Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 Presidential Election

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hello yes sir i have uh mr colson thank you thank you go ahead please yeah go ahead uh it's there are only four percent of the precincts in right now 10 o'clock isn't that something that's right but uh it's it's humphrey with 37 mcgovern with 52. and uh

60,000 votes for Humphrey, 85,000 for McGovern.

That was, as of 20 minutes ago, the latest, at least the latest count.

Well, Humphrey's doing better than they thought, isn't he?

Yes, much better.

Because, let's see, he was at roughly 25% in that last poll, and McGovern was up at 46, 24.

So this is closer.

Of course, you can't tell where these are coming from.

None of them are coming from San Francisco, where the ballots...

are still open until 10 a.m california time yeah so it may be there no until i'm sorry but san francisco has such a low vote doesn't make it much difference these are mostly coming from l.a in the southern part of the state uh in in our race uh you're running very very well uh ninety percent ten percent from for ashbrook but a pretty good turnout uh 101 140 votes

for Nixon and 11,000 for Ashbrook, which I think is damn good for California, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I'll settle for that.

You think everybody thought he'd get 20, 15 to 20?

At least, yeah.

We were saying 20, and we honestly figured probably something around 15 or 14, maybe.

But...

i think we'll according to the cbs projection ashbrook is not going to get more than five percent of the vote and uh so this may be high coming in from southern california all the radicals are yeah this is you you're probably getting the heaviest ashbrook percentage in that area and we may do better than 90 which would be phenomenally good under the circumstances but humphrey is doing a little better than expected he's 37

Right, McGovern 52.

Mm-hmm.

Got Dan, that son of a bitch, to do that, to know with his goddamn radical stuff.

It's awful, Chuck.

It's awful.

Well, it's a terrible thing for the country, but I think we're going to get through.

I really do, Mr. President.

You don't think he's going to clean himself up like he did with the governors?

No, I don't think he can.

He didn't clean himself up with the governors.

You know, he didn't sell any of them.

And he's not going to be able to as far as I see it.

There are enough people, you know, the treasurer of the Democratic National Committee straws.

And people like Dwayne Andrews, who we have, like, as I told you, we talked to today.

Yeah.

And...

Dwayne is for us because he's for Humphrey.

That's right.

And he's going to work on stopping McGovern now.

And you've got a lot of people that will really start... Can they stop him?

No, they can't stop him, but they can hurt him very badly.

And, you know, he's put a hell of an effort into California and a hell of an organization.

Now, you take a state like New Mexico where he hasn't, and he's still, the latest figures there, he's still running neck and neck with Wallace.

32 to 30 at the moment.

And that looks like it'll end that way.

Well, you see, New Mexico is sort of a conservative state.

Yes, it is, except you've got a lot of Spanish-speaking and... Yeah, but New Mexico is a solid state, you know.

That's right.

It is.

And parts of it are like Texas and parts like Arizona.

But even so, that's a pretty...

That's pretty dismal showing.

And I don't think 52, if he ends up there, and he may not end up that high, but even if he ends up with 50% in California, that's not the runaway that the press over the last several days have made it appear to be.

I think the polls were faked, Chuck.

Well, Field, of course, Field would always go that way.

Well, you know, but the Kennedy crowd has always been able to fake polls.

They've been masters at it, and they've been able to manipulate them whenever they wanted to.

Of course, we can't do that, can we?

No.

But what we want to do is do it and not get caught.

We've been doing pretty well with most of them lately.

Harris and Simlinger, at least.

and maybe now with gallop but uh gallop coming up at 61 61 yes sir that's that's damn good because he'll be he's impressed with this whole thing and i think that well we may find gallop being a lot more cooperative with us as we go along he's nick right that's right he is he's got that he's spent too much time in princeton uh in that atmosphere

yeah yeah yeah but i i really think uh mr president i think that there's some pre-showing 60 000 against 85 that's uh that's respectable and better than he was better than he thought he was going to do he called he called duane andreas today and he said what the hell will i do and uh i'm about a million two hundred thousand dollars in debt uh

Andrews has got a million dollars.

Oh, sure.

Well, Andrews told him to stay right in there, and he's meeting him in New York tomorrow.

Either tomorrow or the next day.

But he'll try to keep him in, because they want to build that anti-McGovern coalition.

You really don't think Kennedy will take VP?

No, sir.

I do not.

I really don't.

There really is nothing in it for him.

Why do you think he knocked off his Secret Service?

Oh, he did?

I didn't know that.

Yeah, he canceled it.

Holloman thinks he didn't want to be watched a little.

Well, knowing him, I would think that would probably be the most logical reason.

Right.

And maybe he didn't want the trappings of a candidate.

