Conversation 014-151

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Connolly, sir.

Yeah.

Hello.

Mr. President.

How'd you get along in the big, ugly city up there?

I thought exceedingly well.

Right.

Tell me, the reason I...

The Times, the early edition, didn't have any coverage, so I just wanted to get your picture of it.

Well, first place, they had...

I saw the news summary.

It said that you gave a good, hard-hitting speech, but what's your feeling as to how they felt and the kind of questions and so forth and so on?

The questions were tough.

The audience was huge.

We had the largest crowd since Nikita Khrushchev.

where'd they have it where they have it in ballroom of the waldorf oh boy they announced publicly that we had a larger crowd than when prime minister wilson was there and president kennedy right they turned away 500 people oh god and that's terrific terrific so uh

It was an enthusiastic crowd.

The questions were tough.

They had been working on them for two weeks.

Did they do it by writing or all?

No.

Apparently, various members had submitted them in writing, and they had two questioners.

One was the vice president of the Morgan Guarantee, and one was the vice president of Lone Star Industries.

And they alternated asking questions, but they may or may not have been their questions, but they said they'd been working on them for two weeks.

I thought it went well, extremely well.

The audience was very responsive.

The questions were about everything, about the international monetary thing, the labor thing at home, phase two, will it work.

And I thought all in all, we had 45 minutes of questions.

Boy, that's good.

20 minutes of questions.

speech, 20 or 22, and a number of people.

You can talk to Gabe Hauge or some of them and get an unbiased viewpoint.

Colson will be giving me a report later today.

Several of them said to me that it was the best

the best appearance they'd ever seen in their 20 years or 25 years or something in the club so i was highly pleased with it great great and some of the press people uh uh with the new house man uh came up to me later and said it was the best appearance that he'd ever seen great and uh great so uh they're gonna build it they'll treat it different ways because we treated uh we covered so damn much ground you know either in the questions or answers and

So we'll get it played, I imagine, differently by every reporter.

Sure, sure.

I think the Washington Post missed the point of the story, talking about firm on tariffs.

Well, that's not the thrust of the speech.

It's a hell of a good speech, and I'll send it over there.

Well, actually, we'll get it in the Times, the second edition, I'm sure.

The goddamn Post, though, John, always misses the point of a story.

they must have had a poor reporter, because I could tell even from reading the little they had.

Of course, it was written so late, though, that's the problem.

You can't maybe blame the reporter.

Oh, maybe you can't, because we didn't get it to them until about 5 o'clock here.

Well, if you got to them at 5, they should have had it.

They should have had it.

I was thinking, though, that they were basing it on the questions.

No, we, well, some of it was, of course.

Yes, I beg your pardon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the headline on the inside of the Washington Post, I think, tells the story.

Connolly denies policies protectionist or something like that.

That was the thrust.

I saw that.

I saw that, yeah.

The whole thing was built toward that.

And you gave a confident, upbeat thing.

I got that impression out of a news summary.

Yes, sir.

AP, the wire stories, which are more important, John, than the Washington Post.

I said you can be certain that inflation...

will be less than it is now.

You can be certain that the wage cost push is going to be lessened.

You can be certain that there's going to be greater expansion in 72 than there was in 71.

You can be certain that there will be a decrease in employment.

You can be, and so on.

And this was in the context of the uncertainty that prevails.

Then I met with about 20 or 25 people after the speech up in a suite.

This was the head of New York Life and the head of Western Union and the head of Union Carbide and the head of JCPenney.

Oh, good.

Howard Park of American Express.

The Power Group.

Yeah, right.

The net of what they're saying is that the uncertainty, and they mince around it, but the uncertainty they feel stems, frankly, from a concern about what labor is going to do and what the government will do if labor is defined.

They're afraid that labor is going to run over us.

Incidentally, in that connection, as you know, the...

I am tentatively, we haven't told anybody, scheduled to do the AFL-CIO convention tomorrow in Florida.

I'm not going to determine until later today to see how much progress they make in the pay board and so forth.

If I do go, I'll just have to take a very firm line with regard to the need for their

operation and so forth and so on.

Yes, sir.

Would you think it's a good idea to do it or would you not do it?

No, I'd go.

You would?

Yes, sir.

Even though we...

Yes, even though you're not going to get the warmest reception.

Oh, hell no, we wouldn't get a warm reception.

And even though you might get some booze.

Sure.

So forth.

But I, again, in keeping with...

with this attitude that I think you're displaying and the view that people have of you now, that you would exhibit the confidence to go into the lion's den, that you're not afraid to go into the lion's den, that you're going to lead this nation, and this means even leading those who disagree with you.

And I would go for that reason because I manifest the courage.

I sure do.

Regardless almost of what you say.

I can't get into real specifics about the pay board because I don't know what they will be, but you'd simply say we need the cooperation and we know that they will cooperate.

That's right, and we have to have it.

That's right.

And just say, now, you're an integral part of this nation.

If you want this program to work, then you have to support it.

We know it's going to be hard for you and we know there are going to be decisions you don't like, but I have to take a lot I don't like.

Congress takes things it doesn't like.

We all take things we don't like.

We can't have everything we want in this society.

And you're no different.

And you can't be bigger than this government.

That's right.

And that would be the line I'd take with him.

