Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 238 › Conversation 238-001

Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War negotiations and Public relations

Saturday, December 30, 1972 · 11:06 AM–11:42 AM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 12 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation238-001 on Tape 238StartSaturday, December 30, 1972 at 11:06 AMEndSaturday, December 30, 1972 at 11:42 AMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 238-001 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss strategies to manage public and media perception regarding the administration's recent foreign policy decisions and the ongoing negotiations led by Henry Kissinger. The pair focuses on refuting claims that the administration is 'crowing' over developments, instead emphasizing the necessity of their actions to counter North Vietnamese stalling and military buildup. Colson is tasked with reaching out to supportive journalists, specifically Crosby Noyes and others, to help frame the administration's narrative of calm determination in the face of congressional criticism.

Audio

Download MP3 · 15.9 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 4 minutes of this recording (about 35% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Action.
What do you think?
Why do you think so?
I don't want to be part of the critics, though.
Just being an outsider.
If Joe Coulson tells me that...
Well, what we're trying to do is that way, you know, Henry is terribly concerned about this, quote, crowing, end quote.
I told Henry, I said, Henry, this is funny, I said, Henry, we know it's going to crow.
I said, well, it says that all he thinks is going to crow.
I said, we're not going to crow, we're just going to put out the announcement.
Apparently, he wants to see, we can't get the congressmen to come out and cry.
You can't control Congress, you can't crow.
Thank you for watching!
You know, the idea that I use to determine calm and rough, I use the idea to determine precisely.
Right.
That's good, that's good, that's good.
Good, good.
This has been a rather rough meeting for many of our people in our history.
The way we had to do what we did, and we had to take the risks that were involved domestically here in order to bring this thing to an end.
In other words, we basically didn't know what would happen, and we didn't know how to serve it.
But we were certainly in an interesting position.
It was impossible after Henry had been, frankly,
They were dilly-dallying around for almost ten days.
And the other point that you made, we have to remember that their dilly-dallying delayed the return of our prisoners.
And the second point is that their dilly-dallying also was a cover-up for an enormous build-up.
They don't shoot that number of SAMs unless they're building up.
Why doesn't the president go out and explain?
policy.
This was not a good policy.
The policy was announced on May 8th.
Then, it was in October, early October, that I, unilaterally, as long as serious negotiations were underway, said we will not follow above the money parallel.
We continue that until any passes repeat, and then we just resume what we were doing.
I think that's the fight that should be very, I mean, people say
Explain.
Explain.
Of course, Ziegler did answer that, but they forget so quickly what the explanation was.
That's right.
But the whole point was that if we had not done something, we would have been in a position where we would have been filibustered to death.
Well, basically they were trying to filibuster until the Congress got back.
Figured that the Congress then would, frankly,
Yeah, I know.
You're a horse.
You're right, I know.
Yeah, well, it's totally true.
Yeah, it's a truly, truly thing.
I, of course, I'm really stupid.
Maybe because I've been on the phone with you, apparently, all the time.
And I have my problems, but my mind is still too.
But you can get back to any other culture.
Do you think of anybody else?
I was thinking of a couple of Dick Wilson.
How about Bill White?
Well, he's a good friend, frankly.
He's got guts and so forth.
Anybody else you think of that sort?
Do you think of anybody else?
Crosby Noyes, very good.
Crosby Noyes, let's get right to that star.
Yeah.
I would particularly like if he got to cross me eyes immediately so he can get this on the paper with him.
All right.
Yeah.
Good.
Good.
We'll call Heineken and tell him that the president just wanted to know if he could...
I just hope that they
Yeah, yeah, he's a fighter.
Well, Bill is too, but Bill doesn't talk, he talks in a more feminine way.
Yeah.
Yeah, and he can be the houseguys too, right?
Oh, sure, sure.
We're not trying to create a false argument.
We're just presidents in charge.
I like that.
You're calm.
I'm determined.
And then we'll have second thoughts.
Well, and the New York editor should get after it, too.
We understand all that.
What I meant is, too, we've got to remember the New Yorkers, like, we imagine we've got, like, Cronkite's going to be going to die, and Chancellor, well, Chancellor, more or less, is going to fall in love with Cronkite, but Cronkite...
Thank you for watching!
Do we have those back here?
Yeah.
Well, yes.
Well, if he does, I'll get some signs up there and go back to preaching.
Yeah.
Incidentally, you are...
Some of our second-guessers will say, why didn't the president go on and explain this?
Of course, you can now see that it was one of the stupidest things that could have been.
Any explanation would stick with it.
Of course, it created...
It would have made what is basically
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Okay, I'll call him at 12.30.

NARA Description

On December 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:06 am and 11:42 am. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 238-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 238-1

Date: December 30, 1972
Time: Unknown between 11:06 am and 11:42 am
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 158-40]

[An unknown portion of the conversation was not recorded while the tape was changed.]

Also recorded on December 30, 1972

  • 158-039 10:54 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:54 am to 10:56 am.
  • 237-050 10:54 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 10:54 am to 10:56 am.
  • 158-040 11:06 AM · 37 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and John A. Scali talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:06 am to 11:42 am.
  • 237-051 11:06 AM · 21 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and John A. Scali met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 11:06 am to 11:42 am.
  • 158-041 11:42 AM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:42 am and 11:51 am.
  • 238-002 11:42 AM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:42 am and 11:51 am.
  • 238-003 11:42 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:42 am and 11:51 am.
  • 158-042 11:51 AM · 59 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Cmdr. Alexander R. Larzelere talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:51 am to 11:52 am.

All 64 conversations from December 30, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 238-001, December 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/238-001 (accessed October 11, 2026).