Conversation 018-006

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Secretary Rogers, please.

Secretary Rogers?

Yes, Mr. President.

Yeah.

Secretary Rogers.

Bill, at the meeting at 3.30 today, I'm going to attend, and actually I'll open it, and then I'm going to turn to you to share it in a sense.

The main purpose of it is basically to give Peterson a chance to sing on his stuff.

Right.

But the thing I want you to know is

that I feel, and I know Connolly feels it strongly, too.

He will not be here.

We're inviting Volker.

But I want to do everything we can, like at, say, your level, and Connolly's and the rest indicate that we're for all this, but I don't want to get us in the position that we have to carry it, because it's got about a chance of a snowball on hell at this point for us to...

to get in, you know, to reduce tariff barriers and all that sort of thing.

You know what I mean?

Yes, well, I don't think we can.

You mean you think we ought to go ahead and propose it as an administration?

The whole point is to set up

But Peterson is that.

He wrote me a long memorandum.

We need a legislative strategy because, of course, he's coming off of what we said at the Azars, where we said we'd have preferential to this and that, general preferences.

And the point is that you handle it in such a skillful way that, you see, you get what I mean.

Sure, I do.

Let's kill it without getting caught at it.

I do, I do.

And I've talked to Peterson.

I said, now, look here.

I wrote him a little memorandum and talked to him, and I said...

this doesn't have a chance, and we've got to handle it skillfully.

We've got to be for it because of our European friends and the rest.

But on the other hand, we cannot move in this direction during an election year because we've got the labor unions against us, the politicians will be against us, and so we're for free trade, but we don't do a hell of a lot about it.

Don't you agree with that?

Absolutely.

And now, on the other hand, what I meant is what you say and the rest of

You've got to say the right things, that I understand.

Well, of course, Mr. President, on the general proposition, the long-range view, we've got this committee of OECD studying the long-range trade matters, and we've got negotiations going with the community and with the Japanese.

This is not the time, really, to go for legislation.

uh maybe next year you're after something the other thing too is that i uh i've invited that fellow everly but i don't know whether he's in town if he is why he'll be here but otherwise it'll just be you and you stands and uh what time is the meeting 3 30.

Well, we had to move it at 3.30 because the others couldn't come.

I'll come over if I may on the Jerry Smith one.

I'd like to sit in on that.

10 o'clock?

Yeah, yeah.

You mentioned that last night.

The other thing you should know is that Fred Eaton called me this morning, and he's all set to go ahead if we're prepared to.

I still feel the way you do.

I think it's too much of a chance.

Yeah, I think it's going to be a disappointment to him.

But Bill, they'll kill him.

I think so, too.

They'll kill him.

And second, he's too old.

a little bloated and so forth and so on on this willis armstrong i mentioned to him uh to you him to you the other day head of our economic assistant secretary of state uh i put it all with your people over there and they're all enthusiastic about it can i go ahead and announce it you want to announce it over there however which way you go ahead i'll say that you plan to send his name up yeah you might say too that i

that I've known him for, if you don't mind, in the background.

I'd really rather have you put it out over there, Mr. President, if you will.

Well, maybe we should.

I tell you, you prepare it, because after all, I've known the fellow since I was in England years ago.

We might just announce that he's going to go on.

He's a top-notch fellow in the business.

People like him very much.

He's the executive director of the International Chamber of Commerce.

So I think you'd be very good for that.

Yeah.

All right, fine.

I'll see you at 10 o'clock.

No, incidentally, make that 10.30, because I've got to get McGregor in here first.

Okay.

So make the 10.30 with Smith.

Thank you very much, Mr. Smith.

Bye.

Mr. Warren, please.

Chair Warren?

Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. President.

hello mr warren mr president sir yeah with regard to the announcement of the state of the union uh i was wondering if that had been done or uh it had not yet been announced mr president i was holding off it's going to be the 20th at noon i've definitely decided it uh now uh i don't know when you can

Bob had told me this morning to hold off.

I think there's some congressional relations work to be done.

Yeah.

All right, fine.

Well, it can go forward any time that's completed.

Very good, sir.

Thank you.

Could you get me Mr. Smith?

He is, I think you've got his number, is being inaugurated as mayor in some little town in Iowa, Irishire.

The number is 712-426-2185.

426-2185?

Yeah.

Mayor Smith, Mr. President?

Yeah.

Fine, sir.

Thank you.

Mr. President, Mayor Jody Smith for you.

Hello.

There you are.

Hello?

Hello.

Mr. Mayor?

Yes.

I just want to congratulate you on the day of your inauguration.

Thank you.

And as the youngest mayor in the country, winning on a very exciting campaign, I'm sure that you're going to do a fine job.

I mean, your town isn't one of the largest, but it has all the problems, I'm sure, that other towns have, and at least this is the beginning.

I just wish you the very best.

Well, I'm trying and...

I want you to know that I support what you've been trying to do for the country.

Well, I appreciate it.

I understand that you work part-time as a bus driver, right?

Yes, and I referee basketball and baseball.

Did you play basketball and baseball, too?

No, I'm too clumsy.

Yeah, well, so am I. I never made the team.

And you worked in your father's garage.

Yes.

Well, I worked in a service station, my father's service station, so we had something in common.

And it won't do you a bit of harm.

It'll teach you what people are thinking.

Right.

Well, I just wish you the very best.

And when you take your oath, you can tell them that I sent my congratulations, will you?

And I hope that Iowa will be able to see you if you are a candidate again next year at the Republican National Convention.

I'm going to try to be a delegate for the state of Iowa.

I see.

Well, I'll sure look forward.

Well, you don't have to be a delegate to come.

You'll come anyway.

San Diego's a nice place at that time of year.

Well, I'd like to be a delegate.

I see.

Right.

Well, good luck to you.

Thank you.

But you get me a George Allen, please.

The George Allen of... At the Redskins?

No, no, no, no, no.

No, not that one.

Big George, the fat George.

You know, the one that's a friend of President Eisenhower's.

Okay, sorry.

Not the, there's several.

One is with the tobacco industry, one's with the redskin, and the other one is, what's it called, George Allen.

He's in a brokerage firm or a law firm.

All right, sir.

Thank you.

Hello.

Here is Mr. Allen.

Yeah.

I hope you can take it now.

Hello?

President?

Hello?

Mr. Allen?

Hello?

Yes, Mr. President.

George?

Yes, sir.

I wanted to ask you, I was trying to remember, George Shultz came in with a final budget.

What that Harry Hopkins story was about leaning on the shovel?

Oh, yes.

Harry said, uh...

They sent in a requisition for about 5,000 shovels.

Oh, yes.

And Harry wired them back, let them lean on each other.

Oh, let them lean on each other.

All right, I got it, I got it.

I want them to give the budget boys they're just having there to go through the agony.

I'm going to say, let them lean on each other.

That's a good thing.

Mr. President, I think you're just going great.

I'm so proud of you.

Well, thank you, George.

Thank you.

Okay, just keep it up.

I just wish you a happy new year.

I wish you just a happy new year.

You saw you're still the most popular man.

That's great.

That's only, George, because you're president, you know.

That's the one they know.

I think Billy Graham being second shows that it's a kind of a change in atmosphere.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I noticed some of our usual critics were squealing about the fact I had them to bomb a few targets in North Vietnam.

You know, that'll pay off in the end because you know what it means.

You've been so right.

Well, the point is that we did it so that we can continue our withdrawal.

We're not going to let those clowns get down there and kill a few Americans.

That's right.

Well, look, we had one man killed last week.

That's right.

Well, good to talk to you, George.

Ms. Nixon seems to be doing a good job.

She had a terrific reception.

Well, I'll remember that now, and I'll call George Schultz.

Yeah, just tell him that Harry Hopper, they wired in for 5,000 shovels.

Yeah, yeah.

And Harry says, just let them lean on each other.

They wired in from out some office.

Yeah, some state office.

Yeah.

A requisite.

I'll say that California wired in.

Yeah, California wired in.

All right, fine.

Thank you.

Okay.

Yes, sir?

Would you set up a conference call, get Schultz and Weinberger on the other lines?

Can you do that?

Right, surely.

Hello?

Yes?

Mr. Schultz and Mr. Weinberger.

Hello?

Yes, sir.

Well, I just got called to talk to George.

I'm on the story better than I thought.

back in the 30s in the early and Harry Hopkins was here and he was in charge of PWA or WPA I don't know which it was but one of those two he got a wire desperately from the PWA director in California asking for approval of a requisition for 5,000 shovels and Hopkins said

ripped off a wire back to him, said, tell them to lean on each other.

So you tell Laird to have them lean on each other.

Fair enough.

Very good, sir.

Now that's the laugh for the year, and you can pass it to all the staff, Cap.

Thank you.

Okay.

Very good.

Thanks a lot.

Yes, please.

Appreciate it, please.

Thank you.

Mr. Butterfield?

Is Patricia on for the president?

All right, he'll be on in just a moment.

Can she hold a second?

She's holding.

All right, good.

Alex?

No.

the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Dr. Kissinger,

Hello?

We've had good reactions on the show last night.

You must have.

You really must have.

Who did you hear from who really liked it?

Oh, the usual types.

I mean, actually, the Rogers.

Did you hear from Kissinger?

Yeah.

Oh, of course, Rogers and Kissinger and Elliot Richardson and so forth.

They all thought he was a bastard.

But they thought that helped.

I said, well, basically, the Smith program was so much better because the questions were so much better.

They said, no, but it wasn't as good from our standpoint because this is better when you have a bastard doing it.

Well, you know, in a way it's really true.

I thought, first of all, Eddie just couldn't believe it.

He said that...

that that the questions were all antagonistic and that and that he was rude he interrupted you and he did it about five different points right in the middle of what you were saying he kept interrupting and saying but but but what you just don't do i mean you can ask an antagonist but then you have to wait he was trying that he'll be the worst question that most blatant was where he said well you're didn't you plan to end the war oh you mean postpone the war and postpone going to moscow and post going i was awfully glad you brought

out the thing about the bombing, too, in 68.

Right.

That was a good thing to bring out.

But my God, doesn't he realize that you've been working for two and a half years on these things?

That's what I told him.

What does he think you do?

You change a policy overnight?

That's what I told him.

That's right.

That's what you told him.

And then I also like the thing you said about the future generations, you know, that you had to plan for them.

And also, then I also like the thing you said that...

piece is too important to postpone i think those are your exact words yeah that might be that quote might you know be my last yeah that was that was a very memorable quote and of course your answer on the blacks was great too the black thing i don't know where he ever does when he says i never heard when i said that the black i don't think you ever said that anyway no i i only would have said it in the context of something else well exactly this is another thing eddie brought up because you know he's using as far as money he said you just don't fling something

context, because otherwise, it just sounded very dubious, the whole thing.

He was an absolute bastard, though.

I couldn't believe it.

I have never heard anyone worse.

I didn't realize what he meant, but that Ms. thing at the end, because I hadn't read that book or the story, but I slid off of it all right.

That was one of the things I marked out as being a good answer and especially outstanding answers.

The freedom of choice.

I just said, well, I... Oh, that's endearing, but that was fun that you do what people wanted, which is good.

And that also people...

to have a freedom of choice.

Yeah, that's right.

That was how you concluded the answer, which was a lousy way to end the program on his part.

You know, it was a stupid question to ask at the end, but I thought that that was a very good answer under difficult circumstances.

Well, anyway...

Secretary Rogers.

Hello.

Hello, Mr. President.

Bill, I forgot to mention one thing to you.

Is Manolo gone?

Oh, he went away.

Okay, fine.

I was going to say that Flanagan...

or I guess you or somebody has reported that Fred Eaton now wants to take the job.

Well, I just wanted you to know that my view is for reasons that have nothing to do with the conflict that he is.

I agree with you.

On the other hand, I think that...

It's got to be handled very discreetly, and I would hope that you would, to the effect that you've made the check and that we figure there's just going to be a hell of a fight and we think we better not do it.

How do you think we can do it?

Sure, sure.

Because I can easily see, maybe you tell him, I can easily see that he just isn't the man for the job.

I think that's right.

The age and everything else.

I can handle it.

I'll just put it on.

He left it up to us, and I'll just take the responsibility, and I'll say I've checked it out, and I think we've run into a fight.

Nobody would tell us any time.

I don't know what happened that he decided all of a sudden he's...

And Vince Lee wants to take it.

Maybe they went on the mountaintop and thought it would be a great idea.

But my god.

And incidentally, it isn't really quite that.

because there would be a hell of a fight.

Oh, there's no doubt about it.

Yeah, and we just think that it would be, we just decided the fight's going to be too rough and that we need somebody there now and so forth.

What I thought I might tell him, but I want to get your approval, is to say that, you know, for 10 months, and that's what we're talking about between now and election, it would probably be a hell of a lot through four months.

So we wouldn't get there for six months.

That's right.

And also that there are very important things going on right now, and that we need them right now.

Well, what would you think about sort of leaving out the hope that after election that you'd like to consider him for something else, consider him for high post?

absolutely absolutely you could say that immediately afterwards that I think that we'd have no problem at all and that I think that you want to talk to him after that I'd like to and that that also because after that we we would hope to have a mandate and with that we we wouldn't have these fights that these fights always apparently are going to occur in election year and we've talked

You don't want to reveal the sources, but we've talked to the people we have utter confidence in, and that's that.

I'll do that.

This is no problem then.

Peter mentioned a fellow named Ingersoll.

Do you know him from Fort Warner?

Yes, he's a good man.

Another one that occurred to me was the Peterson that did the trade thing.

He's already in the other job as president.

Oh, the U.N.?

I had forgotten that.

I'd forgotten that.

It's all been announced and everything.

In fact, I think he's sworn in today or something.

Ingersoll would be good.

The difficulty is he's not the strongest man in the world.

He'd be a good man.

His father was the strong man.

He's a hell of a fellow, and this guy's a sweet guy, a really wonderful guy.

Well, let's not get anybody that's too sweet.

I think you need somebody that's not.

And I'd just like to get a little feel.

I don't know.

I think Pete ought to check a little.

with a few tough Illinois types to see really how tough he really is.

Okay.

And there was one other that, did Pete mention you?

I mentioned it.

He mentioned John McCone, but I don't really, he's too old.

He's over 70.

Forget it.

Well, Ingersoll, take a look at him yourself.

Will you do that?

Yes, I will.

Because we could consider him for something else.

He is a very good friend of mine.

He's a hell of a fellow.

Now, another one, of course, who would be great is Galvin.

The difficulty is that I think that John Mitchell sitting right here, I think we want to keep him in Illinois.

John, isn't that correct?

Let me ask John, do you know Ingersoll?

Could he do Japan?

John thinks Ingersoll could do Japan.

Let me just put it this way.

You get a hold of Pete, and then say, bring him in, and you look him over, and if you think he can do it, let's go with him.

Fair enough?

He's a, he's a, well, got to.

Let me see, what kind of a company does he have?

Boyd Warner.

Does that pose any problem?

I don't think so.

No, no, no.

Ambassadors are no conflict of interest, and they probably don't do, I hope, not much business.

It's a good company, though.

Yeah.

All right.

That'll be fine.

Well, I'll take care of Eaton.

Fine.

Okay.

Thank you.

But promise him something afterwards.

Oh, I will.

Tell him that I would very much like for him to consider a post afterwards.

You know, he'd be good for NATO, you know, or something like that.

Or something else.

Right.

Fine.

All right.

Fine, Mr. Benton.

Hello?

Mr. President, Dr. Pilsinger had gone away, but we are trying to contact him, and I'll call you as soon as I reach him.

Hmm.

Well, that's not too much trouble.

If you could get him in a half hour, you could call me.

All right.

Yes, please.

Dr. Kissinger, please.

Thank you.

Hello.

Dr. Kissinger on the line, Mr. President.

Hello.

I wanted to wish you a happy birthday.

Oh, thanks, Henry.

Thank you.

How's the weather?

Any better?

Yes, it's warming up now.

I hope so, yeah.

And it's... Is the sun shining or is it foggy?

The sun is shining.

That's good.

Very pleasant.

Well, let's see.

It's 10 o'clock out there, so it ought to be... You ought to have a very good day.

Good.

What I was calling you about is about...

the announcement on Wednesday.

I thought it might be... Is it Wednesday or Thursday?

Well, it's the 12th.

I don't know.

I thought it was the 13th, but it makes no difference.

Well, it doesn't make any difference.

We'll see.

I'll have to check here to see how it fits with that, or we'll do it one of the two days, the 12th or 13th, but any of them.

It occurs to me that it might be well to...

so that I don't want to be questioned at all.

But on the other hand, the defense always gives a little briefing on those things, don't they?

Yes.

Why would it not be to have Laird come over, and then I just walk out with him and say, I'm announcing this, and the secretary will brief the press on the details.

It lets him get in the show a little bit, the act.

He'll be doing it anyway, and...

I'll talk to him about what he shouldn't and shouldn't say.

Do you think that's a good idea?

I see no problem with that.

Yeah.

He'll probably like it.

Well, it gives him a little, you know, some credit for his Vietnamization policies.

All he has to be sure he's on the right track with regard to any questions about POWs and so forth, which he usually has handled those well, though.

Yeah.

And that sounds like a good idea to you.

That sounds like a good idea.

Second point.

I don't have to worry about it taking credit.

Oh, well, there's no, at this point, I don't think the credit's to... No, I think it's a nice credit.

You see, at this point, on the other hand, it isn't a hell of a lot of difference.

We've moved along, and those efforts have been rather pitiful anyway, you know.

They haven't gotten across, do you think, very well.

No, I think it's a tender... Yeah.

Now, did you get to him first?

Does he know about this announcement yet, the number?

I'm going to be talking to him in a little while.

Fine.

Well, that'll give you...

Right.

Now, when you talk to him, you can talk about this and say, let's hold it, and then the idea that he would go over and that I'll make the announcement in one sentence and then turn the...

press over to him for the briefing on it, and that he would say that we would, you know, you can sort of start with that.

That'll soften him up for the rush thing.

Right.

And then that we, that I think that then just ask him to maybe check with Higg or somebody on our, I don't know, give him a couple of talking points with regard to the negotiation side so that he'll, what about the next announcement, what will be made during the month of April?

May 1st.

Will it be a final announcement where the President pointed out that there can be no final withdrawal until we have settled the POW matter?

What about negotiation?

I'm not going to go beyond what the President's already said.

And, well, what about the withdrawal?

That's the deadline.

Gentlemen, you saw what they said last.

He ought to really make hard that point.

I... Light advantage in doing it on Thursday, that they can't comment on it at the next day, then.

Yeah.

That's fine.

It's all right with me.

Thursday's a good day, then, if that's the case.

Just ream it to them right there.

All right.

And so you can call him.

Now, on the rush thing, I think...

I talked to Mitchell about the run yesterday.

He thinks we ought to go ahead with it.

He does.

And he thinks that Laird's opposition can be overcome.

Well, the point is that this is basically the kind of a man Laird has been looking for.

He just looks at his qualifications, but he has the advantage of knowing all about MBFR and SALT, right?

Oh, yeah.

And that is an enormous advantage for whoever's in that position.

And he knows the Germans.

That's right.

You know, he doesn't know the Defense Department as well.