But you'd do it, though.

I sure would.

Okay.

Now, I've got a point, too.

Alderman is checking with your secretary, and I don't want to bother you, but he tells me you're going to go be leaving again Saturday?

No, sir.

I don't think so.

to europe or no something well we don't we i see we scrubbed that that was an 810 meeting oh i think which i scrubbed it we well you see we get all they always they just had the tentative schedule then you'll still be here yes sir so i'll be uh but i'll be stuck if i go today go to florida i'll have to stay there maybe we'll see

But that's that.

Could I ask you this?

Could we...

I have straight-armed Arthur, and I have also kept Peterson away.

You know, we use the ploy that I've talked to you about.

We have offered him...

I mean, he's going to take the other job, you know.

So I'm pulling him out of play on this thing.

And incidentally, I think it's about the right time because he had a...

Two-hour lunch with Pierre Paul Schweitzer yesterday, you know, and that's the kind of thing, John, we've got to get the hell out of the way.

That's right.

We sure do.

Now, he just listened, he said.

But you know what I mean.

You don't just listen to these things.

No, you never just listen.

And we've got too many people in the game.

That's right.

I just want you to know that I've got that thing on the track.

Well, that's fine.

I'm delighted to hear it.

Oh, he's delighted.

Sure.

He's going to do the commerce job as Stans will.

When he returns in three weeks, we'll begin to make his move.

And by the first of the year, it will be done.

By the first of the year or shortly after the first of the year.

Maybe by the 15th.

But Stans definitely will go before the 15th of January.

Now, coming back to this thing.

That leaves it, then, in my shop, yours, to what I think are the three people that are good.

It leaves it to you and to Schultz.

Henry.

That's right.

Henry on the political side.

And he reflects the political stuff, you know, as he will to you.

Because George can tap into the council.

He knows what Stein and McCracken and all those fellows think.

And also, George is not doctrinaire.

He'll just play the game.

I think that's right.

He's completely loyal to you.

And does that meet with your approval?

Yes, sir.

So what I would like to suggest is if they...

I have told each of them individually that I'm counting on you to give me the line and the three of you to sit down.

So if they...

if it could be arranged that the three of you could meet.

after you meet, then meet with me, then my view is not to have a quadriad this week.

The problem with the quadriad this week, and I raised it with George, I said that you and I had talked and that you were willing, and George said, well, aren't we just going to go over the same ground that we went over before unless we get a line?

And I said, I'm afraid so, you see.

For example, Arthur still on his gold convertibility kick, and so forth.

So I think what we need to do is to see

our game is going to be.

Henry's had a very good talk with Cromer, which may be useful to you, where you can use him if you want to use him.

Then, of course, I know you have the thought that you might go before the Group of Ten and make a talk.

That's a possibility.

Now, in this whole thing, and this Henry may have told you, I don't know, but in this whole thing, and this has got to be just between you, Henry, and I at the moment, because we haven't told State.

It's got to come in another way.

Prior to our trips abroad, I've got to meet with our allies, and what I'm going to do, in addition to a Latin American thing, which isn't too important, that'll come in January, but what we're going to do, I'm going to meet with the French, the Germans, and maybe the British, I'm sure we'll meet too.

Now,

That will be in the month of December and early January.

You see?

Yes, sir.

Probably not till the 10th of December.

So by that time, while we don't have to have things decided, I've got to have something to talk about.

Right, right.

And on that occasion, it is my view, what I'm thinking of at this point,

Those will be working meetings, and then we will meet in neutral places.

I think the German will come here, and the Frenchman we may meet in the Azores, and the British are in the Bermuda.

That's our Kennedy plan.

We'd have, in addition to Rogers, who, of course, has to go, we'd have you go, see, and have them bring their finance minister.

Now, how does that shake down to you?

In other words, to have that kind of talk.

The problem that I have, John, with my going to a big meeting, which Rogers has been pushing...

like me going to the expanding the foreign ministers meeting and the heads of government meeting is that i just think it'll be 11 to 1 or something like that and i think if i pick them off one by one it's better does that sound like a good strategy no question about it i've got to meet with them though because you see they're finding that i mean apart from the

Apart from the monetary thing, they're complaining, you're not consulting with us about Russia, you're not consulting with us about China, you're not consulting with us about NATO, and so forth.

So at a time that we're meeting with our enemies, the strategy is that I want to meet with our friends.

The Latin American thing, incidentally, so you've got to have this in mind, we will plan as two meetings.

in Panama on the way down.

We'll get all the little countries together, about 10 of them, and then fly on down to some place in Argentina for a meeting of 10 others, all done in three days.

That'll be done in January, so we get all the Latins in on the deal.

We'd want you to go on that, too.

Does that sound like a good game plan?

Yes, sir.

It sure does, and we'll be ready.

We've got some ideas we could give you in the next five or eight hours.

And I'll meet with George and meet with Henry.

Do you want them to call you?

No, I'll call them.

I'll call them right away this morning.

Fine.

Well, no, no, there's no hurry.

I mean, the point is that they are prepared to do anything you want.

I mean, to sit and talk to you between the three of you.

Let's keep Arthur out of this game at this point because Arthur is not going to play the game our way.

No.

And then we'll program him just as we did up there at Camp David, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

That's fine.

Thank you, sir.