You know, that could be it.

And more likely, he wanted to be free to get out to California, where he likes to go, and New York.

Yeah.

The way around, which you can't do with those fellows crowded around him.

Well, I don't know about Georgetown.

I suppose I know New York and I know California.

And we've got a pretty good track on those when he goes there.

But that probably is exactly the reason.

I think Bob's absolutely right.

I didn't realize he had done that, but I'm not... Yeah, it happened yesterday.

As I think about it, I'm not...

He called Connolly.

As I think about it, I'm not too surprised, really.

No, I don't think he'll go.

If I could see anything in it for him, then maybe yes.

But he needs four years to wash away...

Well, this would wash him away, too, you know.

That's right.

It would hurt.

That's true.

There's a value in that.

But going down, it wouldn't be the manyest defeat as part of an operation.

Also, you know, they don't take second place very gracefully.

They're not the kind of fellows that like to be behind somebody.

Bobby wanted it with LBJ, but that's because he thought that was his way to get back into the limelight.

And, of course, Kennedy did in 1956, you know.

Tried to.

Yeah, he ran hard.

Yeah, he was trying to make a national name at the time when he, when really at that point in time, you know, nobody knew Jack Kennedy.

If you remember, he was an unknown commodity.

And had no national exposure.

But you have to know this fella.

Teddy, I've known him, God, I guess almost 20 years.

And he doesn't have the same tri as the other two did.

He doesn't have it.

And he's a playboy.

And he just isn't that serious about it.

I just don't see that there's anything in it for him.

I'm sure he realizes that McGovern isn't going to be elected.

And I don't think that he could... Elected?

Nominated?

I think he thinks he can be nominated, but I'm sure he knows he's not going to win in November, barring some catastrophe.

People of this country are just...

Mr. President, they're just not going to elect this guy.

They wouldn't, especially if we do our job right.

He doesn't get a chance, and I think Kennedy knows that.

Well, I told Bob today, as I told you earlier, that we've got to really shake up that 16th Street Avenue thing.

That's the place to do it.

Because they don't have the computers and all that.

That's right.

But we can see a lot of stuff in there, and we'll do so, because there's an awful lot that we can use.

God, there's a lot we can use, or have used, and will.

Wow.

But it's too early, unfortunately, to generalize much from these figures.

But this won't surprise me.

If it turns out this way, this is not that big a win for him.

At least, you know, the media, it's an interesting thing, Mr. President.

The media may...

They discover that if they try to build these fellas up too hard, then the fall comes awful fast.

You know, that happened with Muskie.

Yeah.

My God, every columnist and reporter and TV commentator had that guy nominated in January.

And then when we took him on and cut him up, he fell apart fast.

Yeah.

And the same damn thing could happen with McGovern if he starts running into...

Well, particularly if the Democrats take him on.

That's right.

Well, that's what we're putting...

I've met with Mitchell two days running, the last two days, for a couple of hours each day, and we've got some pretty good plans where we'll keep it steamed up on the other side and keep ourselves out of it.

That's the first requirement.

But we've got some stuff we can feed in there, some...

jewish effort money yeah yeah and just keep that one boiling with uh we've got some marvelous marvelous mail pieces that we're going to use with all of the fw mailing lists and a few others polish list is a good one some of these bussing groups that have been formed that uh

You think he's going to take Muskie as VP, huh?

That's always been my calculation, yes, because then he gets the East, and he gets an attractive image, and he gets the centrist and the Catholic, and he gets 200 delegates.

And if he could make that deal with Muskie early enough, that would be the way he would lock up that nomination.

And it wouldn't be a bad choice for him.

It would be a damn good choice for him.

As a matter of fact, he won't get the East, though, Chuck.

No, he won't.

They vote for President.

That's exactly right.

Exactly right.

Oh, hell, I think, Mr. President, that New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, those are going to be our estates this time.

What did you say about New Jersey?

What's that?

Well, right, the early returns, 20% in, McGovern was 36,000 votes and Humphrey 29,000, so that's pretty close.

But they figure that the projection was that he would get the seven at-large delegates, McGovern would, and he would get approximately 80,000.

out of the 109 district delegates that's pretty good on the delegates but that isn't very impressive on the popular vote but that's been the case all along you know that's what governor that's what the governor of kentucky and georgia said these two governors said today after he was down there they said well we've listened to him but we're not very impressed because he's got a hell of a lot more delegates than he does popular votes yeah and they said that publicly you know he

What do you think about the, Chuck, about the Wallace thing?

I mean, that's really still pretty much alive, isn't it?

Well, the phenomenon of Wallace is alive, Mr. President.

I don't know how much, I don't believe he's going to be.

