Nixon, Landrieu & Massell on Revenue sharing and New Federalism

55:04Thank you very much.
55:24My purpose today is to
55:35for the various groups that are here to get your views on anything that we here at White House want to know in regard to the role of work by the economy, and also to indicate to you the strategy that I think we should follow in order to win this vote.
56:03In speaking to the governors two weeks ago, or about ten weeks ago, there's about 20 of them over here that's speaking in behalf of the rest of the sheriff.
56:15I found that there was, as you might expect, a considerable amount of disagreement among governors as not to the goal of revenue sharing, but how the breakdown between the cities and the upstate or downstate, as the case might be, or outstate areas or rural areas, and what the formula should be and so forth.
56:40The tax...
56:42I emphasize this point.
56:44I only say this because I know that within this group there's probably very honest disagreement as to whether this formula
57:08It is not before the Senate.
57:10The one that the House has approved is just the right one.
57:14You should state your views because we should know.
57:17I would just like to say one thing, that as we come down to the time when the Senate may consider this, and may vote it up or down, and it will certainly vote it up in some form, we have to remember it has to go to a conference with the House.
57:31You have to remember that if it is in the Senate, if the Senate does not have the rule which remains, you know, the House amendments, and it's a lot of estranged amendments, or twisted out of shape in such a way that it's too far away from the House version, then we're hung up again.
57:50So what we have to do, I'm not saying we have to take the House bill as it is.
57:53The Senate can be a House bill.
57:56It will.
57:56It recognizes its priorities.
57:59On the other hand, if we present too much of a divided...
58:07council as we go before the Senate, I think it could in the end abstain the whole bill.
58:14So what I am suggesting is that as your presentations start, here you should make your presentations, just what you think about it, so that we can take into consideration and do what we can to work with the managers of the Senate and the conference committee on getting their views reflected.
58:32On the other hand, in appearing before the committee, the main thing is to remember the main object, and that is to get it.
58:38Now, I would like to say one other thing.
58:41We got it in the house.
58:43We didn't get it past the house.
58:45Some of the votes we got were one-time votes.
58:48We got them now, and we may not get them again.
58:50So my point is, with this bolster of insurance, we would like to get it before the Republican convention.
58:57I think if you would wait until after the convention, the kind of session that comes then, they're likely to get my left hand used to basically a lot of political matters that they may think are more important than this.
59:10And when you have something rolling in any legislative body, you know, the only thing you can do is to push.
59:16You're down there in the five-yard line, right across there, because you may not get it on there again.
59:23So, I think the time is of the essence.
59:26We'd like to get a vote in the Senate.
59:29We'd like to get it before, in the next four weeks, before the election.
59:34Thank you.
59:35I would urge the senators respectfully not to hang extraneous matters on it, because extraneous things related to the revenue sharing are very, very distant related to if it will have profits.
59:52in the context of problems of getting approval by the House, which will have to approve the contract.
1:00:02And the final thing is that we should remember that we've come an awful long way since 1969.
1:00:10We have no action in 69, no action in 70.
1:00:15All year in 71, as a matter of fact, I've met now in one way or another, at least they've all invited every member of the House Republican Democrat, every member of the Senate Republican Democrat, a number of mayors, representatives of mayors, county officers, a number of state legislators, a number of governors, all on a bipartisan basis.
1:00:39There has been sometimes a tendency to look upon government sharing as being an administration proposal, and in the last few years it will be an administration paper.
1:00:53I think we should just get that view right off our heads.
1:00:57We realize that, for example, a majority of the senators and house members are Democrats.
1:01:02A majority of the mayors are Democrats.
1:01:06A majority of the governors are Democrats.
1:01:11The majority of the county officers are Democrats, and we could not pass it without Democratic support.
1:01:16We kept this on a bipartisan basis all the way, and when this victory is won, it's going to be a bipartisan victory.
1:01:23And many more than that, it's really going to be a victory to believe for a historic attorney government.
1:01:31Where global government, state government, gets funds without strings, and I should emphasize some of that point comes up.
1:01:40I'd be sure to fight right down to the line any attempt to put strings on this.
1:01:45Because if you start going down the line and putting string lines on it, it isn't going to be really representative sharing at all.
1:01:50It will be the same whole business.
1:01:52You're going hand in hand to Washington, having to meet certain conditions, and you're not having the funds in a way for you to determine at your own levels, but how they best need to be used.
1:02:02So, we've come this far, and now we need to make sure that this body of people here can always represent those of others, and others who are across
1:02:14That's somewhat of our own thinking here.
1:02:17We'd like to hear now from the representatives of the powerful lobby movement.
