Nixon phone call with Petersen on Watergate scandal and Grand jury

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Hello.

Secretary Peterson.

Hello.

Mr. President, how are you?

Hi.

I wanted you to know that I had directed Ziegler because of these damn grand jury leaks that I had any talks I had with you that I specifically do not want to know what in substance was said.

And I want you to bear that in mind because I don't want to be in a position where I might

inform somebody else you see that's the mr president special recollection you told me that very early in our early meetings and uh but i want you to be sure that that is that you remember that and we said it because i've had the second point is what i would however like to know is uh you have mitchell today yes he's in the grandeur now how long will that be do you think we'll be there several days or one day he'd be there several days

No, he will not be there several days.

I don't, you know, we may have to recall him.

I see.

My guess is he'll be out of there today.

Right.

The other thing that occurred to me, just as a matter of the strategy, which you might impress upon, it seems, the prosecutors, it seems to me, Henry, that the dragging of this thing out is going to make your problem increasingly difficult with the leaks and the statements that Magruder and Dean are making publicly and all that sort of thing.

I know, obviously, you're trying to get corroboration and that sort of thing and get down the four corners and nail it all down, but I'm inclined to think, I don't know what your views are, and maybe I'd be glad to know them, but if I were sitting in that spot, your spot, I would try to accelerate the thing if you know pretty well what the hell's going to happen, or do you agree with that?

I don't know.

Well, I agree with it, but I don't agree with it that it's practical.

I see.

We don't have control of the situation.

That's our problem.

I see.

Every individual involved in this has a lawyer.

Every one of them has to be scheduled.

I see.

Every one of them is reluctant.

Every one of them has to be recalled.

The grand jury transcript has to be reviewed each day in the light of what's gone before.

I get it.

Well, I just want to throw that out, and I can see the practical problem.

So you can write it.

is that the calling of Mitchell early, I think, was a good idea, don't you think, just to get it done with?

Well, I think so.

Because you—but now, wait a minute, you haven't hurt LaGruder yet, have you?

Well, we've got his statement in extenso.

No, no, no, but you haven't had him for the grand jury.

No, no, no, no.

And we're putting him—we're going to lie detector now, you know, to—

Was he taking a lie detector?

Yesterday, and he's still on it.

Yeah.

And you're going to have Strawn on it, too?

Yes, sir, after Magruder.

How about Dean?

We haven't decided on that yet, because Dean is still in arms-length negotiation.

He hasn't really decided to be a witness yet.

And that brings you back to that critical problem, doesn't it?

Yes.

It occurs to me that one other point you've got in, Dean, is we want to be fair to individuals in all this case, is that I suppose that it would seem to me that you could distinguish that whatever he did as basically work product, you know, and so forth and so on, as counsel is one thing.

What he did as an activist is something else again.

I suppose that distinction is something you're bearing in mind.

that he's bearing in mind.

In other words, if Dean's conducting an investigation, I'm just trying to figure, I'm figuring now, I'm just trying to think about his own vulnerability.

If Dean conducts an investigation, that's one thing.

When he's involved as an activist, and the cover-up process is something else again.

But is there any distinction there that can be made?

I haven't talked to Dean, so I'm just asking you.

It may be that there's a... certainly to the extent that he's involved as an activist, but...

If he has information, he has to give it.

That's the point.

Well, you know, if it's information with respect to a violation of the law...

Right, right.

You know, then... Of course, of course.

No, I'm frankly thinking...

I'm not talking about his testimony.

I'm talking about his own legal liability.

And there, his liability runs only to his activism.

unless he was suppressing a violation of the law, then he's guilty of that too, suppressing information on the violation of the law.

That's true, but that becomes a very refined doctrine, Mr. President.

Right, right.

If you know a fact, which fact is the ultimate object of a conspiracy, and you perform an act, which may be in a sense neutral in other circumstances, but can be construed as aiding and furthering it.

Right, right.

Well, as I told you, as far as Dean is concerned, and this isn't true of any of these, there is absolutely no, there's no primary recruiters.

I haven't seen him at all.

But as far as any others, there is no privilege, whatever, except for conversations with the president, which I think, and anything national security.

But that's the only thing.

Otherwise, you just go right to the heart of this damn thing.

I was just up talking to Kleindienst.

The Secretary of Commerce had approached him after your cabinet meeting this morning about McGruder's status.

Oh, yeah.

And McGruder had tendered his oral resignation to accept at the pleasure of the Secretary.

And we left it on this basis, one, that he would request his formal resignation as a

If for any reason he had a change of heart and was unwilling to submit it, McGruder was unwilling to submit it, that he would be placed in a suspension status immediately.

Oh, you asked the Secretary of Commerce is going to request his resignation?

No, he offered his resignation.

I see.

What we think is the distinguishing factor.

I see.

But he offered it orally.

I see.

Now, we've suggested the Secretary tell him to put it in writing, and he's prepared to accept it.

Now, if he has a change of heart,

then we've told the secretaries to say, well, in view of what you've told me, I think you simply ought to go on a suspended status.

And we'll leave the resignation alone until...

Right.

But now, as you understand, I have not done that with Dean, and I don't intend to.

I understand, but I think this is a different situation.

Yeah, I understand, because McGridder's talking.

That's right.

And Dean is not.

That's right.

I mean, Dean is still at an arm's length.

That's right, sir.

And frankly, that's only fair to him.

I mean, I'm trying to be fair to all in this case.

I can't have one rule for Dean and one other rule for Holloman.

Well, that's right.

I understand that.

All I'm pointing out is that I think McClure's situation is different because the one he went in to the secretary and voluntarily offered to resign.

Right.

Exactly.

Right.

I think you're absolutely right on that.

Absolutely right.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I'll be in Florida within about an hour.

And if you have anything you think I have to know, let me know.

But otherwise, don't bother me.

Very well.

And I hope they don't bother you.

The Granger is not in session tomorrow, is it?

No, sir.

And not Sunday.

But Monday again.

If you need so, yes.

I may stay down there Monday or Tuesday myself.

Try to get a little sun.

I'll be cold.

But as I say, don't call me unless it's something you think I need to know.

Because the main thing, you've just got to be free to conduct this investigation.

And there's no, of course, you must comment there's lack of cooperation from anybody, because that is another, in addition to indictment, as a reason for lack of cooperation, I, of course, will fire anybody.

All right.

So if you're here to tell me any place in the government, out.

All right, sir.

All right.

Thank you.

Nixon phone call with Petersen on Watergate scandal and Grand jury

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 20, 1973

Cite this conversation