He's a much superior person.

And you can say that he admires Laird.

You know, I'll give him a little of that.

He's a hard-line follower.

He's what we need.

And he's a good, loyal man.

We've also found that he's been impeccably

discreet and loyal as never really can you might say that to laird that'll impress the hell out of them okay well what else is new do you have any other conversations while i was gone we have uh one uh the question is muji is coming going back to delhi and to dhaka today yeah and the question is whether any of our diplomats should be at the airport

I've told him to check with Islamabad to find out.

I don't see that we can make a hell of a lot of points at this point.

Well, I don't know what...

He's been released by...

He's been released by Butoh.

But he is... Is Butoh... You know, that's the other thing, I suppose, that whatever we do with regard to...

the bangladesh that pretty much will resolve itself if the pacts uh recognize it won't it yeah if the pacts recognize it then we are home free yeah and that's what i think they're going to do and that's what i suspect they're going to do yeah but what about as far as muji was concerned uh what would be the what would be the point in going there going to read it to he's not uh well because i the presumption is that every other diplomat in delhi and

uh one possibility is that instead of the ambassador the political counselor goes to the airport so that we are represented yeah well it doesn't cost us anything let the counselor go but i wouldn't until until he otherwise you're giving them de facto recognition that's one of the problems and of course the chinese and now that we've paid already this heavy price yeah well i don't want to fall over right away that's the point

We'll eventually have to go that way.

We know that.

No question about it.

But I don't think we need to fall all over him right at the beginning.

We have to go this way, and he will have to come our way.

Yeah.

And if, of course, the Pakistanis recognize it, that doesn't matter.

That's right.

but if we could hold it until we've been in china in only four more weeks why don't we just let the political counselor go i mean we want to do it at the highest level because after all he is not yet a government we recognize that's the point i think uh

That would be my reaction, but I don't feel too damn strong about it.

I don't think it's going to make that much difference.

Except in a negative way.

In a positive way, we can't get to any points.

Yeah, yeah, I'm...

Okay, and nothing else, no other reports from Haig?

He's probably on his way back now.

He's out of contact because in Hangzhou, he had to go down by train to Hangzhou because they are rebuilding the airport.

And so he's out of communications now until he leaves tomorrow morning.

Mm-hmm.

In fact, at least tonight our time.

Sure.

He gets back Monday or Tuesday, doesn't he?

He's coming back Monday afternoon.

Boy, he'll be tired.

Oh, that's a killer.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a real killer.

Yeah.

Do it in one job.

I see nothing else, particularly in the morning papers, that are of interest.

No, I'm glad.

Yeah.

I just looked him over here.

There's the Maltese and the British.

It now looks as if the British are really determined to get out.

Is that right?

And the Italians, that he's really, there's something wrong with that guy.

Yeah, you think so?

I mean, he just is bullheaded to a point where it becomes almost an end in itself.

And we can't let the Russians have a naval base there.

What the hell can we do about it?

Well, we're going to try to see whether NATO will turn it into a NATO base.

The Italians are very concerned.

I see.

And on Tuesday, we're going to see whether we can turn up a NATO offer.

And we've told this to the British, and the British owe us an answer.

I see.

We haven't.

We won't do it without getting their answer.

What the hell?

I can't understand why the British would want to give up any of the balance of their power, wherever it is.

Well, it's turned into a personal contest between Heath and Minter.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Well, that's interesting.

It's pretty hard with all the problems we've got Henry to have to have them all the two, isn't it?

That's right.

Almighty.

The Italian government looks as if it's going to fall, so you'll be spared a trip, a visit by the Italians.

Why is it going to fall?

The Republican Party has withdrawn from the coalition, and that's going to bring them all down.

Oh, God.

Well, it always happens after a presidential campaign, election day.

Then what do they have to do?

Have parliamentary elections?

No, no.

But they now have a four-week ticker about... Who's going to be the next prime minister?

Right.

I mean, they'll have to... Well, we don't have to see them then, do we?

We have.

We offered them the 25th, but I don't think it lasts until the 25th.

Yeah.

Right.

So I think we may be home free.

Yeah.

And if he falls, it should be around the 18th or 19th.

Yeah.

And then they can't have a government before we leave for P.K.

Right.

Well, that's fine.

Okay.

Right.

Well, I hope you get a little sun and get everybody gone.

It ought to be peaceful out there.

Right.

Well, we're all working on the end.

Okay.

Bye.

I hope you have a pleasant day.

Thank you.

Yes, please.

Colson, please.

Thank you, sir.

Immediately, of course, he reacted to your space shuttle announcement by saying it was a boondoggle.

And, of course, then went to Florida, where it's one of the most popular things in the Cape Kennedy area.

What do they think down there?

What press?

You mean the Florida Press?

Of course, it's Florida and California.

This is a big deal.

It'll save the aerospace industry, you know?

It puts the Democrats in a hell of a spot.

It's a little bit like the SST.

Well, there you are with this base thing.

I don't think the country really is for it.

No.

And I don't think the country is for the SST.

They didn't understand.

But on the other hand, the country isn't going to vote against a candidate for being for him, and yet individual areas damn well will.

That's right.

According to one TV report last night, Muskie Mays,

blown his chances in Florida completely because, of course, that's a very... You take that whole Orlando complex and then Cape Kennedy.

And that was really a very dumb thing because I think he could have ducked that one.

He didn't have to walk into it.

I noticed that McGovern is... Who is it?

Mondale is going to have hearings.

As a matter of fact, we may not get it, you know, which, of course, is...

It's just one of those things that there's not too much spending this year anyway, but the point is that we've made our effort on it, and that's it.

Well, it's symbolic, and I'm delighted he did it because it is a hell of a big thing in California.

It's a damn big thing in New York.

Connecticut.

Connecticut, that's right.

A number of key states.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, one thing I was thinking about the, you know, the card business.

I'm wondering if that's totally secure.

It can be done in such a way that it is.

From whom?

Who would be doing it?

The Humphrey people?

No, I would think their own friends of Kennedy.

But on the other hand, I would assume, though, that then he would immediately repudiate it, wouldn't he?

Yep.

But at that point, the damage is... Would have to be done awfully late, I would think.

I would think probably about, let's see if the balloting is on the 7th, I would like to see them arrive up there on the 5th.

Well, these people that are interested in it, of course, we have nothing to do with it.

We couldn't stop it if we wanted to, but I just think those things sometimes... Our Democratic friends really play their games rough, don't they?

They sure do.

They sure do, Mr. President.

Well, I'll tell you one thing.

It was quite a battle, but it's really worth getting rid of that tax credit, isn't it?

The check off?

Oh, my God.

You know, when you stop to think what that would have done for these clowns.

That's right.

Just build them out completely.

You know, that kind of money after the primaries, what is it?

would have solidified the party.

One of the reasons that they're going to have the same kind of problems they had in 1968 is that whoever gets the nomination likely is going to have to start from zero on money.

And he's got a big job to come out of Miami and raise the bill needed.

But that would have just handed it to him right on a silver platter.

And it's amazing how well we came out of that one, Mr. President.

Everybody gave us a great victory on it.

I was amazed that we didn't get more of the kind of snide carping from the liberals, keeping the poor old deprived Democrats from getting their funds.

We came out of it, I think, damned well, extremely well.

Pastore is trying now to bring up a new legislation to repeal Section 315, and of course that's worth several million bucks to them.

He failed as part of the campaign reform bill to get it.

And we're going to have another tussle in the Congress next year on the question of whether they repeal it or suspend it.

And if they do, even, of course, obviously you wouldn't debate, but what they would do is make free television time available to the candidates.

If they repeal it, yeah.

If they repeal it.

Which would be for us and for them, but it would help them a lot more.

A hell of a lot more.

We'll just have to keep trying to help maneuver that story, which will be harder this year with increased partisan pressures.

But that's one I want to make a real effort on because that's dumping about $5 million into the kitty.

Sure.

At least.

Well, okay.

We'll see you then.

Well, I hope you have a good birthday today, Mr. President.

I sure will.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Would you get me Miss Woods, please?

Thank you, sir.

Hello.

Miss Woods.

Hi, Rose.

Hi.

How are you today?

Fine.

I just had an idea that I think would be better than the letter to that general's mother.

Do you have his name?

Yes, I have.

Would you just call the White House operator and ask her to get her on the phone for me?

All right.

She probably can call the general.

there for her birthday or something.

Probably, although the address they gave me for her was in Los Angeles.

Oh, rather than Redlands, I see.

Okay.

Well, I think, well, the White House operators, they'll know how to get her, you know, get a hold of the general and say the president wants to talk to his mother on the phone and then tell her to put it through.

I'm in the EOB office.

EOB office.

Uh-huh.

hello mr president on your call to mrs nora moore she's going to be at major general brown's residence in about one hour and i have left word for her to return the call thank you you're welcome sir hello mr president mrs nora e moore now yes thank you more the president is on the line hello hello i just called to wish you a happy birthday

Your son told me, the general told me that you had the same birthday as mine, so I wanted to wish you the very best.

Thank you, and may I say I'm about to faint, and that this is the thrill of my life.

Well, anyway, you can be very proud of him.

He has a great record as a Marine, and we just want you to have many happy returns.

Well, thank you, and the same to you.

You, because it's your birthday.

That's right.

May I just add that I was to quite an affair for our town last night, and you had many supporters there.

Good.

You're going to get a lot of votes from our little town of Yucaipa.

Yucaipa.

Oh, that's a great place.

I've been there.

Yes, it is.

Thank you so much.

Still unspoiled and nice.

Right.

Thank you.

Yucaipa.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

Mr. President?

Yeah.

Julie's calling, sir.

Okay.

Yep.

Ready.

Could you get me Mr. Rebozo, please?

Yes, Mr. President.

Just beautiful.

Yeah.

Mr. Rebozo.

Mrs. Connolly, please.

Hello.

Mrs. Connolly, Mr. President.

Hello.

Mr. President?

Hi, how are you?

Well, I'm fine.

I thought you should know that you must have a sixth sense, because when I opened your birthday present, Rose had given me a photograph, a colored photograph of San Clemente that had been taken by a friend of hers who had been down there, and it was framed, and it fitted perfectly in the stand.

Oh, how wonderful.

So I...

So we put it in our room, and we're all set.

I want to tell you that we enjoyed our day with you so very much.

Wait a minute.

While I have you, I want to tell you, too, that the sweetest letter I believe I ever had was the one you sent down with John on our anniversary.

Well, I knew what a hard time you've been having, and I figured maybe give you a little lift.

Well, you're a very thoughtful man, and you're also fun, and I appreciate it.

Well, anyway, we're going to look forward to that party in the spring.

All right.

And tell Ms. Nixon we're happy she's back.

She looked beautiful on television last night.

Okay.

Thank you.

Bye.

What is your schedule this afternoon?

Yes, please.

Could you get me Flanagan, please?

Yes, sir.

Mr. President?

Yeah.

Mr. Flanagan for you.

Yeah.

There you are.

Yes, sir.

I'm just finishing my talk with Ken Rush, and he's here.

And I've asked him to sit with you and discuss his successor thing.

He's going over to have a talk with Laird tomorrow.

So we're going to rule that along.

We've got to get the successor thing on the track, however, before an indication that he would be leaving, see?

Yes, sir.

So if you would talk with him about the candidates we have,

assuming we have some, or people that we're considering, and then we get a recommendation on the thing.

Yes, sir, I will.

How does it stand at the present time?

We're considering Clements, among others, I guess.

Bill, Clements is our first consideration.

Ingersoll has shown very real interest in Japan.

We got down on Wednesday to talk to Bill Rogers about that.

Right.

But other than Clements, we don't have anyone other than the list I showed you before.

Galvin has turned us down.

Yeah.

So, well, maybe you ought to talk to him about that and see what can...

I would like to have it handled if possible.

Clements is fine with me, but I'd like to have it handled without my having to look into it anymore now.

Yes, sir.

The next thing we'll do is put out a recommendation.

And then get, well, if it's Clements, it's okay.

But I would...

You talk to him about it and see how they, what he feels about it, okay?

Yes, sir, I will.

Thank you.

Nobody has talked to Clemens yet.

So we don't know.

Right.

Thank you.

Yes, please.

Could you get me Dr. Billy Graham, please?

I think he's in Puerto Rico.

Yes, Mr. President.

Thank you.

Sure thing.

Yes, please.

Operator, on that call to Dr. Graham, I just placed...

Yes, Mr. President.

He's not available now.

They're saying he checked out.

I'm double-checking, Mr. President.

Oh, I see.

He did call you up there yesterday morning, didn't he?

Yeah, that's right.

I was returning it.

It may be that he's checked out.

But if you...

I will be out for a while.

All right, sir.

And if you get him around free, I could take it.

All right, I'll get the information, Mr. President, and I'll wait till I hear from you.

Anytime from... Well, you can call me anytime from 3 to 5 o'clock.

From 3 to 5.

Bye, Mr. President.

Could you ring Julie, please?

Yes, Mr. President.

Hello?

I have Julie on the line, sir.

The news coverage this morning I thought was excellent.

Oh, I thought so too.

And I thought the whole thing, though, the trip was very, very good.

And like this one NBC news was saying that she came back with new respect.

There was new respect for the First Lady after this trip.

and won friends, and gee, it was just great.

That's great.

What I was going to tell you is that I was just checking this morning on the news of last week, and your tour of the Cypress thing got a very good play.

It was very helpful, everybody thought, on that environment thing.

And I was thinking, I was talking this morning to Holloman,

that if you could do some more of that sort of thing and maybe you could get into it and maybe mommy ought to do something from time to time because that's the one way we can show great interest in the environment i'd really love to and daddy i want to tell you something if now that you have just a minute sure i got plenty of time my analysis of the situation is that dave parker needs more help because like we have more time but he doesn't seem he doesn't have enough

I mean, he can't, he's having a very hard time finding events, and maybe this is just because there aren't, we have to be awful careful getting events, I agree.

I agree.

But maybe he needs more help, because like, Tricia wants to do things too, and I think he's getting too many.

All right.

I'll see that that's done.

You might look into it, or it might be just that there aren't that many events and they're trying to pick them carefully, which is hard.

Well, we'll see, but we'll get some good ones.

But I thought I would mention it.

I'm glad you did, and I'll talk to them about it.

Because we like to do those trips.

And, you know, I wanted to tell you, too, as long as you're on the line, I thought Morton was terrific.

I'm glad to hear that.

And he really handled the press well, and he spoke well and intelligently.

and yet friendly so that they kind of liked him and he was casual and, you know.

Nat Reid also.

Who?

Nat Reid.

I don't know him, but he's in the department, too, and he's very good.

Well, that's good.

So I enjoyed the trip.

It was really interesting.

Good.

Well, that's great, and we do appreciate what you do.

Please.

Secretary Connolly, please.

Thank you.

Hello.

Secretary Connolly, sir.

Mr. President.

Hi, John.

How are you, sir?

How are you?

I hope I'm not interrupting you.

No, sir.

I'm just meeting with my staff.

I just stepped out.

We're just talking about how we...

how we reconstitute ourselves, what ideas we can give you to solve some of the problems this country faces.

I don't know that we're going to come up with anything.

You've been doing pretty good so far.

I hope you will ask Ms. Nixon to forgive us for not being out there last night.

Oh, goodness, you shouldn't have.

Well, they did not stop us all day, and then we were coming, and it was such bad weather, it fell down in my back, and I just thought we wouldn't do it, and I didn't realize it was going to be... Not on your life.

Will you please ask her to forgive us?

No, no, no.

We didn't expect people to come, John.

Well, we felt real bad when we... You know what I mean?

Just a few were able to come anyway, but it was just great.

Let me ask you one question, and I won't bother you long.

I'm working in the State of the Union this week, you know, and I just talked to John Ehrlichman before noon.

He said that he'd talk to you briefly about his plan on value-added and so forth, and that he felt that you felt that it was all right to handle it on this basis of sort of trial ballooning.

In other words, that what we would do in order to preempt the issue, as I understand it, that I would try to meet

this week with McElroy, you and I and Richardson would meet with McElroy, that we would have the Intergovernmental Committee chaired by the Vice President, I think, that he'd get them together.

first of next week and so forth before the State of the Union, and you'd be present in Richardson again and vote the idea there with them and ask them to think about it.

Right.

In the State of the Union, I would just refer to the idea and say that this is a problem of grave concern and that I've taken these steps and consultations and have directed the Secretary of the Treasury

give me a recommendation, so forth and so on.

Now, that would leave us, as I understand it, in a position to either go or stop three or four months from now.

Does that sound all right to you?

I think it sounds like a very plausible and intelligent way to handle it.

Because I just don't think, Mr. President, you want to go up with any kind of legislation right now that ties you down without any accruing benefits.

I think it's an issue.

You can capture the issue.

You can talk about it in general terms and get all of the value and none of the disadvantages because you don't tie yourself down to specifics.

And I would sure let them float it.

I think the Vice President's idea of doing it through that advisory council and their government relations is a damn good one.

now we will uh we will use your name in it but uh but then you at some time will just say well yes i'm studying it and my people are studying it and it's a very something has to be done but we don't want to we another thing argument i think john you should make everybody

is to say, look, we have a very practical thing, and that you and the president talk about this, and that we don't want to send down to that committee with all it has on its plate a piece of legislation that is for pure political reasons.

We know they're not ready for it yet, and we want to think about it more, and they get a chance to think about it and then send it down.

Doesn't that make sense to you?

Yes, sir.

Because Wilbur is going to have his own revenue sharing.

He's got to have health.

He's got to have the gold bill.

you've got all these things that and I think that's a good reason for so now in terms of the State of the Union itself then that really doesn't isn't going to leave us too much in the way of something really quite new

Now, I wonder what you feel, whether that probably isn't all right, in a sense.

Yes.

Or tell me what you think.

I've been having them try to scrub up something, but I haven't seen anything that's worth a damn.

I don't think, if you can't have something with real substance and real meat in it, I wouldn't try to.

I would just, in general terms, I hadn't thought in terms of language, but talk about this as a period of...

of consolidation.

We've undertaken great changes in the domestic economic front, the international economic front, the international diplomatic front, and frankly, this is going to be a year of expansion and consolidation.

And we can ask the Congress now to act on those things that we already presented before.

Reorganization of health and welfare.

In a sense, with welfare reform, health, government reorganization, revenue sharing,

we have everything there already that is needed, you see.

Not to mention, of course, the cleaning up of the international monetary thing.

So I really think that we say now, here it is, Congress, and there really isn't... Also, another thing that concerns me is that

We mustn't create the impression that there's a bold new scheme to solve every problem.

There really isn't, is there?

No, there isn't.

No, and I think you've taken it.

I think you have to lend credence to what you've been saying, that you've taken bold steps in the international field, winding down the war, the trip to Moscow, China, the International Monetary Front, the international economic...

as well as the domestic economic front, you have to take the position that you've taken these steps.

But now it's a question of cleaning up your plate, in effect, before in the Congress and of stabilizing and making the initiatives function that you've already announced.

And that this is a period of expansion and consolidation and whatever other words we can come up with.

Well, as soon as I...

I'll get something by Thursday or Friday.

I'd like to have you take a look.

The language is as important as anything else.

