Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 104 › Conversation 104-011

Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Surrogate Speakers and Judicial Appointments

Tuesday, July 25, 1972 · 3:39 PM–5:13 PM ET · Cabinet Room · 1 hr 36 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Colson, Charles W.; Howard, W. Richard; Cashen, Henry C., II; Balzano, Michael P.; Rodgers, Donald F.; Rhatican, William F.; Koch, Noel C.; Barker, Desmond J., Jr.; Balsdon, Kathleen W.; O'Donnell, Patrick E.; Karalekas, S. Steven; Hallett, Douglas; Cohen, Howard A.; Evans, Llewelyn J. ("Bud"); Carlson, John G.; Stephens, Melville L.Conversation104-011 on Tape 104StartTuesday, July 25, 1972 at 3:39 PMEndTuesday, July 25, 1972 at 5:13 PMRecording deviceCabinet RoomSourceNixon Library record for 104-011 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with H. R. Haldeman, Charles Colson, and members of Colson's staff to discuss administrative communications strategy, the role of cabinet members in defending policy, and political outreach. The discussion focused on using cabinet officials as effective surrogates to promote conservative judicial appointments and defend administration policies to specific audiences, such as law enforcement groups. Additionally, the President touched upon concerns regarding rising food prices and the necessity of cultivating aggressive, action-oriented leadership within the State and Defense departments.

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part A, 1:28:26

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NARA Description

On July 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Charles W. Colson, W. Richard Howard, Henry C. Cashen, II, Michael P. Balzano, Jr., Donald F. Rodgers, Kathleen W. Balsdon, Patrick E. O'Donnell, S. Steven Karalekas, Douglas L. Hallett, Howard A. Cohen, Llewelyn J. ("Bud") Evans, Jr., John G. Carlson, and Melville L. Stephens met in the Cabinet Room of the White House from 3:39 pm to 5:13 pm. The Cabinet Room taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 104-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 104-11

Date: July 25, 1972
Time: 3:39 pm - 5:13 pm
Location: Cabinet Room

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, Charles W. Colson, W. Richard Howard,
Henry C. Cashen, II, Michael P. Balzano, Jr., Donald F. Rodgers, William F. Rhatican, Noel C.
Koch, Desmond J. Barker, Jr., Kathleen W. Balsdon, Patrick E. O’Donnell, S. Steven Karalekas,
Douglas L. Hallett, Howard A. Cohen, Llewelyn J. (“Bud”) Evans, Jr., John G. Carlson, and
Melville Stephens

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 7m 37s ]

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 3:39 pm

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:13 pm

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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     Colson’s staff
          -O’Donnell
                -Surrogate speakers
                -Speakers bureau
                -Work with Dean Burch at Federal Communications Commission [FCC]
                     -Equal time memos

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 17m 40s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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    Cabinet
         -Role
Show the rest of the log (82 more lines)
         -Secretaries of State and Defense
               -Defense of government’s policies
               -Criticism
               -1948 and 1952 campaigns
               -Partisan roles
               -Defense of administration’s policies
         -William P. Rogers
         -[Name unintelligible]
               -Role
         -Richard G. Kleindienst
               -Role
               -Police and fireman’s groups
               -American Bar Association
               -Audiences
               -Speeches
               -The President’s policies
                     -Courts
                     -Permissiveness issue
               -Issues
                     -Judicial appointments
                           -Conservatism
                           -Warren E. Burger
                           -Harry A. Blackmun
                           -Lewis F. Powell, Jr.
                           -William H. Rehnquist
                           -The President’s approach to Constitution
                           -Strength of issue

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 18m 35s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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    Personnel
         -Advancement
              -State Department bureaucrats
              -Defense officials
              -General George S. Patton, Jr.
                    -Dwight D. Eisenhower’s opinion
                    -Drew Pearson

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 34m 29s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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    Inflation
          -Popular attitudes
          -Food prices
               -Farmers
                     -Earl L. Butz
               -Butz
               -Ervin bill
               -Abuse of issue

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 30s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

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     Gifts for Colson’s staff
           -Cost
           -Lyndon B. Johnson’s gifts

     [General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President, et al. left at 5:13 pm

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Thank you very much.

