Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 193 › Conversation 193-018

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on George McGovern and Public Relations

Thursday, June 8, 1972 · 12:38 PM–12:46 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation193-018 on Tape 193 (tape position 03:13:27–03:41:45)StartThursday, June 8, 1972 at 12:38 PMEndThursday, June 8, 1972 at 12:46 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 193-018 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed various administrative and political matters, including the successful promotion of the China exhibit and efforts to maintain positive relations with Philadelphia Mayor Frank Rizzo. The conversation shifted to political strategy regarding Democratic challenger George McGovern, with Nixon directing that McGovern be criticized for his potential visit to Hanoi. Finally, they coordinated the timing of an upcoming announcement and testimony to ensure maximum public relations impact and to project that the administration was acting proactively rather than under congressional pressure.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 111.9 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 111.9 MB ·Download MP3 (part 3) · 59.7 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 03:13:27 into the tape and ends around 03:41:45.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
3:13:27I think Crystal was the only thing you asked for.
3:13:28Did you get any doctors or pharmacists, please?
3:13:33Kevin Phillips called me and said he was going to send them.
3:13:43Okay.
3:13:43China exhibit opened in San Francisco.
3:13:47More than 12,000 persons viewed it.
3:13:49The largest one-day crowd they've ever had.
3:13:52What are we saying?
3:13:52What are we saying?
3:13:54It's an exhibit of photos and gifts, you know, the China gift display.
3:13:59They finally got it on the road.
3:14:00They've had it here.
3:14:03They've apparently had two of the three local TV stations used a good clip of the exhibit Monday night.
3:14:09Chronicle and The Examiner both published stories on it.
3:14:13It's on a 13-city tour now.
3:14:15One more thing.
3:14:18We have the Soviet exhibit also.
3:14:22We will.
3:14:23Bob?
3:14:25No, I think we probably will.
3:14:26Yes, they do.
3:14:27Do it on a little different kind of basis.
3:14:30Yes.
3:14:31Rizzo, we worked out the invitation to Italy for him from the mayor of Rome.
3:14:38And it all worked out.
3:14:39And he said that he...
3:14:43Doesn't think he can leave Philadelphia for any extended period during the summer, but very much appreciated your following, your remembering and following up on it all.
3:14:51So we scored on that.
3:14:53Oh.
3:14:53Oh.
3:14:54You ready?
3:14:55Yeah, with whatever it's going to be, don't hurry.
3:15:05Thank you.
3:16:07Well, you got your hair cut now, all ready to go, huh?
3:16:10All right.
3:16:14Yeah.
3:16:17Right.
3:16:21Good.
3:16:25Good.
3:16:32Yeah, well...
3:16:35We just continue doing what we're doing.
3:16:40Yeah, yeah.
3:16:44Yeah, yeah.
3:16:47So we'll go ahead on that hydroelectric thing, right?
3:16:53Fine.
3:16:53Did the matter come up directly with regard to the possible visit of the Democratic nominee to Moscow?
3:17:07The other part I was going to make is this.
3:17:10Did you see this?
3:17:11Not only stupid thing that McGovern should be doing in Hanoi.
3:17:27Yeah, he's been surrendered in Paris.
3:17:28He doesn't have to go to Hanoi to surrender.
3:17:30That should be the line that you should put up to Coulson's group.
3:17:35Luckily, he should be attacked if this is a shocking thing.
3:17:39He doesn't have to go to Hanoi to surrender.
3:17:47They've got to be in Hanoi.
3:17:55That's funny for a human being.
3:18:00He's still hammering hell out of them with those B-52s.
3:18:13He's making the trail almost invisible.
3:18:18Oh, I see.
3:18:19By the way, it rained.
3:18:27These people are not Superman, Henry.
3:18:33They're not Superman.
3:18:38Well, I wish you well on your trip to the 4-3.
3:18:46Take care of your mom.
3:18:49Yeah.
3:18:50Yeah.
3:18:52Yeah, well, what the hell, what you do there is, you know what I mean, off the back of your hand.
3:18:59Try and incidentally make our ambassador feel like bringing him to something.
3:19:04Because basically he is totally going to build him up with his staff.
3:19:07You know what I mean?
3:19:08It's one of those things.
3:19:11So if you can do that, it isn't like what the Soviet and Chinese, who we didn't want the ambassador, as well as the Soviet.
3:19:30Right.
3:19:31Right.
3:19:32Good.
3:19:33That's good.
3:19:34That's good.
3:19:37Well, we, uh, we're going to go forward on a very quiet basis.
3:19:41I'll handle it myself.
3:19:42I mean, you can just put Fort Bright off and say you can't have an answer.
3:19:48I mean, did that, did you submit it to me as you were there?
3:19:53And, uh, we'll, uh, we'll, because we, we can't give him
3:19:58We can't give him the satisfaction of announcing it.
3:20:02I have to announce it.
3:20:10You mean just have that announcement later?
3:20:18Before my conference.
3:20:27No, no, no, I would.
3:20:28But when do you want it announced on Tuesday?
3:20:31Well, then it could be announced in the morning, see?
3:20:35And I don't plan to have my Congress until 3 in the afternoon anyway.
3:20:40See?
3:20:42But I prefer it on Tuesday.
3:20:45Yeah.
3:20:48And it'd be good for me to come on then and announce you're going to testify and then I'll blanket it, see?
3:20:53That's not... Oh, yes, I do.
3:20:58I can't if I, because of the, you just don't figure that you've got, the way the Senate always plays, well, we've got to know, we've got to know three days in advance.
3:21:08They don't have, they can know what one hour in advance they'll take.
3:21:13And this will be, this will be 24 hours in advance.
3:21:14It'll build like hell that day and then the next morning.
3:21:20And, uh,
3:21:24We want to get it with maximum yield, as little discussion as possible.
3:21:36So it appears we have done it rather than they have forced us to do it.
3:21:47We'll let them know an hour in advance if we're going to do anything else.
3:21:53That's about all.
3:21:53I think that's the way we want to do it, so that we are not in the position of being dragged down there.
3:21:58That would be a very bad situation if we're that way.
3:22:08We'll tell him exactly what he can say.
3:22:10I'll probably do it in the form of a letter or something like that.
3:22:13But any of that, we will now not submit the treaty until Tuesday.
3:22:15Is that correct?
3:22:21But we'll work on it.
3:22:25Well, we hope you have a good trip, Henry.
3:22:27At least I know it's going to be good, but I hope it's not too tiring.
3:22:32Hi.
3:22:33Bye.

NARA Description

On June 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 12:38 pm to 12:46 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 193-018 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 193-18

Date: June 8, 1972
Time: 12:38-12:46 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

[See Conversation No. 133-15]

Also recorded on June 8, 1972

  • 133-012 11:25 AM · 34 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:25 am and 12:30 pm.
  • 133-013 11:25 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:25 am and 12:31 pm.
  • 133-014 12:31 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 12:31 pm.
  • 133-015 12:38 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:38 pm to 12:46 pm.
  • 133-016 12:46 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 193-019 12:46 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 193-020 12:46 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 193-021 12:46 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 3:30 pm.

All 27 conversations from June 8, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 193-018, June 8, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/193-018 (accessed October 8, 2026).