Is what you have in your back a muscle spasm?

Yes, sir.

It's just...

Ever had it before?

Not particularly, no.

I used to.

I always have.

You wouldn't, when Ryland comes down on Wednesday, you wouldn't like for him to take a little...

He's this great osteopath.

You know, I use him every week.

Want to take a crack at it?

Well, I sure do if I've still got it.

Well, no, no, no.

The point is, do it if you don't have it even, because what it is, is this is the best Rockefeller user that my user, Mitchell, does, and he is the great one in the country.

He's an MD, too.

All right.

You bet.

And so is the Chief Justice.

Well, that's great.

I'll be in good company anyway.

That's right.

Okay.

I'll have him call you and make an appointment.

That would be wonderful.

Thank you.

Yes, please.

The Vice President, please.

Yes, sir.

Hello?

Mr. President, the Vice President's en route to New York.

Could I have him call you when he arrives?

Sure, sure, no hurry.

All right.

Just when it's convenient.

Yes, thank you.

Secretary Morton, please.

Thank you.

Hello?

I thought you should know that my daughter Julie was talking to me on the phone today, and she said, you know, I want you to tell Secretary Martin how impressed I was by him.

He said he's articulate, he's friendly, he's very good with the press, and people like him.

Well, didn't she not?

Took her on a terrible trip, Mr. President.

Waded her right into the swamp.

She thought it was great, and I think it's a very good way for her to show the interest in that.

And then at a later point, of course, after I get through with my China trip, I've got to do something in this field.

That's right.

I told Ehrlichman and Holloman to get busy today that I was thinking maybe I'd take a two-day trip of some sort where we do not just like maybe not only a park like Yellowstone, but something in the way of the other environmental stuff.

Oh, yeah, I think we ought to do something other than parks.

Well, I've got a Yellowstone, I suppose, for Hunter's anniversary, but I've done parks.

But I think if you get maybe you and Russ Train, and if you might, you, Russ Train, and...

and his group.

Maybe you just sort of follow up on this, will you, with Russ and Jean and the rest and all get together.

I can't do anything, Raj, now between on the time you came to China, because I'm now writing State of the Union, and then I've got to get budget and all that crap out.

But then in April and May, it'll be a nice time, Sue.

We want to rile it in with good, active stuff.

Oh, yeah.

We can do that for you and make it even.

Mr. President, the Roosevelt family called me, Theodore Roosevelt III, and they sent, I've sent it over to Rosemary, and you might want to take a look.

It's an original letter from the Empress of China to President Roosevelt expressing her great feeling about the relationship between the people of China and the people of the United States.

And the family told me, they called me and said they would like to make it available to you and give it to you if you wanted to give it, take it with you and give it to them.

Well, that's really something.

Probably worth about $50,000, I guess.

Give it to them.

Maybe we should put it in the presidential library.

Yeah, I think so.

Well, it's part of their library.

It's part of their library.

Maybe it would be a good idea.

That's a very good idea.

Rosemary has the dope on it, so if you want me to follow through, I'll get it all arranged.

Good deal.

Fine, fine.

Right on.

Okay, you're doing all right otherwise.

Yes, sir.

It was great.

You're behaving.

I had no choice.

Okay, no choice.

Yes, sir.

I'll talk to Dr. Graham.

Oh, thank you, Mr. President.

Hello.

I have Dr. Graham now, sir.

Hello.

Hello, Billy, you still in Puerto Rico?

No, sir, I'm at Caneo Bay now in the Virgin Islands.

Oh, say, my golly, you are a hard fellow to keep up with.

How are you?

I'm just fine, and I got your message from yesterday, and Pat got back, and she looked great after her long journey, and I...

Hello.

And I passed on your message to her when she was most gratified.

Well, she was really great over there.

She was just wonderful.

Well, it was a... She's a...

I think trips like that are a great deal of... Hello.

Go ahead.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

Hello.

Hello?

Go ahead now.

Yeah, I can hear.

I hope you had a nice birthday.

I don't like to think about it, but I did all right.

Yeah, they had a nice party out at the airport and everything.

I just got the New York Times, and I was just reading about it.

Yeah, and we had a very, very good... Actually, you know, she got a great reception in Liberia and the other places, too, I understand.

The show has worked out fine.

Well, it was really wonderful, and I deeply appreciate you letting me go.

Well, I would just think it's a little hard on you, but we appreciate it.

It was great.

I had a great time with her and with her staff.

I'm going to.

We're checking out to see whether Talbert is coming to the prayer breakfast or wants to, and if he does, I'll give a dinner for him while he's here.

So that would be a way to return it, you see.

Well, I think so.

He's very interested in that, as I understand.

He talked to her about coming to the prayer breakfast on February the 1st.

Well, I think... Hello?

Hello?

It's Keneal Bay, and it's off, I think.

Somebody checks in and out.

Operator, I got cut off from Mr. Graham.

It's a and I guess it's a bad connection.

Would you try him again, please?

Yes, I certainly will, Mr. President.

Yeah.

I have Dr. Graham now, sir.

I'm sorry that happened.

It's all right.

Yeah, that connection with as you know.

Telephone people working on this.

That's all right.

It is always difficult.

But all I just wanted to be sure is that you felt a good idea for to come in the event that

He comes to prayer breakfast, and I just have a little dinner, have a dinner for him that night, you see.

Well, that'll be just fine, but I don't think you have to do that if you don't want to this early, maybe next summer sometime.

Well, my point was it might be easier to do it now in that connection and not have it too long a visit, see?

Right.

Because it's a small country.

I don't think you ought to have a state visit for him.

No, not at this point, no.

No, we can't have any this year because of our other heavy commitments.

But all right, I've got your message.

I don't think you need to worry about that at all.

Right, right.

And anything I can do for you, have somebody call me.

I will.

Incidentally, there's a very good piece Bob Haldeman brought over in time this week on the trip.

You'll want to pick it up.

Oh, good.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now you enjoy that wonderful place, will you?

Thank you, sir.

And thank you for calling.

Give my best to Ruth.

All right.

Bye.

Peace.

Price, please.

Hello.

Hi, Ray.

Hope you caught up in your sleep.

I did think you've done a lot of fine work here.

But I thought I'd just let you have your head for a while and then we'll come back.

How's it stand now?

Well, I'm still working on it.

I'm still having trouble with it.

I didn't quite get

Couldn't quite get back in gear yesterday, except for some headway.

And I still like that basic theme that I was developing there.

Yeah, that theme, I think, is a good one.

I think I read the first draft, of course.

I'd read it before, and I think it's a lot of things.

I think we're going to have our usual problem on length, and it may be that we can make considerable cuts by referring to the opus, and that we...

almost sentence by sentence we need a program for guard agriculture and i have set it forth we need a program with regard to the elderly and i set it forth we need a program with regard to you know what i mean i mean it's laundry list but uh maybe that's about the way to do it but uh the theme it seems that my recollection is that on such things if you get one one theme that

that is caught, you know, that catches on, and that maybe that's as much as it can come out of such a speech at this point.

Isn't that what you feel, is that you're trying to get a sort of a central theme that will last?

One that will last and that will, I think, be... A basis for our... A tune to the mood and that...

and that plays into the campaign.

Yes, yes.

And so we're running against the 60s, and yet at the same time reaching back to the old principles, which are very important to the conservatives.

I'm not sure that the...

It may be that the theme...

It's hard to know quite how to put it, whether it should be, I mean, you could do it one of two ways.

You could state it at the beginning and then try to put everything, put the laundry list and all in relation to the theme.

Or you could go through the, you know, what is left.

It seems to me that I was talking to Connolly a few minutes ago and we are, you know, we're going to, we're not going to advance the,

value added as a finished program we're going to say we're looking into it and you know and the the committee on uh government or government intergovernmental relations and the uh the school committee and the rest and so forth and so on and we asked the cooperation of the congress in this historic venture so i said to john i said you realize john we're not really going to have anything strikingly new and i said

What do you think of that?

He said, well, he said, that's probably all right.

He said, we've got to remember that we have an awful lot on the plate.

We have a lot to digest and that we should say this is a time for consolidation, for moving forward and not to come in with some new shocker.

Also, there's the realistic point that in terms of the Congress, the Congress simply doesn't have any room to do anything more at this point.

And it's an empty gesture and totally political to throw it up and say, I asked the Congress this year to enact, to have tax reform.

Well, I'm just using that as an example.

When the Congress has government reorganization, it has revenue sharing, it has welfare reform, it has programs for the environment agent, and it has whatever else we've got there.

Now that...

I don't know.

That's at least his feeling, and it was mine, too.

I may have led him into it, but he has put a very good political judgment, and he did not feel, in other words, that it was fatal to the speech not to have a new striking initiative, you see.

So...

There's where we are.

I think we have a strong case, and now is the time to act on all the proposals that are before them.

Yes, we have proposed that 1971 and 72 were years of, 70 and 71 were years of proposal.

This is the year for acting on those proposals.

and that I and say it with very good grace not in anger or bully wagging the congress but that I realize the congress has great responsibilities I realize it's an election year I realize it's difficult but let us in those areas where we can put partisanship aside and the best politics is do what is best for the country and what is best for the country is

The best politics is always to do what is best for the country.

And there's, if we fail to act, that we will be held responsible.

And that if we do act, there will be credit enough for everybody.

And that this is, we cannot get this through without the cooperation of Democrats as well as Republicans.

And these are areas which I think are above politics that require, in which we can act together.

just as the Congress acted with high statesmanship on our economic program and on the international program, our international monetary is going to act, we trust.

So we'll act on this one.

But coming back to it, let me say I'm working on a lot of doodads anyway.

Do you want to just take another, what would you like to do, take another day?

I'd like to if I could.

All right, fine.

What I'd like to do, I'd like to perhaps go to Camp David tomorrow after I finish my main round, say 3 o'clock or so, and then spend the night and the day there sort of getting stuff done.

How does that sound to you?

Does that give you a time to get something pulled together?

Or before you leave for Camp David?

Yeah, I meant tomorrow, say, around, say, around, I was thinking around, oh, say, 3 o'clock.

That's when I'd have to leave.

I mean, I would plan to leave so that I could get in a full evening's work.

And does that sound like a reasonable...

Yes, it does.

And then pull together what you think you can and...

And we're trying to get down to the hard stuff.

Good.

All right.

I think this two-track thing can work very well, too.

Having a long written message, which you can put a lot of things in that you wouldn't get into a state of the engine.

That's right.

And it leaves a lot of freedom here to make this a short speed.

We can talk about that.

We might even have one long paragraph.

I have covered the problem of Indian affairs, the relations of our Indians with the environment, you know what I mean, all of them being important.

I know the reason you have to put, I saw that you had a fairly long section on agriculture and a long section on the aging.

Which would have to be shortened.

I understand that, but I think that we could shorten them both and still make them powerful and say that the...

But the two-track thing at least is new, and it's a way states of the Union should be done in the future.

It seems to me.

All right, shall we, why don't you try, we'll say 3 o'clock tomorrow.

All right, sure.

Fine.

Yeah.

The Vice President is present.

Yeah.

Hello.

I just wanted to call you to tell you that I opened the present, and I'm delighted to have that razor, and I will now not blame the TV when I have the 5 o'clock shadow.

Well, it's a razor that I was just astounded with.

I received it as a Christmas present.

I never use an electric razor except...

I don't either.

I only use it to sort of shape up.

But I'll tell you honestly, Mr. President, this thing shaves as well as any blade razor I've ever seen.

Does it really?

Try.

I think you'll find it's outstanding.

I really...

At least for a touch-up.

It's fine, and it's about like we thought you'd just handle that very, very gracefully last night, and I'm very grateful.

I was glad to have a chance to welcome Mrs. Nixon.

That's right.

What I called you about, sir, before was, you remember my talking to you about my concern about the whole problem of secret documents.

Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'd like very much to, if I could have a few minutes with you, maybe...

Friday or Thursday or Friday or sometime to go over a couple of ideas I have with you on that.

Yeah, okay.

By that time we'll have a chance to sort of see it in perspective too, perhaps.

This is not specifically about the one incident.

This is an idea I have about

a potential way of correcting this whole problem of recurrences in this area it basically goes to the uh the situation that the courts have said that they are not

qualified themselves to judge what may be harmful to the national security.

Yeah.

And I'm thinking specifically about a tactic involving some possible bipartisan legislation that might close this off in the future, and I'd just like to talk to you briefly about that.

Fine.

Okay.

If you'd let me know of any time.

It'll only take about 15 minutes.

Fine.

I think Thursday would be fine.

I have to be writing on the State of the Union on Friday, so I'll have them get in touch with your office and work it out.

Fair enough?

Very much.

Fine.

Yes, please.

Laird, please.

Yes, Mr. President.

Hello.

Secretary Laird, sir.

Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

Hi, Mel.

How are you?

Fine.

Fine, fine.

I had a good talk with Rush, and he said

And I think you will find that in terms of our immediate problems and so forth, if he can work out the conflict of interest thing, that he would work very well.

Well, he'll be excellent.

Here's the point.

There are two or three things that I don't want to talk about in any large forum that I particularly was in.

First of all,

He knows MBFR, which of course is an area where you've got to fight like hell, you know, to drag your feet.

He knows SALT due to where he's been.

where he also will represent a very strong point of view.

And third, he is a man who knows the government.

In other words, he knows how to operate.

He's a man, having worked with you in Europe on two or three things,

great great respect for you and he says he just wants to be a team player and he has no ambition to do anything more which is another good thing and I I really feel that I want you to have a very good talk with him and and if we feel that he could do it and if you can work up the I think Mitchell of course is the expert in conflict of interest he thinks he can he and Mitchell have been

friends in New York for years.

As you know, or as probably you maybe don't know, he has the business background because he was the Chief Executive Officer of Union Carbide, so he knows the business types extremely well.

What he does not know, of course,

is the intricacies of procurement and all that sort of thing, but there you'd have to rely on Mood and your service secretaries, in other words, the team you've already gotten, which actually is what anybody else would have to do.

Well, we've got a good man in Mood, and he'll be very helpful, too.

Right.

I really am very delighted.

You know, I talked earlier with your people over there in the White House about either Porter or Rush Beck seven or eight months ago.

Yeah.

And I kind of got shot down on it.

Well, I think the reason that they shot down Rush was that then we had the German thing.

I'm sure they couldn't spare him.

But now, the German thing, he's done everything he can in Germany.

We've got to find a good man.

And he's been a terrific combatant.

Well, hasn't he been?

But he told me, I said, because I don't want to.

I don't want to have any situation where in a position that important working with you, you've got some guy you think is not compatible.

He said that, and correct me when he said that he had a totally good relationship with you.

And that's what he said.

So if you feel the same way, then I think we can go on it.

But you have a good talk with him tomorrow.

I will.

And I thought it would be all right with you, Mr. President, I'd have him talk.

I asked Dave to stay over and spend a little time with him tomorrow, too.

I thought it would be well for him to talk to Dave.

Oh, of course, of course, to the extent that Dave would be willing.

And so he knows what to do and so forth and so on.

But I think you'll find him totally smart, too, you know.

Well, I like him very much.

I like his wife.

Barbara and I have gotten to know both of them, and we like them very much.

I've only met his wife once, but she seemed to be very nice.

Yes, she's a very good gal.

And when Mitchell checked it out with him, he just asked whether he would be available

Well, Rush says, well, to be perfectly frank with you, he says, I'd a hell of a lot rather stay in Bonn than to be in Washington.

But he says, I will also have to say that my wife would much rather be in Washington than be in Bonn.

So that would be a... Well, that's a fine solution, Mr. President.

I was only trying to get somebody.

I'll tell you, you really need the help over here.

I know, I know.

And another thing, too, he told me that you had mentioned to him that you wanted to take somebody there so you wouldn't have to

keep their nose to the grindstone and I'm all for that too because you've been you haven't gotten away and with him you're you have a man who's totally trustworthy who would not who would not make a mistake you know what I mean he's just too damn smart I mean he's a lawyer of course without and very cautious in that respect and he isn't going to go running off

you know, run off the track.

So I think you take a look.

He's seeing you tomorrow, I understand.

Yes, he's coming in here at 4 o'clock.

That's what I asked him to do.

And so you can talk very frankly with him and straight from the shoulder.

He's that kind of a guy.

And if you can close the deal, fine.

On the conflict of interest thing, you can check with Mitchell to see.

Well, you're people to know, too.

But I think Rush is willing to sell whatever he has.

That's too bad.

You know, I wish we could get that capital gains thing fixed so that they wouldn't have to pay capital gains on this for sale.

That's the only problem.

I don't think, Mel, that Rush, well, maybe this is a bigger problem.

He doesn't have a hell of a lot of money.

But on the other hand, I suppose it's harder for him to lose it than a fellow like Packard.

While a guy like Packard loses more, it hurts him less.

But when a guy's got, say, maybe, well, it sounds like a lot to me, but maybe he's only got $2 or $3 million, it hurts him a lot more to lose a quarter of it than when he's got $300 million.

You know, I went through his holdings with him when I talked to him back, oh, this was several months ago.

I talked to him.

He's got 42,000 shares of Union Carbide.

I've got the list of his shares.

I see.

what do you think you think you can work them out yeah if we could get if i can get stennis to agree to give them six months that would help them an awful lot oh i said can you well you might be able to do that i think i could i'm going to try there sure isn't uh does union carbide uh that i wouldn't think that's a big defense contractors with them all of our batteries and all of our tanks we've got all sorts of business with them so that would be uh yeah and um

Our contractors are big with them.

I see.

Well, that's...

But we'll work that out, Mr. President.

You shouldn't have to worry about that.

If we can get them to come aboard.

Now, the other thing is this that I wanted to talk to you about.

I understand Henry's talked to you, but I wanted to do it directly in terms of the

On this withdrawal thing, Mel, I think we've got to go just a little above what we've done previously, and I know it's a tough time, but it seems to me that the 70,000 number and the way I was thinking I wanted to do it was that I would just announce 70,000

uh by may 1st and then have you brief on it you see at the view and my tentative thinking was to do it thursday at the white house so that you catch the 11 o'clock my feeling is that 70 000 is about a thousand to fifteen hundred

above the other number but then in april then we have to make we have to make the fisher cut date statement depending upon that but uh uh i i didn't talk to henry but i got i understand that you've had some doubts about whether we go that high i i

I always wonder whether we can go at high at all, because I know they're mounting, you know, they've got all these new people and everything there.

But the way things are now, there isn't a hell of a lot that that many can do anyway.

No, we can do it.

But can you handle the 70?

We can handle it.

And also, I think it would put us in a very bad position, because both you and I have indicated that the atomization is working, that we're able to

go up a little.

What is 70,000?

That would be three and a what?

That's 20... Well, it's about 20...

It's less than 25.

It's 23.

23.

And our number before, it's 23 and a half.

So we're up 1,000.

About 1,000 a month more or something.

And that's a damn good number.

That's down to 69.

And then April 15th, we will take another look.

We're going to have some, I think, in the briefing, when I get in, I think I should...

The people know that they're going to, South Vietnamese are going to take a few bumps in the next...

Yes.

I think you could, when you come over, that we'll talk a little about it, too, and then you can give me an indication.

