Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 193 › Conversation 193-008

Nixon phone call with Colson on George McGovern and Democratic Party

Wednesday, June 7, 1972 · 9:22 AM–9:38 AM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 13 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation193-008 on Tape 193 (tape position 01:04:09–01:16:51)StartWednesday, June 7, 1972 at 9:22 AMEndWednesday, June 7, 1972 at 9:38 AMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 193-008 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed the potential Democratic presidential nominee, George McGovern, and his perceived radicalism. They agreed that McGovern's platform and associations with the "SDS movement" and "draft dodgers" would alienate traditional Democratic voters and financiers. The conversation also touched upon the financial struggles of other Democratic candidates like Hubert Humphrey and explored potential support from disillusioned Democratic "fat cats" and major contributors who disliked McGovern.

Audio

Download MP3 · 11.6 MB

This clip was extracted from the full tape recording by Easy Nixon.

Listen to the full tape segment

Position in tape: 01:04:09 – 01:16:51

part A, 57:14

193a.mp3
193b.mp3
193c.mp3

NARA Description

On June 7, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:22 am to 9:38 am. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 193-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 193-8

Date: June 7, 1972
Time: 9:22-9:38 am
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 133-5; one item has been withdrawn.]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was made by an AI model listening to the recording (gemini-3.8-flash) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Speaker names are the model's inference from the voices and the participant list. Words and names can still be wrong — verify against the audio and the finding aid before citing.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

Colson[unintelligible] Hello, Chuck. Put some of the wood out

— 1 min 7 s with no transcribed speech —

NixonChuck, I think the biggest thrill in the world for those White House secretaries to get to see this house.
ColsonOh, sir, especially to have dinner with you, sir. That's
NixonWell, but they they see me around, but to see this place they go for more of them This place only the
ColsonThat's right. It's just a very few people. That's right.
UnknownWould you like this lit off now?
NixonNo, no, I'm going to get up, sit at the desk. I'll save the fire.

