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He is the marketplace of education and the role of the parent.

And we just spelled that out and said very forthright.

And the role of building character.

Absolutely.

Of course, I'm not going to say that Dr. Marlon in public schools can't build character.

I remember in public schools, he used to be pretty good at it.

He did some borders, you know.

Yeah, I'll take that.

And with those three things, we just jumped in and looked at this situation, you know it so well, and there was no question about it as we examined it, that this was not a narrow partisan approach, that the public interest is deeply involved, and that the child has to be the focus of our total attention.

And as we looked, it became clearer and clearer, I suppose, the obvious has a way of getting away from you, but it became clearer to us that that inner city locked in this child situation was really the one that appealed to both our hearts and our intellects.

And the commission itself, we tried to build wherever possible to draw out the logic that was either in the full commission report,

or to utilize precedents, because we're deeply aware of the constitutional issues that are involved here.

Therefore, what we did was simply look at that inner city child, recognize that this was the primary area of desperately needed response, and came up with a series of recommendations

which were predicated first on the notion that the whole welfare program is designed not to keep people out of welfare, but to get them off.

And then if we encourage, for example, working mothers by swall additional subsidies to improve her own working skills in the job market,

A modest modification in that simple device, using that same philosophy, might allow the same mother to recognize that public housing, public diet, and public products might be softened away by a choice in a non-public school, with appearance so wide.

So we have proposed that the welfare legislation take into account that small extra dimension,

which might bring up, perhaps, up to $100 more for that welfare permit of the working poor.

And throughout our law, Mr. President, we also stress, and this obviously will not be noted by me, the importance of the private sector.

The non-public, we use the words, the tough get going, and things are tough.

And to us, therefore, it would not be asking public officials to take on the total support of the non-public sector in any sense of the word.

So we responded to the poor first.

We do feel there that, again, the lack of options is a kind of demeaning quality, and that anything could be done.

Voucher system,

very systematic in scale.

We'd love to see you try particularly in those areas.

And after we finish looking at the inner city core problem, and I stress that I'm telescoping this, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to bet it very carefully, that the United States, some of the people, are those middle Americans, the typical working Americans, who

who really, I really forgot, the forgotten man in our society, who's sacrificing in front of a dynasty, carrying his own tax bill.

And there, I guess, is a part of the larger problem, certainly in terms of numbers, and we've got a tax credit.

We, yes, we really feel...

That despite the constitutional snarls, we didn't get ourselves hung up in purchase of service.

It was a body roll that came out in a sentence that we, some of us, were anticipating.

Did it happen the day before I spoke?

That Cardinal Crowe going in the car, just in his terrible blues, you know, this case, you know, and coming home from it, you know.

I don't see how the court could do it.

I don't understand.

I don't understand how the court could do it.

So what we did was simply try to, you know, put what we wanted, which we put a figure on it.

And the figure for the poor was from about 50 million dollars.

30 million dollars.

For the tax-fed 100 dollars, that's right.

For the tax-feddest, it would be less than our best guess, it would be less than 500 million dollars.

And compared to the cost of this transfer to the public system, you know, it's a saving device.

And then we looked at the suburbanites, and their needs are not quite so pressing, and if they want options, it's usually that initial construction cost, and we've suggested a loan program to such people.

We set up a return to the government.

Now these, I think, are enough of our suggestions.

We can talk about other things, but I think also going to the U.S. is a questions issue, so it's our... We have one very strong chapter addressed to non-political schools, and we have consulted with them.

The untruth of the tradition of private education, if we were to say the solution to all the problems is government, most of the solution still rests with the non-public.

They've got to, they've got to, if they're trying to know, go after them, and not throw up their hands and say, who's going to save us?

And I know, I think it's very good.

And we're very excited to get that particularly in Philadelphia, because I realize those people, it's like reaching to the choir.

They know.

But you're absolutely right.

And this is true of so many parts of our society.

They may not be able to survive without government assistance.

But without their helping themselves, all the government assistance in the world...

That's why, Mr. President, we try to be as specific in our recommendations for the public schools themselves as we did in our recommendations for government action.

That's very good.

So it's some 20 specific recommendations that they have to do, taking up their budget, recruiting students, use of paraprofessionals.

More volunteerism to the whole enterprise.