But what I had in mind was that you would indicate that there will be, that present indications are that the North Vietnamese are

are, as is the custom at this time of year, building up for their usual Tet Offensive.

But this year, the South Vietnamese are going to have to meet the responsibility of meeting that offensive.

That is, that they will also launch an offensive in Cambodia, just as they have already launched one in Laos.

and that our efforts in this respect will be concentrated by the use of our air, that we will continue to, you know what I mean, but I think you should prepare for that.

But on the other hand,

I think it's very important to give, as the Congress comes back, and with all the possibility of resolutions and with deadlines and the rest, to give a feeling of confidence.

I can do that.

Because, goddammit, we've done a hell of a job here, as you well know.

And this Vietnamization program, nobody thought we'd be this far along.

And if they come back to say, well, why did you have the airstrike?

We can certainly see why now, can't we?

Yeah.

Well, I am confident, and I have no problems at all on that, Mr. President.

I'm sure the North Vietnamese will try one or two spectaculars, but that's all.

And I think you should say that.

We should expect them, and that all battles are not won, but that the South Vietnamese will prevail.

They are now strong enough to defend themselves, you should say.

On the other hand, as you well know,

What happens in Laos and Cambodia is a tough one.

Well, it's important and also questionable.

But let's just hope to God that I would think, I don't know what you think, that what the South Vietnamese can do in the Cambodian area should be able to keep that from going under.

Would you not think so or not?

Yes, I do.

Laos is another thing.

Laos is pretty tough.

You know, we put 2,000 tons of B-52s in there in the last two weeks of bombs.

And I'm not sure... Did any good?

I'm not sure, Mr. President.

I hope it did, but, you know, I'm... Where did they land?

I don't know.

They must have... We're bombing.

We can't get the reports from our pilots, and I'm trying to get reports from...

But you have to get that up and out.

Isn't the reason that we just don't have people around that can see it?

Right.

And I suppose they've got them well camouflaged, controlled, and so forth.

The psychological impact of that must be worth something.

2,000.

Jesus, that's a lot of stuff.

Jesus.

Those are just P-52s in Alaska.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

well okay if we'll uh my feeling now my feeling is that we will uh i told warren today to just say we would have another announcement before the end of the month that's why i'm leaving it but for your information that i think if you could come over let's figure it for the 11 o'clock briefing here

which mean that you and i should get together say 10 30 all right and we'll have a meeting and then i will walk out with you and make a one sentence statement that we are we are reducing to 69 000 ceiling by may 1st and that the

and that the Secretary of Defense will brief you now on the details, and I'll walk out and then let you do the thing.

See, the reason I don't want to do it, one reason is that I've got to be in a position to say something on the diplomatic front maybe in the near future, and I don't want to be in, I don't want to talk about the,

prisoners for deadline, all that sort of thing, which you can handle.

You've been handling it, and I think you can handle it again.

Does that sound all right to you as a game plan?

Right.

Now, we'll do this live.

Not live, but we'll do it taped for television.

Right.

So it'll be a...

a way to get our story off on Thursday.

All right.

Okay.

I hope Rush works out.

Oh, I'm sure he'll work out.

There's one thing that I hope that John Mitchell and I sometime can sit out and visit with you about the political problem that might come up.

On this other matter that I've been talking with the Attorney General about, we've got to have a game plan on that, Mr. President.

You mean this leak?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's something...

I guess the fellow they think did it is gone now, but we don't know how far along.

But that just bothers me knowing the kind of things that we're going through.

A hell of a thing, yeah.

You can imagine sort of the pain it causes us because of me because I, you know, it's really unconscionable.

But we can't do anything because you can't blow that, we can't hurt the chiefs.

That's the point, you know what I mean?

Oh, I understand.

It'd be a terrible thing.

I mean, what we did, Mel, here, I think is just inherit a situation that

that they just continued.

They'd been doing it with the previous administration.

They just continued with this one.

Don't you think that's it?

Yeah, well, and they got a little, they carried a little further in the last 10 months today since this Wellander adenal was over there.

Wellander?

I don't know him.

They've gone a little too far.

But you and John and I will have a talk about it at some point.

In the meantime, if you could prepare your Q&A and discuss it with me at 1030 so that

we can say you discussed to him, you know, and all that sort of thing.

And then the toughest one is the prisoner for deadline, in one sense, but in another sense not, because the North Vietnamese...

have withdrawn.

I mean, they have flatly said that they will accept nothing.

No, I think that was taken care of last week.

But I think you should emphasize that point.

Sure.

Emphasize the point that not only last week, but back in October, when that screwball McGovern was over there, the next day in their conference, they said, no, you've got to overthrow Q and stop the bombing and stop all aid to South Vietnam.

which is an entirely different thing than prisoners for deadline.

Well, every time I've gone to NATO, I've met with Porter and before that with the other representatives, and I've followed that closely, and that record is very clear.

So I don't think I have to back away from that one bit.

All right.

Well, we'll see you Thursday at 10.30 then, unless something comes up.

All right.

Thank you.

Yes, please.

Senator Dole, please.

Thank you, sir.

Operator?

Yeah.

Could I get Herb Klein, please?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Mr. Klein is on, sir.

Hello, Herb.

Yes, how are you, sir?

I didn't get to see your program, but from the news summary, I thought you did a fine job.

Well, thank you very much.

They really put you on the spot on that thing, but the only thing we could do is to really basically brazen it through, because it's really a question of pretty much semantics.

I mean, whether you're anti-Indian or so forth, it isn't nobody's anti-Indian.

The real question is we can disagree with a country's policy without being anti.

We were just anti-war.

That was really the point, and I think you made that very well.

Yeah, and I illustrated it with Japan and Canada.

It's two good illustrations where we disagreed on some policies, but we said we were pro-Japan, pro-Canada.

We tried, and we're still going to help India, and we're pouring in.

God, you know, when you think of the hundreds of millions we give to the damn country, they're anti-American.

That's what it really gets down to.

But on the end...

They have emotions involved in this country over a lot of years.

Yeah.

With regard to...

India, you say?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, they have, but let me say that there are emotions that run both ways.

There are a hell of a lot of people that don't.

Yeah, that's true.

You don't care that much, you get up in that Senate, you know, and you have to fight for Indian aid every damn year.

A lot of them would like to cut it right to the bone, as Everett Jordan indicated yesterday, you know.

Yes.

And that's not a, I've had, for years when I was vice president, I had to, you know, pull people in line for the damn thing.

Because, you know, they'd vote against us in the U.N., they'd do every possible thing, and then we'd have... And they played with Moscow a lot, even those years.

Always.

Well, they basically played their own non-aligned game and so forth.

And then I think the fact that you just used the line that Henry had been libeled was a good idea.

I mean, after all, there was no deliberate...

I mean, they say that he lied when he said we were anti...

that we were not anti-Indian.

Hell, we weren't anti-Indian.

We were anti their policies.

Isn't that really the point you made?

Yes, sir.

That's the exact point.

And that, you know, in this occasion, and that also made the point that if they really believed that, how could they argue against the fact that Henry was the most desired of all briefers?

You know, all the newsmen wanted briefings with him more than anyone else other than you.

That's right.

And he's been...

as facts will show well i thought it would sort of boost his spirit up a little bit too that way yeah well i frankly i think it was good that you did it and it's hard to boost his spiritually he sees everything in such personal terms he thinks his credibility is destroyed and you know how he speaks in melodramatic terms but uh and his credibility is not destroyed what do you think i mean i don't think at all because you're an expert on it i i think it's uh

What you might do, if you would, is to, in a couple of hours, just on your own, give him a call in California and say you'd had this program.

I don't know whether he saw it or not.

and that you you feel that this whole business that you he must not just read the new york times and the washington post and figure that because of what some of them said in the news magazines and so forth that but that on balance that most of the press corps is totally a

totally against the Anderson thesis.

I think that's true.

That's what it is.

Would you agree or not?

No, I would agree.

And that basically when they say, talk about Henry's credibility, they're really, more than anything else, they're really trying to nip at us, let's face it.

Well, that's, I think, the whole thesis, you know, which you see developing among the Democrats are trying to make credibility an issue.

Right.

And I think Henry used to serve cotton.

Thank God it's on the issue of India and not on the issue of mouse.

There aren't that many people in the country.

I found in the West that I didn't find a hell of a lot of interest in the Indian thing when I was out there, you know what I mean?

I mean, here in Washington, you get to do it.

That's all anybody's thinking about.

Yeah, that's one of the things you've said before, the great value of being out away from here a little bit.

Yeah.

That there's more perspective that way.

Well, use your judgment.

Give him a call.

I will.

Don't let it appear too obvious.

No, I'll just say that there might be a lot of reactions from the show.

A lot of reactions, and that you've talked to Pressman and the rest, and that you think the whole thing is turning around, and that he just ought to.

Just have in mind that there are just a lot of press men that say privately they're furious at the way they're handling this thing, and that they believe that this is a question of just twisting things.

I certainly will.

As a matter of fact, I've really received a lot of calls and wires from people saying they're glad to see me, you know, get back on our side on it.

And people like, I'll tell them like Irv Kupson, that's one, who he knows and likes.

Great.

You do that.

Will you do it, Irv?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Hello?

Senator Robert Dole, sir.

Hello?

On the line, sir.

Mr. President?

I'm just returning your call.

I was out last night, and... Well, you had a good day yesterday.

Yeah, well, Mrs. Nixon did a hell of a job, and...

I understand.

She got a great reception when she returned, which she deserved.

I didn't expect you to return my call.

I just wanted to extend you best wishes for a good year.

Well, are you in Kansas?

I'm in Miami.

Miami.

Oh, boy.

That's too bad.

Yeah, it's too bad.

I called B.B.

Rebozo before I came down to get the weather report.

He said it's going to be all right.

Well, give him a call and go over and see him.

Talk a little politics.

Why don't you do that?

I might do that.

He's a good guy.

Yeah, well, you call him and go out to dinner with him.

I'll be down here tonight and tomorrow night.

Well, fine.

He'll enjoy seeing you, and he's totally reliable on Florida.

Right.

Totally reliable.

Might be a good thing to do.

Yeah.

Are you feeling all right?

I'm feeling good.

Fine.

Well, you get ready for the big battle of the next year.

We're going to have – I'm working.

I'm sort of going out of communication for a week while I prepare the State of the Union.

So that's on the 20th.

And then we have our big cabinet dinner that night.

So we'll get everybody.

I'm going to expand that to include the top people in the White House, too, so that everybody, a big family, kind of an affair, you know.

Right.

That's when we're going to say goodbye to Morris fans, too, for your information.

Right.

I have General Hank calling you, Mr. President.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

Have you left yet?

No, sir.

I'm in the office.

How do you feel?

Oh, fine.

Very good.

You must be dead.

Well, I've got a little cold, and that's...

But you're not under the weather or anything, yeah?

No, no.

What I mean is you must be fatigued.

That's what I meant.

Well, it's a screwy time schedule.

I think we left at about 4 o'clock.

Would you like to come over for just a few minutes before I leave?

Yes, sir.

I'm over at the EOB.

Fine, sir.

I'll be right there.

Ziegler?

Thank you.

Mr. Ziegler.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

Well, you must have had quite an experience.

Yes, it was really something.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, it's probably worth all your hour or three years of work, wasn't it, to go over there?

It certainly was an experience, and I appreciate having the opportunity.

Everything is going all right?

Yes, they were very cooperative, extremely cooperative, and very warm.

When are you going to let the press know that they're only going to have 80?

In the next week or so.

I discussed that with the Chinese, and we're going to do that the next week.

I had Jerry Warren.

I told him that the question was raised that he should knock down the IDF-200, which some of them have floated.

Right.

I was just talking to Jerry.

And I say that we just, that's not the question.

Right.

That it's far less than that.

So that we do go out at least, because I think the 80 is about the right number.

Did they accept our names pretty well?

Down the line.

Down right accepted the whole thing, just as presented.

They were very responsive.

There's no way to, you can't get any, do anything with regard to a Dick Wilson or a Timish, for example.

Well, I was thinking of them on the basis of they're going to write books.

That's another way that it occurred to me, but I don't know.

We did not want to raise any additional numbers there.

I don't mean numbers, but these could be names to substitute if necessary.

Well, there might be a way we could work around that.

That's what Dick Wilson, I think, had on your final list anyway.

He's on the list.

Well, we'll take a look at the Timish one then later.

All right.

The evening that Premier Cho and I received it, he said to me that he felt that the Chinese table tennis team could...

come to the United States in the spring and ask me to convey that to the president of the Table Tennis Association.

Okay.

That's great.

Well, get some rest.

Just to read your wires to me, I better give Scali a call, too.

Scali?

John Scali, please.

Thank you, sir.

Hello.

Mr. Scali, Mr. President.

Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

I was just sitting here with Al, and I said to him that you and he and Ziegler now must realize that coming to the White House isn't as worth it after all.

Well, it was a great experience.

Wasn't it really something?

Yes, it was.

The best part was knowing that it has well-prepared your forthcoming visit yourself.

Yeah.

Was it useful, you think, for you to go out?

I thought it was.

Oh, I thought it was enormously useful.

Yeah, and you got a good feel of them and us and what we're going to do and so forth.

And I'm very encouraged.

Well, go home and get a little sleep.

Will do.

All right, John.

I think the 80 is about the right number.

Did they accept our names pretty well?

Down the line.

Down right, accepted the whole thing, just as presented.

They were very responsive.

There's no way to, you can't get any, do anything, whether they regard to a Dick Wilson or a Timish, for example.

Well, I was thinking of them on the basis of they're going to write books.

That's another way that it occurred to me, but I don't know.

We did not want to raise any additional numbers there.

I don't mean numbers, but these could be names to substitute if necessary.

Well, there might be a way we could work around that.

That's what Dick Wilson, you, I think, had on your final list anyway.

He's on the list.

Well, we'll take a look at the Timish one then later.

All right.

The evening that Premier Chiu-en-lai received it, he said to me that he wanted the, he felt that the Chinese table tennis team could come to the United States in the spring and asked me to convey that to the president of the Table Tennis Association.

Okay.

That's great.

Well, get some rest.

Just to read your wires to me, I better give Scali a call, too.

Scali?

John Scali, please.

Thank you, sir.

Hello.

Mr. Scali, Mr. President.

Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

I was just sitting here with Al, and I said to him that you and he and Ziegler now must realize that coming to the White House isn't as worth it after all.

Well, it was a great experience.

Wasn't it really something?

Yes.

The best part was knowing that it is a well-prepared year for a forthcoming visit to your center.

Yeah.

Was it useful, you think, for you to go out?

I thought it was.

Oh, I thought it was enormously useful.

Yeah, and you got a good feel of them and us and what we're going to do and so forth.

And I'm very encouraged.

Well, get home and get a little sleep.

Will do.

All right, John.

Mr. Haldeman calling, sir.

Hello.

Mr. Haldeman calling, sir.

Yeah.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

Just got Henry and filled him in on the thing.

He said that Laird had called him back at noon and confirmed that he'd go with the 70.

So he had covered it with him and had agreed to do it.

Yeah, filled him full of all the Rush stuff and he thought that was great.

And covered the whole thing of what Max Frankel had told him and that he had done exactly the right thing in India-Pakistan and that even West Bengal may still break up and would have done the other thing.

that uh well you know he'll work close russia wants to work closely with us understands the situation exactly and you know has his close relationship with mitchell that'll be helpful to us and the whole good covered that whole ground he's uh he's still concerned apparently there's a rumor in the press now that he's resigning so he's he thinks that

he's convinced that you know they're running they are running a major campaign against him briefings on all this stuff and that the leak has given him the excuse for doing all this and he got his report from Rabin and they're pressing Rabin to go back into negotiations they're giving ground on the airplanes and

Well, what do you think of that?

The grieving ground in the airplanes is all right, isn't it?

Yeah, that's what they're supposed to do.

I said, have they done anything that they weren't supposed to do?

And he said, yeah, they shouldn't call Rabin in without telling us, and then pushing them to go back into negotiations will hurt because it'll louse up what we're doing with the Soviets.

Yeah, well, the point is, now, wait a minute, I talked to them about it, that we, I said, that we'll give you the planes, I said, and then you can...

You can, you know, drag around the negotiations you do.

That's your public track.

But privately, we're going to make the deal in another way.

Henry understands that.

They're playing according to the game, Bob.

They really are.

He doesn't say so, huh?

No, he didn't.

I think he must feel that because he didn't get very stirred up about it.

Because I said, well, can we use this as an example?

And as Mitchell had talked about, and he said, well, we can't, of course, tell State we know about the meeting with Rubin because Rubin's the one that told us.

So we just got to refer to the fact that they

We know they're having these meetings without keeping us notified and all that.

We can do that.

Well, they've given on the planes, old Bob.

That's what I had ordered them to do, and they did it.

Well, apparently they are, so they're doing what they're supposed to do.

Well, about rumors of resigning, that's inevitable that people are going to, I mean, but that might not be from state, you know what I mean?

It could be just some party in the press.

I'm not...

I mean, and the thing to do is to...

He's picking them all.

They're all calling.

He's got another one that three different people checked with him today or checked his office because a senior official has told them that Kissinger refused to provide new instructions for SALT because he's afraid the Chinese would be mad if they did anything before the Chinese visit.

Well, of course...

the problem is he really is stalling salt till after the Chinese visit but that's so you can sign it in Moscow rather than oh sure because he's worried about the Chinese but anyway there's something to that and then someone else called him that you had told Golda Meir that our biggest interest in the Middle East was NATO and you know what he's saying what his point is that there he was there people are doing a lot of leaking and briefings and

bureaucracy type stuff to try and shaft him.

It's the same syndrome.

So at this point there's nothing that can be done or should be done.

I just talked to Al and he just left and I said for him just to

get his mind on China, get Henry's mind as much as possible.

And he said, well, Henry just needed a lot of constant care and that he'd try to give it to him now that he's back.

I told Al briefly what situation it had been.

Well, it's one of those things.

I think your call was probably worthwhile, though.

Or was it, do you think?

Yeah.

No, I think it was.

And I think he's

You know, he's going through this.

It's a good thing because he gets these calls.

He just shouldn't sit there when he's supposed to be getting out the world report and take calls from these goddamn newspaper people.

That's really the problem, isn't it?

Yep.

But there's no way.

No way.

We've tried that every way we can.

He just won't.

He won't not take the calls.

He's scared to death, you know, there's something that will happen that he won't know about.

He gets all this stuff, but it's the same kind of thing as sitting reading a ticker.

It's a terrible, terrible waste of his time.

That's right.

And gets him stirred up about the wrong things.

That's correct.

I just think of the things you'd be stirred up about if you took every call from him.

Sure, and you get stirred up enough as it is.

That's right.

Sure, but you...

You can't do that.

The reason we've been relatively successful is, and through very difficult times, is by, you know, not getting stirred up.

Yeah.

Don't plan to.

Yeah.

Okay.

Then you and John should have your meeting with Bill tomorrow.

Right.

We'll go ahead with that.

That'll be useful.

And that'll be that.

Okay.

Nothing else of interest at the moment.

I'll go over to the residents, I guess.

Okay.

Thank you.

Hello.

Will you survive the day?

Oh, well.

Well, stay in bed.

Are you in bed or just home?

