Conversation 300-023

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Okay.

We will, uh...

I was gonna say, I got to go to the studio.

More of it is bugging and bugging.

I'm putting it on television.

I said, I'll give it to Dan.

He'll probably have that much.

Well, what's his main concern was it being bootlegged and not getting screwed on it.

I agree.

I don't really care.

That's the point.

The other thing is that they keep the cameras off.

It doesn't matter.

No cameras can be in there except for the other ones.

That's weird.

No cameras.

They can't put in their own cameras.

They take it off and leave.

I think the argument that nobody raised that there's ways to be more than the other is that

There are going to be demonstrators outside that are better off having to shoot what's happening inside than locked out on their board holding what's outside.

Yeah, they'll have to hold what doesn't hold.

And what we get is going to be a pretty low-level fight.

And that's what they're cursing.

And they're trying to throw human blood at people and things like that.

Are they?

They do a little of that and they'll do that.

That's in both ways.

I like that.

Who's writing them?

The Jerry Rubin type people.

It's a...

The same group that was struggling, and they were getting frustrated.

It's exactly what we talked about.

We knew what happened.

Getting frustrated.

There was supposed to be a big demonstration over the weekend, but it didn't really give much of a struggle.

They had good days Saturday, but they just didn't get a crowd, and nobody came.

And what are they doing now?

They tried to put up a vigil sleeping out in front of the White House, and it lasted one night.

The court's thrown us out, so we're in a bad spot with the court.

We have a regulation of only 100 in front of the White House, and only 500 in the Congress, on the courts from that regulation.

So we've lost a hard ground.

By the way, this is to restrict you?

Right.

We've all closed down.

So we're not part of the process, right?

I doubt we will.

They haven't been able to get up to go in there anyway.

But at least they can get a hermit out there.

Yeah.

Well...

The demonstration thing is just part of the... part of the problem of political life today.

Yeah, but it is, it's, when you compare what it was about the FBI and the campaign, Christ Almighty, it was a huge demonstration of the wrong, you know what I mean?

You can't find that wrong in every place.

You know, the loudspeaker systems, the electronic systems, we were ground, yeah, we controlled many of them.

Well, there's a, out there especially, there's, they've got some fairly effective organization in the neighborhood.

on the strikes and some demonstrations and all that.

But to do something like that doesn't take very many people.

It doesn't just take some guts.

It probably can take a woman anywhere.

I was listening to some senator who was a student.

I'm not so sure the college stuff at all wasn't good.

What's your feeling in the country, in the Midwest?

We recently were even considering, you know, well, good thing that we went to college and so forth.

I would consider it a good thing.

What's your perspective on that?

I sure don't see any point in rushing out to do anything on this now.

I don't have a damn sure.

I don't know whether there's...

Because they'll be building up so much on foot.

It's not a good idea to build up these things so much.

Yeah.

So you've got to show them.

Well, you don't want them to go in there.

The colonies aren't necessarily the only ones.

Yeah, I know, but the target of theirs is either to take a symbol or a colony.

Pretty hard.

in a high school or college.

College is here.

It's a big chunk of it.

Those things are all going sideways.

You get tired of them.

It's not meant to go on.

It's not going to be a very square approach.

Let me, a couple things to, oh, I'm not going to, don't have any makeup people around.

I won't, I'm not going to use them, you know.

Right.

I bring along my own little thing.

I don't want to screw around with a lot of trouble.

All right.

I think so.

I know you have that on the schedule.

Well, we've got discipline for coffee.

That's right.

Okay.

You can do it in a half hour again.

Oh, yeah.

I want to be sure that Buzz, like, if he comes here tomorrow, he'll see something.

Yes.

Well, he must see something.

I don't know.

at the same time as that.

Oh, I was on it.

I had a very good time.

I remember those jump series came to life.

The road got the wrong city.

Possibly, because what John did not, wasn't, you know, it wasn't a good thing.

About three weeks ago, I don't know what I mean.

Was that a dinner or an afternoon dinner?

Well, it was a dinner guest.

I wonder if that's it.