1:02:24I say this, as I said to the governors, but I would say it perhaps even more to you, because I think you put more heat, if anything, more heat on, if anything, because we're more hungry on the Congress than on the governors.
1:02:38If it had not been for what the Congress has been hearing from mayors and from county offices and from the revenue sharing, you know, to...
1:02:47And it's because you put the heat on that it's there.
1:02:51That's the way they carry it.
1:02:52I mean, it's threatening sharing itself with Poland.
1:02:54If you get it across the country, you'll find that most people support it.
1:02:58But it isn't a gut issue.
1:02:59It doesn't excite people.
1:03:00It isn't something that's going to defeat a congressman or elect him.
1:03:04And so there are many other things that would come ahead of it.
1:03:07On the other hand, there's mayors...
1:03:10and his county officers, and his state legislators.
1:03:14He's likely to do it just to get rid of you.
1:03:18There's not a thing you're going to be down there every day.
1:03:23We'll give you the first check, the first shot.
1:03:26Thank you, Mr. President.
1:03:28I think you've been peeping when you said that you would do that in order to get rid of me.
1:03:33I think he would.
1:03:34I'm wondering if you're sharing some of your facts.
1:03:38I recall listening to a radio broadcast and hearing someone talk about what should be done in terms of financing needs in local communities, and I thought, this fellow is for me.
1:03:50I listened carefully to find out who it was, and it turned out to be Richard Nichols.
1:03:55So the idea then was one that I thought was absolutely necessary, and of course today we're in a real trouble that we're in, it's even more necessary.
1:04:07And I agree with you, it had to be done on a bipartisan basis.
1:04:10But when I said this in the radio broadcast this morning, I heard, incidentally, may I tell the gentleman here that there's been a change in our status.
1:04:21I heard on the radio that
1:04:24I was having breakfast with the president.
1:04:26And that I am the president... You didn't have to make a liar out of me.
1:04:31And I also heard that I am...
1:04:33I also heard that I am president of the National Association of Counties and Mayors.
1:04:41I don't care about that fella.
1:04:49I don't care.
1:04:52But, yes, it did take a bipartisan effort, but I do want to thank you for the effort that you've made, and for the marvelous work that our Vice President has done in helping bring this about.
1:05:08You don't really have to bring roles.
1:05:12And he certainly has.
1:05:14That's that part of him.
1:05:15I get his responsibility.
1:05:18And sometimes...
1:05:24I sent a letter to the editor, as he knows,
1:05:47The Baltimore Sun said the president and the vice president didn't really care about revenue sharing.
1:05:55And I sent a letter to the editor, and I've been pounding on them ever since.
1:05:58You've got a lot of interest in the Baltimore Sun.
1:06:00Oh, yes.
1:06:01I thought there was something about it.
1:06:04But...
1:06:06My own feeling, I'm an optimist.
1:06:11I'm the world's greatest optimist, but I'm a practical one.
1:06:17And I think, as you do, that if we start looking for changes today, we're liable to end up losing the package.
1:06:27And my own feeling, and I'm sure that I'm speaking for the counties, is that there are other things that we'd like to see in this and that would be helpful.
1:06:36But we'd rather at this point take the package as it stands today and be sure that we get it.
1:06:42As time goes on, there's always room for amendment.
1:06:46As far as strings are concerned, you know, there are times when I answer to the name Judy.
1:06:52I think we're all like puppets punching Judy.
1:06:55We just must not have strings.
1:06:59And as we have told some of our friends in the house and in the social categories,
1:07:10We are suffering from hardening of the categories, and we just really shouldn't be going down that route anymore.
1:07:19So I would fully agree with you, Mr. President.
1:07:23Although it isn't perfect, I would prefer that we just take the fact as it stands, and that we put our efforts in that direction.
1:07:34Mr. President, as President of the United States, let me express our appreciation for your leadership in this program.
1:07:42Let me report that, actually, unlike the governors, we probably are pretty much in agreement about certain amendments that we think would be appropriate.
1:07:53However, we are not planning to propose them.
1:07:55In fact, we have agreed not to propose any amendments to the strategy you suggested.
1:08:02You can always remember that it curbs, and let me say I would not presume to suggest that people should not indicate what effect it should have.
1:08:29We've considered that, and we've checked the tactics.
1:08:33But you must remember that if we get the foot in the door, we get this first one, and if we go along, there will be changes in the alterations.
1:08:47It's not going to be perfect.
1:08:48Some people say, well, look, the cities are getting bad.
1:08:52Some cities or some country areas are this far from as bad.
1:08:56This state is getting too much.
1:08:59tax secretaries, they know there's quite a lot of controversy about that, but it can be changed.