Absolutely.

Well, you were, no, but you've been pushing hard, you know, and I know you haven't been in the sun much, but stay right there and don't, we're needed for other battles.

Sure.

I know.

Right.

I suppose the bombing, too.

Yeah, it's a bad time.

We'd better expect the polls to go up and down, though.

Thank you.

That's not bad, though.

No, it isn't.

That's, you know, considering the 53 could have been a flip-up, you see, 49.

And if it's 49-47 here, it's still 49-15 Gallup, you know, that's what it is.

Well, I don't mind the 49-47.

Yeah.

Oh, that'll pass.

It'll pass because basically that's just a press thing.

And it passes because people realize it doesn't affect them.

Yeah.

That's understandable.

during the bounties, you know, it wouldn't be affecting them.

Sure.

And on the, on the, it would affect them very, very low rates.

Oh, well, I'm sure of that.

Yeah, very low.

Couldn't possibly get anything else.

There were only two areas in which Bunchy made any gains over, from the previous bowl, one would be good.

Over 15-7, you know, that would be good.

They would be,

It's certainly important.

That's right.

Now, on the economic side, that's what we're going to have to do.

Very, very important.

That's good, because you're the world change department.

I'm not sure we have a good environment.

We are going to have to do it.

Because for the first time in two years, the majority, and I'm going to play this very nice song, the majority of the American people do not think frankly about what we're going to do.

Now, in November,

That was the first time in 30 years when the majority of the message was not believed to be a recession.

In terms of doing work at the time to make the next amount of policy, you get a 40-year, 20-year, 30-year, 50-year, 50-year.

People favor it because it goes on for many years, but it doesn't take much longer.

And then he's got another poll.

you know that let me say that doesn't bother me because this is well to show mother keep burrowing people on edge and letting me be up now you know how to get down with it well i had three people

Which candidate do you believe does a better job with the final candidate?

The next one is very bad in this place.

The truck is the most impressive.

It's a man in white and it's a .

.

. .

They're all kind of close, so... Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, I don't think, frankly, I'm not surprised because I'm inclined to think that more than India, Pakistan, which I don't think affects a hell of a lot of people, I think the bombing thing probably hurt them.

The bombing may have been because it may have just been in the news so much.

It sort of makes me wonder whether the war is still going.

Well, that's right.

And in the negative column, the president says, you didn't really do badly in any of these things.

they're not sure it's one way up well we have

We've got to figure that our economic stuff helps with our foreign policy, sort of, but we aren't.

We're still in pretty good shape.

You say that his positive-negative is 49-47?

That's pretty good for Harris.

Well, that's right.

Now, you've got to remember that's Gallup.

You're going to be 49 with Gallup, too.

That's right.

I would think so.

Well, we should be.

I think we were in that last Gallup vote.

We were in that last Gallup vote.

And then it dropped down to...

So you see if the...

So you...

It may be comparing it with the second... No, that's right.

You said we were actually... Up in the real figure.

Right.

After the U.S. goes to the foreign aid, it drops down to China.

No, it's not bad.

But as he said, if he could even hold what we have right now, just as he did, if this is winning, because he went on the issue, with the economic stuff turning up, he feels the economy looks good.

Yes, he said that's been shown as an absolute steady increase.

And in every category it has.

I just...

went through some with him in depth stuff.

You know, in July he was rated 2273 and that's now 3856, which is up for November 3460.

And that's just every single error code when it's rated 451.

Still not even, but coming up.

That's right, but that gets up to 5060.

Well, he wasn't disturbed by it.

He wanted to.

He doesn't see it.

He doesn't personally see it.

He doesn't think about it.

He doesn't like it.

He doesn't.

Okay, what else is there?

That was the biggest thing I said.

Of course, that isn't reflected in this either.

We've had some very positive stuff in the last week.

They had this, the Japanese.

I think that isn't reflected in the poll.

No, it wouldn't be, because January 4th would have been a great event.

That would be a bad event.

San Diego, that would be a bad event.

We pulled at a tough time, so I just well know what it is.

At the bombing, you see, even though our

Our, uh, the, the, the Man of the Year and all that is coming up, and we have the good Christmas stories, and, uh, we have to realize that what we've done in the public mind, like the television, the bombing, I think that much more than, my guess is, much more than the apocalypse, and that affects people.

But, uh, you know, there's an interesting theory, which, uh, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can,

If we can't control it, we can't control the world if that wasn't enough.

Fire, we're going to get there.

Yeah, the markets, we just want to keep it bubbling along.

We just want to go up that country, go up there.

Thank you.

Well, are you keep well now?

No, no, but I mean, it's...

This is a good time to sort of... You've got a week left.

I mean, the 18th...

Yes please.

Yes sir.

Hello.

We have Dr. Kirsten here sir.

Hello.

There you are.

Hello.

Hope the weather is better there than it is here.

Well, it's raining here, so it's good you're there.

Yeah.

I was wondering this.

I saw Hague briefly, and I sent him home to bed.

He looked so tired.

I saw him.

I don't know whether you talked to him, but he... Oh, he's still up?

Damn him.

I told him to go home and go to bed at 6 o'clock.

I said, you go home and go to bed.

But he's done a fine job over there, I'm sure.

I talked to him about 20 minutes, and he, of course, I told him I'd heard the other reports, but he, Henry, is more optimistic about being able to work out the Taiwan thing than you indicated.

Well, let me say that...

that it seems to me we have it in the right thing.

And believe me, I talked to Ziegler just for a minute.

Of course, he and Scali, they both felt and said that they thought it was worth everything just to get to go, you know, all their work in the administration.

So it had a great effect on these guys.

Even Haig, as much as he's been true, was quite moved by it, don't you think?

Oh, hell yes.

We know that.

It's one of those things that we know, but it's just going to take a little time to set in, and that's that.

On the Bangladesh thing, I noticed that the British and the French were out at the airport, as we might expect,

But I feel that our policy should be one of just being quite, yeah, yeah, correct.

I get it.

Exactly.

And that's

That's fair enough.

Right.

Well, look, be that as it may, Haig made another interesting observation.

He said that Zhou Enlai told him that they were pretty close to Mujib.

See?

So that's...

That's something that I wouldn't want to digest.

I just...

But Budo, what's Budo's game then?

What's he going to do?

Well, Budo, I'm afraid the Pakistanis are going to stop moving forward just because there's not so much flow.

Budo's game is going to be to claim for a while some connection to Pakistan, but within three months, I'm sure this will go itself out.

Yeah.

And then the other hand, Higg also felt that the Chinese, he said, of course, they just may be talking.

He said, Zhou Enlai says the Russians and the Indians will live to regret this.

I think that's right.

I think it's going to happen, Mr. President.

Well, the main thing is to just keep our... One thing we have to be careful is that all this bad things are going on.

Yeah.

About me and about what we did, about me and George Washington, about what we did.

Sure.

They encouraged me to take...

Oh, boy.

You mean militarily?

Yeah, but you understand.

I know.

I know the other one.

But if West Pakistan survives, I think what's going to happen is that East Bengal, one of the things that will happen, either if you remain a military occupation, which is a military heritage that comes from West Pakistan, or East Pakistan, or Bangladesh, or any of the radical states, that will start attacking West Bengal, this is going to happen.

Well, I guess Laird got back to you.

I called him immediately and told him that $70,000 was it, and apparently he called you right afterwards.

Well, of course he can do it.

He's just playing.

I don't know what.

He knows damn well that's what we have to do.

We've got to do just a little more than we've done previously.

We're out there.

What difference does it make whether we have 69,000 or 75,000 there?

Not a bit, does it?

Not at all.

Well, we're not going to go, though, with the offer of not running, that's for sure.

That's out.

Well, and I don't think we should ever offer it.

I think this is plenty, and we'll just keep that one to ourselves.

It isn't necessary at all.

It does show, though, that we all know that historically he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to bring the darn thing to an end.

Now, tell me, with regard to Eimlich, as you know him,

meshed in the State of the Union at the moment.

But I will wait.

When you get back Thursday, and you'll have some sort of a draft of the first one, I mean of the 18th one.

And you still feel good about that date, do you?

On the other hand, I think it's best to get it behind us

Yeah.

Well, I think... Yeah.

Yeah.

That's my view.

I'd like to just put a lot on the Congress's plate and confuse the hell out of them right at the beginning.

Although, as you know,

It isn't going to satisfy them.

They'll up and say, well, why don't you offer that or this or that or the other thing.

You know, Humphrey's announcement was made today, and I understand he said that if he had been president, we would have been out of Vietnam by now.

That's your easy way to second-guess it, isn't it?

Yeah, and he showed damn little to suggest while we were trying to

Well, that's neither here nor there.

You don't feel so?

I think that what we may find, I think we do, that the bombing itself had a temporary blip because it just worried people, you know.

Yeah.

Yes, within a week.

And particularly, it will be forgotten, we have the withdrawal on Thursday.

Again, I can't judge on you, but most of those people that look to those Democrats that I know, nobody in Pakistan knows them.

They're not, huh?

And what do they say in India-Pakistan?

They just don't understand it, do they?

They think it's confusing, and they know that we didn't win, and that worries them.

Yeah, I know.

They don't like to support the losers.

But we know why we did.

I had a very good talk with Rush, as I think Bob may have told you.

And he is, we've got a total, I had the colonel leave the room, or whoever he is,

And then I talked to Rush alone for about 25 minutes, and I said, no, look, I laid it all out.

Perfectly worked out with Mitchell as the communications belt.

See what I mean?

Which I think is really, really very good.

I said, the main reason I wanted to take this job is because he'd be sitting in the Wesson meetings.

And I said, no, you have in Mitchell a man you totally trust.

you can always talk to, so he won't have the problem of going to me over Laird's head, you see what I mean?

Oh, yeah, well, that's understood.

No, but what I meant is, I said he could, he understands that.

Yes, yes, yes, there's no question about that, but you know what I mean, he's, as you know, he and Mitchell are great, great, well, they're very close, particularly on a number of issues, you know, and it'll be a very, very salutary arrangement.

And, uh,

Laird said an interesting thing.

He said six months ago he recommended him for this job.

Oh, I see.

Well, I wondered what it was.

But in any event, Laird seemed to be happy about it at this point.

Well, at least he can't say anything else because he knows that I was cast, and I think we've done exactly the right thing, don't you?

I just... Because he's going to have to

take a wallop on his conflict of interest because that company of his has a tremendous amount of defense business, of course, just like Packard's.

But that's inevitable with anybody that we put in this job.

And the fact that he's been ambassador to Germany, I think, and he's been confirmed to the Senate there will help him in confirmation here.

He's going to see Laird tomorrow and have a talk with him.

Well, the point is that

He will be, Henry, far more effective, in my view, than Packard in the clutch.

Not that Packard was totally loyal, but I mean that... Yeah, yeah.

And he will know how to play the game.

That's my point.

And he'll know, as I told him, I said, we just had to do some things from the White House that...

I didn't sometimes want to go through the secretary on it, and I said he had to understand that.

He said, oh yes, he understood.

He didn't have to spell out a thing, because I think, see, he knows about Berlin and all the other things.

So that's that.

Well, anyway, I hope, you say you're making good progress on the report?

Yeah, I think that's that.

How many people do you have there working on it?

Good, good, well, I'll give them my best.

Yeah, well, at least...

at least we'll get a little play.

And incidentally, that's the place to have a damn good chapter in India and Pakistan, don't you think?

That's the place to do it.

Don't do it till then.

And that's enough.

Well, I heard you did.

I had mixed emotions.

I told Bob that I told you to go ahead, whatever you want to do.

But it just may be as well to let them blow for a while and then go on.

And then we speak out on this.

But before that, of course, I'll be having a press conference, and they can hit me with it, and I'll knock it down quickly and then come on with the annual report.

What's the date of that again?

About February 8th.

Sure, well, I see.

That's a good date, because my press conference is scheduled for the 10th, June 10th.

That's what I meant.

If you go the 8th and the 10th, I can give it another flip, you see.

It'll get a big, it'll make it there.

You don't want to launch it at the press conference?

No, because I'll tell you why.

The thing is that if I launch it at the press conference, they'll ask a question about something totally unrelated that will lead it, see?

And I want this to lead by itself.

So you ought to run this and lead and get a two-day ride on it.

the press conference comes, then we'll get another ride on it, see?

You see the point.

I know these people.

They'll ask some political question, and some jackass question will lead the other question.

And the report will be a secondary story, and they must not have that.

The 8th is a good date, just looking at the book here.

Yeah, it's a very good date, if you can make it for that.

And if you can't, we'll shove it to the 15th.

I know, I know, but what I meant is...

If you can't make it by the 8th, I understand your problem, but if you can't make it by the 8th, don't feel that it's life or death.

Yeah, but that's good from our standpoint.

We go on the 8th, I do a press conference on the 10th, and then from there on we're preparing for China.

When do we leave China?

15th?

16th?

Yeah, well, I want to have everything out of the way on the 10th, which I will.

I'm going to Florida then.

and relax and get my energy back.

Sure.

Well, you see, I'm scheduling nothing from the 10th on.

I'm going to try to... Well, but it's five days of...

Well, I'm keeping the schedule very loose between the 20th and then 2, you know.

I have a... except the press thing.

Well, I will except for one press conference.

I should have one before I leave.

And that, of course, always takes two days.

So except for those two days, I'm going to keep it.

I'll take another look at this tomorrow and be sure that between the 1st and the 8th, the 1st and the 10th, that I'm as clear as possible.

I understand those two days, but except for those...

Well, the problem is, you know, we've got those borders that you have to see.

Listen, Colombo's off.

Isn't that off?

Well, we've got to offer it.

We hope that we get knocked out of office before then.

I see.

Well, do you think we have to offer it to him?

We've already offered it.

Yeah, I understand.

Well, okay.

I see.

Okay.

Well, I won't bother you.

It's only 5 o'clock out there.

It's 6.

All right.

Well, you've got to... Good evening.

Okay.

Bye.

Yes, please.

Olson, please.

Thank you.

Hello.

Mr. Olson, sir.

Hello.

Good morning, Mr. President.

Well, you're still in bed.

Well, I'm home.

That's good.

I'm sitting up at my desk today.

Well, now, don't press yourself, because there are other things, too, games we can play.

I'm like you are.

Still got a fever?

Hate to be down.

I think I do a little bit, but...

Well, just nurse it out, believe me, because when you've got one, you've got to play it very close to the vest.

After four days, I'm a little sick of it, I guess.

Yeah, I know.

Right, right, right.

It's itchy to get going.

Sure, sure.

Okay.

That's good.

Well, we won't bother you there.

I'm going to leave today to work at Camp David and work for a couple days in the State of the Union, so...

I'm going out of circulation.

Well, it's a good time for all of us to kind of take care of things.

I've been sitting here this morning just sort of reviewing what things I have to do and try to get down.

I guess every now and then to stand back from the back.

Sure, sure, sure.

Maybe a blessing in disguise.

Yeah, not be too concerned about what happens at the moment, but more in terms of the other things.

As I say, the

You know, I was thinking, too, that typical like our Dr. Harris poll, I actually think that's really about what I would expect and pretty good at this time, having in mind what we've been through, you know.

Although we did have very positive stuff.

Unfortunately, if we hadn't had the bombing, frankly, I don't think the Indian thing is, I would disagree with him on that because I know enough about the male reaction risk, but

with the bombing, but if we hadn't had that, we'd have probably been up around 53 or 54 again.

I think so.

That's one of those things.

I think it's the bombing.

And the fact that it didn't change significantly with Humphrey or Kennedy is also amusing and interesting.

It shows you that Muskie has a certain solid hole there.

I read Hallett's memorandum.

I think there's a lot in that.

I'm not sure that I...

I mean, it may be that he's...

that he sees all of our weaknesses and none of their weaknesses, but that's inevitable.

No, but he does that deliberately, Mr. President.

Yeah, but I mean, and he should.

But what I meant is that they have some problems, too.

But on the other hand, his point that we have really had a lot of bombshells and still are only running two to three points better than we were before is a pretty good point, you know?

Well, it is, except

But I disagree with him on this, that I think we were, I think that the bombshells helped bring us back from a period in which we had been pretty well down.

You know, if you look at the poles like... You mean in the spring?

In the spring.

That was really rough going.

Yeah.

He had just murdered us on Laos.

Yeah, that was a rough time.

That's when we had our lowest point.

Yes, sir.

And to be able to... Then we came back up in Gallup to about 50, and we've stayed there ever since.

Exactly.

But to be able to bring it back and hold it more here, I think, is good.

It's interesting.

Excuse me.

I talked to Buchanan this morning, and Pat is doing a lot of research on the Democratic opponents, and I told him of the poll with Harris, and it was an honest poll.

Lou was working with us, and he said, I would have expected...

muskie to have been ahead of us and i said why is that he said well my god he said you look at the media he's had a solid month of blooming plus very positive publicity that's right and he said you're just going to have to because we've had some too we've had it too but he yeah but muskie came out of kind of out of obscurity where he was three or four months right and i put on a real drive

So we've probably done better than we deserve.

He thinks that Muskie will not be able to sustain that.

unless he really gets a bandwagon going, wins the primaries, then he's going to be tough for us because he will avoid the... Well, he could have problems there.

I'm now convinced by something we've got to be sure that he does have.

I don't know that we can, but we'll see.

Well, in all ways possible to us.

On Hallett's memo, I had some reservations on sending that to you.

No, no, I want to see some now and then, something like that.

I have to remember with Doug that he...

He never gives us credit for it, deliberately.

And I make this point with him.

I say, Doug, you don't give us credit for things.

And he said, no, I don't consider that my role here.

He wants to take a chance to keep my detached object.

And he said, I think you're making, he said, I think we make three or four.

He sure gives the speechwriters hell.

Very narrow on that.

He thinks that we need a Nathan Glazer or a Daniel Boorstin.

Yeah, well, you can't get them.

Give us an intellectual.

Yeah.

Well, it's inevitable.

He may have a point there.

Well, you can't get them, so there's the point.

It's well taken, but they won't come.

Well, he argues, of course, with the muskie inroads in the suburbs that if we had someone who would...

this is maybe more of an eastern attitude however you can't tell about that too yeah he doesn't i don't think he would see for example that value of the meaning thing or did he see it oh yeah oh god he thought that was one of the strongest things well good he thought that was tremendous

Well, look, you get back to your, back to your, get rid of your cold here.

A parliament just came in, and he says to take off, take off 10 minutes.

Okay.

I'll take it off, but I'll be here if you want.

No, really, really, don't, because we're, I'm going to be out of circulation for a couple days, and everybody can rest, okay?

Well, I appreciate your call.

Thank you.

Dr. Kissinger, please.

Hello?

Dr. Kissinger, Mr. President.

Hello?

Well, how's it going today?

You got any more of your work done?

Yes, I think we are going to make February 8th now.

We're making good progress.

We're doing about a chapter a day now.

I know it's a terrific job.

Yeah, but I think this time we'll get a much better reception.

Last year we put it out in the middle of the low ocean period.

Oh, God, that's right.

It was rough, wasn't it?

Well, they didn't attack it, but they sort of buried it because they weren't the place to give you credit for it.

Well, I suppose this time we may expect that they'll be banging around there in Tucor and a few other places from what Al tells me.