Cutting out the competition between the primary school systems that ought to be working together.

A whole series of recommendations.

And I think they'll have...

I would like to just put some in my interest.

Regardless of how long the conference delays on this, this ought to go ahead.

I hope that if you're breathing...

to discuss this particular claim, and I was very impressed by the fact that you weren't just coming in here hat in hand saying, gee whiz, please save us, leave us as we are, because so many people in the field of education, well, a rather, shall we say, unimpressive lot are the presidents of our major universities.

They've been here many times.

I have never heard one of them say what they were going to do for themselves.

I have always heard them come in, saying we need more money to subsidize our professors, more money to subsidize our students, and all that.

Never, never once have I heard them say what they were going to do for themselves.

I'm pretty sorry about that.

Mr. President, I was at one of the meetings, and I did not expect you to know this, but I'm all for it.

Well, as the President of the United States, you're in the United States, sir.

I sat for one solid hour being lectured on it.

We're getting there.

What did they say they were going to do?

Nothing.

And you asked.

I gave my speech after you left.

It was brilliant.

Right, of course.

I've never had this.

They were all crying, had to tell, what are you going to do?

Help us, help us, help us, help us.

There's a strong feeling in the country now, with regard to foreign policy, we're not going to help countries unless they're going to help themselves.

That's what the administration is about.

They are helping themselves, and they're going to make it.

But the same is true here.

Those that don't help themselves, even God can't save them.

Just a specific illustration was what the president had just Sunday to operate my own parish school successfully and economically.

I had a whole house just that I operated under capacity.

Therefore, we had an intensive recruitment program for students.

Along with the group program, we had an open house.

Half the students came to school, all volunteers, being in class for two and a half hours in a sentence.

All the teachers came, no pay, to show how they performed.

And among our two distinguished guests came Senator Percy and Congressman Kuczynski.

But it was a good example of government and private enterprise working together.

We told them,

What we wanted in tax credit is that my parish, Mr. President, we have people who are presently putting 10% of their gross income into private education.

They have two children in high school and a couple of them in the elementary school.

You can run into well over $1,000, and I'm in a parish that's all blue color, and the median income is around 10 to 12.

So now that's a lot off the gross.

Now that's better than tightness.

That's 10% for tuition fees.

All sorts of families where the mother is working part-time to get this tuition.

So when you talk about tax credits now, they really come alive.

They understand.

It won't be a big, big break for their family budgets.

Property taxes have just gone up.

Everything's gone up.

So there's great enthusiasm.

I agree.

Yes, I might add, Mr. President, that the non-public schools have already organized and have been meeting on a regular basis, and one of the reasons for these meetings is to meet some of the very challenges that we are laying here before them.

So I think this new organization known as the Council for American Private Education is going to be a big source of help to the non-public schools in this country.

And they're going to be united in many of these efforts, I'm sure.

So they are aware of the...

When was this formed?

It's the Council for American Private Education.

In fact, in our first report to the President, Mr. President, we did recommend that we, other leaders, and not major, not public school leaders throughout the country, which did take place, and since that time they have met on three or four separate occasions,

and have organized and have a constitution as well.

Through the panel, through the panel, deployment of the panel and the organization of this bell table.

And it wasn't quite presentable entirely that we established the Office of Education, the sponsorship of a meeting of the counterparts, public and private, in the 44 largest cities last fall.

And this has now been requested by all parties as a regularized event each year.

and the C-A-P-E would be the natural structure for the non-public side.

They are encouraging things on the horizon.

Yes, in other words, they're coming alive.

Yes, they are.

Exactly, and they've been, they've been derogating them, and I think in different one-to-anothers' needs, this, this, we haven't encountered such a thing.

We must be very sure that the report is broadly circulated.

Yes.

Not just over stuff because it's in the paper, and a few scripts in there that anybody's going to read it, but I'm particularly relieved that it's not a sophisticated method.

I suggested that there were perhaps marshal, or I don't know what you want, but it should be done.

I wish you would say this to the president as he feels that this report is of such significance.

Get a draw of this.

Don't just put it to the top guy.

Put it to the top guy.

You get some thinking going on.

First time I've ever asked the patients for money, I'm the authority of the president.