— 4 min 25 s with no transcribed speech —

NixonColson, please.
ColsonHe's been sitting with, he was with [unintelligible] this morning for three hours [unintelligible]-
NixonThe Democrats could do the party system an immense service by, by letting him walk off the cliff.
ColsonThat's right.
NixonIt'd be very hard to recover from it, mind you, but I don't see how they can live with him.
ColsonThey can't.
NixonBecause he will tear up, tear down that party. You see, with Goldwater, Goldwater came from the mainstream of the conservative party-
ColsonSure.
Nixon-wing. But this fellow does not-
ColsonNo, this is-
NixonHe's from the radical movement-
Colson-it's the SDS movement-
Nixon-which is-
Colson-it's the, it's the draft dodgers, it's-
NixonYeah.
Colson-it's everything that people can't stand.
NixonAnd it's a movement that, too-
ColsonPot smokers.
Nixon-it's a movement, too, that rejects traditional Democratic-
ColsonThat's right.
Nixon-principles. Liberal, but responsible. You know, labor, the, [unintelligible] the church, foreign policy.
ColsonYeah.
NixonGod, Harry Truman, think of him.
ColsonOh, they, God, John Kennedy, Franklin Roosevelt. I mean, my God, Franklin Roosevelt wouldn't be caught dead in the same room with McGovern. He'd put him in jail.
NixonThat's right.
ColsonPut him in a concentration camp.
NixonHe sure as hell would.
Colson[chuckles] He would.
NixonRoosevelt threw the communists in jail [unintelligible] World War II. Roosevelt threw, uh, had them picked up. And the, uh, Roosevelt had the, uh, you know, the Bundists.
ColsonSure.
NixonAnd [unintelligible] they were [unintelligible].
ColsonAnd he put, and he put the, uh, Japanese in camps.
NixonRoosevelt took people and, who were basically un-American and had them locked up.
ColsonLocked up. That's right.
NixonHe wasn't, he didn't coddle them.
ColsonNo, sir.
Nixon[unintelligible]
ColsonNo, they did-
NixonCivil liberties? Shit, no.
ColsonCivil liberties didn't mean anything when you were messing with Roosevelt. No, sir.
NixonSo here, McGovern is, uh, McGovern's an SDS candidate, isn't he?
ColsonThat's what he is.
NixonIt's very good.
ColsonIt's the radical left fringe. What has happened to him is that, well, you know how he got started, he was the guy the peace movement gathered around.
NixonThat's right.
ColsonThen in 1968, they didn't know, they didn't have anywhere to go when Bobby Kennedy was killed, they went with McGovern. He became chairman of the Commission to reform the party.
NixonReform the party.
ColsonSo all of the SDS guys, people like, uh, Fred Dutton, and [chuckles] those other [unintelligible] intellectuals.
NixonGary Hart.
ColsonGary Hart. Yeah. They captured the, the mechanism. Now they've captured, for that crowd, a guy who's like a puppet for them, they've captured the, the nomination.
NixonYeah.
ColsonAnd, uh, nobody in the country's going to stand for it.
NixonWell, the point is this, Charles, that, uh, having won California, what happens there? All the California fat cats take off their, throw in their, pick up their, go on home?
ColsonThey won't, none of them will work for McGovern. I know them, none of them will work for him. Some of them will work for you. Most of them will sit on their hands.
NixonWell, they don't, but the main thing is, we've got to be sure they don't finance him. He's broke, you know?
ColsonHe's badly broke.
NixonThey lost a lot of, he must have spent a lot of money in California.
ColsonOh, they, oh, the people had to go out and borrow for him, yeah.
NixonAnd they, who's going to, Humphrey's people aren't going to raise any money for him.
ColsonHumphrey's got a four-million-dollar deficit from '68, and God knows what this one's cost him.
NixonHumphrey's through.
ColsonHumphrey's finished, and the fat cats have had him up to here, so Humphrey can't get any more money.
NixonNo.
ColsonAnd Humphrey's fat cats despise McGovern anyway. They wouldn't touch McGovern.
NixonWho were the guys backing Humphrey, do you know?
ColsonUh, a lot of the, the big Jewish money out there, which really dislikes McGovern.
Nixon[unintelligible] like, uh-
ColsonGene Wyman.
NixonWyman.
ColsonGene Wyman is- and, in fact, Wyman has, you know, passed the word to us that if McGovern is the nominee, he'll work for us. He did that two months ago. Said he wouldn't touch McGovern with a 10-foot pole. And the rest of the, the, you know, the big-
NixonIs Paul Ziffren with him?
ColsonZiffren has been with him. Mark Boyar, you know, our friend Mark Boyar is, uh, very close to [unintelligible]. He's raised a lot of money. Mark's coming with us. He told, and his father.
NixonLouis Boyar.
ColsonLouis Boyar is already with us. He gave us 50,000 before April 7th.
NixonDid he, really?
ColsonAnd promised he would do everything he could for us, and he was the, you know, he was the guy-
NixonDid I ever drop him a note?
ColsonUh, I don't know that you did.
NixonGet an excuse for me to write him.
ColsonI will.
NixonDrop him a note. Mark Boyar?
ColsonLouis Boyar. Mark's the son, Mark's with Humphrey. He's been the money man for Humphrey.
NixonYeah.
ColsonLouis is the father, Louis has made all the money.
NixonYeah.
ColsonAnd, uh, Louis was Harry Truman's major contributor in 1948. In fact, he's the guy who put Truman back on the train when he ran out of money.
NixonYeah, that's right.
ColsonAnd they're, uh- and Lou Boyar's really with us.
NixonWell, the point is, I just think McGovern's- that everybody should let him, don't, you know, we don't, we can't endorse him, but McGovern is the guy, we, that we, we have the better case against.
ColsonOh, infinitely.
NixonInfinitely.
ColsonA 100 times better, we, you know, you can't compare.
NixonAnd, uh-
ColsonYou know, in Texas, it means that John Connally and the Democrats who want to deliver Texas for us can really deliver it. McGovern won't get 30% of the vote in Texas.
NixonNo.
ColsonAnd down south, we sweep the South, there's no question about it. And we win all the big blue-collar states.
NixonWell, we'll see, you know, we, I, I've got to see, Chuck. These elections don't, they don't, in other words, the big blue-collar states are very, uh-
ColsonTough.
Nixon-labor bosses are very, very tough.

Also recorded on June 7, 1972

  • 133-005 9:22 AM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:22 am to 9:38 am.
  • 133-006 9:38 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:38 am and 9:41 am.
  • 133-007 9:38 AM · 25 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Harry S. Dent talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:38 am and 9:41 am.
  • 193-009 9:38 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:38 am and 9:41 am.
  • 193-010 9:41 AM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Harry S. Dent met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:41 am to 9:48 am.
  • 133-008 9:48 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:48 am and 10:08 am.
  • 193-011 9:48 AM · 39 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:48 am and 10:08 am.
  • 133-009 10:08 AM · 19 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Robert H. Finch talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:08 am to 10:27 am.

All 15 conversations from June 7, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 193-008, June 7, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/193-008 (accessed November 12, 2026).