
Bye.

NARA Description

On April 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 6:44 pm to 6:47 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 38-14

Date: April 13, 1973
Time: 6:44 pm - 6:47 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Watergate
          -Charles W. Colson’s activities
          -White House staff’s desires
          -John N. Mitchell
                -Possible plea
                -Lawyer
          -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.’s forthcoming testimony
          -Transcript
                Colson
                                                -11-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                            Conversation No. 38-14 (cont’d)

Haldeman conferred with John D. Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 6:44 pm and 6:47
pm.

[Begin conferral]

     Watergate
          -Transcript
               -Availability

[End conferral]

     Watergate
          -Transcript
                -Copies
                -Colson’s testimony
                      -Ehrlichman
          -Jeb Stuart Magruder’s testimony
          -Colson’s testimony
                -Analysis

Also recorded on April 13, 1973

  • 038-006 4:42 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:42 pm and 5:07 pm.
  • 038-007 5:07 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 5:07 pm to 5:08 pm.
  • 038-008 5:08 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:08 pm and 5:48 pm.
  • 038-009 5:48 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 5:48 pm to 5:58 pm.
  • 038-010 5:58 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:58 pm and 6:00 pm.
  • 038-011 6:00 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Manolo Sanchez talked on the telephone from 6:00 pm to 6:07 pm.
  • 038-012 6:16 PM · 15 min — John D. Ehrlichman and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 6:16 pm to 6:31 pm.
  • 038-013 6:31 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:31 pm and 6:44 pm.

All 42 conversations from April 13, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 038-014, April 13, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-014 (accessed October 12, 2026).