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F***!

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F***!

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Kanskje det er en avgjørelse av en avgjørelse av en avgjørelse av en avgjørelse av en avgjørelse av en

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Tekst av Nicolai Winther

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Tekst av Nicolai Winther

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F***!

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It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense without ever addressing the partisan audience to defend the policies of this government.
or more Republican candidates for the House or Senate, because that makes it harder.
But where the administration is concerned, it is their responsibility on a high-level basis to get hard in defense of their policies.
And they're both effective, each in a different way.
Rogers, as we all know, is a very intelligent man, in a way that particularly appeals, I think, to
the middle of the liberal side, if you can categorize them.
And down the line, you have a choice man, with very little small groups, not particularly good people or big audience, probably little construction, but fine, and each of those spokesmen is willing, is willing to do the best that they can.
You have a client base, that might be a man who could be a very effective plus, but he must be good, and he must be programmed.
I mean, programmed by putting it in the places where, I mean, whether it's the Policeman's Benefit Association, or whether it's the firemen, or whether it's the, and not the American Bar Association, that is, or anybody that is involved with the American Bar Association.
I used to go into all kinds of audiences, and not just those definitely connected with law enforcement, and talk about what is one of the most fundamental issues, and many would disagree with this thing.
See, and I apologize, you've always got to take advantage of what is this way of doing things.
Whatever is a line of attack on the opposition, you must make an asset.
And that is the favor often of people.
Because when he's been under attack, you say, hide him.
You can't hide him.
What you do is to say, they made him an actual celebrity, then he goes out.
Why?
He makes a good appearance.
He can make a strong speech.
And he's the problem.
We live in a country about how he turns around the courts.
He's the problem.
He can make an asset out of the fact that the Nixon party has turned around the whole issue of
is, and we like him enough, we respect what this, and we're going to make an asset of him.
He has appointed, and he's going to continue to appoint, judges who have a conservative view of their attitude, not for the law, but for interpretation of the Constitution.
Because I believe that's the only perfect way for lawyers to protect themselves.
It doesn't mean that you don't find her black.

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F***!

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F***!

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You show me the people that haven't made any yards for the United States, and I'll show you State Department bureaucrats all over this world who've gone to the top by sitting on their men's and trying to stay out of trouble.
You show me defense people that have done well, go to the top, and so forth, and unfortunately, too often, those who go to the top are the guys that played cleverly in the rest and stayed out of trouble, whereas some guys who may have taken risks in order to...
to go up, and he's lost forever.
Patton is a pretty good example of it.
I mean, Patton was a genius, and also an action man.
As I was told, he had to make that tough decision, despite the enormous tax rebate made on Patton.
But he said the reason he made it, after being investigated by the Congress, through persons after the arrest, he said...
We had a man, he had around an army, and he looked over everybody, and he said there was only one man who could do it, and it was the best of his time.
So he cleaned him up, set him up, and that's it.

— 17 min 5 s with no transcribed speech —

Tekst av Nicolai Winther

— 17 min 45 s with no transcribed speech —

I think he's building the foundation to sort of drive against it.
But he doesn't want to be a builder of this.
You're feeling the accumulative effect of a lot of these little things that are starting to end up.

Also recorded on July 25, 1972

  • 752-013 2:29 PM · 29 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:29 pm to 3:04 pm.
  • 752-014 3:04 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Dr. John A. Hannah, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Peter M. Flanigan, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:04 pm to 3:37 pm.
  • 104-012 5:13 PM — Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:13 pm on July 25, 1972 and 1:50 pm on July 28, 1972.
  • 104-013 5:13 PM · 2 min — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:13 pm on July 25, 1972 and 1:50 pm on July 28, 1972.
  • 753-001 5:13 PM · 29 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:13 pm and 5:14 pm.
  • 753-002 5:13 PM · 39 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:13 pm to 5:14 pm.
  • 027-051 5:14 PM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, James H. Rademacher, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone from 5:14 pm to 5:17 pm.
  • 753-003 5:14 PM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and James H. Rademacher met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:14 pm to 5:17 pm.

All 50 conversations from July 25, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 104-011, July 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/104-011 (accessed November 2, 2026).