1:09:05One thing that can't be changed, if you don't get it now, you may have a very great difficulty in getting it.
1:09:12Just forget it for this year.
1:09:14I know a lot of people already spent money this year.
1:09:16Look at, we're ready to send out the checks.
1:09:19In fact, I understand that you've got them already signed, Charlie, but we're working on this.
1:09:24Laughter
1:09:2738,000.
1:09:2738,000 checks are ready to go.
1:09:30We are all ready.
1:09:31Mr. President, how do we go to the U.S. Congress?
1:09:44The U.S. Congress is the mayors.
1:09:46A few minutes ago, the governors and the mayors had a number of bills to be done.
1:09:52We understand that.
1:09:54Also, the White House had done its work, and the armistice that goes through the House, would already have been adapted, right?
1:10:05I think there's not a man among the mayors, or a lady among the mayors.
1:10:10Now that I'm president of the Mayors Association.
1:10:12We have a number of lady mayors, but I think all of us would prefer the administration's original bill, which had no categories.
1:10:22Let it open to each governing body to make its decision on local priorities and be actionable to local electorates in the event that they didn't properly follow the priorities that were number most in the minds of the electorates.
1:10:36We have a bill.
1:10:38If it's changed, we'd like to have a part in assisting in determining those technical changes to make it a better bill.
1:10:47We're not here as advocates of change.
1:10:50If the bill is opened up, it can be approved, and one of the ways it can be approved is to go back as closely as possible to the intended original bill, and say that if it is unarmored, it may be spent for any local property.
1:11:05If they want to exclude certain things, it would be better than trying to enumerate those which are high priority.
1:11:32I'd rather they give us ten more priorities than to try to give us four or five high priorities.
1:11:38But nonetheless, we look forward to that.
1:11:43If it is changed, we'd like to go back to that.
1:11:45We appreciate it so very much.
1:11:47It's just that you, your staff, the Vice President, his staff, have given us in bringing the bill to this point, and particularly...
1:11:56I think that they have been chosen at random, these mayors have, for example.
1:12:24This election has been made.
1:12:26Governor, pardon me, now Senator Fanning is on the committee, and John Griggs at Randall.
1:12:32It's been so long, he's chairman of the committee, that Randall Moonlandro has been chosen.
1:12:41Mayor of Salt Lake City this year just at Randall with Senator Bennett.
1:12:46Thank you.
1:12:48I don't have anybody on the committee but I'm here just more or less as a moderator for the first few minutes.
1:13:02We are grateful to you for all your advice and I too express that
1:13:13and that we should fight in every way possible to avoid extremism.
1:13:21...legislation tying it in to Fort Barrett Farm or anything else.
1:13:26It might delay it and get it bogged down, and Fort Barrett cannot pass this thing.
1:13:30And then if you could emphasize, Meredith, this thing.
1:13:35Now, whatever happens, let's move on this thing and not move around and delay and so forth.
1:13:40Delay is going to kill it.
1:13:42Debate will kill it.
1:13:43I might just...
1:13:45know what'll happen here, because as you get along, see, if you come down to probably the Republican Convention around the 18th of August, all right, if you haven't got enough of that, then they're back clear after Labor Day.
1:14:02That's about the board.
1:14:04So we've got to quit, you know, sometime before the first of October, around that, in about three weeks.
1:14:11You can imagine what's going to be up there at that point.
1:14:14So if you can push it down, it could be very, very long.
1:14:19This is our purpose in being here, and each of us is going to do all that we can to make sure that this bipartisan effort of yours is a success.
1:14:31Mr. President, Mr. John Conner has the National Legislative Conference.
1:14:35There's no legislative attitude that says a half a loaf is better than none.
1:14:39Looks like today a half a loaf is better than none.
1:14:43So, where many of us differ upon the wording of this bill, there's never been an issue that joined together state legislators, and there are Republican state legislators, there's never been an issue that has brought us together
1:15:00working together through the whole lifetime of this bill.
1:15:04There will be a group of state legislators there to testify today as they get in the House and work with the various committee staff trying to hammer out a bill.
1:15:14We wish that state legislators have been more responsible in supporting your program through federalism, such as no-golf insurance,
1:15:23Maybe legislators can't do all that's right in one year, but we appreciate the part that we've had to play.
1:15:30We appreciate your help, the Vice President's help, in giving us the direction to go.
1:15:37I'm hoping that we can add pressure, knocking on the doors, and we'll be notifying our 7,716 legislators to be doing that at our conference next week in New Orleans.
1:15:48where we are looking for a nice conference, and I hope that we'll receive a greeting from you.
1:15:55You mean in New Orleans?
