Conversation 133-002

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Hello?

Good evening, Mr. President.

How are you, sir?

It's a little early on California.

Well, it is a little bit.

We don't have any returns in yet, Mr. President, as such.

Well, we do.

We have about 20,000 votes in, McGovern winning in the San Mateo area.

But a judge has locked up the...

The ballots, they can't count until 2 a.m. our time because of the complication in San Francisco where the ballot is so long and complicated with local offices that the polls will stay open out there until 11 o'clock West Coast time and therefore 2 o'clock a.m. our time.

cbs did do a poll of 2 000 people who voted today and they found mcgovern winning in all areas not as big as the field poll you were you were absolutely right today when you said that he would he wouldn't win with that big a margin he apparently by the cbs poll the governor is going to win it but he's not going to win it that big uh

By the CBS poll, 95... That's good.

Oh, that's very good.

Well, there's another surprise in there, to me at least, and that is that 95% of the Republicans voted for you, which means that McCloskey and Ashbrook, if the CBS poll is correct, McCloskey and Ashbrook will share 5%, which delights me.

Right, and should delight you, sir.

But one other surprise in New Mexico, and I think this is just fantastic, with 66% of the votes in, McGovern has 32%, Wallace has 30%.

Thirty.

Thirty, yes, sir.

And Humphrey, 26%.

And they can talk all they want.

Well, McGovern is in trouble.

Yes, sir.

I think that's right.

You know, that isn't even getting a third of the state.

And if he wins it, when you stop and think about it, that's the way he's won all these primaries, with about a third of the Democrats.

Right.

Or a little better than a third, maybe, or 40%.

But I think only, well, even in Oregon, he didn't get 50%.

He got just below 50%.

So he bargained and today... No, that was while you were in the Soviet Union.

He won Oregon, but he didn't quite get 50%.

But the point is that he hasn't... Looks to me like he hasn't gotten...

He really hasn't gotten a majority in any state.

So when you stop and think about it, well, he's impressed everybody with his...

momentum, so-called momentum in the last few weeks.

He still hasn't gotten a majority of the Democrats anywhere, and you take a state like New Mexico, hell, that 30% of that vote that's going for Wallace, that's our vote.

My God.

Now in New Jersey, he's doing about the same.

With 20% of the vote in, he's getting, on the statewide ballot, he's got 36,000 votes.

And Humphrey has 29,000.

So that's a closer race than McGovern expected.

He's going to win the delegates up there, but he won't get the big, poppier vote that was expected in New Jersey.

And he may not in California.

So I can't think of a happier result from our standpoint, Mr. President, than for him to get...

33, 35, 38 percent of the vote and still get the delegates because that means he doesn't have the majority of the Democrats with him.

And your vote in California is at the moment, according to CBS, although they only have very early returns plus a poll, that's a hell of a performance in a state where Ashbrook has been spending all of his time campaigning.

So I think that's good.

I would say if these returns continue tonight the way they've started, that's a hell of a good return for us.

And I think all those Democratic governors down at the governor's conference who today were just as upset as yesterday about McGovern.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, it moved on the wires this afternoon, Mr. President.

Governor Carter of Georgia, who said that he still has very grave concerns.

He said he has a much higher proportion of delegates than popular votes.

Bumpers of Arkansas said that he wasn't sold.

Governor Ford of Kentucky said, I haven't found him any more acceptable than before.

He used a lot of bureaucratic language in the meeting.

And he's going to have to modify a lot of his positions before the governors in that room are going to support him.

So he didn't help himself when they came out.

So you think that McGovern is not slaughtering him?

He's not slaughtering him, Mr. President, and I think what's happened is that

You know, all of us for the last week have been convinced that Humphrey hurt himself by attacking McGovern, and that we've all felt that McGovern's image hasn't been pierced.

But I'm beginning to think now that we're beginning to get through to him.

