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Conversation 038-052

TapeTape 38StartSunday, April 15, 1973 at 8:14 PMEndSunday, April 15, 1973 at 8:18 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Petersen, Henry E.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On April 15, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry E. Petersen talked on the telephone from 8:14 pm to 8:18 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-052 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 38-52

Date: April 15, 1973
Time: 8:14 pm - 8:18 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry E. Petersen.

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared Richard Nixon’s Special
White House Counsel for Watergate Matters and submitted to the Committee on the Judiciary of
the House of Representatives. This transcript can be found in Submission of Recorded
Presidential Conversations (SRPC), pages 763-767 (1-5). Please refer to the logging below.]

     Watergate
          -Meeting between US Attorney and Charles N. Shaffer
                -John W. Dean, III’s plea
                -John D. Ehrlichman and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                -Information from meetings with Dean
                -Possible meeting between Dean and Ehrlichman
                -Note to President from Dean
          -Possible meeting between President and Dean
                -Topics
          -G[eorge] Gordon Liddy
                                              -31-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. January-2011)

                                                                Conversation No. 38-52 (cont’d)

                 -Conversation with John N. Mitchell
                 -Mitchell’s positions
                 -President’s position on disclosure
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello, Mr. President.
Did you get on your boat?
No, no, no.
I just came on home.
Oh, you did.
All right.
Anything further you want to report tonight before our meeting tomorrow at 1230?
Not anything especially that I didn't give you today.
Nothing that adds to what we had earlier.
That's right.
They concluded the meeting with Dean.
His counsel says he will not permit him to plead.
Permit him to plead?
In other words, he'll go to trial.
He's got to plead not guilty, huh?
That's right, unless we come to some agreement with him.
His counsel's position is that it would be a travesty to try Dean and not try Ehrlichman and Haldeman.
But the basic information to the extent that it's developed in these preliminary negotiations is much more than I gave you.
Well, let me ask you this.
Based on this, though, you mean that inhibits you from using information then?
Or how do you use it?
You can use it for leads, but you can't use it unless he pleads, right?
We cannot use it for any purpose unless he pleads.
For no purpose?
That's right.
Now, unless he pleads.
That's incorrect.
Unless we strike some agreement with him.
He had a call from Ehrlichman, and Ehrlichman wanted to meet with him tonight at about 8 o'clock.
We advised him he would have to make his own determination, but suggested he not.
He then, through his counsel, informed us that he was writing a note to you in which he would say, one,
What he was doing was in your best interest, and that would all become apparent as the situation unfolded.
Right.
Let me ask you this.
Why don't I get him in now, if I can find him and have a talk with him?
Any objection to that?
Is that all right with you?
Yes, sir.
All right.
I'm going to get him over, because I'm not going to screw around with this thing, as I told you.
All right.
I want to make sure you understand that...
As you know, we're going to get to the bottom of this then.
I think that the thing that... What do you want me to say to him?
Ask him to tell me the whole truth?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
And there's one other thing.
That is that a signal from you might bring out the truth from Liddy.
From Liddy?
Yes.
signal for me what do i do i went to john mitchell and indicated that i'm told that he would do whatever he was told to do i've never met the man i don't know what i could do with him i give him a signal well i can do it for you he literally has talked to john mitchell and said a signal from the president no he sent a signal from mitchell
Yes, sir.
And Joe indicated that he was going to stand firm.
Then how do I—I'm trying to get on—how do I get—you mean I then would go over Mitchell to Liddy and— Well, in effect— You're telling me that.
We just go and say that we've discussed this situation with the President of the United States and he thinks it's vitally important that you tell us everything you know.
I got it.
Okay.
You'll be through with your things by, you think, by 12.30, right?
Yes, sir.
Okay, well, get a good night's sleep, huh?
I will indeed.
As good as you can.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
All right, and you too.
Bye.
All right, sir.
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