Haig, McCloskey & Brower on Arms Limitation Agreement and SALT

0:46I think we did a great performance.
0:51Let me just get down to the list so we can all know who's listening to each other.
0:58State, we have Dave Ashburn, Bob McCluskey, Mark Murray, Bob Martin, Donald Brower, Vance, Brady Johnson, Bernard Tucker, Harry Friedman.
1:11Bernard Tucker.
1:12Bernard Tucker.
1:14Bernard Tucker.
1:15Bernard Tucker.
1:56The purpose of this thing is to try to get some interdepartmental coordination on
2:25Well, if it occurs, it will of course be a very historic and very significant breakthrough on arms limitations.
2:35And like anything of that kind, that significance on that subject is going to have considerable high profile public discussion and some controversy behind the shadow of the bat.
2:55So in certain things, we went out with certain questions to Moscow.
3:01The first part I do want to underline is that this is fairly sensitive and we won't talk about it here, essentially.
3:08In the first instance, because there's no agreement yet, it's conceivable that there wouldn't be one during this trip.
3:18And I'll go back to the drawing points.
3:19It's very conceivable.
3:24On the other hand, if there is an agreement, what will happen is there will be a press briefing in Moscow, and in some detail I'm sure Henry will give.
3:39That is the basic document from which our public stance will be taken, and it will probably ride for a few days quite adequately.
3:51I'm confident it won't last much more than a few days, because a new set of argumentations and questions will arise, as they always do, in 48 or 72 hours.
4:00And then we'll have to be fleshing it out.
4:06In order to get some coordination in this thing, I think it's absolutely essential, and first and foremost, there'll be no special assault briefings,
4:16before the president returns.
4:18That's the position that we've gotten from us.
4:25Whether that will survive all of next week, I have some doubts.
4:30But at least that's our initial marching order.
4:35The second one is that we're going to try to set up a coordinating mechanism for public statements, even if it's Q&As or whatever it may be,
4:47and try to keep some White House participation so that the coordination is done, and not because we want to play the game, or overplay it.
4:57But that's Les Janket, who's on the NSC staff, and some press guy, who work very carefully with the departments and agencies concerned on that issue.
5:14Now, in handling questions, assuming there's an agreement and you have a backgrounder, responses can be limited to the backgrounder, which would be given by the spokesman in Moscow, and we'll have copies distributed around as soon as it's given.
5:34And we want to hold, as I emphasize, comments to an absolute minimum, and let that backgrounder speak for itself, and draw on it, or refer to it.
6:19Now we have the experts in the business as the verification committee working group preparing a rationale paper
6:34at least two forms.
6:35One is the layman's generalist version, a simplified capsule picture, and the other is a more detailed esoteric exposition of the outlines of the agreement, if it comes to pass, from the point of departure which we have right now.
6:54We're trying to get that as soon as we can, and get that to Moscow to get the blessing.
7:00Because we've been told that it will go nowhere until it has been out there, until the president knows what's in it and is happy with it.
7:08So again, I would caution anybody who has papers, and we did some additional work here two days ago, you have those kinds of talking papers and background papers, watch where they are, get them back in under your wings and under your control.
7:22Because I like to tell you, there have been some changes to the view that we have when we go.
7:34What we'll do then is we'll have this kind of a packet put together with a transcript of the briefing in Moscow, two papers assuming they're approved, the generalist view and the more esoteric view.
7:46Now, I would hope that the work in the group is preparing some unclassified statistics which would be tabbed into the rationale paper.
8:00What I'm talking about is balanced figures of
8:04relative strengths in various categories of weapons.
8:08It's pretty well to have already.
8:14It's quite important that we not overlook our overseas part of this problem because it's a very crunchy one.
8:22That means the USIA VOA will have to be guided very strictly by what I've just outlined for our domestic.
8:38There are several possibilities to exploit this agreement as it takes place.
8:48One is, I know Mr. Laird is going to get at the airport Friday when he gets in.
8:53If there's an agreement and it's been announced, he's going to get hit.
8:58So we're going to inquire over there whether we want to take a holding position and refer to the briefing, or go a little beyond it.
9:07Okay.
9:12Jim, we talked about the desirability of having you on some kind of a TV talk show on Sunday.
9:20If there is an agreement and if there's room.
