Nixon, Laird & Moorer on Easter Offensive and Vietnam War

4:01:13We would like to get the update if we have more economic ideas from the courage of the global leaders today.
4:01:20We're just providing us with the benefit of the leaders because the Admiral has been with us on the hill, and we want to see regions on this island.
4:02:06Ja, ja, ja.
4:03:25Well, uh, we would like to get the, uh, the, uh, the update, if we have more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
4:03:52I like to just very quickly run over
4:04:22Thank you for watching.
4:04:41A chart of Indochina.
4:04:43They had indications that the 308th invasion moved down and positioned itself just close to the DMC.
4:04:51Simultaneously, they brought in a large amount of long-range artillery, 130-kilometer artillery.
4:04:57They also concentrated a great number of service-to-air missiles just close to the DMC.
4:05:04At the same time, they brought the 304th division around here into the Schiphol area, where they could make a move to the eastwards, into the 235th, and the 324th QA went down here, so that it was focused on Hue, which is a big city in the military supply.
4:05:25First of all, we noticed that 320th Division, which also came from the central part of North Beach now, come into this area, which we call the Highlands, and position itself here in the classroom area against the Dockville-Conjuring Plate 2.
4:05:44At the same time, the North Vietnamese had three divisions in Cambodia, the 5th, 7th, and 9th, which were the ones that were involved in the cross-border operations about two years ago.
4:05:55And they were the ones that focused into militaries and streaming against the mentality of the Tiananmen area.
4:06:03So when they find out that they were, in fact, going to make an all-out effort, they had two divisions here in the Gwinnifer Jars area operating against the battleships.
4:06:16And this meant that at that point they only had one division left in North Vietnam if they, in fact, committed all the divisions that I mentioned in New South Vietnam.
4:06:28The fact is that they had not committed the three-pointed test division, which was their last,
4:06:33At the same time, we noticed a rather significant increase in airfare activity.
4:07:33We're equipped with some very modern equipment.
4:07:36Equipped by soldiers who are going to show you some pictures of those units and some of the types of equipment they get.
4:07:45When the North Vietnamese made this attack,
4:07:49They did under cover of very, very bad weather, which is prevalent in that particular area that time of year.
4:07:56And consequently, they had several days wherein they could operate freely, primarily against the 3rd Army Division, without any help being provided for the South East Base.
4:08:10Now, the Southeast Indians, of course, had liked all this movement very carefully.
4:08:15And they had had some contingency plans for reinforcements, which included their Marine Division from the Saigon area up to the Military Region 1.
4:08:24They took certain elements of their Airborne Brigade,
4:08:28and put this area in military region 2, and they had a plan for taking the 21st division from military region 4 and putting it up here in this general area in military region 3.
4:08:39And subsequently, all of those plans have in fact been executed.
4:08:43Now let me turn to region by region.
4:08:47and tell you and thank you what has happened so far, and update the situation at his hands this morning.
4:08:55First, this is the military region 1, and this is the DNC area.
4:09:03And as I said before, the 3rd Division of the Army was disposed right behind the DNC, and the 1st Division was disposed around
4:09:14which is a very valuable point to avoid if the South Sea Division is concerned, and the 2nd Division was down in the southern part of the Military Division 1.
4:09:26I have indicated here the range of the service air missiles.
4:09:32which were located north of the DNC, and which were used to get the aircraft, U.S. and South Asian aircraft, operating in this area.
4:09:43You can see then that the aircraft that were operating in support of the 3rd Division were constantly subjected to firings across the DNC.
4:09:55Since 30 March, and counting all of the air activity in South Vietnam and North Vietnam, the North Vietnamese have fired over 700 service air missiles.
4:10:07125 of these missiles will fire north of the DMZ, down into this particular area, against air transport and in support of this invasion.
4:10:20Initially, the 3rd Division fell back from these positions just south of the DMC and took a position here from Don Pa to along the Guadalajara River, which is a river that runs right in here.
4:10:35And then the Spanish Alliance...
4:10:37More or less down this way.
4:10:39Subsequent to that tank, over the weekend as you know, the Don Hawk, which was the northwest strong point here, received 4,900 rounds of 122mm and 130mm artillery, which is perhaps one of the heaviest gunnings at any point they've received in this war.
4:10:58As a result of that, the
4:11:03A series of assaults and attacks on this particular point that was done at the regional level.
4:11:19from the tracks that they then drew from Corn Creek, and now are in the process of setting up a line which has a strong point angle here on what we call Foxport Base Magic, which is in the west tip of this area.
4:11:37Now, so, you find at this point, in this particular area, a situation wherein the Great Division is just over the round way,
4:12:10Operating now for some time against efforts made by this 3.4D division to move in here.
4:12:17This division has suffered very heavy losses, and there have been several engagements here wherein the 4.4D division loses two of the 300 personnel.
4:12:30The general agent reports this morning that the first division is in good speed.
4:12:35They do need some replacements, but they are holding this position facing to the westward and the southwestward.
4:12:45The problem that is facing the south east region right now is to establish a north behind here so that the stop doesn't move down by the combination of the 308th division, the 304th division and some independent regiments that the north east region has in this area.
