Conversation 159-002

TapeTape 159StartSunday, December 31, 1972 at 11:17 AMEndSunday, December 31, 1972 at 11:47 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table

On December 31, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:17 am to 11:47 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 159-002 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 159-2

Date: December 31, 1972
Time: 11:17 am - 11:47 am
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 238-26]

              -End of the year
              -Review of the year

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

              -Politics
                     -Accomplishments
                     -History
                     -1972 campaign
                           -Press relations
                                            -2-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. June-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

      Vietnam War
           -US bombing of North Vietnam
                -Press relations
                      -New York Times article
                             -Disagreement in administration
                                   -State Department
                                   -Defense Department
                      -James B. (“Scottie”) Reston aticle [“Nixon and Kissinger”] in New
                       York Times
                             -Henry A. Kissinger’s position
                                   -Compared to the President’s position
                                         -Messages
                                         -Cessation of US bombing north of 20th Parallel
                                                -Timing
                             -Kissinger’s relationship with the President
                                   -Kissinger’s possible resignation
                                         -Vietnam negotiations
                                                -Writing of record
                                                      -Breakdown in talks
                                                      -Effect on the President
                             -Comments
                                   -Distortion
                             -Reston
                                   -The President’s refusal to see
                                   -Interview with Chou En-Lai
                             -Accuracy
                             -Source
                      -Kissinger
                             -Marvin L. Kalb’s story
                                   -Colson’s conversation with Kissinger
                             -Conversation with Kalb
                                   -Kissinger’s conversation with the President
                                         -Kalb’s congratulations
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                           -3-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                     (rev. June-08)

                                            Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

-John A. Scali
-Cessation north of 20th Parallel
      -Announcement
             -Colson’s conversation with Scali
      -Timing
-Public relations [PR]
      -International protests
      -Britain, France
      -International protests
             -Australia, Sweden
-Press relations
      -Scali’s view
      -Scali’s role
      -Helen Thomas
             -Gerald L. Warren’s press conference
             -“Peacenik”
      -Robert Pierpoint’s report
             -Scali
      -Alleged US capitulation to North Vietnam
             -Credibility
                    -Columbus, Ohio
      -Motives for criticism
             -Washington, DC
             -1972 election
                    -Reston
                    -“Preacher”
                    -Scientists [American Association for the Advancement of
                     Science]
                    -George S. McGovernites
                    -Interim before 1973 Inauguration
      -Patrick J. Buchanan
      -1972 election
             -Effect on establishment
      -Kissinger
             -Conversations with Kalb, McGeorge Bundy
             -Conversation with the President
             -Harvard University
             -Reston
             -Telephone calls
                            -4-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                      (rev. June-08)

                                               Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

                   -Check
                          -Instruction for Colson
                                 -White House operator, switchboard
                                        -Reston
                                               -Palm Spring, California
     -Reston article
            -Kissinger
                   -Scali
                          -Ziegler
                   -Negotiations
                          -Settlement agreement
            -Investigation
                   -Colson’s call to Kissinger
                          -Sources
                                 -National Security Council [NSC]
            -Scali’s view
            -Negotiations
                   -Breakdown
                          -Possible leak of wire
                                 -Effect on Kissinger
                          -Timing
                   -Resumption
                          -Le Duc Tho
                                 -Paris
            -Attacks on Hanoi, Haiphong
            -Congressional relations
            -The President’s second term
            -Source
-The President’s policies
     -Accomplishments
     -Effect
            -Settlement agreement
            -North Vietnam
-PR
     -Colson’s view
            -Politicians
     -Polls
            -Albert E. Sindlinger
-Congressional relations
     -Samuel L. Devine
                          -5-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                    (rev. June-08)

                                          Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

      -Press relations
             -George Embrey article in Columbus Dispatch
                   -“Nixon Ends Bombing; North Vietnam to Negotiate”
                   -Devine
                   -“[William B.] Saxbe Feels Political Shock”
      -Saxbe’s comments
             -Devine
                   -Condition for support
                         -Apology
                   -Donald D. Clancy
             -Op-ed article
             -The President’s view
      -Cessation of US bombing north of 20th Parallel
             -Republicans
                   -Percy
                   -Hugh Scott
             -Dan Rather’s report
             -Hubert H. Humphrey’s statement
                   -Press coverage
             -Carl B. Albert’s statement
             -Michael J. Mansfield
      -Possible investigation
             -Consultation with Congress
                   -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
      -Negotiations
-Press relations
      -Cessation of US bombing north of 20th Parallel
             -Columbia Broadcasting Company [CBS]
                   -Hanoi
                         -Destruction
                   -Announcement
-Airplane losses
      -The President’s conversation with Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
             -B-52s
-Press relations
      -Timing
             -Attacks on Hanoi
      -Washington Post
             -Demonstration
      -New York Times
                         -6-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                   (rev. June-08)

