Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 195 › Conversation 195-013

Nixon phone call with an unidentified caller on Welfare reform

Thursday, June 29, 1972 · 1:28 PM–1:33 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 26 sec

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); [Unknown person(s)]Conversation195-013 on Tape 195 (tape position 01:04:03–01:04:26)StartThursday, June 29, 1972 at 1:28 PMEndThursday, June 29, 1972 at 1:33 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 195-013 ↗

President Nixon consulted with an unidentified individual regarding the statistical impact of proposed welfare reform legislation. The discussion focused on contrasting the projected enrollment numbers of the Rybakov proposals against the administration's reform bill, specifically highlighting concerns that the latter would result in an excessively high number of welfare recipients. Nixon ultimately dismissed the granular details of the projections once he grasped the comparative magnitude of the expansion, signaling his disapproval of the current reform bill's scale.

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Position in tape: 01:04:03 – 01:04:26

195a.mp3

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On June 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:28 pm and 1:33 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 195-013 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 195-13

Date: June 29, 1972
Time: Unknown between 1:28 and 1:33 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President met with an unknown person.

     Memorandum for the President
        -Patrick J. Buchanan

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 1:33 pm.
  • 135-007 1:28 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:28 pm and 1:33 pm.
  • 195-011 1:28 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:28 pm and 1:33 pm.
  • 195-012 1:28 PM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:28 pm and 1:33 pm.
  • 135-008 1:33 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 1:33 pm to 1:43 pm.
  • 195-014 1:33 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 1:33 pm to 1:43 pm.
  • 135-009 1:43 PM · 5 sec — unknown person(s) and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:43 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 135-010 1:43 PM · 33 sec — unknown person(s) and the White House operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:43 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 135-011 1:43 PM · 41 sec — unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:43 pm and 11:59 pm.

Conversation 195-013, June 29, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/195-013 (accessed October 12, 2026).