4:13:09And so that must be done by using reinforcements and a marine position.
4:13:14The marine position, I must say, has operated extremely well and has many, many past command and control throughout this operation.
4:13:49We take extraordinary action to replace this equipment.
4:14:17Now, so you have as I say this morning, a situation with a line running about like that, with the 1st Division holding the firm against this effort, and with activity now taking place to establish a line hanging on Fox 4 Nancy, right in this position.
4:14:37Now, just south of Military Region 1, you have demand.
4:14:41The Nang, of course, is used by the South East of East as a harbor, and also both the South East of East and the U.S. forces operate after it from the Nang.
4:14:53We've had to inspect from time to time, and have had already attacks by fire with rockets and mortars in this area, and I expect that during the forthcoming week we'll get some more of that.
4:15:06There's also been some activity down south here of Da Nang by one unit of northeastern forces, but so far apparently it has not developed as a significant threat.
4:15:21It is an area that the 196th U.S.
4:15:24Brigade is located for the best purpose of protecting this activity that's going on here in Da Nang.
4:15:34For the first military region, this is where most of the activity is taking place.
4:15:40This is where we have the most serious situation.
4:15:43This is where the North Vietnamese have the most rare accidents from a logistics point of view as well as a replacement point of view.
4:15:55I want to emphasize that this is not a one-sided affair.
4:15:59We have intercepted, among other things, that the Northeastern East is taking 2,000 wounded back by this route.
4:16:07The forward air control aircraft has observed many trucks going north with wounded in the trucks.
4:16:15And since we have laid on such a heavy air in this particular area, it's obvious that they have sustained extreme numbers of casualties in some cases.
4:16:27We haven't had any significant casualties in the case of the 3 or 4 divisions.
4:16:49And they were trying to revitalize these units.
4:16:54But nevertheless, their losses, both in equipment and personnel events, extremely heavy.
4:17:00For instance, in addition to the tanks.
4:17:04I might just mention that they had a regiment of tanks of about 160.
4:17:08They reinforced these tanks.
4:17:10They've been using tanks for the first time.
4:17:32Most of our air effort is being conducted in enemy territory.
4:17:36It's difficult for us to get immediate bomb damage assessment.
4:17:40In other words, we've got to move in there in order to get precise data so they can relax to this design.
4:17:46But nevertheless, the tanks have been destroyed.
4:17:50For instance, right here, only this morning, when the North Vietnamese attacked the Marines, the South Vietnamese Marines, and lost 10 tanks.
4:18:00The problem, as I said before, is to establish this line in some way that it can be held so that the energy markets will develop and we can work on that.
4:18:21Now, so why is the military reason one?
4:18:23Let me quickly go through the others, and then I'll talk about some of the U.S. efforts in terms of air and in terms of gunfire support.
4:18:31First, you know, it's military reason two, which is, if you want to rearrange yourself, is this area right here, what we call the highlands or the track border area where Cambodia allows itself to be there for the gun.
4:18:44As I said, the OIPC brought down the...
4:18:50It has been also subject to a situation of attrition, you might say.
4:18:58And I think that, I personally think that that first intent was to kick off down here.
4:19:06But they said it could not get started.
4:19:08The North Vietnamese will not move until they get everything in place just so.
4:19:14But Lord, I don't think that's going to happen.
4:19:16And so, due to some of their loss of basis, they did not make a move.
4:19:20Now, they have moved out now, and occupied a place called Dactyl, and they're moving south to the point where the southeast communities are standing up their defense lines just north of a place called Quantum.
4:19:36And the next place out there is 22.
4:19:42Play 2 is a larger city, of course, and there's a highway which runs from Play 2 on a straight east over here to the ocean.
4:19:56And the problem is to...
4:19:59We will keep that highway open.
4:20:00That's where the four ends have been participating during the past week.
4:20:04That highway is open.
4:20:05There have been several large civilian carboys going into place too, so there's no food problems so far as the physicians are concerned in that particular area.
4:20:16One of the military reasons too, I should say that again so far, the enemy has not made that major move, but we do anticipate that the enemy is going to make a major move against the continent.
4:20:32Also of some concern is the fact that over here in what is called Ben Den Province, which is on the water, on the ocean right here, where the North Vietnamese have maintained the units for a long, long time, and have had a UBC infrastructure, they have been...
4:21:11They have had to withdraw from some of the district headquarters, and the North Vietnamese are pretty well infiltrated, but right in this little area, right here.
4:21:24So, in these military reasons, it is like saying that we are expecting a kickoff against Khartoum any time.
4:21:33We are looking for that.
4:21:36That goes to military region 3, which is received so much publicity in terms of Antlok.
4:21:43Antlok is a little town here that's due north of Sidon.
4:21:48And the North Vietnamese moved out to Greece with their 5th division.
4:21:54As I told you, they had 3 divisions in Cambodia and this area here.
4:21:58They moved out first and laid siege, you might say, to Antlok.
4:22:03And perhaps Antelope has received about as much artillery and mortar fire as any small town or city in this particular war also, overall.
