Conversation 233-019

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No.

Where are you?

Yeah.

You've got to go rest or whatever you've got to do.

Yeah.

Well, I'd like to be at that sort of thing myself, but...

and do it these days.

That's right.

It's been quite a season, hasn't it?

Sure has.

And the, you know, they're picking the, well, they're not going to have any trouble with the number one team.

Yeah.

Very clever.

Yeah.

SC actually is a, I saw the game against Notre Dame, and really the personnel, they're both big, huge teams, but SC just has a tremendous explosive power.

It's just unbelievable when they start cranking around.

There's all those fast backs and everything.

Yeah.

Well, Ohio State was lucky to beat Michigan.

They held him to the last.

What I've seen, Dole tomorrow, that's what I called you about, is coming in.

And say nothing about it, but Bush is going to go.

And he's all set.

Well, I didn't push him that hard.

I said, now, look, you mustn't do it unless you really want to.

And I talked to his wife and so forth, told him what the challenge was and so forth.

All for it.

And, of course, I told him I was about to talk to you and I had how you felt about it.

And he, of course, wants to be sure to work under a new scheme, which you, of course, agree.

And so if we can get the right man on the other side, I don't know what's going to happen in the Senate, but I suppose, Brock, do you have any further reporting here at all?

How's that stand?

He's not going to beat you.

Well, the point is, if the word gets around, Jerry, that Brock is going to get the Senate one, you just can't have two kind of say.

You know, that's just one.

I mean, everybody's going to see that, aren't they?

I mean, we know there may be other reasons, but that's a damn good one.

I don't want to use that one.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Larry.

Yeah, I know.

And it's not a southern state.

It's much the one you're going with rather than countable.

Yeah, it's going to be a hard year.

And he's the best man on there right now.

Will he give up that one committee?

That's the stuff.

You know, you'd have a team like that.

What I would do, just as soon as, of course, even before they selected Bush, we could start working on it.

Because he won't be selected anymore.

for the 19th, it's because if Dole steps out, which now seems to be the play, he will come in and tell me that he recommends it, and then he will tell the press he's recommending that I call it, and so forth.

Then he'll, what's that?

Well, yeah, that's the present plan, unless something falls through in the school between now and then, but presently, Dole's scheduled to come for that purpose tomorrow.

He's been on to Kansas, and he's worked up things there.

The way I want to do it, because it's best for him,

and he comes in and says he's checked around and he first feels we need a full-time chairman.

Second, his recommendation is Bush.

Third, I will then call Bush and I already know Bush will say yes.

And Bush will say yes.

And fourth, I would hope Gold would walk out to the press corps here at the campaign and say, I'd say this, I'm going to recommend Mr. Bush and he has the president's support and I'm sure he'll be elected.

That'll be it.

And I think as soon as that's done, I would be glad to, I guess we can't assume the Brock thing yet.

And when will you elect?

I'm just trying to get this thing moving as quickly as we can.

Get Bush sat down.

If you could, when's the earliest you can get Brown elected?

Oh, yeah.

Right.

I get it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, good.

Good.

They all know.

Well, that's good.

Well, of course, I had told George how you felt, you know.

In fact, there was only one other item I had mentioned that I had talked to him about.

It was Barry.

He told me, but I didn't tell him I got it, because Barry's likely to tell somebody.

But, you know, I just want to be sure that I don't mind getting out, except I'm on dole to get the first playoff.

because it gives him the honor and so forth of doing it his way.

Will it?

And you see, you got a full-time man there, and he's going to work his butt off.

And I told him, I said, now, look, your job is to, your job, basically, of everything else is to work on that.

candidates for the House and the Senate.

And he's, you know what I mean, working in that area, building up the support for candidates, you know, around the country.

So he's all, he's really on target.

That's right.

Yeah.

get the three together, as soon as I get them, I'll get them and have a talk now.

It's gonna be a little delicate, but what I think I'd like to do, Jerry, is to have the three, the three Bs and U together to talk.

I mean, say, candidly, I'll arrange some other way to have U, but he doesn't quite fit that pattern because he's got various, as you know,

games he's playing with various candidates, you know what I mean?

And you don't have that problem.

You don't give a damn who's elected as long as he's a Republican.

And so I think what will reign is something in the way of a, what we put it this way, I think you ought to stay very close, if you're going to put it this way, to Bush.

at the beginning, right, because we can start a very close relationship.

And then I will make an appointment and say, Bush is going to be my political man, in fact.

And I'll make an appointment, and just casually we'll get together, and I'll make an appointment to handle the Scott thing by just seeing him separately sometime.

Does that sound all right to you?

But we're going to have to have some damn confidential discussions, for example, on the Brock side about Senate candidates, and some of those discussions are not ones that, frankly, that you should be in on.

Well, of course, and we see you have an ideological pattern that's pretty good here, too.

People think that Brock is much more conservative than he really is.

uh bush is about where you are and brown's about where you are and of course the interesting thing is so high so we've got we've got four uh three people brock brock building a little to the right but not too far but brock had brock breaks that great thing with the youth which which we can do so uh we just may get a team going here that could change the whole republican scene

What can you do for Kirkendall?

Uh-huh.

that's right well another thing too you can do it on another ground after all Les is a lot older than he was and you know what I mean and you sort of need somebody that can sort of help you with some of those things yeah I think that makes a lot of sense right

But all these things take that, like we find as we move these cabins of people around, we've got to save the base, I mean.

And there'll be ambassadors that offer this and that.

In the end it works out.

At least it works out a hell of a lot better when we're in office than when we're not, I'm pretty sure.

At least we've got some jobs, oh my God.