Just a very serious thing.

It was several months ago.

Yeah, John was asking, you know, John never presses him, but he said, you could be getting on one of those days, come here, here's the channel.

So I put him in that list.

And I just wonder if Rose got to be confused with Indy.

She's living normally, but she doesn't know him.

Anyway, Senator Spears.

On that matter, too, Mark Viata couldn't make the Australian interview.

It was election day, so they tried to get him in on the energy thing, too.

And he's, uh...

.

He will push you along.

Oh, I know that.

I know that.

I've met with him.

His point is that he doesn't have any...

He doesn't have any... Yeah, and he's sort of like, frankly, you know, the people with... Let's just hold it a little longer.

We've not made a decision on anything.

Let's see if we can count on that.

It's a pretty good place.

That's what he means, you know.

Maybe a Catholic, maybe a...

I don't know.

I'm pretty sure that when Mitchell was out there, that Greg Denning was bitching about that.

And apparently something went wrong with the goddamn quality or something.

Greg was bitching about that.

It was a cold call.

It wasn't that bad.

What happened was that, you know, it's the irony guys that you got into.

They didn't have it, they waited at the other end, or I was, I mean, I know what I mean, they didn't have it synchronized, so Mitchell told us, he told us it wasn't powered, we didn't have the tape.

And, uh, he said they were going to use the tape, and we went home at midnight, and he couldn't do the tape, and I said the same thing, and I said, on my phone,

I don't know.

Do you know whether they will have anything more today?

I'm not interested in that.

Yes, there's something that we can talk about on top of Schultz.

They are working now to try and... Schultz is much more optimistic than Wilson is on Schultz.

He looks at it now, intending to make a very fine line.

He's glad that labor hasn't gone along in a sense.

He thinks that we're in a posture now of being, appearing too much to be a patsy of labor's anymore.

And what he wants is for labor to do what they did in World War II, which is to object to the plan, but stay with it.

He thinks that gives us the best posture, and we can keep them right where they are now, which is that they voted against it, but agreed to go along with it, and stay on the board.

We're better off than if they were... Everybody except Fitzsimmons thinks that they're going to stay.

Fitzsimmons apparently thinks they're going to pull out.

They're trying to play the construction group off against me.

This is a very good set up for the construction people.

Trying to lift them back, get them to go to work on the end.

And what about this?

I'm going to start a field station on this end of the stand.

Because if you made it to the wall, it won't be long today.

There's nothing that I can do about it.

They don't seem to think so.

But he seems to leave it to George.

I think at this point, George is, let me say that if you've got to step in, one thing you've got to do is step in and tell George not to be sensitive about hearts.

George can handle maybe a night with two hearts in the hand.

Don't worry, I don't care if he don't handle them, but maybe George will.

Scott Hart's fault, just the fact that we need to move apart.

Apparently, we have a vote now for the 10% of the investment tax credit on the house on the floor.

Mills raised it with McGregor yesterday and said that he'd been thinking about it a moment, that he thinks we need the 10% kick.

And then it'd be 10 and then down to 7, rather than down to 5, but that's fine.

Great, we can do it together.

And what they'd have to do is go up the Senate floor, and Mills apparently is willing to help.

to try and get on and put in on the Senate.

And they seem to think there may be some chance of getting something.

They're not totally optimistic.

Yeah, the Senate would be awful hard if you're sent to be called a man to the business, huh?

Well, look, this guy doesn't get the damn accent.

He turns it down.

Well, I couldn't agree more if we could get labor to go along.

That is the best of both worlds.

We don't want to be the passenger labor here in Angus.

We don't want to look like we sold out.

Yeah.

A little bit more often than usual.

It's very conciliating.

Who knows?

But he's working on it, isn't he?

Yes.

I know he's doing a good job, doing a good public job.

I'm sure of that.

The radio is very solid, very firm.

Yeah.

And good.

With that, Rumsfeld, Schultz, and Colson worked pretty well together.

I understand all of that.

But as a team, I think that's a very good idea.

Say, one thing I was...