And, I mean, I don't think he's going to be able to campaign.

I just don't think he's going to be in shape to.

Yeah, yeah.

And, by the way, Andrew has hinted at that today.

He did?

He's apparently got a friend that

has been putting money into wallace and he didn't identify him but he said he put a million dollars into wallace's campaign and he said that when he bows out he will throw his support to wilbur mills well what about what about mills vice president that's uh to those of us in washington that makes a lot of sense yeah but i think he won't he won't help though no no so lousy kennedy terrible

Agnew, you know, we forget Agnew's a hell of a good candidate.

That's right.

The minute you get out of Washington, Mr. President, nobody knows Wilbur Mills, you know.

Hell, he spent his fortune in New Hampshire and got 3% of the vote.

And he's not an appealing fellow at all.

We all are very hung up on him because he's chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.

We think everything he says is...

his life and death, but hell, out in the country, he's nothing.

And Arkansas is nothing when you stop and think about it.

We want to win it.

Oh, you're damn right, and I think we will.

I think we will.

I think that's the state we will take.

In fact, without Wallace, you go all the way from Arizona to Maryland on a diagonal line, and there's nothing below that that we won't take.

Right across Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia.

The polls in Missouri haven't been very good, though, have they?

They've been mixed.

That's going to depend on the Wallace thing, I think, completely.

Oh, I see.

And things are pretty good in Missouri right now.

You know, the employment situation is damn good in Missouri.

The Republican Party is in respectable condition.

You've got fellows like Dick Eichort, and I'll tell you right now, Eichort is not going to support McGovern.

You don't think so?

No, sir.

I will assure you he won't.

He's looking after his own cup of tea.

That's right.

Well, plus the fact he's, you know, his work on the suppressive Un-American Activities Committee, he just...

He's a hardliner.

He's not going to buy that stuff.

And he's got one of the biggest defense plants in the country in St. Louis, the McDonald plant.

Yeah, yeah.

They're not going to go where this check is.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, maybe it's a big evening.

Well, it could be.

I like the way it's coming out right now.

I'd like to see it come out just about.

I want to see McGovern win it, obviously.

But...

I'll pre-make a respectable showing and give us the next five weeks or four weeks to keep cutting and see the... Scott McGovern.

Right.

We've got some good help on the other side, and we'll keep feeding it into them and let them do the job for a while.

Right.

It may be getting through to the folks more than we realize.

You know, I watched Crockett tonight at 11.30 when he said...

McGovern is not doing well with the aerospace workers because they are very concerned with his extreme position on defense spending.

You know, they're beginning to use those adjectives just a little bit with the guy.

Yeah.

And that'll sink in.

He's riding the crest of a wave.

Nobody knows him, and he, except for his lack of an upper lip, he's handled himself well on TV.

Yeah, very, very skillfully.

Oh, he is.

On the debates, he's looked...

He's had more class than Humphrey, but people catch on pretty quick.

And my guys who come out, who go out around the country, Belzano and Rogers in particular, who go out into Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania, they run into tremendous antagonism towards the fellow.

The amnesty thing, the three A's, as they call it, acid, amnesty, and abortion.

Send these hard hats up the walls.

And that word gets around.

So I told you Goldwater thinks Humphrey's still going to make it.

Oh, does he really?

Yep.

He says, well, McGovern's got, he said, you know, God damn it, he's got the same thing that I had.

And Goldwater said, damn it, I wish I hadn't had it.

He said, I had the people outside the party rather than the people in the party.

Which is not true.

He had the people in the party, too.

Oh, sure he did.

Sure he did.

He had the grassroots.

He got the Republican workers around the country.

He spent all those years as chairman of the Senate campaign committee and just racked them all up.

But I'm surprised to hear him say that.

But maybe he thinks the convention is still dominated by the old guard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think he's living in another era.

Connolly doesn't believe that.

Connolly says the convention is going to be wild.

Oh, it has to be wild, Mr. President.

My God, these platform committee hearings have been the damnedest thing I've ever seen.

They almost seem to be going out of their way to take the extreme left.

And the more of that, the better.

Absolutely.

And the composition of those delegates is such that...

Hopefully he doesn't have the big blocks to put together that he did have four years ago.

That's how he did it in 1968.

But those rules changes.

It's a different ballgame in the Democratic Party.

Right.

Glad it is.

Well, it's a little late.

I'll let you go to bed.

We'll watch the returns.

I'll have them up to date in the morning, Mr. President.

Yeah, I'll call you about 10 o'clock.

Fine.

You get a good night's sleep.

Thank you.

Nixon phone call with Colson on 1972 Presidential Election

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 7, 1972

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