Not that we are, but that he's beginning to lose a little bit of the...

and he's beginning to be a little bit, some of the radicalism is coming through.

Cronkite tonight on television said that McGovern's extreme positions on national defense had hurt him with the aerospace workers in California.

And so it may be that Humphrey has done a great service for us.

and has just cut him up badly enough, not badly enough to stop him, but badly enough so that he isn't going to just... We heard something tonight that Kennedy is going to go for vice president on the coverage deck.

Oh, I don't think that'll happen.

That's not...

I don't believe so.

If he were going to go at all, he'd go for the number one spot.

But if he can avoid it, he won't be out there this year.

I think he knows damn well that we would just kick the hell out of him.

And he gains nothing by...

by running for vice president on anybody's ticket.

I don't think that would ever happen.

Well, you remember Roosevelt ran and... Yeah, that's right.

You know, with Cox.

With Cox, yeah.

Well, that's right, except Teddy doesn't need the... You know, Roosevelt needed the exposure, if you remember.

He needed to get a national name, but...

Kennedy doesn't need that.

I think that's the last thing he would... That's the last thing he would want to do.

This will... go down...

Yes.

Just the right amount, Mr. President.

And now there's this very serious move underway in the Democratic Party.

We had a very good...

from Dwayne Andrews today, who's a good, solid fella.

And he owned a supplier of Huberts.

Right.

And McGregor went out and had a meeting with him today, very sobrosa, which Mitchell and I arranged yesterday afternoon.

But Andrews is going to organize the

conservative Democrats, Mills, Wallace people, Humphrey people.

What about Andrews?

He'll be with us after the convention unless Humphrey is nominated.

And he can do some very interesting things for us because he has the strings on some very big money into that convention.

And the way it stands at the moment, he's helping Humphrey because they're old personal friends.

And he's going to help over the next five weeks to organize a stop McGovern or hurt McGovern move, try to cut him up with putting the Mills, Wallace, and Humphrey people together, and then get Meany's help.

Oh, George is really getting well.

Yes, he is.

He is getting well.

And he's also Meany.

You don't mean Wallace.

You mean George Meany.

Yeah.

Yeah, he is.

He's getting well, and he's...

he's beginning to get very very concerned over over the mcgovern thing uh and he'll be uh he'll be doing a lot of work for us in the next five weeks and uh getting material out to some of it i saw today which is pretty good stuff uh statement mcgovern made a year ago that he uh

believed more in the vietcong and the north vietnamese than he did in president two terrible terrible and the prisoner issue he's got himself stuck on that one and then the national security defense issue he's uh i don't see how many can ever can ever reconcile himself to that

I think we're going to have a very strong ally in the next few weeks in getting to McGovern.

But you know, Mr. President, I think what may be happening to McGovern is what happened to Muskie very early in the year.

Remember when Rogers went after him and we all took him out on the war and everybody said we were building him up.

Well, we didn't.

We cut him apart.

And I think what may be happening to McGovern

in the last week is that he hit his peak, and he had to start defending the issues, defense, welfare.

And he just may not show up quite as good in these primaries as all the media were building him up.

They build him up pretty fast.

And you build a fellow up fast that way, and we may be able to knock some of that luster off of him.

Of course, it's a little early.

You can't... That situation in California is hard to tell until we get some more returns in.

But on the, uh, at least on the initial ones, he's not, uh, he's not showing such a great show.

We'll have some, uh,

We'll have the figures in the morning pretty early, Mr. President, if you'd like me to get them to you.

Yeah.

How long is that?

I'll get you the results in the morning as soon as I have some good figures in.

I hope you get some good weather up at Camp David, Mr. President.

Great.

I hope you can get some rest up there, sir.

Well...

I think we'll have some fun in the next few weeks watching this fella get knocked down a little bit.

It's been an interesting...

I've had some interesting reports from around the country on how well you're standing on things right now, which is about the best I've heard in three years.