                                           Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

         -Article
                -Writing
                       -Timing
   -Negotiations
         -“Serious” tone
                -Pierpoint
                -Scali
                       -Conversation with the President
                -Loss of B-52s
                -Kissinger’s press conference
                -US bombing north of the 20th Parallel
                -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
         -Kissinger’s press conference
                -Kissinger’s concern
                       -Self-image
                -Explanation of points
                       -Ziegler
   -Explanation of points
         -Herbert G. Klein
                -1972 campaign
                       -John B. Connally
         -Scali
                -Compared to Klein
         -Ziegler
   -Kissinger
         -Reston article
                -Col. Richard T. Kennedy
                -Telephone calls
                -The President’s staff
         -Concern
                -Self-image
         -Call from Colson
                -Kissinger’s telephone calls
                       -Palm Springs, California
                -Kalb
                -Reston article
                       -Effect on negotiations
                             -Le Duc Tho
                       -Questions for Warren
                       -Sources
                     -7-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

              (rev. June-08)

                                       Conversation No. 159-2 (cont’d)

           -Return call to the President

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Good morning, Mr. President.
How are you doing?
A long day in 1922.
I tell you, I had a lot of year, wasn't I?
It was a great year, Mr. President.
Well, it's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
It's been a lot of work.
.
.
.
Didn't you think that's where it went?
Oh, yeah.
I don't know what people are talking about.
They may make some of those up, but there's plenty of time to see.
I don't know what you can find.
I don't know what you can find.
I don't know what you can find.
No, I didn't say that.
I didn't mean to say it, but I just talked about it.
Well, you're saying that the British didn't like Roland Berman, and that too much of a scholar, and that the British didn't like him, and that the British didn't like him, and that the British didn't like him.
.
.
Oh, correct.
They wonder, of course, that we have five of them, and that's what we're going to do.
I don't know what else we're going to do.
We're going to do what we're going to do.
We're going to do what we're going to do.
No, you can't show any of it.
Let's be capable, by the way.
Let's be mindful.
No, you can't show any of it.
Let's be capable, by the way.
... ... ... ...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
... ... ... ...
And I think, again, I was very quick to understand that, you know, if you're here, if you're here, I couldn't sound to want to do it, but whether we can do it for you, I mean, I'm positive about it.
If we were to put it straight up front, we would do it for you.
And, you know, we were very happy to do it for you.
And, you know, we've got some hard-on for you.
And, you know, we've got to figure out the line.
We've got to figure out whether we can do it for you.
And, you know, we've got to figure out whether we can do it for you.
Yeah, that's right.
I don't think it would.
I don't think we would.
I don't think we would.
I don't think we would.
I don't think we would.
I don't think we would.
I'd like to believe that it's, uh, and I think we've got to believe it.
And I would be here to get our line across, but otherwise, they're going to put potential in other people.
Well, I think it's, um, I think it's, uh, yeah, I think it's going to go over the weight.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If you were on the other side and you wanted to really stick it to it, you can't write that, because we've articulated it and all that stuff.
And there's people on there, I believe, and they have Columbus, Ohio, they include it.
Uh, yeah, they got to the back, really, to Washington, and up to the Coastal Park.
And, and, you know, they, they, they, they build it up, you know, it's really, it's almost like, like, that's, that's where a young middle school student, you know, you can see it, you can't see others, you know, trying to build a building.
I guess another way to look at it, they were trying to build it in the middle of Montreal, too.
They were concerned by the enormity of their landslide.
And they wanted to get a plan to get back, to fight back.
And then they were on.
We were cracking right at the beginning.
And then...
Thank you.
the Christians, the Zionists, all of these demonized crimes, you know, they're just, wow, they're just, you know, they're kind of, you know, they're kind of curdling back, you know, they're just, you know, they're kind of, I think what they wanted to do was to take, I think what they would have loved to have been, you know, even before they first ran that, which is really, you know, before you're able to be an argument to the second term, it would have been one such an overwhelming victory, I suppose, you know, even before all of that,
and I can see that they are the ladies in there.
So, we arrived on the time, which is the current day, I think it's yesterday.
And like I said, it's a three-day, it's normally never, never, we drive in the wrong way.
We're in the back, it's the first day of the month.
So, that's what you've got to do.
You have to continue hammering them, just cracking them up, depending on what they're saying on Facebook.
You know, that's the kind of thing that we've been doing for a long time.
We've just got to keep doing it.
The thing you've got to remember is that you're doing the right thing.
Watch how they're looking, and they're going to ask a lot of stupid questions.
You've got to keep talking.
You've got to keep turning them on.