4:22:14Today, Antelope is still in the hands of the Southeast Division.
4:22:17They have expanded their parameter.
4:22:20They are still receiving a kind of...
4:22:22Tanks by fire, particularly at night.
4:22:25However, we have seen no tanks in the vicinity of Antelope, despite the fact that initially there were quite a few tanks in the area.
4:22:33And so, obviously, the North Vietnamese have withdrawn those tanks that did survive, and this doesn't mean that they might not try to use them again, but the tank activity there has been rather light and non-existent in recent days.
4:22:49In Military Division 3, the South-East Committees have the 18th, the 25th, and the 10th Divisions.
4:22:55And they have 1.5th Division as a reserve, which more or less defends the site on itself.
4:23:01When this operation commenced, they took a division from the 4th Floor area and moved it up along this road to reinforce the other action that's taking place here.
4:23:14In addition to these three days, it's been seven nights.
4:23:17The North Vietnamese also moved all the way from Hanoi.
4:23:21An independent raiment called the 202nd Quest Raiment.
4:23:25This raiment is operated by him, and in a series of fights over the weekend, they lost several hundred men.
4:23:36And we know that they are unaffected for the moment.
4:23:40Again, we would expect the North Vietnamese Senate to withdraw and try to fill them up and get them going again.
4:23:48Turning to the Delta area, military in Kuala, which is the most heavily populated, you know, here the action has been simply a series of very sharp but small encounters between the
4:24:18The action in military reason 3 is very light except for some shots and manlocks.
4:24:24Actually, military reason 2 is relatively light except, as I said, the North Vietnamese forces are trying to present themselves with an attack on Khantoum.
4:24:35In military reason 1, the problem, as I said, is to establish these lines in the north.
4:24:40Now let me talk a little bit about some of our actions with our own forces.
4:24:47As you gentlemen all know, this plane kicked off, the president directed that we augment both the air and the sea forces.
4:24:56We did this by sending additional carriers and destroyers, and as well as the institution and the ports.
4:25:24same as this red line marks the range, the area in which they can, in fact, come.
4:25:30Some of the destroyers have been hit in the flying line despite the fact that they received large shore valley fire.
4:25:39The damage to them has been very light.
4:25:42We did have, for the first time in this war, one destroyer hit by a very small bomb, delivered by B-17.
4:25:51But aside from that, they have simply been subject to attacks by P.D.
4:25:59Boats, which they have defeated quite handily.
4:26:02There have been no damage from P.D.
4:26:04Boats, and they have been firing a very large number of rounds at primarily the statistics targets.
4:26:13The air effort has also taken place in the north of the DMZ, as well as south of the DMZ, and we have been using air in military regions 234 and 1, as well as in the northeast end.
4:26:34Mr. President, I think that that is about, that is the situation that stands today.
4:26:40I'd be very happy to ask questions.
4:26:43I just covered it very quickly.
4:26:44Why don't you speak from a perspective, give an idea, and say the number of surgeries, and why, say like yesterday, or the day before.
4:26:55Yes, well...
4:26:56Combined with, if you combine the South Vietnamese effort with the U.S. effort, we've been applying something around 1,200 sorties total.
4:27:06This counts attack sorties as well as support sorties that are necessary in order to manage the whole area.
4:27:18We have...
4:27:18Yes, sir.
4:27:19The...
4:27:27So far as the action in the northeast hand is concerned, we've had two carriers that have been operating continuously, and there's also an aircraft from the 7th Air Force.
4:27:41This right here is a place called Don Hoyt, where they ship in a lot of material, and then they have a highway running down into the OCV trail.
4:27:50We've had several attacks on large numbers of trucks, supplies, P.O.L.,
4:27:57Yesterday, right at this point right here, we attacked, I think it was 128,000 50-gallon fuel drums, or something like that.
4:28:06It was well over millions of gallons, and it all went up.
4:28:10We had it smoked up to 10,000 feet.
4:28:12They've been attacked against that wall, attacked against men.
4:28:17We have been conducting attacks on point parties, such as bridges and so on, and on mobile parties.
4:28:29In other words, the aircraft that's conducting on reconnaissance primarily aimed at stopping the flow of supplies and working on that final 325th division that's been trying to move out of that.
4:28:44But...
4:28:45Generally speaking, we've had about 200 sorties in this general area during the last three or four days.
4:28:52And south, we've had something like anywhere from 340 down to 200 or so in military region 1, and then somewhere like 130 or 40 in military region 2 and 3, and about 40 of this sorties in military region 2.
4:29:11At the same time, these institutes have concentrated their air force in military region 1 and 3, to a lesser degree, in 2.
4:29:22But this distribution of strikes, of course, is controlled by the field commanders according to the typical operations of the moment.
4:29:35And the airstrikes now are predominantly invasives.
4:29:40That's where the air is needed the most, rather than... That's correct.
4:29:47In other words, as far as this being used as a concern...
4:29:50It was a point that I wish to make, that...