I heard from my friends up in Massachusetts, Brooke and Heckler and others this week, that they're all...

They're all up and campaigning right now.

They just think things are going great for you.

Yeah.

And Haig is going out in the morning to brief George Wallace.

Yeah.

Who's apparently holding on all right.

Well, if you'd like, Mr. President, I'll get to you in the morning with the California returns.

That'll be the way they're counting, and it'll probably not be until 6 or 7 that we get some results.

So I'll have them for you first thing in the morning.

Would you want me to call you in the morning with those, sir?

Would you like me to call you in the morning, uh...

Should I call you in the morning, Mr. President, with the results?

Let's get out of here.

Hello?

Mr. President?

Shall I call you in the morning, Mr. President?

You all right, sir?

Well, I hope you're able to catch up on the rest you need.

Well, you deserve some rest, Mr. President.

Go ahead.

All right, sir, and I'll talk to you tomorrow when we get all the results in.

Because...

That was his long life.

Sir?

That had a long life.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Well, what's your evaluation?

Well, I think right now I couldn't be happier with the way it is.

Frankly, I think it's just perfect to have McGovern winning, but to have him beginning to be cut down a bit.

So it looks to me like if these results continue, it looks to me like just the way we would like to have written the script if we'd written it ourselves.

And I think that 95% Nixon vote in California here couldn't be any better.

Maybe that'll bring our conservative friends back wanting to talk to us again.

Well...

It is very... Did you talk to Goldwater today, Mr. President?

I sure did.

He's always... Oh, that's marvelous.

Well, he's a great soldier, and he'll be a great help to us.

Well, he thinks...

He thinks the world of you, and he's a great fellow to have in there fighting with us.

Who is that?

I am free.

I will live.

Well, Connie handles it so well.

What was that, sir?

Connie has it so well.

I guess I...

I didn't quite understand.

Conley.

Oh, Conley.

Conley is... Conley, you say?

Conley is handling himself very well.

You mean on this trip that he's taking?

Well, no.

He went pretty far out.

Okay.

Well, Connelly, uh...

He closed the...

He took a... Well, he took a...

He's a great fella who's... who's sure awful glad he's on our side.

I was sorry his brother got beaten down in Texas.

They're sure knocking off a lot of those fellows down there, but that only helps us because the people that are voting them out aren't on our side.

The people that are being licked down there are going to do us a lot of good, I think.

Things couldn't be any better from our standpoint, Mr. President, than they are right today.

You should be very proud of what you've accomplished in the last three weeks.

Thank you.

You've got things going.

Yeah.

Hitler is.

And the Germans are really cutting him up.

Germans are cutting him up.

Oh, yes, he is.

Mills.

You mean Mills?

We'll, we'll handle... We'll, uh, we'll handle Mr. Mills.

Mr. Mills.

Well, they are.

They are that all right.

Yeah.

Well, uh, m-m-mixed is exactly the word, Mr. President, but you were right when you called it today.

You said that it wasn't going to be as big a spread as all the field poll and others were predicting, and apparently that's the case.

I would say it's mixed, but it's mixed our way.

It's the way that we would like to see it.

Well, I hope you can get some rest.

I'm fine.

Well, you've had a tough three-week, four-week grind.

Mr. President, it's been tough, really, since that North Vietnamese invasion began.

It's been a lot of pressure, but you've... That's going well.

Oh, it's going marvelously.

The reports from there just...

every day uh the reports are just superb and i think that that issue is a is a complete plus to us right now yeah when you look at the polls in fact you look at all the polls not just uh

What, what, some, some, some weird things?

Well, he thinks that we're in what he would regard as phenomenal condition.

He says that you're a hell of a lot stronger today than Ike was at the same point, that the public are completely behind you on the war in Vietnam, completely behind you on the

uh what you've done with the soviet union and that their feeling about the economy is very very bullish the only weak spot that sinlinger says we have is on the if the food prices start up again we've got to clamp down on them very very hard but this is something do do that oh we will absolutely uh

This is something that Schultz and I have been working on since yesterday morning to have a mechanism that we can stop the rise in meat prices.