That's being announced tomorrow.

Italy, Italy.

Uh, Volpe will be announced tomorrow.

Yeah, the only reason it wasn't announced earlier was that we had to get the, you know, the agrément on the Italian government, which they were delighted to give, but that has to be done.

But Volpe is just as pleased as Bunch.

He wants to go, and he'll do a hell of a job.

Yeah.

And he said he's gonna go, and he said, I've told him that I expect him to do

a lot of traveling back to the United States, which he's delighted to do.

But, you know, he just loves that country, and it also gives him something else that we in Rome have a chance to know that's very above Catholic.

But Volpe is just particular to that.

He's right, right, right, right.

And he considers it

He's going to be very happy he'll be announced tomorrow.

Yeah, I think his successor is, will be, uh, uh, Brenner.

Uh, well, for whatever it's worth, he also, he happened to be an Irish gentleman, uh, of business from Los Angeles, uh, beyond about 41, two years ago in age.

Uh, he's a, uh, he's the next in line at Union Oil, but he is basically

I read that the oil side is in that, the cell engineering side.

He was a brilliant young chief executive.

He's gonna be a real dork.

Brenninger, do you think?

Yeah, we wanna bring in, so we're trying to bring in some young guys to live in the state.

We got the Irish.

The real problem we're having, finally, is that we've been trying to find another Italian

and that they're just damn hard to find because they're either in very good jobs on the outside or they just don't have the list of stuff and the list might kill them.

If both these ones would have one other position in mind, maybe it would work out.

You'd be surprised when you go get, for the second jobs there's no problem, but for the highest jobs, to get the right balance and get the right people is just hard stuff.

we have for example trying to get a deputy attorney general because you know he has to get thinking the fact that he may move up to attorney general but the best candidate by all odds is that i wanted is charles wright the dean of the law school university in texas now well that uh his fbi reports he's uh when he was in college he got picked up for some visit parties

Well, you know what I mean.

He's had three divorces.

Well, you know, you can get by over that in other options, but you've just got to be a trained general, Bill, isn't that?

Don't you agree?

And now this is not something that hurts him now, because they don't know it in Texas.

It happened in Minnesota.

But we ran, you know, this is a, I don't know how it's all said, but God writes just the man, because he wrote a terrific

And I had a busting statement for us when the thing was up.

He's a leader for the American Bar, one of the best law school teams, a great constitutional lawyer.

We run this down the FBI check, and I said, Christ, they'd kill us in that Judiciary Committee.

See, this is the reason we're going over these so carefully, and sometimes when we see names speculated about it, they don't turn up.

Many times we're just protecting the poor bastards because they got something in that report that they don't want out.

But that was really something.

And that's it.

There's nothing wrong with it.

I mean, there's a difference.

Probably kids, you know, a bunch of kids.

Today they have to do the parties and everybody thinks it's natural, but not in those days.

And the divorce is for a little bit, as he said.

He obviously likes girls.

There's nothing wrong with that.

They have a lot better than like a boy.

Okay.

I'll try to tell you for one thing.

We ain't got none of those.

Yeah.

But anyway, Volpe is set and happy.

It'll be a little better for him.

In another way, it won't be quite as pressure.

He's not, you know, he's got a sort of a bad arm or something into the first sight.

His back is his back.

But anyway, I'll tell you, he'll be coming back.

They can speak to each other.

He'll do a terrific job.

Well, they probably made more speeches than anybody else.

Okay, yeah.

Oh yes, well, I'm keeping people who were there only a year, you know what I mean?

But FUDS is very popular and the department we're gonna shake up very good because there's some people out around the country I found, and FUDS in Greece, and some of the soil conservation and other units and county agents have just frankly worked against our people

And I'm cleaning all those bastards up.

I got in, for example, with Undersecretary Bill Campbell today, and I said, now that's your job.

I said, you can do that.

I've seen them out, talked them out of it.

And I've got the names of people, you know, some of them picked up from candidates, and if they worked against us, they're going out.

And so we're doing that in various ways.

and said, now we can get this ploy worked out.

I mean, nothing close to it, but we'd get the three Bs, Bush, Brock, and Brown, that'd be a hell of a group.

And with Dan, I just think he ought to be your, you say, Dan, look, and he'd say, look, you think he is a man that ought to go up?

Why doesn't he take one step first and then go right over the other?

Let his colleagues see him.

Yeah.

Tell him that we all believe that

If you like, you can tell him how highly I think of him.

I think he's a hell of a fellow, and I think he's one of the men we ought to bring along.

And that we, it's just a question of who fills the spots at this point.

You might say this.

With Bush, we've got basically Texas, which is Nassau.

With Barack, we put in another southern border.

And really, we've got to go to the heartland.

I think you could say that, and that's Ohio.

It's the heartland, you see, the heartland of the Republicans in Ohio.

And Tennessee is there, too.

And I really feel that very strongly, too.

Because it does mean something that if we were to have in the leadership three Southerners, because basically even though Bush is a Connecticut Yankee, he's still a Southerner.

If you have three Southerners, that would make a very bad impression.

I really believe that.

That's right.

Which worked, but we don't want it to say it again.

Right?

But I think it's really true, Jerry, if you can use it and say, now the thing to do here is that you're an extra in line, you're going to move on, but you're going to be in that seat.

We need you, you need to do it.

Because he's got a lot of balls, and he's got a minor guy that wants something bad not to try for him.

Yeah.

I think it'll be in the morning, but it might be the afternoon.

But in the meantime, I guess we'll have to say we'll have to wait for any meeting until after you, after the Congress comes back, because it'll be too premature.

Okay, Gary.

We'll see you.

Bye.