Yeah, I think...

But we can't do anything about it, Henry.

I mean...

As Al was saying, you know, if the South Vietnamese can't handle it now, they never will be able to.

Well, that's right.

But that's where our move next week is going to help a lot, because if their answer to our peace offer is an offensive...

Right.

...that should certainly help us in public opinion here.

Yeah, that is why...

I think making it perhaps on that date, the 18th, is better than waiting because we just don't know when they're going to start hitting.

Otherwise, it might look like a reaction to an offensive.

Exactly.

I think basically the Russians are putting them up to it to overshadow the... We have an intelligence report today in which one of their people in Paris says

They're going to do it in February so that they can overshadow your trip to Peking.

Uh-huh.

Well, it won't do that.

I don't think they've got that much power.

Yeah.

On the other hand, it's a double-edged sword for them because if they do it at that time, you're overshadowing their offensive.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I hear from Haig, and you, of course, have had a chance to talk to him personally, and to the others.

I don't think there's any question anymore that they're going all out to make the trip.

Oh, that's right, right.

I haven't talked to the others except briefly, but Haig gave me a rundown.

They've paid the price now, and they have no interest.

I mean, if they were to make the trip a failure, they've already paid the price for the trip, so...

they've got a heavier investment than we have.

Sure.

Anything further with DeBranin?

Have you checked with him yet?

As I've checked, he's coming in around the 15th.

I see.

And I've left word that I want to see him as soon as he comes in.

Mm-hmm.

Well, that's the way to leave it.

In the meantime, you have pending the...

the thing from Stans, which...

Right.

I'll talk to Stans again tomorrow.

Yeah.

But that thing is going...

I have no doubt, Mr. President, they are going to try to embarrass us at the Peking summit.

They are really not so much attacking us as Peking.

Mm-hmm.

I see.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, fine, fine.

Then you can see them on the 15th, and that's that.

I'll see him.

If he wants to, yeah.

Well, he'll want to.

But he's already in.

But he's already, they've already indicated he wants to see you.

Oh, yes.

They've already said he wants to see me as soon as he comes, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So... Did you talk to anybody there?

I just haven't called Barranzo for a while.

No, I talked to Barranzo.

Oh, you did?

Yes.

And...

There's no, I have every... How was his temperature?

Oh, he's very friendly.

Oh.

They, in their turn, Mr. President, they are taking a cheap shot at the Chinese right now.

Right.

But as soon as that one is over, they're going to go all out on theirs.

Well, they don't want to overshadow the Peking one, won't they?

Of course.

That's what I would think.

I think they have too heavy an investment in theirs.

Right.

Well, okay, Henry, we'll...

I'll be out of touch now.

I'm going to Camp David in a couple of minutes, and I'll be out of touch until Thursday afternoon.

I've got to go into some writing, so I won't.

But if there's something you have to call me about, you call me, but I won't be calling you, okay?

But I'll be coming back Thursday afternoon, Mr. President.

I'll bring a draft up at us.

Same with Haig.

I'm not going to talk to him either, so if you let him know, get in touch with me if there's anything I need to know, but otherwise I'm not going to talk to anybody.

I'll have to concentrate on the domestic stuff in the meantime.

Haig was telling me that the Laotians want three Arvin divisions in there.

Of course, that's out of the question.

First, the Arvin wouldn't go without our helicopters, et cetera, and we're just not going to go into that right now.

It's too bad, but...

It's a tragedy because we're on the verge of victory.

That's right.

What do you project in Laos, just to continue deterioration?

I think they're going to lose.

They're going to...

I think they're going to make a major gain in the north, and they may have enough people in Vientiane.

But on the other hand, it's a sign of weakness on their part that they have to operate on the trenches.

Mm-hmm.

Well, there'll be some discussion of Laos here, but let's face it, most Americans are going to say stay the hell out.

But I think we'll be dominating the news now.

Because when we went into Laos last year, we didn't go in for the purpose of Laos.

You know, we pointed that out.

We went in for our own purposes.

Right.

How's the weather?

Pretty good, I hope?

It's warmed up.

It's

Isn't that good?

Well, I hope you sit out in your little patio there and get a little sun.

Okay, Henry.

Goodbye.

Mr. Bull, please.

Yeah.

Mr. Bull, Mr. President.

Yeah.

Yes, sir.

You can call up the helicopter now.

All right, sir.

Fine.

In ten minutes.

Yes, sir.

I mean, I'll be there in ten minutes if it's there.

Fine.

All right, sir.

Thank you.

Ms. Nixon, please.

Yes, sir.

Hello.

Mrs. Nixon.

Hello.

Hi.

How'd the tea go?

Oh, about 350 ladies.

That's great.

But it went well.

They all commented on the trip.

I'll bet they did.

Yeah.

Ziegler, please.

Thank you.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

I run with regard to that television show of Mrs. Dixon's.

Yes.

Let me say how I want you to handle it.

First, talk to Connie.

Right.

See if she thinks as I think she does that this is vicious, as Mrs. Dixon thought.

Right.

Then second, look at it.

Yes, I will.

and make your own determination.

Third, though, the main thing is that, you know, we've got to use Barbara Waller.

We know that people are against her and for us.

But I want her directly to be called and say, you thought it was a low shot.

If you believe that.

You know, look, Barbara, we're trying to cooperate in the rest.

Why don't you take just a cheap shot and really cut yourself off from the White House and let her come back, OK?

I have the number of wedges I can put into her.

I'll take it.

I'll look at it in the morning.

Waller shouldn't have done it.

Of course, Connie was... And the other thing is, in the future, I want you to tell Connie, and it's a strict rule, that nothing is to be done for any of these specials on television without total clearance for the White House and editorial control.

Why the hell should we?

Now,

if we're on a press conference or the rest, that's something else again.

But let's have editorial control because what this did was to raise hell with a lot of press people that had covered her on the trip.

They said, why the Christ are you giving that to Barbara Walters who wasn't on the trip?

I don't want to be critical of Connie on this.

I'm sure that she felt she had that type of arrangement.

But I'll talk to Connie about it.

All right, fine.

But you do that and give me your report about 11 o'clock tomorrow, okay?

And give Mr. Dixon a report, will you?

All right, fine.

Mr. Coulson, please.

Thank you.

Hello.

Good evening, Mr. President.

You're checking on your health.

How is it?

Oh, it's fine.

Thank you, sir.

Much better.

I feel much better.

Good.

Fine.

Good.

Anything else new?

Well, a few things today.

Most of the news we made was, of course, the report on Tiffany's trip.

Yeah.

Yes, I did.

Right.

Get Muskie on busing, too.

Put Muskie on the side of busing.

I want a massive campaign so he's on the side of busing.

The little project is not enough, Chuck.

I want a massive public campaign that Muskie is for busing.

All right?

Sure.

It's a Richmond case.

Well, what I'm really saying is this.

Get Agnew to hit it, get Journey to hit it, but get everybody to put Muskie on the side of busing.

He is for busing in Florida and nationally.

And let him deny it.

Now, but this must start tomorrow at about 8 o'clock in the morning, okay?

You're right to work.

It's a major issue, and we've got to put him on the spot that he is for busing.

market for both of them have everybody else packing for paperback well i think that it hit him just get put out but he is the book everybody every speaker should say we disagree with senator muskie

Bye.

What is your general thing?

I wrote a little memorandum to Haldeman and I because the people who drew the blue summary indicated that the reaction to Hoffa thing was overwhelmingly negative.

Well, maybe it will, it is, but I don't know.

What do you find?

Is it overwhelmingly negative, half negative, about...

I'd say it wasn't about 50%, but not as much as I thought it would be.

You're male.

Not pretty heavy.

Not heavy, yeah.

You don't think, you don't think it's a big issue?

I don't.

No.

No, it's, it's, and it's very little editorial work.

You notice Humphrey was sort of a, came all out for the space shuttle.

And which one was it, Humphrey or Muskie, that decided they wouldn't go on the busing issue?

No, that was Humphrey.

Yeah.

Humphrey wouldn't come on the bus.

He refused to say whether he would move the Hoover thing.

Oh, the Hoover thing, yeah.

Well, let's get Muskie on that.

Are people going to push him on that or not?

We've got to get Muskie, you know, out on the limb on some of these critical issues.

Now, get a massive mailing in Florida that he's against JFU, a massive mailing in Florida that he's for busing.

And, you know, that's the thing to do.

And Mitchell, of course, will cooperate.

Put the necessary funds...

to be getting mailings to every Democrat that he is for busing, that he is against Hoover, and he's against the space shuttle.

But on the basis that it came from him, see?

I think, yes, I think he's got the ability to do better in both of these things.

Oh, he's with us, I know.

But how is he going to play this?

Is he going to play scoop now?

It's a matter of facing things publicly.

that, well, I can't agree with Muskie on bussing, I can't agree with Muskie on space shuttle, right?

Those two subjects, I think, could really kill Muskie.

I don't see how Muskie could kill Florida.

The main thing is to get Hubert to do well, not all of them.

Getting very hard there.

Well, there must be a very, very strong mailing.

Musky, musky.

Oh, yeah.

What if you know Hawking, the Polish boy?

You think Humphrey's taking the center now?

That's good.

The only issue is that they're all way out of Vietnam.

Yeah, who's going to get out of Vietnam?

What do we do about that?

Because you think New Hampshire may be more, because of the low, it may be more toxic than you think.

Yes.

How'd it go?

Right.

Oh, they're basically patriotic.

I don't know.

The difficulty is we don't have anybody up there except Yardy.

Is Yardy going to do anything?

Well, I think he will with most of them.

I think they'll do an excellent job.

I don't think it's hard to get more votes than people expected.

It's really kind of maverick to keep on going.

If you keep musky below 50% there, it may not be possible.

Well, that's what they call it.

That's what they call it.

It's good in Pennsylvania.

It's good in Indiana.

It's good in Tennessee.

It's good in Illinois.

The main thing is to get out of Massey.

I know about his problem.

Right.

Okay, anything else new?

Yes.

That's good, that's good.

I don't want it to be, just stay where it is.

21 million.

down one point.

That's good.

Yeah, I know.

Right.

Okay.

Well, I hope you feel better.

Fine.

Good.

Bye.

Yes, please.

He was just removed home.

Can I leave away at the residence for him?

Uh-huh.

hello i had just picked up the phone to call you yeah yeah yeah well i just wanted to know i did ryan help you he sure did i knew it would help and incidentally i've given an order next week he'd be down on wednesday and he's to try you he's to work on you and nelly too but this fellow has got a great gift you know there's no reason for us to be in traction and all the crap that people do because

you know, if there's something, you know, organically in that spinal system that he can fix up, have him fix it up.

I'll say this, he's really, not over 15 minutes.

I know.

He really took my back problem completely out of me.

That's all there is.

That's right.

Now go next week because, you know, that'll...

I'll have it checked next week.

Yeah, it's good therapy to have it.

And have him...

a little treat with the belly too because that'll help her for the future you see all right i do want to meet her because she is she ever four or five months will get out for two or three days that's right well pat has the same problem and now you do that now by all means and uh that'll help fine all right

Uh, I called you this afternoon to tell you that, uh, I talked to Bill Eberle, and the, uh, the Japanese were up to the same old thing.

They, in effect, said they, you know, they weren't fearful of something amazing, and he had to fix it all for us.

And, uh, they were messing around, uh, talking about two nuts.

Oh, I see.

What'd you say?

Same old thing.

I told him to call us back, and he said, well...

If that's all they had to offer, we didn't want to offer that to get the whole thing.

I had to upset him.

He said, what do you want?

He said, well, give me what we want.

Well, he said, call me tomorrow.

Call me tomorrow.

Right.

But anyway, Bill's got to go to London, and it'll be nice to meet you.

Right.

Well, we'll get the Japanese to give us everything they can, and that's that.

And that's all we can have to do.

They just try to be patient, you know.

Oh, boy.

They try to hang on, but they'll give in the end.

I think they will.

I really do.

And I'll be sort of disappointed if they don't.

I'll say we will be.

And I'll be surprised, because I really think they're going to do something.

Right.

That's all I'm going to say.

Well, one other thing I want to say to you, and this may not be the time to do it, but just as a little warning, and I'm reluctant to say this, but I don't know when something will come up.

I was sure if I were you, I'd watch Herb Stein's political side.

Oh, I will, yeah.

uh i've seen him do two things the last couple days that concern me yeah yeah yeah tell me what they were well one he made a speech uh april yesterday which may not be his fault in a fact saying well we're going to do control here very quickly well at a time when we're trying to keep the heat on that's right

We also need everybody to think that, well, it's just, you know, next week and next month, we're going to delete it.

Right.

I agree.

Obviously, we want to keep it cool.

In fact, again, we don't want to talk about it.

Yeah.

Talking about it is the worst thing to do, but I don't think that was entirely his fault.

I think he's got a device.

But today, we had a meeting with Kevin to see, you know, economically.

And, uh, I think those, uh, 30-year-olds, uh, uh, the exception, the problem with inflation, I was surprised.

You know, it's hard to be like this, too.

It's, uh, an opposite of labor.

And that was, that was the way it all started out, was at a time when George Shultz and, uh, John Rumsfeld, I believe, and Pat Sandfield were pretty well-structured.

Yeah.

But it, uh, it's just Georgia.

Well, basically, that's a cop-out, you know, to say, well, we're just blaming it on the labor union.

You know, even if it's true, my God, why start a study now in your cabinet to me that we obviously don't have to talk about when we go up and testify on the Hill and get into...

Oh boy.

This is not the time for all that.

That's right.

I know.

Yeah.

the Council of Economic Advisers and the Office of the Cabinet, you know, ought to be on the basis of how, uh, study how we can treat the, the competitiveness of American products.

And what you find is that the Council studies it all the time.

Get her a word of caution.

No harm done.

Like you were saying, I'm not trying to cause her any trouble, but I must say, you know, I was quite surprised.

Yeah.

So today, everything was quite well wired.

All of us got there.

None of us knew what it was all about.

We were warning it all.

So I just raised a red flag, you know.

You know, part of that, John, may be Arthur Burns.

It could be.

Sort of his line.

Yes, yes, it could well be.

He's trying to get off the hook on everything he does.

That's right.

And he's called it serious.

And I wouldn't be surprised what it is.

But what it is is because he's talking with him in London.

It's not going to work.

Well, I'll talk to him, but I'm not going to talk to him this week.

I'm going to let him wait a week.

What about Schultz?

Does he agree with you?

Oh, absolutely.

George.

After I got back to my office, I called him.

No harm done.

I don't want to make any

Yeah, we're not going to, we must move now to keep, see that harm isn't done.

But all I'm saying is, I think you've got inquiries for the time being, but I do think you'd have to share them with us.

That's right.

Oh, yes, to anticipate failure in advance.

Right.

And also to draw the sword in these people until it becomes necessary.

If we do...

I have a feeling they're going to play, John.

I have a feeling they're going to play.

Right, right.

Well, I'll keep on top of it.

And in the meantime, I think that immediately after the State of the Union, then we ought to sit down with Stein, you and I, of course, the quadriad, basically, and we've got to lay down the law.

Don't you think so?

It probably would be well...

That's right.

They all want to do things that will, whatever happens will prove that they were right later.

That's what it is, you know.

That's right.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

All right.

Okay.

Well, anyway.

That's all I had.

I believe everything else.

Did I tell you I talked to Lee Harris?

I don't think I did.

No.

I talked to Lee Harris this morning, and he said that he was reflecting a greatly expanded stream of confidence in all of these demonstrations in the course of action.

Yeah, he shows some, if we would expect, some concern about the bombing and all that sort of thing.

That'll pass.

That'll pass in a matter of a couple weeks, right?

But the main point is, on the economic side, he feels good, doesn't he?

He does?

Good.

Yeah.

That's the way we've got to play it.

We mustn't be just a bunch of damn negativists.

If you might add to that, for those of you who've been here, boys and girls, a year to a year and a half, government service, now that doesn't have to be the military.

Sure.

They have to be out for 20 minutes, a year and a half.

Find their vacations on the street.

Sometimes they have to be.

They have to be.

This is fantastic.

Among other things, we have to say, this is here an awful lot of, you know, I'm sorry.

Oh, sure.

Right.

Do that.

Right.

Particularly when it's not military.

That's right.

You're not forcing them into military.

They can do it in an environment.

They can do it in state government.

They can do it in local government.

They can do it in federal government.

That's right.

Federal government service.

They can do it in environmental fees.

They can do it in police forces.

That's right.

It appeals to me.

This just smites without causing more of an amount of harm.

Then during that year, year and a half, it might get different.

They don't change that much.

Look at the APF from the last 80 years.

Yeah.

This way, it pales for all these sensors.

That's right.

You might get a lot of sensors out of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Do some, staff that out, will you?

Do some thinking, because we have to do it.

We just got talked to yesterday for two hours.

A lot of things, thanks to that guy.

That's right.

And we have to, we have to slap it up in another way.

I know, we've had $20 billion since we came in.

That's right.

Right, right, right, right.

No, no, no, I'm just sitting here working anyway.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Fine.

Well, thanks.

Okay.

All right.

Bye.

Yes, please.

General Hughes, please.

Thank you.

I hadn't thought about that.

Other than that, it wouldn't make any difference.

But that...

trying to get off the trolley all the way along you know from the question of finally being there and not being there and it's cancelled and back on again so the last I knew it was cancelled then I got the folder last night and there it was back in

Yeah.

Well, especially when you're going against the State of the Union or something like that, they think that's the last chance to get something in.

Hello.

Mr. President?

This is Bob Haldeman.

Oh, General, he is.

Okay.

Hello, Don.

Bob Haldeman.

Yeah, Bob.

We've got the problem of choppers and getting to Camp David.

Right.

And understand there's no way to get up there between now and tomorrow morning.

11 o'clock is what they're for.

All right.

How close can we chopper out of here?

Is the problem here or at the camp?

It's up at the camp right now.

Okay.

then then how far how close can we get to camp david can we get to thermon or something like that uh i'll have to check bob i uh i'm not in my office and i didn't check that point but i can get i can well he does need to go and he's very anxious to avoid the driving all the way if possible give me give me five minutes right call me back on this one right thank you no damn mood to talk to him yes please figler please thank you hello yes sir

Well, how is the press handling the news today?

Well, of course, the announcement is a lead thing, but they're moving sidebar stories on the kids and the birthday thing.

Right.

I mean, but as far as the announcement, that's what I was calling about.

Are they doing it well?

Oh, yes, sir.

They're playing it straight.

They're moving, of course, with your lead on the announcement of the new levels and the reduction.

go into your remarks, and then they pick up on the Laird material.

Yeah, the Laird material pointing out that there we expect some bombshells.

The speculation, I mean, the spectaculars and so forth, yes.

It's playing in basically the scenario I gave it to you earlier.

Playing, all right.

Yes, sir.

In your opinion.

We're getting pictures taken of the Soviets over there.

Good.

So that'll be a nice story.

I want that out.

They're interested in that, aren't they?

Well, we're turning up interest.

The vice president is doing something with the attorney general, so we're having to grab him off from that.