9:24That's often hard to do at this late stage, given the uncertainty of it.
9:29You can do it.
9:30I think it would be desirable if there's an agreement.
9:39Then we have some further possibilities for next week to exploit, which would be Jack Irwin perhaps on today's show on Monday, Admiral Moore perhaps on morning news, CBS on Monday, some canned interviews of some kind that can be put on news shows.
10:03I think it would be best initially...
10:07As we go strong on defense spokesmen for these public presentations, because there's really no security angle, and we are having an unsolved birthright.
10:28Now, it's very important, and I'm hoping it's up to you here, and important that we have no
10:38greetings for outside groups and individuals until the president returns.
10:44We've got explicit directions from Moscow.
10:48I have to notice some people lined up.
10:53It's already 10 a.m. Saturday.
10:54It's already 10 a.m.
10:55It's done, yeah.
10:57But let's hold on that.
10:58It probably won't hold, that victim.
11:00But let's, for now, be very conscious of it.
11:04I think the Department of State has got to put some instructions out initially that they're going to have Canada ready to go to our embassies abroad, especially in Europe, where there will be some consciousness problems.
11:25They'll be guided only by the backgrounds of the press freedom from Moscow.
11:34In terms of friends of the administration...
11:46We can put a pack of material together using the background and the summaries, summaries that are being worked over, assuming those summaries are pretty rational.
11:59And then we don't get them to them.
12:03Anybody that's in that business, I think, should make up a target list of people they want to contact.
12:10Now, at least the department and agency
12:15Usually at decisions, you know, I call them either think tanks or whatever you want to call them, friends or spokesmen, act as, I'm sure that they consider to be the most important.
12:28Defense has a group of people that are important.
12:31State, and I'm not talking legislators, I'm not talking the Congress, we'll talk that later.
12:38But I think we should have those lists prepared.
12:42How can you give them a package of information if you're not free?
12:54What's the difference between providing a package of information?
13:02Yeah, I think we do, except for the press briefing.
13:08It's on the record, it's very simple.
13:12If they do it on a background basis, then it's more complex.
13:17We're going to have to do some kind of a summary from that briefing.
13:24Which is comfortable enough, comfortable with it, and I don't have the resources to get what we need.
13:30We'll have to stay a little bit loose on that.
13:32The only way we'll stay the whole time.
13:35With this same package of information, it's essentially what you can read to the national organizations.
13:42Right.
13:42If you can't have a package, why not read it through it?
13:48That's right.
13:53This is a calculation.
14:20We'll have another meeting here tomorrow.
14:22By then we'll know whether we've got a problem or not.
14:27If we do, it'll be an urgent meeting early in the morning to get all the things we're talking about now finally done and shaped and coordinate last-minute modifications to what we're putting out today.
14:41But in the meantime, I say overnight, everybody ought to prepare their target list of organizations and outside supporters
14:48I think it's advanced to state and act to do that.
14:54That's enough.
14:55And then the White House ought to do it first.
15:01Especially for the truck.
15:03It's already based on the words.
15:16The one thing I just want to emphasize again is that anything that's done by way of printed material, written material, or data, has got to be clear, and I'm going to make that so clear to see tomorrow.
15:29I think we have to do that practice anyhow, because it's very green that's going on in the context of negotiations.
15:38You said before you wanted to listen tonight, tomorrow morning.
15:43No, I have it for tomorrow morning when we meet again.
16:15I can't give you an answer.
16:19There's just no way of knowing.
16:21In other words, it won't be by...
16:26It's conceivable that it wouldn't happen until Monday, or happen on Sunday, or on Saturday.
16:33It's conceivable.
16:34It's conceivable it won't happen at all.
16:38A couple of hard ducks to work out on this one.
16:42Yeah.
16:46And on that point of page 2, item 6, act as a responsibility, every member refers to every member of the Congress.
16:53Active will have responsibility for ensuring that every member receives a copy of the Senate for every member of the Congress.
17:01Item 6 on page 2 of part 2 of the legal agenda for this session.
17:06Active will have responsibility for ensuring that every member receives a copy of the presidential statement in Moscow background.
17:17Does the member refer to every member of Congress?
17:21Oh, that's weird.
17:22I haven't gotten to that yet.
17:24Excuse me.
17:26There you go.
17:27I'll have those questions.