4:29:53I have no illusions about why the Beacon 2s are not getting further north at the moment where they're being used, where they're needed most, because in the areas of battles, where they're being annihilated, it's that I understand.
4:30:06Yes, sir, that's quite correct.
4:30:08The resources are concentrated depending on the identification of the targets and the tempo of the land action.
4:30:17as it existed at the time.
4:30:19And so this is kind of a playback of Napoleon back and forth, where one day you'll see a major atmosphere, and the next day it may be at another point.
4:30:28But that's just normal management of the resources.
4:30:36The third division, as I understand it, that's the one thing that is having the greatest difficulty.
4:30:49But in terms of the analysis of these divisions, the third, the first, the...
4:31:13One April, and this action really started on 30 March, so it had just reached its readiness date when it became involved in this action.
4:31:26As I said, when it was faced with this massive move, which had not been conducted before by the Norwegian Legion, essentially they used a very large number of tanks,
4:31:40A very large number of motorized vehicles and motorized advance units that under the 1st Division fell back in the south of the Guadalquivir River and then fought there until this weekend.
4:31:56But it wasn't one of the newer divisions.
4:31:58The 1st Division is a division that's been in this area from the outset, and it is one of the best divisions, if not the best division, that the Southeast Indies have.
4:32:08Who's the commander of the 1st?
4:32:10The commander of the British mission is General Foose of the THU.
4:32:14What was General Long?
4:32:19General Long is a man who had died in the military.
4:32:24See that?
4:32:24There's a one.
4:32:25That's General Long.
4:32:29It's been rolled on and sued into minutes and in three, and probably in four, but there may be some that have taken place in this particular command truck.
4:32:44Thank you.
4:32:49The enemy is still conducting an all-out offensive, and we can just state that there will be continued attacks from various countries, certainly the vulnerable place Kuwait, perhaps subject to very severe attacks.
4:33:10The critical thing to have in mind is that
4:33:14Of course, the importance of the regions and areas, but more importantly, the ability to solve the enemies.
4:33:25...remain as a viable force despite the offense... ...and having in mind the fact that the offense cannot continue indefinitely.
4:33:36That's correct.
4:33:37What we're really talking about is the will and determination of the South Vietnamese.
4:33:44Now, we know that the North Vietnamese have indeed what they call a logistic offense...
4:33:50In other words, they have taken extraordinary efforts to move supplies south in order to sustain this type of operation.
4:34:03And it's doubtful that they can sustain this tempo very long.
4:34:08As I mentioned, they've fired 4,900 rounds into Hong Kong.
4:34:12But at the same time, I think as they move down here, they're going to find it more difficult to
4:34:49...to be attacked.
4:35:16John, could you give us some ideas of your reaction, the reaction General Abrams has to the conduct of the South Vietnamese so far?
4:35:24Have they done about what you expect them to do, or are they better than you thought, or worse?
4:35:30Well, I think you're saying that some of them have done better, and some have done worse, John.
4:35:35I would say they've been spying, stinking everybody.
4:35:42And that's about what one might expect.
4:35:46For instance, in Headlock, where we...
4:35:50Well, comparing about the ability to hold, they finally ran it, and despite very heavy cages and very heavy damage to the city itself, now as I said, they have managed to extend the perimeter.
4:36:05So, I think that you have to say that this is one of the problems, again, getting back to will and determination.
4:36:16I think they have tried it.
4:36:19And they have the equipment in most cases.
4:36:25Well, they've shown no great direct counterattack up there, and that's one of the failings of the South Vietnamese units through the years.
4:36:32Is it likely to continue, or are they not counterattacking because they don't have the assets and...
4:36:40One of the reasons is that the North Vietnamese, as I said, having committed total inventory of resources, had been keeping heavy pressure on them.
4:36:56And there's no question about it in my mind that the North Vietnamese, this is a deliberate place themselves to live and do to die.
4:37:06And I think the fact that they committed a three-way drug division, and now there's some indication that they, which we have been watching, that one of the divisions over here has come off as moving down this way.
4:37:19They say they're choosing to wear suits.
4:37:22And so they have kept to a very maximum pressure, at a very maximum power.
4:37:26And the Soviets have provided in all these divisions with what one might call invasive-type equipment.
4:37:32And if you're interested, I have some of that.
4:37:35Let me see those photos there.
4:37:38Could you say that the lack of leadership is a proof of yourself?
4:37:43I think, unless you can always put your mind on the leadership.
4:37:50By and large, that's where the problem is.
4:37:53That's where we had to start from scratch in South East Ham to build up the leadership.
4:38:00That's the most difficult part.
4:38:01You can always say it's the leadership.
4:38:03Is there any evidence
4:38:05of a shortage of logistic capability from the north end of east as of yet, caused by the airstrikes on the supply lines.
4:38:17We've had isolated cases where they, for instance, have exhausted their fuel or exhausted their ammo.
4:38:26I think at the moment it's more of a problem of distribution rather than insurance, because they are facing this problem of having to carry the fuel and the ammo along with them.
4:38:41And so that is actually a problem of distribution.
4:38:48We've had reports of ammo shortage.
4:38:50For instance, as I mentioned, the SA-2 missiles.