On that note, when we did meet, I expressed the hope that the bishops would take this report the same way they took the current commission report.

We distributed it and asked why.

And at John University, Mr. President, I heard,

Thank you.

Oh, she's great.

She's a great person.

You got a master's, didn't you?

Yes.

I was going to have her.

I couldn't come, but she did get it.

Of course, you were good for the graduation.

I don't know, we'll set it up sometime.

Yes, if you agree.

So I can be there.

Whenever you are.

Why should you?

If you were going to do your studies.

Yes, please.

I'd love to do that.

She's great.

She spoke Magos, the teachers out there, the sisters and all the rest.

Well, this isn't that typical.

She said it was very great.

She said it was dedicated to the thing, right?

And also in her practice teaching, she was very impressed by it.

What impressed her was the fact that she had a letter from one of the president's children there every week.

So this is a great, great thing, don't you think?

Well, Mr. President, I'm very sensitive to your awful schedule, but I wanted to tell you how grateful we are, and how we felt that your taking the lead in establishing a special panel of working with the Commission on the Non-Public Sector made great sense, and I think what came out of it, there were certain times when the relationships were a little bit ambiguous, and I must try not to say that, but what came out of it

It was a two-fold game, as I look back over these past two years.

One was in a full commission of greater sensitivity to the importance of the non-public sector, and their little chapter is very effective.

And on our side, throughout this report, we have said repeatedly the importance of the public school sector.

So I... And this case, incidentally, that Mr. Solskjaer mentioned,

It's an imperative, as you know, Dr. Moreland, is that total cooperation is a seamless one.

That is just a couple of things regarding what you expect this year.

You cannot really realistically expect any tax legislation during the election year.

It will not happen.

You might get it through the House, what you mean, but by the time you get over to the Senate with their enormous problems of filibuster and all the other things, I think the chances are not too great when you have in mind the fact that you don't have much time done before the Democratic Convention to see if you've got another month of May, children under the Democratic Convention, and between the conventions they may or may not do things.

On the other hand...

The administration's position on it, on the matter of, I mean, I've already seen the principal of Philadelphia, and we will take these recommendations.

The chances of tax legislation being passed in an election year, I'm not very optimistic about.

On the other hand, you should press for it.

Press very hard.

Press very hard, because

First, I could be wrong, and toward the last of the session, with political pressure, or else all of a sudden it might come true for something, you see.

The real trick is if they could take this and separate it out, hand it over to something else.

But you see, it gets involved in a whole mess of attacks through the bill.

It's too complicated.

And that's, then you're talking about months.

months of hearings and hackings and evasion and the rest, but if you could get this precisely taken out, that's still, that's what I had in mind, some way to try to talk about what happened in Conrad, and I just thought it was fine.

And that I would commend to you to keep this also in my heart for the parents of the people who are both black and white parents,

I was going to say, first I want to say, you were presently invited, now that you are here as board of the Republican Council, obviously the Democratic Party Board Committee will be invited to have you also.

And I would suggest that, I would recommend you doing this, that you do it on a bipartisan basis, after...

And because there, again, you see, you're laying a foundation for the future.

You see, H.R.

1, every lead head is that.

So, there's very, I can say here, there's all but little chance for H.R.

1.

The tax credit part, there is some chance, some chance, provided we can separate it out.

That's the scene where you've been heard speaking about.

But, anyway, what you've got to do is to lay the case over it.

By strongly arguing for it now, you get it next time, you see, in the next session of Congress, you see.

That's right.

And I think that's why the platform can be used in two areas.

The two that get up here, and you get both candidates.

You get the candidates, if you're a Democratic candidate, you're an obvious candidate.

The Republicans are already for it, but you get it.

And they'll be for it too, they'll say it right.

But you'll be very specific.

Yes.

It's like, I hope we want this.

That's the advice I'm giving you now.

We hold it all in our own possession, and I'll find my own competitor here, and I'm going to find a way to try to separate it out this year.

I don't want to discourage you too much about this year.

I don't want you to have your hopes so high.

Because I know that Congress, and I know that this time goes on, particularly in the tax field, with Russell Wong, the chairman of the House Committee, and Bill Rebels in the House.

But a lot of...

I have no question about this.

If you ever get it out before the Congress on a single shot basis, I would predict a two to one majority for you.