1:15:56New Orleans, next week, International Western Conference.
1:16:02We'll must have you on that, and invite you to join us next June in San Francisco.
1:16:08We'll do that now, without reservation.
1:16:11They're both mine, Cindy.
1:16:15Not to be outdone, Mr. President.
1:16:17We'll invite you to come at any time you need it, and we'll have our meeting.
1:16:24Tell us where, and that's where we'll meet.
1:16:28Mr. President, how much trouble would you say retroactivity is in?
1:16:32Would we stand a good chance of getting retroactivity because it's real bad trouble?
1:16:38Charlie, what's your judgment on that?
1:16:40Charlie Walker, he's been living, I was going to say sleeping with those people.
1:16:45He's a very good politician in addition to an expert on the Treasury.
1:16:51Charlie, what's your judgment on that?
1:16:55There's very wide support in Congress for retroactivity.
1:16:58The vote to kill it and waste it in this session was swamped.
1:17:01So I would thank you and hope with your help.
1:17:07With your help, we can hold it in the Senate, and I think you might also get those straight.
1:17:12Mr. President, I think we think you're one of us in this business.
1:17:18This is the heart of our thing, and I know you've been talking about federalism and so forth, and the willingness to delegate to us responsibilities.
1:17:28of running our governments, even state, county at some point, is really the heart of what we think.
1:17:34And we think that the only real solution to this complicated structure in this country is to really give us the revenue which we can't derive from ourselves, and allow us to set our priorities.
1:17:46And your leadership in this, as a sort of fairly lone Republican on the State Action Committee after we lost John Lindsay,
1:17:58John here, he's still a coroner, isn't he?
1:18:01Oh yeah, absolutely.
1:18:02Joe is bipartisan.
1:18:04We really do share, we've really been together.
1:18:10And with the Democratic leadership, if you could watch Moon pound away at Airbogs and those guys, they really are important.
1:18:19But without your Ostegosh commitment, it really wouldn't work.
1:18:25I think we could really, we say that normally to ourselves, but we say that to the country, because we think we're at the heart of the issue.
1:18:34We appreciate it.
1:18:35Let me say, we have put this ahead of a lot of other things.
1:18:40Just for the reason that, as I say, recognizing the realities, it doesn't have a political point.
1:18:47Just because it's so complicated, and people who are in government understand it, even if we've seen the benefits of government, or it's that people don't understand it.
1:18:56Nevertheless, we know that for the future of the country, the future of people, this is going to be a good thing.
1:19:04But we've got to do it.
1:19:07If we can just... We should also point out that...
1:19:13The historic nature of it, if this were a one-shot deal, like a disaster relief, that would be one.
1:19:19When we think of the fact that this is just the beginning, and then it goes up, and it's a, you know, it's a part of us, and we're adopted.
1:19:29over periods of years, and the whole new, basically, we may use that term, it's a whole revolutionary new concept relationship between global government and federal government is developed.
1:19:45And a new concept is developed whereby the funds that you so desperately need and find so hard to get can be found at the national level where we've got
1:19:57More stroke at bracing taxes than at the present time.
1:20:01So what we don't need to make exactly the preaching required is to tell you all these things.
1:20:05But what about, let me just tell you how important our friends from Louisiana are.
1:20:12I don't mean the town of Great Texas or the United States, but what do you think of the power that's there?
1:20:17You have Allen Ellender, who's the chairman of Appropriations and Senate.
1:20:20You have Russell Long, who's chairman of the Finance Committee.
1:20:24You have Neil Boggs, who is the Democratic leader in the House, or either.
1:20:30And it's quite a powerful group.
1:20:33I would say, yes, that without the support of Louisiana powerhouses, we wouldn't have a chance.
1:20:43So, Mayor, you're going to deliver all of Louisiana, of course, without strains.
1:20:51President Appleson is going to help you with this welfare bill.
1:20:57I think that...
1:20:59I'm optimistic about it.
1:21:12We'll go get my best today as we have for each of the other committees.
1:21:18He has a slight idea, as you know, Mayor, about a few strings.
1:21:23I would hope that...
1:21:27Well, I can hope that could be discouraged.
1:21:29Every elected president responds to what he knows.
1:21:33Senator Mahomes has to cue you.
1:21:35Things which he responds to in Louisiana, that are very, very safe, property tax and choice, he has to react to that.
1:21:43He has to respond to that.
1:21:46He has to respond to that.
1:21:54...his horse there, and she's very enthusiastic about it.
1:21:57One thing about him, too, is that some of these, I mean, those of you that don't know him, that in terms of just basic intelligence, there probably isn't a man in the Senate that is, you know, that surpasses him in quickness.