But on everything else, Sendlinger says we're riding very high.

Harris is in the field right now.

And we don't have any...

preliminary from him uh no not yet mr president uh we'll have it though uh i'll have his figures this weekend and uh we know they'll be way up there however uh they may be too high we may want to temper them a little bit because uh you don't want to have uh too much of a of a peak that we can offer but uh

We'll watch those figures very carefully.

Is Teddy going to run for vice president with MacGuffin?

Well, I just don't think so.

I really don't, because I can't see anything in it for him at all.

And I don't know whether you noticed that Oliver Quayle poll out in Illinois

that was taken last week on Teddy.

Teddy running against you in an Oliver Quayle, you know, as you well know, is a Democratic pollster.

And Quayle found you just running away with Illinois over Teddy.

A very, very...

a solid victory and most importantly found that on what he calls his trust or confidence index it was taken for harper's magazine yeah maybe you saw that but no well on the trust index kennedy got 47 percent down one percent from last november while nixon rose from

60 to 66% in Illinois.

But nationally, what he calls his trust index, which is confidence in the personality, you're way ahead.

And he showed on a two-way race, 60 to 40.

Nixon over Kennedy.

And

Quayle's conclusion is that 60% of the people said they trusted Nixon more than they trusted Kennedy, and only 36% said they trusted Kennedy more than Nixon.

Quayle's conclusion is that Kennedy wouldn't be a good candidate for anything.

What do you think of his vice presidential thing?

Well, the only thing he could gain is to wipe out the bad image of Chappaquiddick if he ran.

Yeah.

I remember Kennedy did that in 56.

Tried to.

But you have to remember, too, that Jack Kennedy in 56 was not well known.

And that was his way of getting...

getting known nationally whereas teddy is already known uh yeah so that's a it's a different ball game mr president i don't think there's anything in it for him and uh what about the labor and all the rest still but you told me earlier today huh yes sir we're going to do very very well with those fellows they just

It's very interesting.

The labor leaders will not buy McGovern, and the rank and file won't buy Humphrey.

And what you've really got are two Democratic candidates that labor doesn't want.

And if they could get Kennedy, the labor would turn out for them.

But that's all.

Beyond that, we're going to do extremely well with them.

We're going to do

Surprisingly well.

What about Teddy running vice president?

Doesn't that bring all the Catholics back?

No.

No, sir.

You don't think that, huh?

No, I really don't.

And I don't think the Catholics, Mr. President, are going to vote.

anymore for a catholic i think they're going to vote for the issues last week while you were in while you were still on your trip the wall street journal did a very extensive survey of the catholics and the catholic vote and the conclusion of all their interviews was that europe running now ahead with the catholic vote and they did a lot of interviews with church leaders

And they did a lot of interviews with Democrats like Danny Rostenkowski.

Danny Rostenkowski had a marvelous statement in here.

He said if the president thinks he's scoring with the Catholics, he's got his finger right on the button.

And so did this fellow Novak, who's not Bob Novak, but Michael Novak, the author who writes about the ethnics.

And he says in here, I'm sorry to say that

Nixon is more aware of the issues important to him.

Nixon has a more practical approach to them than any Democrat.

And Father Barone and others are quoted in here as saying that you're going to win the Catholic vote this time, no matter who's your opponent, because of all the things you stand for, things you've done in foreign policy, the schools, the abortion.

He goes right through the busing, very strong with Catholics.

spiritual values moral code i'll be anxious to show you the interview which cardinal kroll did on radio free europe before you went to poland yeah we've got a tape of it and a transcript and he's going to let us use it in this country but it's about the best endorsement with the polish vote of anything i've ever seen

Polish Americans who listen to that are going to be very, very impressed in the campaign.