4:38:53We've had the indication that some of the missile launchers up here are out of missiles and things of this kind.
4:38:59But here again, this has been fighting.
4:39:03Tom, what effect is the weather likely to have, both on air?
4:39:09This is more about the change in the seasons here.
4:39:13Yes, as I think everyone knows, the Anaheim Mountains run about so.
4:39:18And during the northeast monsoon, which is just shifting to the southwest monsoon, the winds blow across the river parking and pick up the moisture and stack it up against these mountains.
4:39:28And that's what was happening when they actually made the move across from the 30th, and why we had this cold, heavy overcast.
4:39:36Now it's shifting around so the flow comes from the northwest.
4:39:40It picks up the moisture in the Gulf Sound, backs it up on this side, and starts raining in Laos.
4:39:47And so the rains are beginning.
4:39:48We've had progress in the Porto Manila all night.
4:39:51They've changed several trucks, bogged down in front.
4:39:54It's just the beginning of the rains on the southwest side of these mountains.
4:40:02For instance, down in this particular area, it gets unusually tricky and gummy.
4:40:09And the weather has a different effect on different areas.
4:40:13So far as the logistics are concerned, of course, the easiest problem that the North Vietnamese have is just the DNC because they have destroyed a lot.
4:40:23And the weather now, fortunately, from a flying point of view, on this side of the mountain, is very good.
4:40:31Admiral, what about the logistics problems for the South Vietnamese?
4:40:34I think there's a real capacity for the North to cut through the second floor area from Can Thung to Vinh Tien.
4:40:43That's a real possibility.
4:40:44If they cut Vietnam into there, will it create logistics problems up around Hue?
4:40:51Or do you rely primarily on the sea there?
4:40:54No, I don't think it would cause a position problem anywhere around Hawaii.
4:40:59I know it's dependent on the headline of two occasions they've got to cut.
4:41:04It's not being added to all of Highway 19, but I don't think it has to.
4:41:09The biggest difficulty is that I told you, the biggest difficulty is the civilians and so on in the Plate 2 area.
4:41:18And not that it in effect cuts off the supplies from military forces up north of that area.
4:41:25The contact problems is of concern from a long range point of view in the sense that the enemy, it hasn't had any soft spot with respect to the
4:41:34I think what they're trying to do is to probably attack two or three provincial capitals.
4:41:59And this is why they have focused on pontoon, and palm trees, and so on.
4:42:05But I know that, just depending on where they are, I think they are ahead.
4:42:09It's a couple of key buildings that have met that path.
4:42:12And, well, there have been some reports of NBA divisions poised, and I think the Paralympic area of Cambodia, is there any possibility of a threat developing on the city of Saigon itself because of actions taking place there?
4:42:27The possibility, they're not divisions so much, and I mentioned there, there were two regiments right here, 271st and the 24th.
4:42:37And the 271st, though, has been very heavily mauled.
4:42:40Now, I mentioned in fact that we haven't seen any tanks hit Anilok in quite a while.
4:42:48You always have the possibility of them trying to do a...
4:42:53...planking movement, you know, and come in in that direction.
4:42:57On the other hand, they sound to me that they do have a forward evasion, doesn't this generator have?
4:43:03So, I'll just press that A1 to gate right here.
4:43:08So, it depends on, they already have the gate belt if they want to stand them off.
4:43:14Also, they, for the sound you can look for, again, along with the logistics lights...
4:43:19of the North Vietnamese Arts Center.
4:43:23But this is being watched, but we don't see any indication of such a thing developing at the moment.
4:43:31Now it is true that they have interdicted Highway 1, which runs from Saigon to Phnom Penh in Cambodia.
4:43:40The North Vietnamese have interdicted that particular highway.
4:43:46But that does not affect Saigon or the military's point of view, of course.
4:43:50It does, to some degree, affect Afghanistan.
4:43:55Admiral, in a briefing that we could do today after Kissinger pointed out, I believe that of the 43 provincial capitals we had lost, none of those landed in the territory would have fallen shortly.
4:44:05Now, how does that compare with our situation today?
4:44:09Well, we lost one.
4:44:11Just one.
4:44:12So they all came back to us.
4:44:14And they created Dr. Christopher.
4:44:19Unfortunately, too prophetic.
4:44:23The theory that he's educated is in his reading about footfall, or Kwan-Kree, and Khantung.
4:44:29Kwan-Kree has lost Khantung as a gesture, a lot at that time, of course.
4:44:36But these towns that you read about that fall, and just keeping that perspective, they're running tight, and it isn't in capital, so that's what happens to the men and the divisions, and they build on both sides.
4:44:48As far as the district capitals are concerned, there are 43.
4:44:51One is falling.
4:44:53Another country is in danger.
4:44:58What will happen to the others?
4:45:01That's what the situation is today.
4:45:04I think far more important than the district capitals is the capability, as the analyst suggested, of both sides in terms of the exaltation means to
4:45:17...through retaining their morale and spirit, and so forth, on the defense.
4:45:21And the North Korean army needs to have the ability to adjust to it, otherwise they can't clean the offense.