But I think we'll force something out of it.

uh it's hard to break through your announcement today you see oh i understand well just see that somebody but there are cbs's over there now oh yes we have oh yes we've got the wires there yeah it's a very well covered yes right and give it the tasks and things like that second point uh

With regard to the kids, they're going to run a little story on that, though.

I'm sure they will.

The wires are already moving something.

The press were very excited about it.

They thought it was great.

They got a little picture.

Oh, sure.

And your comments and so forth were very good reading the poetry.

I want to be sure that the kids, the main thing is that they see their picture in the paper.

Right.

We're going to call the Alexandria paper just to make sure.

All right.

Fine.

Okay, sir.

Right.

General Hughes, sir.

Yeah, it's really bad up in Hagerstown, Frederick, and Thurmont.

They're all down well below minimums.

I've got a weather aircraft on the way up there now.

There's a possibility that it may go up sufficiently to get into Thurmont at 4 o'clock.

So what I did was I prepositioned the airplane over there.

It's on a five-minute strip alert over in a costume.

But

It's just doubtful Bob and one thing we don't want to mess around with a helicopter anything that would do with the icing or anything like that You know, how close can you get if you can't get in a thermo?

We can't get even even out of dollars.

It's bad So, you know, we're not going to gain anything really weak Frederick is the closest one that we do that we may get get any money on Save any driving time at all Frederick and Frederick and that's and that's below minimums so that

We just can't make any appreciable head wave of a helicopter at this time.

I've got an airplane on its way up in that whole area to recce it now.

But at 4, it could clear in an hour.

At 4, what time is it?

It's almost 3 now.

At 4, thermon is supposed to go up at 4.

Thermon should go up at 4.

But don't bet on it.

Okay.

This stuff is just like glue.

It's all in here.

Okay.

It's holding up by those mounts.

Yeah.

All right.

So you're going to hold off?

Well, let me check with the president and see.

Yeah, but I've got an airplane that will be ready for him in five minutes.

Okay.

So if we can get a break, we can go now.

Okay.

All right?

Yep.

Do that.

Bye.

General Hughes, please.

Thank you.

Yeah, Bob.

What he's going to do is set a time now and leave at that time, either by helicopter or car, depending on whether the thing is open.

Now, the question is, is 4 or 4.30 a better time to set?

I'd set 4.

Because if thermon opens, it'll close back in again.

Yeah, that's right.

And also, that gives them a better time to start for driving, too.

I mean, rather than

and try to second guess it.

I'd say 4 o'clock because that's when it's forecast to be acceptable.

They should open and you'd know it here at 4 o'clock.

Yes, because we could leave by chopper.

That's right.

We've got our helicopter up there now, you see.

It's on its way.

And if not, we'll go by car.

So 4 gives you that much of a...

Okay.

And that's for sure?

Yes, sir.

Thank you, sir.

The change in signals, the president will leave and the family should be notified at 4 o'clock.

Leave at 4, okay.

As planned, either by helicopter or car.

Okay.

Hughes says that Thurmont is scheduled to lift at 4 o'clock, so if it has, he's got a chopper up there.

If it has, they'll leave from helicopter here and chopper to Thurmont and then drive up the hill.

Okay.

So they can send a Camp David car down to Thurmont.

Okay.

And if it's not clear at 4 o'clock at Thurmont, then they'll leave by car from here.

Okay.

And drive up.

Are you still going yourself?

No.

But Rose and Marge are going?

Rose and Mark's going.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

So set them and tell them over at the house.

Okay.

Family.

And then set your car up as an alternate for the chopper.

And I've talked with Hughes.

He knows this, so you can confirm that back to him.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Right back.

Julie, please.

Thank you.

Yeah?

Julie, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, I got back.

I'm working here now.

I gave Landry a call.

I told him.

I told him I said it was the best all-around performance that probably had ever been done.

Because, you know, there was...

Well, you were nice to call them.

Well, okay.

This is Haldeman Care, Secretary Connolly, please.

Surety.

Hello?

Yes, sir.

Sir Robert?

President wondered if you would be available to meet with him any time from 2 on this afternoon.

Yes, sir.

I'll be available whenever he wants to meet.

What is your convenience, sir?

I have nothing that I can't change.

I have a 230, a 3, and a 330, but all of them I can change very readily.

I can do it at 4 o'clock.

I can do it at 3 o'clock.

I can do it any time.

So just at his convenience.

Why don't we make it 4 o'clock?

That works out better for you, doesn't it?

Yeah, but really, these others are just internal appointments, so I can change them without any trouble.

One of them is a courtesy call by a Yugoslavia ambassador that I've seen two or three times.

So it really doesn't make a difference.

Four is fine with me.

If three is better for him, three would suit me equally as well.

Why don't we leave it at four?

All right.

That works out okay here, and you don't have to joke on it.

All right.

That's fine.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Very good.

Thank you.

Ray Price, please.

Thank you, Mr. Price.

Hello.

Mr. Price.

Hi, Ray.

Mm-hmm.

Well, any further thoughts today?

How's... Well, I think... How did you see it in the cold light?

Well, I think it looks pretty good.

John Erlichman thinks it looks good, and I'll just go over to Len Garment, who thinks it looks good.

Len hasn't left yet.

No, he hasn't.

He's going to Shakespeare, huh?

Uh...

I think they're going to take a trip.

That's right, they were going to, yes.

It's a great thing.

He's going to visit those trade fairs and so forth.

They're going to Asia.

But they both feel all right about it, do they?

I think so, yes, in terms of tone and approach and so forth.

And John was very enthusiastic.

Thank you.

What's that?

John Ehrlichman was very enthusiastic.

He wanted to talk to you about the reference to the Secretary of Treasury in there.

He thought it possibly raised a couple of questions which he wanted to take up with you first.

Whether it might be seen as a slap at the Vice President because it was an intergovernmental thing.

Well, that's true.

We've got to find a way to do both then.

You have the intergovernmental thing, but we need the...

If you could have a reference to the Secretary of the Treasury where you talk about the tax reform, in other words, a sentence like the tax reform, and then say, I have directed the Secretary of the Treasury to initiate studies in this field, and then go to the IRA or whatever it is, and say under the chairmanship of the Vice President, is doing this and that.

Could you do it that way?

I could try it.

If you could try it that way.

I just want

Well, any further thoughts today?

How so?

Well, I think... How did you see it in the cold light?

Well, I think it looks pretty good.

Joan Ehrlichman thinks it looks good.

And I'll just go over to Len Garment, who thinks it looks good.

Len hasn't left yet.

No, he hasn't.

He's going to Shakespeare, huh?

I think they're going to take a trip.

That's right, they were going to.

It's a great thing.

He's going to visit those...

trade fairs and so forth.

They have a great time.

They're going to Asia.

But they both feel all right about it, do they?

I think so, yes, in terms of tone and approach and so forth.

And John was very enthusiastic.

What's that?

And John Ehrlichman was very enthusiastic.

He wanted to talk to you about the reference to the Secretary of Treasury in there.

He thought it possibly raised a couple of questions, which he wanted to take up with you first.

whether it might be seen as a slap at the Vice President because it was an intergovernmental thing.

Well that's true but we've got to find a way to do both then that you have the intergovernmental thing but we need the if you could have a reference to the Secretary of the Treasury

where you talk about the tax reform, in other words, a sentence, like the tax reform, and then say, I have directed the Secretary of the Treasury to initiate studies in this field, and then go to the IRA or whatever it is, and say under the chairmanship of the Vice President, he's doing this and that.

Could you do it that way?

I could try it.

If you could try it that way.

I just want to be very sure that we have great sensitivity there.

I'm not so concerned about the Agnew, more on the Treasury thing, because the Treasury really has to depend upon, and the Agnew I don't.

Well, I've got two or three other thoughts that I'll work in the night that have to do with that.

Just a second, let me see if I can find my notes here.

I was wondering if you might try out at that where we come toward the after giving the laundry list that something along this line welfare reform has been for the before the congress for over two and a half years revenue sharing government reorganization our programs on the environment on health on education have

been before the Congress for a period of almost a year or something like that.

1971 was a

for consideration, 1972 should be the year for action.

I'm just thinking of making it a little tougher in that respect.

Would you play with that a bit and run it by Ehrlichman to see what he thinks and by McGregor, that part, okay?

Let's see, the other things I'll note myself.

I'll take whatever, if you have any further things.

Don't have a new draft.

I have a draft that you left there today, this morning, and you have nothing to add to that at this point.

Not, not... Well, anything that you'd like to, that you might want to add, you just send it in, and then I'll, tonight, add a couple, three little thoughts that I have, and then we'll have another one...

drawn off tomorrow.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, fine.

Sure will do.

Fine, fine.

Any special time you'd want this, anything set in?

Yes.

Yours, anything that you have, I'd like...

I won't need it till seven.

No, I see no reason to.

In other words, I see no reason to type the whole thing off just to put it on a page.

But if you have an insert, like if you've got an insert on this like this or a couple of others, you might say on this page I do this, on this page I do that, and then I'll take the whole thing and fiddle around with it and try to...

I have a couple of thoughts that might lift a bit.

Do you think the conclusion comes off all right now?

I think it's a little stronger with the great Congress idea, don't you?

I think it's a pretty good idea.

I'm not sure whether the great Congress is the best thing to do when you're talking about a bunch of slobs like this, or when you're saying what the generations to come will say.

Yeah.

There might just be some different way of putting it.

Yeah.

Just describe it a little bit.

Yeah.

Fine.

Try it.

Fine.

All right.

Good.

Try and find some other way to put it.

But we can always play with that right to the last.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

All right.

Great.

Colson, please.

Okay, sir.

I would have rather got the same impression when our people called him, oh, no, but that wasn't that way.

No, it was different.

It was different, and you'd have to watch the two to really appreciate the difference.

You don't think it was exactly the same?

Oh, not at all.

No analogy at all.

You took him in stride.

You were very gentlemanly.

Muskie was not.

Muskie was obviously irritated.

He was terribly evasive.

He just kept bobbing and weaving on the questions, and his answers weren't good.

I mean, you had...

crisp, factual, very precise, nothing vague about any of your answers in the Rather thing.

And Rather was tough on you.

But you handled it gracefully.

These guys were tough on Muskie.

There have been a number of columns on the Rather thing which are quite interesting.

And it doesn't bother me a bit.

Most of them, the TV columns, do not take him on at all, which is all right.

But they do say that it was one of those where both came off well.

That's quite interesting, isn't it?

Yes.

That's good for our side.

Rather people feel good about it, don't they?

How do they feel?

I think the CBS people were a little shaken up because... Really?

Yes, sir.

They never heard a word from us, but they...

They heard a good bit from the Heartland, and I've been watching the letters to the editor column, which I think is very revealing.

No, I think I didn't call CBS, but I wrote Cronkite on another matter.

I guess that was it.

Well, Cronkite wrote you about the NBC day in the life of the presidency.

Yeah, I wrote to him.

Extraordinary letter from him, as a matter of fact.

Now, these are not comparable, Mr. President.

This fellow did not show the medal.

You think that they got some letters from the Heartland on their other show?

Oh, I know they did.

And...

well we know that we know of many but what about others too uh we have reason to think so from from what they uh indicated their their mail was running was heavier than we had generated and we and we heard from people who said that they had been incensed over it mostly partisans sure what we have to realize though chuck is that generally speaking people are on the side of the in of the

person being subjected to the Inquisition, you know.

Yes, and he may have a point in that respect, but I don't think, I think that's right if Muskie had appeared bruised or had appeared offended or had been big about it, but he was little about it.

And his people really personally raised hell with the other side, huh?

Yes, sir.

The thing about Rather's people, they could never complain that we raised hell because they didn't hear a word from us.

Not a single word.

You think that shook them up at CBS, huh?

Yes, I do.

In fact, I've had some indications that it did.

It's hard to say.

We really don't know what's going on inside that place, except that one of their lawyers is a good friend of mine who feeds me things, and he indicated they were disturbed by it.

that they thought rather have gone on just a little too hard.

There's a difference between a senator who's a presidential candidate and sitting in the Oval Office.

The environment is totally different.

If he submits himself to meet the press, that's the name of the game.

That's right.

I think the biggest deficiency... Of course, I've done meet the press at least a half dozen times, and you just have to sit there and take it, that's all.

You never control any irritation.

the other place that he's vulnerable as a result of this and i think this one needs exploiting is he he's running on the trust muskie theme he's running on the theme that you can believe in him you can't believe in nixon you can't believe in what the government says and this business of not disclosing his campaign finances on which he they really they just zeroed in on him and they

Well, have we?

I guess we have, yeah.

Well, you haven't been a candidate raising money.

That's correct.

That's different.

And from now on, of course, we will.

We'll have Morrie do that religiously.

But we're not being pious about it either.

You see, he's being self-righteous, so he has established for himself a higher standard.

Yeah, that's an amusing, interesting point.

Well, although don't expect politicians to lie about that.

Yeah, but this is the one thing he's supposedly got going for him.

I see.

He doesn't lie.

Right.

And if that image gets tarnished, he doesn't have anything.

You know, I'll tell you one thing.

I'd wish they'd have Agnew next week.

Agnew is damn good on these programs.

He won't go on Meet the Press.

I've had a hell of a time with him.

I'm trying to sell him it, but he just doesn't like NBC.

He doesn't like CBS either.

No, he'll do issues and answers, but he won't.

I don't know that he's unfaithful.

I might get him on one, though.

He's so good, if he could get on soon.

I think, well, of course, they'd grab him if I could.

And they could compare him.

You might just say, gee whiz, he's so good that he'll knock them dead.

We have Hugh Scott on Meet the Press this Sunday.

Maybe we can get Agnew on the week after or Face the Nation.

Maybe I can do it.

It's a good time for him to do that.

He hasn't done one in quite a while.

He's awfully good on Q&A, and he must not hide that lie under a bushel.

His spirits are up, too.

He's good on Q&A, and incidentally, of course, Connolly's superb, but we can't use him politically.

But Agnew is, you know, I've never seen him do bad.

I've never watched him, but I've never seen bad reactions to what he's done.

He's been damned.

He's crisp.

He's very intelligent, smooth.

I mean, he's got class, a lot more than Muskie.

If anything, he's, if there's any flaw, he's a little too smooth.

But other than that, he's, no, I agree, he's superb in a Q&A environment, and he's very, handles himself beautifully.

That's a damn good idea.

I think right now I could talk him into it for some reason.

Just say that after Muskie's performance for him to go on, you think it would be a coup.

Don't put it on me.

Just say that a lot of people in your shop have just said that he does so well that he can kill these bastards.

Well, he's very cooperative right now.

He got out a good statement on Muskie yesterday.

It didn't get...

the play that it should have.

Sure, it never will, but it will later.

Well, if we keep hitting it.

Right now, what the meteor is doing is very interesting.

They're building up the Democratic side.

This is their big... Building up Humphrey and Muskie.

Well, it's fine.

I mean, I think it's early for them, too, and I think it helps us, by contrast, Mr. President, to be

totally non-political, all of the columns that have been written about the fact that you're not engaging in partisan activities.

I think that's great.

And let the other side be out there cutting each other up as they're doing.

They're going to reply to the State of the Union on Friday.

Yeah, that's fine.

That's just great.

Kind of an interesting format.

Yeah, I know.

Answer questions on telephone.

That's interesting.

With the congressional leaders.

Yeah.

That's a good gimmick.

Sure.

Well, I've done it on occasion.

Well, I don't think you know the way it happens.

The damn questions, they'll feed them all in, and they'll know what they are, and they'll answer them.

That's the way it works.

I think it's going to be a hard thing for them to draw the issues that way.

Let me say, as far as drawing the issues is concerned, that sort of thing in the middle of the day is dead-ass.

There's nothing.

That's why I'm glad we're doing it in the middle of the day.

I am, too.

They're giving them the same time frame, which, from our standpoint, I think is just perfect.

Fitz told me that they've been to him twice, and they've been pretty tough with him.

First of all, he takes all the credit.

He thinks that we made that move strictly for him.

Oh, balls.

Yeah, well.

Fitz knows better than that.

Of course, Fitz does.

But he just says that this guy can't deal with him.

Let him have it there.

We're not going to be worried about that one, believe me.

Just do the best we can.

Well, the thing I'm trying to get Fitz to do is to get him to go after Muskie.

He's paying no attention to Muskie.

I went back through the Manchester Union Leader for three weeks, and hell, you can't find anything about him.

Nothing, good or bad.

He builds up Uarty, builds up Ashbrook, and then has a couple of editorials a week that just cut the bejesus out of us.

And that's Loeb, of course.

He's got a one-track mind.

That's his being very, very helpful to us.

All of his people, by the way, he told me...

He had what he called honor commitments out of all of the top fellows.

I was amazed at the list he gave me from across the country.

And he's also helping us on the West Coast tax strike.

I don't know whether he's going to succeed, but... Well, I hope he can.

I see he took another union in, too, with him, which is good.

Well, he's trying to take Bridges in.

And he told Bridges that he would not support his strike, which really drove Bridges right to the wall, which, again, if it's did for us, he sure...

he's a tower of strength yes sir and i think we're going to find him awfully helpful this year he's been as i say just spending his time recruiting and doing very very well some of the key areas you know that can can make a whale of a difference because those fellows infiltrate the heart of the building particularly in these key industrials i mean basically uh

To me, it's New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Illinois.

That's where it can help.

Yes, exactly.

Not so much in California.

That's a volatile state.

But those states, it can help enormously.

It can be terribly important in those states.

And he says we shouldn't write off Michigan.

I've heard others say that.

I don't know whether they're right or not.

I see no evidence that Michigan is any different than it always has been, other than Fitz saying that his people, who are, of course, very strong there, and the general feeling in the other workers, which he claims is, whoa, they're having the best time they've ever had, and that they're basically conservative fellows, notwithstanding woodcut, and not to write it off.

Right.

Okay, you stay well, and I'm going to be busy this week.

See you later.

Yes, sir.

Yes, please.

Mr. Sapphire, please.

Yes, thank you, Mr. President.

No.

Mr. Sapphire.

No.

How are you coming along now?

When will you have the first draft?

Well, let's see.

I would say I'm about, I'm just following your outline, and I'm about a third of the way in now.

I can have it late tonight if you need it.

No, no.

No, I don't want that.

Let us say that if you could have something tomorrow by 3 o'clock, that would be better.

Well, I mean, is that enough time, or would you rather wait until tomorrow at 7 o'clock?

No, 3 o'clock I should have it.

And that'll give me something so that you don't get off on the wrong trail that I can work on and pull it into the kind of, as I have some ideas on this.

How do you want me to work?

Do I give this to Henry to work on?

No, no.

No, you...

In this instance, you were to work totally on this draft alone.

Right.

You see, because this is basically my thought and bring me the first draft.

Right.

And just don't submit it to anybody.

In other words, I'm not interested now at this point in substance.

I'm interested in form.

Right.

You see, the difficulty is, I'm sure you could tell from the NSC draft was that

it was fine on substance and totally lacking in form exactly and it would have been an utter utter disaster if it had been delivered that way but that's that's all right that's not their fault because they aren't paid to do that kind of work the other hand what really matters here is the form the substance will carry itself now the form is what we have to get into it and that means chiseling all of that interminable discussion about

we're confusing people about nine points seven points eight points you know what i mean where what comes through are just a few basic points to what we have offered what they have rejected what we offered well first that we have been as i said in my outline that i think i think beginning reminding i think it's not at all it's always a good idea

repeated as often as we can of the enormous success we've had in the withdrawal of forces in Vietnamization.