He talks about you as the greatest friend of the Polish people and his personal friend and how much he thinks of you personally.

Kroll is a great fella.

You're right.

And we have Kroll and we have Cook and we've got McManus

And I don't think Teddy would make a particular difference for those fellas.

They're pretty practical.

Well, maybe.

But you know, Muskie was the only Catholic running in Wisconsin, and he sure as hell didn't do very well in those Catholic wards in the primary.

And he sure didn't do much in Pennsylvania with the Catholics in the primary.

So I'm not so certain that that Catholic vote necessarily would follow the Catholics, and I'm not sure that, as a matter of fact, that Teddy would get it.

I think the days are over when people vote for...

when people vote for a Catholic just because they're Catholics.

They vote much more on the issues and the impression of the man.

And right now, with the Catholics in this country, you have the feeling, they have the feeling for you, that they sure as hell don't have for any other candidate.

Now, I think that's where we're going to make some very big, very surprising decisions.

gains we're going to fool a lot of people in that area in november because i don't care who the opponent is yeah you know peggy i don't know whether you remember congresswoman heckler up here in massachusetts yeah yeah she's a catholic and she's got a predominantly catholic district she said right now that you're you would carry her district and it's the catholic voters who feel the strongest about

you and uh well the poll the poll that we had in that district shows you winning it i just think there's uh i guess i'm not worried about i'm not worried about kennedy in that with that vote at all the kids and the blacks and the poor yes but uh well we might get the kids before the

Kennedy era.

That's right.

Yes.

We will, and we'll get some of the newer ones.

You know, that... That's what I mean.

That's right.

But don't remember that California poll that was just released of all the high school students who voted in California.

And you won it.

You beat McGovern.

I think it was like 12,000.

12,000 high school students in that group, which are the younger ones coming along, that haven't been under that influence over the last few years.

We might just do very well.

But the blacks and the poor, Kennedy would bring them out.

He'd bring them out a hell of a lot more than McGovern.

McGovern isn't

doing well in that area and he's not doing well with the jews at all in fact he's doing very badly with the jews hey you're going to get out the jewish thing oh yes sir we've uh we've got we've already started on that and uh there's an ad in the jewish press that was run last week and there'll be another one next week but uh just cuts the daylights out of mcgovern and uh

There was an ad in today's New York Times that raised hell with you.

It was a very vicious anti-Nixon ad, because you've been so friendly to Israel, run by some Arabs.

And that doesn't do us a bit of harm.

It caused a lot of talk today.

That helps a great deal, you know, because there's a lot of money there that, not that we need it, but I want to keep it out of the other, keep it away from the other side.

And we will hurt McGovern in that area very badly.

In fact, I think in that, Harris believes, Harris is very strong on this.

He believes that if McGovern is the nominee, that he will...

When will Harris get out?

It'll be published the week after next, but I'll have all of his results probably by Sunday afternoon.

He usually works over the weekend to get his figures together.

And then he puts them out next week to be published either the end of next week or the first part of the following week.

But he's

He's got a whole big series this time, so we'll get a lot of very useful data from him.

Of course, he thinks we're on top of the world at the moment.

His only worry is that it's too good.

He said all your people are going to get complacent because things are just going so well.

Oh, no, no.

We won't let him, but he just thinks that

The mood in the country is a happy mood, a proud mood, a happy mood, an upbeat mood, which it hasn't been for... Yeah, that's very important.

Yes, it is.

You've given people a lot of hope with what you did in Russia.

And Laird has handled that well the last two days, just to keep things... Yeah.

Keep them in perspective, which he's done.

He's done a good job.

He did very well today again.

Yes, sir.

He said that the price of... Matter of fact, at first I was a little bit...

I was a little bit disturbed that he might have gone too far, but it's played out very, very well.

Today he said that the price of bed sheets in Washington had risen to a very high price because everybody was out buying...

white sheets in case McGovern wins.

Really.