17:30I always end with John's talkers.
17:36That's the public affairs side generally now.
17:39I think we'll open up the discussion on the public affairs side.
17:43Any questions or any ideas that somebody has to make this more effective that we haven't talked about?
17:49And who's the USID person?
17:54Does everyone feel comfortable?
17:57If they know what direction we're going in, how we're going to coordinate it?
18:03The Washington-based press, they can expect to receive a press release and the text of the agreement, plus the rationale of Baker.
18:16Roughly what time is it?
18:21I can't guess.
18:23I can't say.
18:24What time is it for the people of Moscow?
18:30No, what would happen is, if they'll do it in Moscow, they'll flash us the transcript of the briefing, which will lag the fact by probably three hours.
18:40I'm saying in the text of the agreements.
18:42In the text of the agreements?
18:44Yeah.
18:44I can't say.
18:46I would say they also will probably lag in arriving here.
18:52They're way ahead of us in any event, you know, seven hours ahead.
18:55So they start out behind the power curve.
18:59And that gives them wisdom to just say, well, we're in Moscow, but where do we get the word?
19:07Now, you ask how comfortable we are with public affairs aspects.
19:13I'm very uncomfortable with it.
19:15You're telling the DFW and Colson's little group, before you're telling the leadership of the United States Senate, that you've got to pass it, you've got to do it.
19:26You've got to do it.
19:29What we're telling is what they say in Moscow is public.
19:35What I'm just trying to say is we won't say anything to anybody.
19:38We've been told not to.
19:41That's the initial ground rule.
19:42There won't be any briefings.
19:45Well, then there ought to be a sock or a hole on the other side.
19:49You have to tell the public before you tell Mansfield's side.
19:55Now, and Stennis and Margaret...
19:58Now this has not yet been addressed to the legislative side, and we will very shortly.
20:04We're about to get into that.
20:06I don't see any problem or any conflict yet.
20:11We'll just wait until we get it to the legislative side.
20:14General, any prediction at all on when the two rationales in the verification committee might be available before the stuff from Moscow for study, for private study?
20:29I seriously doubt it.
20:32I don't know.
20:34You all have to keep in mind that the thing is still dynamic there.
20:43Even what they're writing here today may not be right, and then you have to send it, and they're working all night long.
20:56I just think we're going to have to take a little bit of heat.
20:58You know, on the congressional side, I'm less worried, in some instances, because most of them won't be here.
21:06That doesn't solve your problem.
21:07But also remember, they've been briefed as we go along on this thing.
21:12This is our versions on this all the time, and as they let on like they are.
21:17Am I right?
21:20They've been briefed 30 times.
21:22Has Matthew Scott and Gertrude been briefed?
21:27No, they've not been solving the four-needle.
21:30They had a briefing.
21:31They had a briefing.
21:32They had a briefing right in here from the president of the United States on this subject.
21:37He made frankly a reference to solve this before he left for the Senate.
21:42But Tiny Tom's point is that that notwithstanding, it's certain regardless of where they are in the country, I think that can be gotten to.
21:51That's right.
21:51Yeah, well, now the president can return to Obama.
21:54I'm going to tell you exactly how they want this done.
21:57Yeah.
21:58for specific instructions from Moscow.
22:00I'm going to tell you that right now.
22:03So I think it will answer your question.
22:05If it doesn't, then we have to go back to the president.
22:11That's the only answer.
22:12Alan, may I ask you one question?
22:13Yes.
22:15If I understand what you're saying, the only thing we're going to have, on the public affairs part, is that it will have been signed, and there will be pictures of the signing ceremony, and there will have been a background picture held by Henry.
22:26That's right.
22:27There will be no press briefings?
22:29Nothing else.
22:30There will be no statement by the president?
22:32Well, we don't know.
22:33There may be.
22:34No message from the president to the American people?
22:36There may be.
22:38There may be.
22:41That may happen.
22:44And again, I doubt that it will.
22:45You know, I'm just giving my own press judgment.
22:48I think they'll have an agreement in text and a briefing.
22:52And a few brief reports by people who are commenting on the agreement.
22:58And that will be it.
23:01Perhaps an unwelcome comment.
23:04I think the additional impact on this is going to be absolutely critical.
23:08And if...