Don't you agree?

Yes.

I mean, that's a lot of people.

The sophisticates, of course, all know that.

But the folks forget.

They forget that 500 million, I mean, a half a million will have been withdrawn by the 1st of May, that casualties were done.

In other words, we might even use some rather graphic charts on that to show what has happened, you know, just to show that.

And that's right at the beginning.

And then say, now,

However, it's time to, rather than continuing, and we'll continue to, of course, this weekend continue, that it's time to make a major effort to bring the war to an end through negotiated settlement.

And here's what we've been doing.

And the fact that we've had secret negotiations for certain reasons, which I think need to be explained briefly.

And just very, very briefly that you've

they've taken place over a period of time you've got the lower key the basically the the constant reference references to disinjuring it you see you can see that that's overdone because that will simply irritate no need to i mean the point is i'm i'm the one that proved the whole thing and i developed the strategy and we just got to say that on this such and such a date we offered this and such a date we did this

et cetera, et cetera.

You see what I mean?

I completely agree.

Don't you see my point on that?

And what I'm concerned with, though, is a reaction that might come that, well, obviously this means the secret talks have failed, too.

Well, that's exactly the point that I've raised with Henry.

I said, well, maybe we shouldn't do this.

So he said, well, are you agreed?

Do you think so?

Well, the way I'm trying to treat it is that just as secret talks can sometimes break a public deadlock,

sometimes a public disclosure can break a secret deadlock and try to offer hope that way.

In the history of negotiations ending wars, there's always been a neat combination of secret and public talks.

For example, the negotiations ending World War I were that way, you recall.

There were secret negotiations going on between Colonel House and other people all that time.

And then, of course, in World War II, as you know, there were talks long before the war was over.

And then finally they became public and so forth.

And so who knows what finally did it.

but the point is that we are doing this in the thought that by this public disclosure that we will now uh and also we're offering we're going somewhat beyond our offer in other words we're moving the deadline from seven to six months i i think that in terms of the uh in terms of what we have offered and do offer it's a pretty damn good record what do you think

It's devastating as far as, you know, everybody's saying, how come we're not here?

Why didn't we answer the seven points?

Why didn't we offer a deadline?

Why didn't we offer a deadline, ceasefire, exchange for prisoners?

Hell, we've done all that.

It will really trap the hell out of some people who are off on a limb so far and you can just sew it off.

And we've got to avoid any hint of gloating about that.

No, no, no.

That isn't our purpose.

That's why I...

I low-key this business of the fact that I think we can refer to the fact just in a just matter of fact that three months later or whatever it was the Senate passed a Congress passed a resolution asking for the very thing that we had talked for that we had offered and had been returned down on in our speaker talks I think that's worth making don't you think yes yes but no there should be absolutely no gloating there should be the purpose of this is the purpose of this is not to win a debating point

The purpose of this is to break a deadlock.

That's the whole thing.

Not to make points, but to make peace.

Yeah, which we've got to really hammer into Henry, too, so that he... Just in terms of form now, you agree that the form of the NSC draft, which is essentially each one of the meetings and going into each one of the meetings is seriatim.

is wrong and the way to do it is to highlight the key points and just identify what meetings.

Well, what I would, I think you could do some, you say that is you are aware of the, we are aware that on the negotiating front this is what we have done.

We have had blank public meetings that have been publicized and some private meetings.

But in addition to that, and as I said in my draft, or my rough notes, that I determined in fall of 1969 that we ought to pursue other channels as well.

See, I've been, I mean, nobody has believed this.

This is going to be pretty good.

You've noticed that I've said on the rather and the rest, look, we have pursued a number of channels and we've offered these things and so forth.

But then I've

I've never been able to say what, because I had to protect the channel.

We pursued other channels.

And so, that is, after consultation with the Secretary of State and Ambassador Bunker and our delegation in Paris, we decided to initiate some secret discussions with the North Vietnamese.

And then, say, they began on October the 11th, 12 meetings were held, or 11 meetings in which Dr. Kishner flew to Paris and met secretly with, you know, just briefly.

That's good cops and robbers stuff.

Nobody knows it.

And then these meetings were held.

The progress was made on, some progress was made on some of the issues, but the critical point, first critical point came in May of 1971 when we offered

and here get it put in, Henry says it better orally that he has written it here, when we offered to give them a deadline provided they would give us a ceasefire and prisoners, POWs.

They rejected that.

Then in August we came back and offered a deadline of nine months.

in return for ceasefire and POW they rejected that then in October we made another offer this time of a deadline and a ceasefire and so forth and now of course as you know we have a two-phase offer we're making we're offering now we have offered a deadline

in exchange for POWs in the first phase, and a ceasefire and a new election in the second phase.

So it's really built.

The main thing I want to get across here is that on the negotiating front, we've gone the extra mile, we're doing everything we can, and that people should unite behind this offer and quit nitpicking and back it up.

Then the other thing is that we'll put the heat on them now.

What the hell do they have to offer?

They constantly come back and say,

and they always use the term that they have said in each case they reject each offer and say that their condition for any kind of a settlement is precondition is the overthrow of the government of South Vietnam never say to I mean that's another thing that the government of South Vietnam the overthrow of the government you noticed I I made several semantic things in there that we overthrow the government of South Vietnam this of course we refuse to do then but you see then then this uh

what is really quite almost dramatic about this last thing is they offer a few to resign a month before new elections right that's that's a real snapper for the end don't you think so yeah he has offered to resign and uh it could be conducted so that there can be a new election and so forth but uh so that's sort of the field the main thing is to

to remember that we really have, this has got to be kept at 20 minutes.

It just can't go beyond that.

So that's 2,500 words.

That's outside.

That's 125 words a minute.

And I think 20 minutes is what it'll take.

Don't you agree?

Yeah.

Henry, of course, blanched when I told him that my guidance for me was 20 minutes because he wants to sock into this thing just about every detail that ever happened.

You know how long his draft would take, about 38 minutes.

Yeah, and, you know, it's a nice paper, but it's not a speech.

But I just wonder, looking past the offer at the end, you know, this is what we're doing, on Thursday it will be presented, in the peroration, is not the point of this whole thing that there are many times that a president

cannot take the people into his confidence, and has to negotiate in secret, and has to rely on trust and faith, and has to expend some of his... That in studying the ending of wars over the years,

you might say that i that anyone will will recognize that that has been the history that's the record that's the that's the cousin but then go ahead in other words but now i feel that maybe you want to put that at the beginning

No, I think it would be a hell of a point to make at the end.

But you're taking them into their confidence.

Why?

What do you say?

The point I want to make, and this is not what you'd say, is that you've spent a lot of credibility in doing secretly what you had to do.

Yeah, that's right.

And I realize that...

that I have had to, in order to protect the secret negotiations with the hope that they might fail, I could not reply when people, when I was under attack for failing to respond to the seven points.

We had answered to it for failing to offer a deadline.

We had offered a deadline.

You see, that kind of thing.

Is that what you meant?

Yeah, and the fact that, you know, you're not...

asking for sympathy on it.

That's what presidents are paid for.

That's right.

However, but now we believe that now that we have reached this point, now as we reach the period when our withdrawal is being completed, it is time to end this war quickly, honorably, and in a way that there will be peace not only for the United States, but peace for all of Southeast Asia.

That's a nice line, too.

Related.

see that's another thing you see that with the Vietnamization means peace for America ending our involvement which is of course we have it's a very fine term of art but what everybody wants what we want is peace right here is the way and therefore let's have it as a matter of fact you might work that theme and even at the beginning where you say that on the course of Vietnamization this can end our involvement in being peace to the United States however what we want our goal is to

through negotiation is to end our involvement sooner and bring peace not only to the United States but peace to the long-suffering people.

30, 40 million people of Southeast Asia who have been plagued by war for 25 years.

That's not a bad thing.

And now let's show you what we're doing.

Do you want to call on other nations at world opinion or anything like that?

No, no, no.

It's such a futile and obviously

a weak thing to do.

I would do it if I...

I mean, but that's Johnsonian.

It's not credible.

I think we just say it out there.

We ask for the support of the American people and of this proposal.

We believe it's an honest proposal.

We believe it's as far as any American would want to go.

It will bring this war to an end, and by supporting it, by having a united front, it will hasten the day that we can have peace.

of course the South North Vietnam and that even though they whatever their reaction is we're going to press this proposal press it uh with the and be willing to negotiate on it not on a taker something like that okay I'll get this to you by three tomorrow and then now if that uh if you would like as a matter of fact uh

I uh three tomorrow is uh if it pushes you too too much you make it seven if you'd rather now you just tell me which because I've got things I can do I'll deliver by three tomorrow yeah I think you prefer to work rather under under a pressure cooker anyway I'd like to get it I'd like to get something by then and then maybe then maybe we can start the next draft so but

In your first rough cut at it, remember to send it to me first, because otherwise you'll get it.

I don't want Henry to start worrying before he has reason to worry, see.

I'm sure he's worried already, but I'll get it to you first.

Then you just say that you want to submit to me a rough cut to see if you're on the right track.

Just tell him you're not ready yet.

Okay.

You can just tell him you haven't got anything yet, and then you can bring it back by to talk with me about it at 3 o'clock, as we say, and I'll look at it for a couple of hours tomorrow afternoon and give it back to you.

Then you can go work up another cut and then show that to him.

Perfect.

And tell him that you don't expect to have a draft until late tomorrow night.

Right.

You better tell him that now.

Fair enough?

Good.

All right.

Bye.

Hello.

You having dinner?

Almost, yeah.

Well, I wanted to say that I was thinking that if you could get that evaluation of this Price-Buchanan memorandum, you know,

would be helpful in terms of sort of the tone of the State of the Union, because I can't ship it perceptively, but I might want to, you see.

And the more I think about it, I think, as I had, when I talked to Price, I had talked to Ken Davidson, and I've always had serious doubts about his theory, because I think it's based on the wrong appraisal of the stuff in the elections.

you can put your finger right on it in other words that we came out you well remember we came out just as well at the end as at the beginning and it was only later when the media began to do us that thing as a result of our own and we gave them something to do it on we butched it up let's face it and uh but price taking the you know the usual liberal that he had opposed doing anything in the campaign anyway just figured that was the reason but uh

What's your offhand judgment at the moment?

I mean, it's so easy to wait, like Connolly says, but it's also very dangerous to wait.

I think he's right.

I think it would be dangerous not to for part of his reasons, but even more for yours.

I've already said it wasn't for doing it.

No, no.

Your other reason, which I don't think that matters, because I think you can change that.

And besides, this wouldn't be doing what you said you weren't going to do anyway.

This doesn't have to be political at all.

That's right.

But the timing?

The question of timing.

This is only January.

You've got 10 months to go.

You're right.

The point is that you've learned that you can and is so right.

The whole quality of life crap, the revenue sharing, the welfare reform, all of it has been for nothing, hasn't it?

Well, in any event, let me just say, yep, I'd like to see what Price's analysis.

You sit down and talk with him about it.

Don't let him sit and amuse about it and figure it out.

see what he thinks also.

And who else's judgment would be good on this?

No, not at this point.

That's right.

Garment would be interesting, but you've got to hit garment hard and say, now look here, Buchanan is right about the 70 campaign and don't let your liberal things

knock you out of the ballpark here.

Because Len is a fighter.

But they all have this illusion that everything that we did prior to the 1968 election was all love and kisses and roses and so forth.

They forget that the period when we had the most trouble in 68 was when we were sort of gliding along toward the end.

Remember?

We weren't taking anybody on.

He launched all your positive programs and all that.

Yeah, everyone and everybody said, let's have the positive programs.

He put all things out.

They didn't mean one damn thing.

Okay, Dick Moore is a good one.

Anybody else you think of?

I think that's enough.

Colson's judgment wouldn't be good.

I'm not sure what his would be.

Yeah, well, it wouldn't be, but he's a tactician.

But I think Dick Moore's would be very good.

and uh garments i think sapphires might be what do you think yeah i think it would okay okay okay try them okay

Would you ask Mr. Colson to come in, please?

Yes, Mr. President.

Just a second.

Sapphire?

Yes, sir.

Mr. Sapphire.

Yeah.

Hello.

Hello, sir.

Bill, I don't know whether Rose told you this, but be sure that on this that you do not have any typing done by anybody except her.

Definitely, that's the only thing I know.

You understand?

I know you do your own work, and I don't need copies and so forth, but you understand, and I don't.

Just you, Kissinger, myself, and, of course, the typist, Rose.

I've only used Rose so far.

Now, I will have a draft a lot earlier than 3 if you'd like to look at it.

Well, I'll tell you, I've got Arthur Burns coming in at 11.30, and then I've got to go at the dock strike at 12.30,

Let me just see here.

How about twos?

Could you drop a two?

That's that two.

Okay, Bill?

Do you want me to come by your office?

I want to come by and just drop it off and let you read it.

Why don't you do this?

Drop it off.

You know, I'll be at the EOB.

Drop it off, and then I can read, and then I'll have you come by, say, at around 3, and we can chat about it.

Because, you see, then I've got to get back to the State of the Union, and Ray's going to have another draft at 4, and I'm forgetting this damn thing until after the State of the Union and finish it off next Monday.

Okay, how's it coming?

Are you beginning to feel good about it?

Yeah.

Well, your direction was pretty clear.

I mean, I followed your outline and took a crack at the ending.

I'm sure Henry will have some ritualistic language.

We'll see about that, but I meant the main point is more important than his ritualistic language is the direction.

and what we really say here, you know.

I think believability and credibility is the theme.

It sure makes it.

Yeah.

Well, the point that I was going to make is that I think this idea of...

I think one of the most powerful points is this, that here we were basically in a bomb shelter, and this is when people were asking, why didn't we respond at some point?

Why didn't we agree for a deadline?

Why didn't we agree for

to exchange POWs for and so forth.

I said I had to remain silent in order to, because the only hope of negotiations at the time that both sides were seriously negotiating secretly was to keep them secret.

I said now, however,

I think that's a powerful point, the fact that we took the goddamn heat when we could have blown them out of the water.

I'm leaning very hard on that.

Okay.

Maybe too hard.

Good.

Now, whom should I leave this with, too?

Just you come over to the EOB.

Right.

You were there.

Munson will be out there.

Manolo's not here today.

Just give it to him, and he'll bring it in to me.

Right.

Subjects to talk about.

Thank you very much.

And I hope that both Mike and you had a little time off, Mike in Florida and you in Philadelphia.

That's right.

I had a hard time at home.

I'm glad to see it.

How about you, Mike?

Oh, fine, Mr. President.

Good rest.

Do you intend to address the joint session at 1230 on Thursday next?

Yes.

In fact, that's Thursday after tomorrow.

If I'm...

unless I come down with pneumonia, I'll be there.

So I look forward to seeing you at 1230, and I'll try not to keep you too long.

About three hours.

That's fair.

Three hours.

Is that fair enough?

Fair enough.

Delighted to have you come up and visit your old place in the center floor any time during the session.

I'll tell you, I think I will do that one time.

It occurred to me it would be a good idea, you know, just for old time's sake.

We'll come up and...

Maybe have a little lunch with Mike and you and the rest.

Well, we'd love it.

I'd be happy if you would.

Have a little fun, you know, and forget politics for a while.

That's right.

In fact, I was just thinking, Mike, that you and you are the only two people I know in the Senate that aren't candidates, so I'm glad to talk to you.

Or, Mike, are you a candidate?

No.

Tell me.

Don't keep me in the dark now.

No, no.

You can bet on that.

All right, Mike.

Okay.

Okay, Mr. President.

All right, thank you, Mr. President.

We look forward to seeing you.

Yes, thank you.

Mr. President, Congressman Boggs, Ford, and O'Neill to talk to you.

Fine.

There you are.

Hello.

Hey, Mr. President.

Well, how are you?

Well, we're glad you're all back in town and in good health and on such a beautiful winter day.

Jerry Ford right here.

Tip O'Neill's coming in in just a minute.

Right.

Yes, well...

How did you get your properly reimbursed for that wager we made?

Oh, that's right, that's right.

Well, I'll tell you, we'll contribute it to some good cause, like the funds, like the athletic fund of the University of Michigan so they can buy a, no, no, no, I mean compensate an adequate quarterback.

No, their quarterback was all right.

I thought you were coming down to the Super Bowl.

I saw it on TV.

It was a good thing, wasn't it?

Boy, those Texans, they were magnificent.

Well, I've got quite a mass of stuff we're going to do.

I'll be down, I would like to come down Tuesday, I mean Thursday at 1230, as you know.

I'm not going to hold you.

Hello.

I'm not going to.

Hello.

Hi.

How are you?

Glad to have you back.

I was down there in New Orleans waiting for that play that you said.

Yeah, that tell you.

You want to work.

The only trouble was that they didn't have enough of them.

I'm always for the home team.

But the Cowboys, nobody's going to beat them for two or three years.

Well, we'll announce that, Mr. President, that you will speak to John Sessions at 1230.

Also, I'm going to do something that's different.

I'm going to give so that my

message will not be as interminable length.

We're going to give you a written message, too.

You remember, until Woodrow Wilson, except for Jefferson, all messages, as you recall, were written.

But this instance, I think the combination will be good.

I think so.

We'll give you that tomorrow and the other one on Thursday.

Fair enough.

Well, we look forward to seeing you.

Yes, Jerry.

All right.

Okay.

Well, we'll look forward to seeing all of you, and don't do anything until I get there, please.

Okay?

Well, we've got a couple of matters.

Fair enough.

Handling the routine, but we're looking forward to Thursday.

You know, it's one thing I want to say to all you folks that's very surprising to me, though, and it is the House is a much bigger body than the Senate.

You've got 435.

They've only got 100.

And yet they got ten times as many presidential candidates.

Now, what's the matter for you guys, huh?

Well, you don't want us to dredge up anymore, do you?

No, I think you've got it out.

Okay.

All right.

Nice to talk to you.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye, Mr. President.

Please.

Secretary Connolly, please.

Thank you, sir.

Hello.

Secretary Connolly, sir.

Yes, sir.

John, just in terms, if you would handle it with Arthur Guidance, could it, with regard to that budget thing, I find that the message goes out Monday rather than Tuesday.

Yes, sir.

So the Sunday papers is the right-hand leak.

On the leak, however, or the leak, the way I think it should be handled rather than

rather than giving away the story, is to build it up by you in your own way, and to the extent that you want to have Arthur do something.

Just simply say that

that the strong uh that consideration is being given to this recommended by you see what i mean yes sir and then because what i what then when i the way i plan to do it is when i sign the budget message then i will state it all right so that'll give us two bites of the apple would you not agree uh and then uh and so if you and you and he could both say that

recommended by and then you can give all the background as to why we think it's a good idea what the problems are and so forth but the president is considering it and we'll make a decision on it and announce it tomorrow at the budget message thing that's fine I'll follow through with him good and you tell him I won't call him all right sir all right thank you please yes please would you ask Mr. Sapphire to come to the EOB please yes sir