4:45:28Now, this battle has been going on for almost five weeks.
4:45:32Having gone on that long, the North Korean army needs...
4:45:36The south Vietnamese have their problems because, as they are a minority of Vietnamese, except for the 1st Division and 2 or 3 others, you don't have a lot of battle-starved veterans and leaders who have been tested to settle.
4:45:50Anarchy of Vietnamese are led by, I don't want to say such enormous casualties, but they're led by pretty skilled, effective leaders.
4:46:00They also, and we have to candidly realize, that they, and this is no discredit to our program, but we have to admit that the program was set up not for the purpose of office convenience, but our business is to have bigger tanks, bigger guns, and better supplies.
4:46:42I love
4:47:00The air power is not a total equalizer, but it is a considerable one.
4:47:08Basically, our air power, the packed air, has to be given to, it's an equalizer for the North Vietnamese superiority in tanking guns.
4:47:22I think if I could put it in perspective, it's very important for Junos, both in my speech a week ago, and speaking again in Dallas, to answer the question on the branch.
4:47:47I think it's very important to maintain a strong position in what we're going to do.
4:47:57As I said, this is an enormous event.
4:48:01By mass, it's totally done to be quick.
4:48:03Better equipment than the South Vietnamese have, due to the fact that the South Vietnamese are not equipped for the offensive.
4:48:12It's actually not for this kind of offense that they are now having to defend against.
4:48:17We are compensated for that to visit the equipment for the airstrikes.
4:48:23Airstrikes in the battle area, airstrikes in the arms of the cops, have the supplies that we can, and of course there was more of that.
4:48:32As far as how the battle is going, still there have been some losses on the South Vietnamese side.
4:48:39There will be more, there's no question about it.
4:48:42Because the United States does not yet run its course.
4:48:45What is in support of their mind as far as the population of the United States, the population of the country, is still under the control.
4:48:56It's also, you know, that none of the South, none of the rest of the East are moving North.
4:49:04All of them are moving South.
4:49:06And that means that our people are totally failed in their efforts to win the civilian population of the West Side, using these pictures and papers and their aspirations.
4:49:17If they like the communists so well, and hate the South Vietnamese government so much, they'll be running into the arms of the Anacortes South.
4:49:26It's probably if they take over they're going to get it.
4:49:28It's also to note that the North Vietnamese certainly have better discipline.
4:49:34At the south end, I mean, it's partly because they've been at it longer, but partly because they used president and chair, he's one of the stories, and the man came and attained the rest.
4:49:45They used chair, they used all the brutality that perhaps used to be used in the armed forces in the United States, but he didn't change it one way or another, one way or another.
4:49:57We try to get them to protect, you know, in India, because they want to, and so forth.
4:50:02But also, there have been massive cases, and this is one of the reasons you saw yesterday, that the people of Kuwait were very, very, on an emotional basis, very, very dependent on themselves, but they are having to master Kuwait, and so you see that there are massive cases, and already there have been thousands of shellings there,
4:50:24After they come in and cut the throats, murder, all those in the leader class will oppose them.
4:50:32This is just, of course, a curtain race of what will come in the future.
4:50:36There is no end.
4:50:36I say it's better.
4:50:38What could happen?
4:50:39Turkey?
4:50:39Turkey is absolutely right.
4:50:41It's in the event, for example, that the United States and Saudi Arabia collapse.
4:50:45What would they call it?
4:50:47Saudi Arabia would collapse.
4:50:48It would collapse in a matter of weeks.
4:50:52If the event that would happen, what would happen to in South Vietnam, would be similar to what happened to the North Vietnam when the North Vietnamese took over in 1984.
4:51:03The passing vision of Da Nang estimated to disturb Vietnam.
4:51:09That 500,000, I have to make it, are being used to attack us.
4:51:13In this case, we were included by some there who would oppose the communists, were murdered or starved to death.
4:51:22And the massacre, in a way, is another situation.
4:51:26It's quite different from my way.
4:51:28To us, atrocities are wrong, and they should be, and they are prosecuted.
4:51:33To them, they take a dose for it.
4:51:37Because that is the way they're operating.
4:51:39Now, having said all this, the Nazi Party is very sober, very analytical, and I'll answer this.
4:51:49This is a tough battle.
4:51:51It will continue to be a tough battle.
4:51:53But our view of the main is still the same.
4:51:56However, they are countries suffering from enormous tensions.
4:52:00South Vietnamese are fighting very well in some places, not so well in others, as would be anticipated with a relatively new army against a more spurious army, but we are providing the equalizer to the extent that we can.
4:52:14and massive air support, and massive fleet support, and let me say, those destroyers and carriers, I'm taking destroyers and cruisers and so on, we have out there doing a great job shelling those high and highway predictions with the stand.
4:52:30Now, the question as to how the battle will come out is going to depend on which of the two sides can last.
4:52:40For the North Vietnamese, the chance of seeing this, and as Rogers Morton has already implied, the general weather will become a factor in this area.
4:52:50In the next two to three weeks, the weather becomes an increasingly difficult factor for the offensive.