1:22:17And still, while she was in beauty, he was a real goer, and...
1:22:21If I talk with other people, they won't know what he's saying.
1:22:25We'll do well.
1:22:26Mr. President, can we have an assessment from you and Mr. Walker about the question of need?
1:22:33We know it's desperate today.
1:22:36Is the Senate sold on the need?
1:22:40Excuse me.
1:22:40Is the Senate sold on the need, as far as the need is concerned?
1:22:44We experienced, for example, before the House of Representatives,
1:22:48until we testified and indicated the circumstances in our various cities
1:22:53That message got through.
1:22:54Is that kind of sale necessary in the Senate?
1:22:59Well, let me try to answer from my own knowledge of the Senate.
1:23:06The answer is it shouldn't be necessary.
1:23:10But in terms of the point that I have made, the urgency of action now always hit the knee.
1:23:19I don't know if you're desperate.
1:23:20I would say it's a problem.
1:23:22It's true.
1:23:22It's true.
1:23:23I don't know.
1:23:33The budget for this is really a crisis of enormous proportions that if you go back, I mean, if we don't get action this year, it's going to cause very serious upheavals and crises and so forth and so on.
1:23:47And if you just can't, it's a desperate need.
1:23:50And we need it now.
1:23:51We can't wait.
1:23:52No, I think the need thing has to be now.
1:23:54They all know there's a need.
1:23:55I mean, the crisis of the city has been written about for the last 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years.
1:24:00But if you just come in there and say that now...
1:24:03We had our hopes up.
1:24:04We counted on this.
1:24:05We need it now.
1:24:06This is going to have a great effect.
1:24:09Then, of course, the other parts need to be made.
1:24:12I don't know.
1:24:13Don't you think they ought to get back to?
1:24:15I think they'll get that very strongly.
1:24:17Not just in terms of getting the bill.
1:24:19I think you're going to get a bill.
1:24:21The Senate problem is what's in it and what's on it.
1:24:24You've really got to pay your attention to it.
1:24:26But the quicker they move...
1:24:28We're going to start writing those checks because we've got to get authorizations and this and that.
1:24:38Could it be lost in Congress?
1:24:41What?
1:24:41If you get the bill on extension, believe me, it will come out in Congress.
1:24:47Because you don't have the...
1:24:52You see, it would be Wilbur Mills and Johnny Burns.
1:24:55Wilbur Mills and Johnny Burns and Jim Burke and... Well, I'm in the top level.
1:25:03That's right, Johnny Burns and Bill.
1:25:08They know how to make a conference move fast, even when they're pretty far apart.
1:25:13But if they're not so far apart, you get them quicker.
1:25:16The only thing that can really follow a conference, if you were to take it,
1:25:20something that we want another thing.
1:25:22We want a separate welfare reform hanging on this.
1:25:26Then forget it.
1:25:27I mean, first of all, if you try that at the Senate, that is going to fail.
1:25:32That's going to fail.
1:25:34And then that might, by hanging the two together, you get the enemies of both together, and that kills it.
1:25:41You always unite enemies.
1:25:42You say unite friends with something, but the most important thing is to unite enemies.
1:25:47Welfare reform by itself, in my opinion,
1:26:06This will pass the Senate.
1:26:07It will pass the House.
1:26:09All we have to do is to get action.
1:26:11Roughly in the same form it is now.
1:26:14Just don't stray too far away.
1:26:16They're due down there in quarter to ten.
1:26:19The press will want to see the four spokesmen, I assume.
1:26:26Yes.
1:26:28I would simply close the meeting by saying we appreciate your coming down to support this.
1:26:35There are many other concerns that you have in the city, but we always want to hear from you as long as we're here.
1:26:55Thank you.
1:26:58Right now, this is subject to both the board of the press and the board of the Senate.
1:27:08Just to get another whang out of it.
1:27:12I really appreciate it.
1:27:14Don't let me just say that I shouldn't have to say this to a group of sophisticated political leaders.
1:27:19Don't assume that you're going to get a big news story out of coming down here.
1:27:24You will at home, I hope.
1:27:26Because there are always other things that are up.
1:27:29We have sometimes been disappointed to get all those cameramen in here.
1:27:33We've got some very important stuff like revenue sharing and so forth.
1:27:37So we get two steps back to the personnel.
1:27:44But my point is this.
1:27:48The most important thing about this meeting, of course, is what you say to the press.
1:27:54It dribbles back to the Congress.
1:27:55It will get on the higher general health event and so forth and so on.
1:27:59Thank you very much.

Nixon, Landrieu & Massell on Revenue sharing and New Federalism

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