23:10If the president, if the dignity of his position in some sort of message will be brought to people with some device, either exclusively with three senior nets or something, doesn't blanket the time, I can't conceive of how it will be presented except that there will be pictures of the ceremony.
23:26Some references to a background that won't be attributable, and then a lot of pictures of the opposition saying what they think about it.
23:33And your first thing back to a large part of the public is going to be Senator Jackson, Senator Newelwater, and other people saying what's wrong with Pete Greenwald, and then you put it earlier how the National Court of Rights was sold out in Moscow.
23:45That would be a disaster.
23:47On the other hand, if the president did lend himself through some device to a message to the American people on this historic initiative for peace,
23:55Apparently it was a 30-minute time lag.
23:58We blanketed the tube.
24:00Between the pictures and the coverage of the ceremony and the president's time with their TV stars, we've got the tube blanketed and the first impact on the public mind is ours.
24:12Well, I think you made a hell of a good point.
24:15I wouldn't contest it.
24:20I wouldn't contest it on the other hand.
24:22I understand you propel a man when there's a need.
24:28Yes.
24:29I can't reconcile the fact that we're excluded from a domestic press briefing that we're throwing at guys on television and on the media, which is the equivalent of a press briefing.
24:40I mean, how can you not have a specific briefing to say on Saturday, again, you have somebody on the same talk show, and two people on the Monday talk show?
24:49You're doing, you're doing, in fact, the same thing.
24:52That's right.
24:53But what you're doing is, you're letting the briefing in Moscow be the sole source of the main ride.
25:02Now, that may or may not be good enough, but by Sunday, you have several key administration officials using the rationale which has been cleared, and the ability to test their own
25:20Assessments against the fact that there are no press releases.
25:28And then they add more.
25:29The one thing to remember is that we've got a massive press corps sitting in Moscow right now, and the main leads are all going to come out of there, just like they had been on these other agreements.
25:40I told you at the outset, I ain't very comfortable with holding for a week without any press talk yet.
25:49I don't think it will survive, but that was the initial directive we got, and we're just going to have to stay a little bit loose until we go back and say if you really need us, which we'll do, and until you have a 24-hour period.
26:03You certainly will survive for 24 hours.
26:04No doubt about that, but I agree with you.
26:05I think you're exactly right.
26:12And I agree with you.
26:13It would be very helpful to have a good, strong presidential statement that we can help to carry for a period.
26:18Just to give you an argument.
26:19There are a lot of newsmen, an argument to use, I mean, an argument to use.
26:24There are a lot of newsmen in Moscow.
26:25It's his crew.
26:25There are a hell of a lot of newsmen in this country.
26:28This is going to be one hell of a big story.
26:30And they're not all going to sit on their hands until they come to tell you they're in Moscow.
26:33And if we don't blanket it with our story, do you know where they're going to get their story?
26:38There's only going to be reactions.
26:39There's only going to be one source.
26:41That's operated.
26:42And so they're going to have a story from Moscow, and then they're going to have a story from the state of Washington, and a story from the state of Arizona, etc.
26:49That's where they'll go, but there won't be anywhere else to go to.
26:51All anybody will do here is stay with a briefing in Moscow.
26:55So your initial impact is going to give the maximum possible coverage to the opposition.
27:00That's a point in a lot of words sharing that, as I see it now.
27:05It's not my vision anymore, I'll get out of it.
27:09Well, I think we've all expressed our concerns.
27:15Now, let's turn to congressional affairs, because this is where the platforms you're concerned about is held on, and this is the real...
27:24touch the problem of the whole show.
27:27And it's in an ordinary position, and here again, on the public affairs side, it's essential that all legislative contacts be coordinated and centrally controlled with Dr. Greger, because otherwise you've got a disaster, you've got a double kill, a triple kill,
27:48Again, all breathings and activities on the hill will be coordinated and clear here to ensure that everybody is covered and recovered in a consistent way.
28:14It's the wrong way.
28:16Now, these briefing papers, these rationale papers we're talking about, should provide a basis for this.
28:25They'll need some twists depending on the target that we all have to do.
28:33We have this Dan Blake group that some of you participate in, and we'd like to just stay on top of this thing
28:43Gregor, right?
28:45Try to perhaps state the date of tomorrow, I haven't seen you.
28:47That is the same room.