4:52:58It's also, of course, a factor against the air power, but it's a factor for the offensive, for a motorbike you couldn't stop getting on, because the weather becomes very difficult around the first of June, throughout the month of June.
4:53:13So I think what we can say here now is that...
4:53:17This battle is going about as we anticipated.
4:53:20The South Vietnamese members perish in the forces.
4:53:23Some of their units have not performed well.
4:53:26Others have performed heroic.
4:53:28The populace of South Vietnam, despite, of course, some pessimism that you might expect whenever they lose one provincial capital, the populace of South Vietnam has been getting it down the road.
4:53:38They have not fought for the North Vietnamese side.
4:53:41The North Vietnamese are in arms with us in Malacca.
4:53:44As far as our here, they will continue to be concerned they're going to make this a job, and they will continue to.
4:53:50As far as our here is concerned, it seems to me that our only choice is to contain, provide, match, prepare, and see who's going to do the solving of the needs, until the offensity runs its course.
4:54:04Once it runs its course, then our case will be finished.
4:54:08In Cambodia in 1970, they had trouble but they were disinvolved and they were badly mauled and that was the year.
4:54:19In Laos in 1971, despite the fact that the end of the battle given any gain on the route and so forth, you will note that there was no further North Vietnamese action in 1971 lines, because they used up their assets in the battle.
4:54:33Now it comes this year, this year is different from the end of the war in Laos in the sense that the North Vietnamese have everything now.
4:54:40They know that this is their last possibility.
4:54:43If everything except one division in 325th would be mentioned, it will now probably be many.
4:54:49As yet, for example, Americans were still there, and we had put on an inch on landing, and it's been estimated that they had virtually walked into Hanoi.
4:54:59However, we're not there.
4:55:00And I come back to the basic point.
4:55:02There are no American ground forces.
4:55:04There will be none.
4:55:05There are U.S. and American air power.
4:55:07It will continue to be there.
4:55:09And as far as the targets in North Vietnam are concerned, at the present time, in the last three weeks since our first strike on the Anaheim Islands, Canada has recommended that we attack the battle area.
4:55:20We're doing that.
4:55:21However, as far as the general attitude, the general policy is concerned,
4:55:27As long as the North Vietnamese continue their mass defense in South Vietnam, all military targets in North Vietnam will be options for us to hit.
4:55:43And they will be hit.
4:55:45That's the way it's going to be.
4:55:47So that's where she stands.
4:55:48It's bad and good, and the main thing for us to do is to, I must say, I very much appreciate the regard you give everybody around this table for all of you.
4:56:00I think one thing, the great weakness of the North Vietnamese is where they thought they would have the greatest strength, they would have the softest, but not no one.
4:56:28How people without adequate arms can often be overtaken and overwhelmed by brutalized communist portions.
4:56:37And it's here that our role is being played.
4:56:41It's a close call.
4:56:44It's a close contest, but as far as we're concerned, we have no other choice.
4:56:48If I do, no other choice is to do with the harmless consequences of extolling and supporting communists and bidding of a small country to succeed.
4:56:58If we can prevent that...
4:57:03That's the summary, I think.
4:57:06Yes, sir.
4:57:07Very, very good.
4:57:08We are going to have difficult times, but the other side is going to have difficult times, too.
4:57:15I have just one question.
4:57:16What success are you having in introducing and, I think, weapons into the infantry here in Arden?
4:57:25Arden, of course, has the LAW weapon, which is a short-range vehicle, which they use quite well.
4:57:32As a matter of fact, on occasion, they actually knocked out several tanks with 109 artillery.
4:57:39We've just been in front of that now, giving us a total of...
4:57:43Well, also, I think I mentioned the fact that it's estimated that they've lost about 300 tanks by a combination of the ground taxing as well as the annex and ship taxing.
4:57:58An indication of the North Vietnamese cash, which is that they've got approximately 130,000 North Vietnamese records in South Vietnam.
4:58:10And it's quite a chunk.
4:58:13These are first line ground troops.
4:58:17Going up, back up to Laos, already 22,000 of them already in that area.
4:58:25The question is, who lasts the longest?
4:58:40Well, what about the Vietcong?
4:58:42I was on the program with the experts.
4:58:46They said they were going to unleash an attack.
4:58:51Does the Vietcong have the potential anymore to do more?
4:58:54The Vietcong, if I can answer it, because I think I don't have much time.
4:58:59The Vietcong, Bob.
4:59:22Vietcong have always been, as the province has done, 200,000 people.
4:59:25They've always been strong.
4:59:27And there is, since the United States, there's been a number of Vietcong mayors.
4:59:31And down in the Delta, there's still pockets of Vietcong.
4:59:34But I think the Admiral would agree that our concern is not the Vietcong.
4:59:38That's our concern, as the regulators, they haven't...
4:59:41So, this is minimal factors.
4:59:57That's correct.
4:59:58I think that's one of the main differences between this activity and that of the city.
5:00:04The city is not generating uprisings in the city, and in addition to that, there are a lot of standards that are good.
