Conversation 015-153

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Yeah.

Good morning, Mr. President.

I wanted to tell you that we've got to go ahead this morning.

I'm going to probably have about noon on indicating before the conferees meet at 2 o'clock that unless this bill is cleaned up that it will be vetoed.

Good.

Now, this, of course, will create some problems in the business community there.

because they'll uh they'll they'll see that the uh they'll think the whole thing may go down the tube on the other hand i have i i first i'm convinced that i have no choice but to veto it if it has the political thing and for no other reason if for no other reason because i think it would totally dishearten our republicans who have fought and that's enough reason the second point is that

If we are going to veto it, I think the thing to do is not to play coy, but to let them know right away so that it'll start a big damn attack on us on the basis that this is terrible and cynical and this and that.

But also it puts the responsibility on the Democrats for screwing the tax bill up.

The third thing is that

This will require a massive effort now on the part of your people to get on these Democrats and say, for Christ's sakes, don't risk a veto.

We've got to have this bill.

Yes, sir.

I'm just going to work on a statement with Clark.

Clark's going to work on that.

It'll be a straight-up thing.

I've been authorized to say that the president will veto the legislation if it has his provision in it.

Laying it right out there.

I think that's excellent, because that'll help us, actually.

The big problem we have had, as I think I indicated to you on the telephone before...

But they're going to get it anyway.

Yeah, they just don't take us seriously on this.

So I think coming flat out, playing no games, putting it on the grounds of good government, really, because it is.

The merits of this case, the more...

into it, the stronger our position.

Sure.

Well, the business community particularly should know that if the bill passes, the influence of the business community on American political life will be cut

irreparably.

That's exactly right.

That's what they've got to realize.

Exactly right.

That is not a good thing.

Not a good thing for them.

It isn't a good thing for the country.

And the unions won't be affected in the slightest because they'll continue to provide organization and manpower and everything else.

They provide help that is far beyond.

That's right.

This community's stroke is through its money.

And they can just forget it from now on.

How is anybody going to pay attention to them?

Exactly.

Has anybody called your attention to the LSOP column this morning?

Yeah, I heard about that.

God, it was spectacular because what it says to the Democrats is you guys are guaranteeing a McCarthy candidacy because obviously he can get 5% of the vote, obviously Howard Stein can bankroll him, and we'll be a fourth party.

So I think that we may try to find ways to get that up to the hill and be sure that

one of those democrats reads it it may give some of those candidates a little pause it's a hell of a good point well one point that i'm going to have mcgregor made that i made to him i said if this passes it of course institutionalizes the wallace party that means that for the last time in this country we may have a situation where no president

will receive a majority of the vote, will not have a majority mandate.

That's right, and you'll either have elections in the future decided in the House of Representatives, or you will have presidents elected with very small minorities, actually.

Plurality, rather.

If you have five or six parties, a person could be elected president with...

percent of the vote, which would be a hell of a way to try to run the country.

That's right.

So the arguments on the merits are very, very strong.

You will catch some of our nervous mullies will all get disturbed because it'll be reflected for a while.

They'll see that the tax bill is endangered.

But anyway, they've been feeling it's endangered anyway, so we'll just let them have it right in the chops.

I think being completely forthright about it is much better than...

I absolutely agree with that.

And I think that in addition to that, Mr. President, this will get people exercised.

We can now get... Well, it'll exercise in both ways.

You know, the whole political science fraternity will jump on our shirts.

I mean, it's really, it's a, we have a, well, you either, Apollo Lake Wicker is a great, one of the few exceptions, but most of the, most of the libs are fanatically for this, you know.

Because they think it'll help the Democrats in 72, looking beyond that.

That's exactly right.

If they do look beyond it, as some of the more intelligent ones have, then they see higher consequences.

But I think we can make a hell of a case here, because there's a conflict of interest on the part of Mills and...

All of the Democratic presidential candidates.

Yeah, I saw that point in one of the things.

That's a very good point.

Well, we've been trying to peddle that everywhere because it really, it's strong.

These fellows have no business voting on the goddamn thing.

That's right.

I think the business community is all right.

They're going to get a shot in the arm, I guess, from the market, which opened up another 14 points this morning.

It did?

Yes, sir.

This announcement by McGregor may knock it down 14.

Well, I don't know.

On the other hand, we are making it clear that we're going to keep the Senate in.

I think that I believe, Mr. President, if this is done hard and forthright and laid on the line, we'll back the Democrats off.

We'll back enough of them off to make this go.

The market's up because, in my view, probably in this instance is the combination of things.

They read the weekend stories indicating that the economy had a lot of strength in it, and they also, the international crap to the effect that affects things.

I mean, you can't have all these meetings going on without them thinking things are going to get settled.

So that makes the gold buyers and the rest jump up and down.

I've got some of my fellows calling this morning, and the general reaction thus far is that everybody has now finally persuaded themselves that the economy is strong, that the consumer indicators are very, very strong, that...

The leading business indicators last month was a very bullish figure.

That has finally...

Even unemployment claims went down a bit, I noticed.

That's right.

And on a seasonally adjusted basis, in the first two weeks in November, they're down from the first two weeks in October.

So one would hope that if that holds, we might get another break on the unemployment statistics.

I think that, frankly, if we get that later this week, that

about what it's going to take.

I just think that's the spark.

Well, you may not.

You can't.

Those people are still over there, you know, and they'll follow it up one way or another.

But they have to adjust it in December.

This is the December one.

In January, they have to adjust for the year.

That's one we'll pick up.

We'll gain on that one.

And we conceivably talked to McCracken this morning.

He said that the

employment insurance claims that help the leading business indicators for the month of October considerably are looking reasonably good in November.

So it could be that we'll get a little break from it.

If we do, I think that's all it will take.

I mean, it's funny how volatile the feelings are.

But a week ago, you got nothing but gloom and doom talking to people.

Now you're getting

a much different attitude.

Feeling over this weekend, a combination of people making a lot of news, a hell of a lot of news on the international meetings, and that one figure on the leading business indicators.

I think everybody was kind of skeptical that maybe that wasn't going to turn up, and it turned up strongly and played well.

So I think that has helped us.

We'll fight hard on this Chekhov provision.

I just think you're absolutely right on that, and I think that until we make it a head-to-head confrontation, we're not going to get enough people excited to give us the help we need.

We worked on it over the weekend, and some of them...

Some of them we're helping, and others we're holding back a little bit on the feeling, well, this is just a little political skirmish.

It isn't real.

We'll go over this now with Clark.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, sir.