The problem is, have you come with it?

I think it might be useful for these panel members to know what you have commanded us to do in the Office of Education at AGW.

and acting under Mr. Elligman's direction, we now have a full-blown AGW task force at work to do the very thing the president has required him to find that elusive solution at work.

And both Lou England and Roy Morris work very closely with us on that.

A variety of options for you to weigh in the next 30 days.

Good.

The problem, of course, was the courtroom.

I can never predict what the court will do.

But I do know that courts...

Despite what they're saying, it hurts sometimes.

Very much.

And major cases keep making it, you know.

And if you don't assume that it's major, then it wasn't the case.

It's horrendous.

Caught by a million doctors being dealt with on a public school system.

The necessity to maintain a free marketplace of ideas.

The necessity to have the ingredient of character.

Well, putting a quite bluntly little religion is cool.

I just said it myself.

That's not, you're not supposed to say that.

Don't say that.

This is pretty corny.

That's a good sign.

What does it have to do with it?

You must, but remember that to the extent that you can affect public opinion, it may affect the court, you see.

God, and you ought to remember that that is still the pointer in this whole deal, because even if we had, the Congress, had passed, the court could strike it down, and that would be a constitutional matter problem, and that would give us a hard response.

I just know that you can get three-fourths of the state.

Three-fourths of the state wouldn't be a problem.

You might have retired us.

You get three-fourths of the state, and let's face it, and let's put it quite plainly, you just don't have enough Catholic population in another state.

You get a majority of the people, and a majority of the Congress, but I don't think you get three-fourths of the state.

So, with this in mind, our best advice is to find something that is constitutional, or will be held, but is constitutional, of course, something that we believe is a good chance to be held constitutional.

Try to get it through this year, build a fire on it, and...

They'll all out together next year, in case we don't get it this year.

Having in mind the fact that the fight we make this year will make it possible for you to win next year.

And I said, and I decided we're not getting up this year.

My goal is to go down.

And also, there are pressures the other way.

Sometimes in an election year, they may have more heat on them than they would have in a non-election year.

You see what I mean?

Yes.

So you've got an argument that way, too.

But I'm just taking a pile of stung here and there.

So that's the way it looks to me.

I think there's 25 years from when we came along, right?

The first time I justified him, it was just 25 years ago, about this tank.

Then we didn't even have a question.

It was just folks.

People didn't ask, could they help to knock on this?

No, they couldn't.

They were separated from churches.

They would lock the door.

Now at least, you and I think your leadership has done more than anything else.

We've got everybody talking about how they should do it.

And that's a big step forward.

But I also think...

The advantage is that I used to be as fond of attending public schools as I did in the sixth grade here in Washington.

And in order to get into college, you had to go to a private school.

That's the problem, as you know.

That's why people send their kids to private schools.

For many communities.

For many.

Oh, in California, the high schools are just as good as the private schools, you know, in here, and anywhere, you know, in Florida, probably.

But, but, nevertheless, the point is that...

I was in a particularly good position to do it, because not being a Catholic, and being also an advocate of public schools, public education, I could say, fine, this, we've got to think of this in those terms, and that pulls it around, because otherwise, and then, and another thing, too, is that, speaking like Kennedy, I have a great number of friends among what we call our fundamentalist Protestant groups, well, people like Billy Graham,

And I'm talking about this issue, and I say, no, you leave us alone.

And he says, all right, I agree.

Now, understand, I don't mean that you aren't going to get some pops from a few states, from a few others.

On the other hand, we can deduce some of that.

Well, let me, uh, we haven't been giving you cutbacks virtually.

We've got something new here.

This is a little bookmark.

Since you were booking them, we've been giving them bookmarks.

I think it's just in your Bible, or your book, or whatever you have.

I believe in reading books, not burning them.

You will pass the exile ceremony, and we appreciate your work and your dedication.

And remember that don't get discouraged.

It'll happen.

The next thing, we've changed the climate already.

Would you not agree, Dr. Martin?

The climate has changed.

Now, your job is to see that the NEA...

There it is.

I like the mark.

All right.

Well, there are a lot of good people in the NEA.

And I hope that those that are opposed to this aren't, you know, they're there.

But I just don't agree with it.

Okay, goodbye.