28:4911.30, I think, tomorrow night.
28:50So I have essentially the same number of memberships as well.
29:00Now, what happens is, we have been told from Moscow that there will be no congressional briefings or consultations until Tuesday of next week.
29:13That happens to be what we've been told.
29:18Now, the only way around that is to make some telephone calls to keep people so that they know that they're going to get free.
29:32And by whom?
29:33Now, that's the way I think you have to handle your leadership.
29:36Like, I don't know how else to handle it with the mandate we've got.
29:41Uh...
29:43You know, this is totally unacceptable, and I think we have to go back.
29:47I don't want to factor them back there now about problems that may not exist.
29:51We're pressing under the pressure now.
29:54But as soon as we know there's an agreement, I would suggest we go back and say, look, start with the four leaders that got there.
30:01They have a little special treatment.
30:02You've got no problem in the house, thank you.
30:07It would be great to have...
30:09affirmative, informed, supportive comment from senior senators and leadership types as soon after the entry into an agreement or publication in Moscow of the fact of the agreement as could be obtained.
30:33That would tend not to eliminate
30:36But rather diminish the impact of the Jacksons, the Goldwaters, and anybody else who are wholly negative.
30:44You can get Mansfield Scott, full right to sentence, to say, hooray, this is great.
30:54That would be a big, big blow.
30:58So that's the problems I see.
31:01Well, let me make a task for you, if you're comfortable with it, just to get launched today.
31:07I think if everybody comes tomorrow morning, state defense and state of the act to coordinate on their target list, but make a target list of who you feel you'll want to get to on Tuesday for the formal coordination
31:32And then if your son, if you feel, must be at least telephoned tomorrow, yes, or wherever they may, and that may be at their home in Hoboken or wherever they are, make that a list.
31:46So a surgeon must call that surgeon briefly.
31:52Does that, will that help you tomorrow to at least get an idea of what happens with the coverage, yes?
31:59And keep in mind that I'm not at all remiss to have gone back to Moscow when we know we're over the substantive problems, and then harassing them on this subject in a very serious and important way.
32:13I don't think we could also do that if it wasn't for our colleagues here.
32:18I think there's one thing to keep in mind about the presence that you hear.
32:46He intends to have a leadership meeting the day he gets back, or the next day, or June 2nd.
32:50What I think he wants to do, he's very much the guy that talks about what's been done and what's been accomplished.
33:00That's awfully hard to do if you get too many detailed readings.
33:04Yeah, I'm not suggesting detailed readings.
33:06I'm suggesting about four points that they might select to say...
33:11why they support this.
33:13There will be plenty left for the president to tell us in terms of the detail workup, and they'll just be so eager to hear from the president about this that we wouldn't be stealing any thunder from them, but we wouldn't be getting over this.
33:27I think it would be helpful to have us see what the acting teams put together.
33:31You have four or five points to Henry to dictate over the public.
33:35I'm sure one or more of these will appeal to you.
33:39We'd appreciate it if you could incorporate it into your supporting statement.
33:43We'll do that in our place.
33:45We'll have those, assuming it all takes place, we'll have a few actions.
33:50When we have those soon after we have the fact that an agreement and a
34:03the transcript of the text of the telephone call, and then what they're going to take from the briefings.
34:08But you know the basic point, Sam?
34:10We know, we know.
34:10We could get some of the stuff down to be useful to have ready to use.
34:17That's essentially the simple thing that you're talking about.
34:22That's what I'm saying, but these, you know, I think one guy wants to hit one thing, one guy wants to hit another.
34:27So we have a little variety in what our supporters are saying.
34:31All going to be the way we hold them.
34:37We could do that.
34:37Actually, we could do that.
34:38We could shut this down for a minute and have a look at what's going on.
34:47Okay, now, here's a problem with legislative people.
34:50We don't have an answer yet on when we're going to send the final text of this agreement to the Hill.
34:57You know we have a treaty and an executive agreement involved.
35:04And the ADM tree will be information only to the house.
35:11Accompanied by a request for an endorsement from the executive agreement by a joint resolution.
35:19Executive agreement handling the offensive weapons side.
35:26I think we ought to get some thought to this on how we're going to manage that kind of approach.
35:33To get a resolution to support the ABM treaty, that's the House problem.
35:40The response should be...