Good.

Yeah, he really stuck it to him.

This was up before the Congress where he could do it.

He did it in a cute way.

He did it all right.

He did very well.

What's happening in the Brookings Institute?

Well, they're trying to cut the defense budget right now.

Yeah.

We've pretty well... $30,000.

Yeah, that's right.

They've got... Well, they don't go as far as McGovern, but they want to cut some of the strategic things.

We've pretty well dried up some of their money, but they're still functioning.

In fact, we took over one part of their operation that was being federally financed, and we've put that over in the hands of Rudy and AEI.

But they're continuing to...

Norway at us, but I don't think that many people pay all that much attention to them.

Talk to, uh, Haldeman's secretary tonight, uh, no, Patrick Kay or Patrick, what's her name?

Oh, Pat, uh, McKee, McKee.

Yeah.

McKee.

My God, she's strong for us.

Oh, God, yes.

Yeah, she's, uh, she's tough.

She is, huh?

Oh, yeah.

She's good.

Very good.

Yeah, she's very, very solid.

Well, you'd be surprised the number of people that are.

People we hadn't... A lot of places we hadn't counted on it.

You know, it's a phenomenal thing, Mr. President, that...

You could be up where Ike was in 56 when you think of the median.

Not quite as high because he was 75% of 68 or what?

Well, he was seven points higher.

I looked up the figures today.

He was at 68.

at uh in june of uh 56. yes sir we're at 61 but don't forget that was before you made your speech when you came home that was during the that poll was taken during the uh yeah june no i'm sorry in may it was 71 and in july it was 69.

And then in August it went down to 67.

It began to close up as the campaign came on.

It always does.

That's right.

And you know, we must not, Chuck, allow our people to get concerned about dropping the poll a bit and the momentum crap, you know, that we can in that group put out.

No, I agree with that, Mr. President.

And we also can't get sidetracked to...

I've told everyone this week I want them talking about SALT and the foreign policy leadership and leading the world to peace and the peacemaker and the hell with the revenue sharing and the hell with welfare reform and just don't talk about those things.

Those, yup, stay on our issues.

We can keep that alive.

I'm convinced of it, Mr. President.

We can keep it alive all summer long.

Yep.

McGovern can talk about $1,000 for everybody.

Hell, that isn't going to get him a vote.

I mean, that scares as many people as it wins, and we just don't even want to get into that.

Bob Bakes has pointed somebody, Buchwald or the other, that they won't vote for a president with no upper lip.

Yes.

That was this fellow McGinnis who made that today.

McGinnis?

Yeah.

Not the one who wrote the book on the 68 campaign.

Oh, yes.

He's a young writer, and he made the...

made the point that he couldn't be president because he has no upper lip.

And, of course, Liberace, the comparison with Liberace's voice, you know, has been widely made by... Well, we'll stay above him.

Oh, sure.

I know.

I'll let other people do that.

But nonetheless... You don't think Kennedy will run as vice president, huh?

Nope.

I really don't.

He might.

You know, Jack did...

well jack tried to because he needed to mr president he needed to get over that catholic barrier yeah it was a different issue then 56 and he wanted to show that he could run as a catholic and not not that wouldn't be an impediment to him and that was part that was back in the days when i used to work against that crowd all the time and that was sorenson's theory was if he ran in 56 then he would

refuse the Catholic issue for 60.

But he had a real motive for wanting to do it.

He wasn't nationally known in those days.

And I think it's different now.

I just don't see that Teddy could gain anything from it.

There's nothing in it for him.

And if he does, as a matter of fact,

i have i have to say this president if he does i don't think he'll hurt us a damn bit nope i really don't uh number one people don't vote for the vice president uh they vote for you

There have been some exceptions.

Well, you might get the Catholics.

Well, Labor, yeah.

Labor, that's right.

He might help a little bit there, but not with McGovern at the head of it.

You know, that's...