That's why I was really, really, really shocked after the Henry XV calls, the next call, and next year, the country, the country, the country.
And I said to him, of course, people are done.
I said, we don't have to see them anymore.
You know, and he just said, well, he says, I think he's done.
You know, the funny thing is, I think he's in a dilemma.
He doesn't really realize
I don't think he's well.
I think he is still, he is still alive.
He is still alive.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know what you have to do to get to the right-hand country.
I don't know what you have to do to get to the right-hand country.
I don't know what you have to do to get to the right-hand country.
I don't know what you have to do to get to the right-hand country.
I don't know what you have to do to get to the right-hand country.
... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ...
.
.
.
.
.
No, no, no, no, I know that.
I know that.
But you just say what's in it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll call him.
And of course, there's another thing too.
just by coming.
So if I forget anything, I'm going to be able to fix it.
We can, uh, finally, um, get one time to get it fixed.
Uh, we would have to go with just, uh, just getting them out of the car.
We're going to have to, uh, play a little bit of, uh, you know, a little bit.
It's very, very difficult.
We've got to come out.
We've got to go.
We've got to go.
We've got to go.
Right.
Right.
Oh, yeah.
People want to live in their own country.
Right.
And therefore, if you live in Baltimore,
I know a couple of other people and I know that you could be a part of our community and connect with other people in New York for sure.
But I just want to speak to the conversation that we're having here because we wanted to design a building here where the family and I would be doing pretty much the same thing.
I don't know if you want to put it in the name of the family or if you want to put it in the name of the community.
So I want to thank you.
... ... ... ...
We actually co-operate very actively and co-operatively with a very good little crowd of people.
We work with a lot of different people that I work with now.
It's good people.
It's not the, you know, we don't do too much to, uh, to, to, uh, not to know each other, but, uh, we, we are basically kind of co-operative.
I mean, that's, that's, uh, I don't know anything, uh, with, uh, different kinds of, uh, I don't know, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
Well, he's got something good even at the beginning, so you want to be good.
Yeah, I'm too good.
You can't remember this, but it's nice.
You won't have to be nervous because you're not in the picture.
Yeah.
Well, at least, you know, I don't know how they look at it.
All of us look at it.
We've got, you know, we've talked about this.
We've talked to you guys.
We've got their comments.
Yeah, I didn't want to do that.
You know, there's a reason for it.
You know, there's a reason for it.
You know, there's a reason for it.
Is that right?
Yeah.
But, you know, there's a reason for it.
You know, they're always able to get it to those in the rain.
All right.
All right.
I don't know.
Thank you.
The final test data is recorded in the bottom line.
The next one is the test data.
That's where the data is.
And then that's where the data is going to come out.
That's correct.
And they will.
They will.
They've got to come out one way or the other.
That's what I did.
That's what I did.
It's much better later on in the year than they have it on the trip.
You know, can you imagine if the station would have been locked in the morning?
People would have been stuck in there.
Well, you know, they're trying to get back to the theater.
You know, they're trying to get back to the theater.
You know, they're trying to get back to the theater.
And they had to put our investment in the head of it.
And they're not really going to be able to go to the department and participate in it.
It's kind of very positive, too, because what they're doing is not a good level.
And it's great because we have to be able to have a good conversation.
But you don't have to be able to be concerned about anyone being leveled.
Don't tell them how people want to be, whether they want to be, whether they're worried about it.
And the rest of the people should be able to afford it.
But it's pretty effective.
You don't have to be doing a lot of work.
You don't have to be doing a lot of work.
Okay.
but it was nice to be able to do this early, whether that was a holiday weekend, or a holiday holiday, or a holiday holiday, or a holiday holiday, or a holiday holiday, or a holiday holiday, or a holiday holiday,
and I would have been able to see them.
And I was like, I'm not tolerating any of that.
Today's papers are all going to be really glorious.
It's way up to you, sir.
And we're just getting a little bit out of it.
I don't know, but it would have been.
How did they help us?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Thank you.
What is it?
... ... ...
I just wonder if the only one person that I've ever lived with has ever heard you.
Before you were born, you had to die in the world.
How do you know?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
... ...
Uh, yeah, I don't know if there's any other negotiations we can have.
I don't know if there's any other negotiations we can have.
I don't know if there's any other negotiations we can have.
I don't know if there's any other negotiations we can have.
Oh, so that's where we got him now.
It's our tent.
We took it.
We took it.
We took it.
We took it.
We took it.
There's a lot of self-serving information and everything there.
And I guess that we have a great deal of experience in the system at this point in time.
If you read everyone in the newsroom, it's the same ground.
Logic, there's a whole logic to it.
And I love it when you know where you can go.
... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
... ... ... ...
I think it's due to the fact, you know, he was up there, like, you know, got Mr. Ryan off there, and he's just like taking Carl to the audience.
... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.