35:41I think the House really should start to be talkative.
35:50They have had you through.
35:53So, I mean, it's going to be their job, and we know better than I do how to handle that.
35:59The resolution supporting the treaty.
36:04Wait a minute, you talked about the thing.
36:08The treaty, which is securely centered.
36:11That's securely centered.
36:15And then we want to have a request for an endorsement of the executive agreement by a joint resolution.
36:23Approval is the word that's used every time under the act of legislation.
36:32Now we would like to have, in addition to the joint resolution approving the executive agreement, it would be very nice to have a house resolution supporting the ABM treaty.
36:46But that's why I say you're going to want to talk over with the house leadership and see whether they think they can deliver and whether it's the best thing to do.
36:58Is there any precedent for that?
37:00Well, it comes under the same amendment, Mr. Mayor.
37:04It would probably be fine if the states are accepted.
37:07It's an approval by both of, by the Congress, which makes this a full house, of any agreement, limiting or reducing.
37:16Pardon?
37:17Well, but excluding treaties.
37:18Yes, well, this is a...
37:19It's put the other way around.
37:20It says that if you enter an agreement of limiting arms, it must be approved, either by treaty or by affirmative legislative action.
37:28The Congress.
37:29And the resolution was custom.
37:32So the last part of the resolution is just one that you're saying something.
37:35That's right.
37:36Something we need to have.
37:37We need to have.
37:40Most of them are gifts.
37:43What's that on it?
37:45That's my freedom.
37:46Look at this here.
37:47What is it?
37:48I think it's one of those weather things.
37:50I think it's here.
37:53It says freedom.
37:55Freedom?
37:58You're supposed to put all the shit in the water.
38:07Can I come in here?
38:09Eh?
38:33One of these closets.
38:34That closet here is a projection booth.
38:35You can open that door and project.
38:36There's a projector.
38:38Projectors set up in it.
38:39A man comes in from the other side and projects out of the screen they set up here.
38:46All the units you see on the ceiling up there.
38:47Maybe you've seen some of those, Larry.
38:48These brown things right above your head.
38:50No.
38:51Fire detectors.
38:51Pyro alarms.
38:53Pyrotronics.
38:54Yeah, I've heard of fire detectors.
38:56They're extremely sensitive.
38:58But you need smoke or fire to have them set it off.
39:04They're all over this room here.
39:06And when that unit goes off, when that unit set off the fire alarm, the little neon light light makes sure it would light up.
39:13None of the other ones would light up.
39:14You get a fire alarm again, and you come in here, you see where it was, and you know, of course, in here, you know where it was.
39:20But say in a large area, where it's all under one circuit, one great big room in a warehouse, you get a fire, it says, it says a north building...
39:28You go out and run around the building, and you just start looking, and you can see one of the, what do you see?
39:32That little neon light glowing, or one of them.
39:34You know the fire is in that little area.
39:35Oh, yeah.
39:36That thing's extremely sensitive.
39:38If you lit a sunbeam torch in here, that thing would go off.
39:40It didn't unhand at times.
39:44They didn't.
39:46It just didn't work.
39:47Come on, last year.
39:48But this crawl space is all through this place.
39:51You can crawl over any place in this building.
39:54Come through different trap doors and get up in it.
39:56Anywhere you see one, you can crawl through and put your wiring in.
39:59Can I go down this way?
40:00All the way?
40:01All the way around there.
40:08It's a lot of work.
40:10One electrician will take care of that tonight when he comes in.
40:15One electrician's duty is first thing in the morning to check all lights and make sure that everything is ready to go.
40:29Make sure that everything is ready.
40:31That's a pretty thing, isn't it?
40:33You have to go around and scrub that crystal.
40:37And wash that crystal with only water.
40:44No, the guy sits up in a little rag and very full of the top of the waist, all the way down.
40:49He goes around that thing, it takes him a half an hour, an hour.
40:52They steal him from those great big gigantic...
40:55It's huge.
40:56The guy sits up there and he washes it down the thing.
40:59It takes hours of a scaffolding.
41:01And they tell him to leave it there.
41:03Oh, they don't tell him to leave it there.
41:06I don't know how they do it now.
41:07I don't know how they do it now.

Haig, McCloskey & Brower on Arms Limitation Agreement and SALT

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 30, 1972

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