If you reversed it, then that might be a different proposition.

If you had it the other way around, Kennedy-McGovern, you might have a different thing to contend with, but...

i just don't think he would make all that much difference and as you know i really believe that he does not have that i don't believe i believe he's he he has a lot of pull with the media but not with the people not with the folks yeah but they're going to have a hell of a draft for him chuck oh yeah they will you mean say it's a party and all that crap

Well, yes.

That's true.

Kurt is himself on Chapo Quiddick.

Mm-hmm.

Don't you agree?

Yep.

That's the one reason he would have to do it.

I think he, I know that he's convinced that he can't win this year.

That nobody can.

That I'm positive of.

Therefore, the only reason he would do it is to purge himself on Chappaquiddick.

That's exactly the reason he would.

But I'm not so sure that that's a big enough motive to get in there.

Of course, the other thing, Mr. President, if McGovern wins all these today, even if he doesn't win them big, if he just wins them, he has about 1,300 delegates.

Is that so?

Yes, sir.

What about the fact, though, that he isn't trying to get the organization down?

He's playing that deal.

He doesn't need to.

Because if he gets 200 out of New York, it looks like he'll get 70 to 80 out of New Jersey and 271 out of California.

uh along with all the little delegations that he's picking up he then has right around 1300 delegates and i think even assuming it gets in the dark but i understand he's giving that up well he's only giving up part of it president he's uh there are 200 and uh i guess they're about 250 and he's giving up uh yeah just a second

He's only giving up about a quarter of the New York delegation.

uh, areas where he does not want to go in and fight the organization.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh...

Playing it pretty clever, isn't he?

Oh, he's playing it very clever.

He's a... Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

He's a very clever guy.

And, uh...

He's not clever, no.

He's not even bright.

He's dumb.

What do you mean?

It's that fellow, uh... Mankiewicz.

Yeah.

Mankiewicz.

Son of a bitch.

Oh, he's a...

He's a smart... A smart son of a bitch.

Yeah, and he's a... And he's a bastard, too.

I...

I've known him over the years.

He's a tough cookie, and he's a dedicated left-winger, and he's also a guy who is very sharp.

He's playing this one right.

But in New York, what McGovern is doing is he's challenging the...

He's not challenging the organization.

He's just picking them up where he can get them, and then he's leaving the organization candidates...

alone, and he's dropped all of his challenges to Daley.

That isn't going to help him.

Does he have Daley already?

Yeah, he dropped all of the challenges to the Daley delegates.

And what's your friend from Illinois say?

Bradshaw thinks that right now that it would take, we'd have to have a losing machine to

to lose Illinois.

He says that Daley will not work for the... Daley will be like Meany.

He'll go through the motions, but he will not organize.

He's very, very unhappy with the gubernatorial candidate.

that you were in tremendous shape.

Yeah, but that fellow Ogilvy's pretty goddamn weak.

He's weak and he's stupid.

He's not capitalizing on his opportunities, but that's all right.

Percy is running strong as hell.

That's good, and he's for us because of Salt.

Oh, now, Mike, he's out debating for us.

He was on the Today Show last week, raising hell with Scoop Jackson, and he did a good job, I must say.

He was damn good.

And he's running very strong.

As I mentioned, Rostenkowski thinks we're going to carry his district.

Don't forget that busing issue is very, very tough in one part of Chicago Northwest.

Bradshaw feels that we've got the state in great shape right now.

Of course, the polls show that also.

They do?

Chicago Daily News poll, which they've been running, which shows Ogilvy in trouble and Percy way ahead, shows us in good shape.

And the Quail poll that was taken out there last week.

Yeah, it didn't work the damn, though.

No, but it shows us way ahead.

And when Quail does that, you know we must be doing all right.

You'd rather wait it the other way.

Yeah.

The oil never gives us the brakes.

Call back to California and give me a call in 50 minutes, okay?

I'll call right now, sir.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr. President.

What?