5:00:11Many portions of the North Beach are actually manned by South Beach committees.
5:00:18This time, as the president says, it's almost exclusively North Vietnamese, so when they lose a man, they lose a North Vietnamese, not a South Vietnamese, that's there.
5:00:28Is there any disintegration politically in Saigon or otherwise?
5:00:31Were there any major dissident groups who organized to disrupt the government?
5:00:36I'm not asking the military operations.
5:00:41We can take the president and some of the followers of the man they met, you know, it was...
5:00:46I'm there as much as there was in our civil war.
5:00:49Yes.
5:00:49Thank you.
5:01:07Mr. President, you have a problem about negotiations, I'm sure, with the probability that they can't sustain this over a long period of time.
5:01:19They're probably being safe to get too much involved in substantive negotiations.
5:01:24Negotiations, while their offensive was at its peak, they're really looking for a strong position.
5:01:29What I'm saying, I'm just saying, Barbara, is the general rule of warfare, which all of you are aware of, and only negotiating the conference table, which is a different battle than that.
5:01:41Consequently, while we have an American Armed Services and Urban Diversity Act, I think we should assume that as far as hopes for negotiating are concerned, on any basis that would be fair to both sides, particularly to our side, those hopes do not become significant until the battle subsides.
5:02:05Because if the enemy figures that it's going to, say, take away, or something like that, they'll wait until they get back before talking.
5:02:15If, on the other hand, they figure that they're running out of gas, then they'll talk.
5:02:18But at the present time, at the height of a battle, there's never negotiation that succeeds.
5:02:25You recall World War I, World War II, and all of these, the negotiating trend always must be kept open.
5:02:34either privately or publicly, but it never really produces anything until the battle is resolved in such a way, so that one side or the other recognizes that they are better off negotiating the fight, this fight.
5:02:52I believe that, I would say.
5:02:55I mean, we are negotiating.
5:02:57When I say that, it's disgusting.
5:02:59As far as reaching a deal is concerned.
5:03:02As long as a battle is at its height, nobody makes a deal.
5:03:06And that's what we've done now.
5:03:07The battle's still very, very hot.
5:03:08I'd like to have a look at some of those institutes just before they think that we're out.
5:03:13I'm certainly out there watching for that, but I wouldn't anticipate so much.
5:03:18You're doing it here with a fanatical group of people.
5:03:20They've walked for 25 years.
5:03:22And they'll always, and they're always fighting in the hope that the South Vietnamese stuff may collapse, that there may be a South Vietnamese people's uprising, and actually in the hope that they'll get great support from what they thought were their friends in the United States.
5:03:36And I'm sorely disappointed with that today, because there hasn't been, of course, the support for their efforts in this country that there have been in previous states.
5:04:14They find, militarily, they're going to take too much punishment to make a good point.
5:04:20There again, this is one of the reasons why we have to continue hitting them in their heartland.
5:04:28They can't be a great exception.
5:04:31I think yes, we're going to have this pain.
5:04:35That's the end of it.
5:04:39Any guess on time?
5:04:41Well, as the President mentioned, we have a weather factor that will be coming in.
5:04:47It isn't just the weather, but as the Admiral also has said to us, it's a question of how long the defenses will go.
5:04:53Because there are great defenses in World War I and World War II.
5:04:57Four weeks is about a few weeks to be called.
5:05:03Thank you very much.
5:05:17perhaps just to stay three or four weeks.
5:05:19Yes, through May.
5:05:20Through May.
5:05:21First of June, then weather, plus just running out of gas, supplies, and the enormous treatment that brings it in.
5:05:29So, the South Vietnamese have a problem holding on to the gas.
5:05:34The North Vietnamese have a problem winning the border.
5:05:37They don't win, they lose.
5:05:38All the South Vietnamese don't have to lose.
5:05:40They just have to prevent the North Vietnamese from winning.
5:05:44That, of course, is another thing to play at.
5:05:47Well, we must get on with some domestic strategy.
5:06:00I don't know.
5:06:02Thank you very much.
5:06:04Yes, sir.
5:06:04Yes, sir.
5:06:05Yes, sir.
5:06:06Yes, sir.
5:06:06Yes, sir.
5:06:14The Soviet has 11 new types of weapons that they have never used in South Vietnam before.
5:06:21It's pretty formidable.
5:06:22Mr. President, before the Admiral leaves, can I ask one more question?
5:06:26What does the shipping look like in Haiphong and Vien?
5:06:30Are the Soviets rushing in new equipment?
5:06:34It's really at one of its highest levels.
5:06:37You know, I made a 33-step, I believe, at high far ground.
5:06:41The solids have been taking in about 200,000 tons a month.
5:06:45A large part of that during the last three months has been P.O.L., fuel.
5:06:49And this is one of the reasons that we have been attacking the fuel supply, because obviously, due to the fact that using more motorized food has happened,
5:06:59They had to lay down a backlog of fuel, but that's actually quite accurate, it is quite heavy.
5:07:10Thank you.

Nixon, Laird & Moorer on Easter Offensive and Vietnam War

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Also recorded on May 1, 1972

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