Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 39 › Conversation 039-093

Nixon phone call with Ford on Watergate and Congressional relations

Tuesday, June 5, 1973 · 5:21 PM–5:25 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsWhite House operator; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ford, Gerald R.Conversation039-093 on Tape 39StartTuesday, June 5, 1973 at 5:21 PMEndTuesday, June 5, 1973 at 5:25 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 039-093 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Congressman Gerald Ford discussed strategies to neutralize potential political disruption from Representative Pete McCloskey regarding Watergate-related initiatives by choosing to ignore his actions. The pair also reviewed ongoing personnel shifts, specifically the hiring of Melvin Laird and the sensitive, confidential return of Bryce Harlow to the White House staff. Additionally, Nixon agreed to contact William Timmons to clarify that recent leadership discussions were not intended as a criticism of his congressional relations efforts.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Congressman Ford, sir.
Hi, Mr. President.
Hi, Jerry.
Al had to go up to West Point, so I'm just checking on your friend McCluskey.
Well, I had about a 15-minute talk with him on the floor of the House.
And even though we disagree on most things, I have a good rapport with him.
He is not going to urge that action.
He is going to give
as I diagnosed his comments to me, a sort of academic discussion.
He is not going to urge the direct action.
He is not going to urge the action that would result in a resolution with it being referred to a committee.
And after this somewhat lengthy discussion with him, I talked to Les and to one or two others, and it's our general
just to ignore it.
I agree.
And I talked to Louie Wyman, who, you know, is a charger.
Yeah.
And Louie was with me on this other matter a couple years ago.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
And I said, Louie, now, follow this line.
And he said, well, I'm going to be here, and if he starts to get off the track, I'm going to challenge him.
I said, well, challenge
Just don't give him a forum and don't give him an opportunity to get a story.
I think we can keep him under control.
Well, whatever it is, it's just another one of those stories that will work out.
I appreciate your taking it.
He's not a vicious fellow.
No, and he just goes off in these clouds.
If we ignore him, I think it'll be minimal.
If we challenge him, it'll get blown way out of proportion.
That's right.
Big constitutional debate.
Right.
Well, as a matter of fact, we got work to do for the country.
I just heard it.
And by golly, Jerry, we're going to do it.
And we're not going to let this Watergate stuff distract us.
I couldn't agree with you more in your comments at the breakup of the meeting.
Very apropos.
And I think we're on the track here of just
approach, and I understand Mel called me today, which I think is excellent.
Well, I knew you'd be pleased.
I couldn't mention it in the larger group, and I frankly, between you and me, I didn't want to mention it when you and Scott were there.
I'm glad you didn't, because I know why you didn't.
You know why.
It leaked.
Not from you.
Right.
Well, I couldn't
A better setup than he described just how you were trying to put it together.
Yep.
He will be the counselor to the president for domestic affairs, and he will be more of an outside, and he'll work on an inside man.
Also, for your very confidential information, we're going to get Bryce back July 1st.
Great.
Now, on the Bryce thing, that's got to be just between you and me because he has a horrific conflict of interest problem, and I've got to speak to his boss about it.
If it ever leaked out, it'll blow that up.
But you see, with Mel and Bryce and Al, we'll have a team there that more can handle that.
Congressman Timmons and his group will still do all the legwork.
But I really think you've got a great team, which will really be better than the one we had before.
I'm glad you mentioned Bill, because I said to him after the meeting that I thought this was great.
And Bill said, gee, it looked like you all were criticizing me and our operation.
I said, Bill, that wasn't.
our intent, and I'll tell the president when I see him.
Sure.
I knew that.
As a matter of fact, I'd look over there to him and do that, mainly because these guys have got to think that I'm acting on it, see?
Right.
And we are.
We are.
Well, he does a hell of a good job.
And incidentally, you ought to see every paper that comes in here that's got Timmons either for or against me, because he's a real fighter.
I agree.
And give him a little pat on the back, because he thought this morning that we were being critical of him.
Yeah.
All right, I'll give him a call.
Okay.
Fine, thank you.
Good to talk to you.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On June 5, 1973, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 5:21 pm to 5:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 039-093 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 39-93

Date: June 5, 1973
Time: 5:21 pm - 5:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The White House operator talked with the President.

       Incoming telephone call

The President talked with Gerald R. Ford.

[See also Conversation No. 441-19]

       Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s schedule
             -West Point

       Watergate
             -Ford’s conversation with Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey
                    -McCloskey’s forthcoming action
                    -Ford’s subsequent conversations
                             -Leslie C. Arends
                             -Louis C. Wyman
             -McCloskey
                    -Forthcoming action
                             -Administration response
             -President’s statement
                    -Republican Congressional leadership meeting

       Melvin R. Laird’s role on White House staff
             -Telephone call to Ford
             -Announcement
                     -Republican Congressional leadership meeting
                     -President’s meeting with Ford and Hugh Scott
                     -Possible leak

       Bryce N. Harlow
             -Role on White House staff
                                             -74-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                               Conversation No. 39-93 (cont’d)

              -Announcement
                     -Ford
              -President’s forthcoming conversation with employer [at Procter & Gamble ?]
                     -Conflict of interest
                             -Possible effect of leak

       Congressional relations
             -Laird, Harlow, and Haig
             -William E. Timmons
                     -Conversation with Ford
                             -Criticism
                     -Ford’s assessment
                     -President’s forthcoming telephone call

Also recorded on June 5, 1973

  • 932-002 5:18 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:18 pm and 5:20 pm.
  • 932-003 5:20 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:20 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 441-019 5:21 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:21 pm to 5:25 pm.
  • 441-020 5:25 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 039-094 5:26 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:26 pm.
  • 039-095 5:26 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:26 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 441-021 5:26 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:26 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 039-096 5:27 PM · 1 min — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, William E. Timmons, and J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. talked on the telephone from 5:27 pm to 5:29 pm.

All 48 conversations from June 5, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 039-093, June 5, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/039-093 (accessed October 25, 2026).