I know this is what Colson believes, but I don't.

I can't imagine Colson talking about the cost of the White House.

Colson said someone trying to get him.

I can't believe that he quotes Coulson.

That's it, that's what Coulson, he crossed and called Coulson with the story, and Coulson, that's the way he played it, which was a good way to play it.

Could this be, could this be the fellow over there with Joe Hall?

That's it.

Could it be?

I know it wasn't posted.

I'm sure it wasn't, too.

He wouldn't talk to us on .

Rossner's bad, but he wouldn't talk to us.

But he talks to Rossner because he's using Rossner.

He's using Rossner in a different way .

But he would .

I can't concede that he would.

I'm sure he didn't .

Oh, totally correct.

You know what I mean?

It's a very direct shot, but it does more harm than good.

What I think we want to do, the post is so valuable to us, I don't want to get him involved in that sort of thing.

I think we just want to keep him out of that.

I'm inclined to think Father Dole is not going to step up.

Well, the reason is not, he's starting to a little bit now again.

Well, he may have a problem, you know, he may have a lot of mock belt and all that.

He may be able to get in again.

And, well, I've been part of the distance, and he's worn out.

We've traveled so much.

And all we've got to do is get in and stick it.

We talked about this a little bit.

Stick to the big things.

Stay here, do the television, and the city's a Kansas center.

The big thing for him is to get an invitation to go to Billings, Montana, and speak to 150 people again.

You know, I used to think so when I was a senator.

I did them all.

But he's not.

He's too valuable for that problem.

He shouldn't take those little things.

30-second rule really applies to Bill.

Bill should have a 30-second shot every day or so, and that's all he needs to do.

Let's don't get Colson in the position where he makes the problem.

I say I think it's, I think there are wheels, kind of wheels here, you never know who's going to lose after him.

People know Postman.

But the reason, folks, is that people are always trying to hack into anybody who's affecting Postman, who's in the office, who's affecting political office.

Ronald C. Faust is a guy that's close to an angel, and funny thing is, he used to govern, I guess, he's gotten to govern Justice, and he's then gotten to Florida.

And he is a Republican, and as a guy that's kind of worked his way into the Senate, including the vote.

Right.

I always keep playing with him.

He is, I know, the only guy in the motion for him.

He's a promising leader.

It's a matter of his interests and himself.

He's a very hard player to stand with.

He's a player who can get the rest of the game.

Mitchell, also great by him, was pretty good.

He did a good job.

And I saw that there was something picked up that was about as good as Mitchell.

I didn't think Finch was the thing with her background that came off too well.

I don't know.

I mean, even if they're true, you shouldn't say it.

It's our issue.

I wonder if we should have our people try to do our interpretation.

I just not much for it.

That just wasn't obvious enough.

That's what the mistake was.

I heard strongly of the view that our people heard and thought, well, why don't you ask them?

They don't care about how it takes action.

Why do they feel what it takes?

And they don't ask you whatever they ask.

People are trying to give a background here about it.

characterizing the results of the election.

Well, I don't.

I think you should just tell the staff, and I don't want any of our character management, politically.

I don't think we want to.

See, they're going to get into the end of the evening.

Who is it?

I mean, they get a lot of stories about who's the strongest candidate, who's going up, who's going down, and so forth and so on.

I think our people, the White House, and I mean Benjamin, don't you say hello to that, too.

I think they should.

I think the White House is going to be extremely careful.

They've just got to stay away from those settings.

Can you get Bob away from them?

When he gets back down there, of course, I know when they go around.

I guess you can't do it so long, can you?

Sure.

How can they?

I'll get them talking to our colors and energy issues.

Maybe you have to develop a line for them, a line for them.

I know it's very hard for people to do it.

But I think the more it looks like you, and that means the White House, it's not.

You're just not paying any attention to politics.

You don't care.

Now, we've succeeded pretty well in doing that to the extent that even the fact that you're doing these dinners has been acclaimed as a great return to politics.

Now, this is kind of ridiculous.

So you obviously have to do your party and a little dinner.

That's the end of that.

No, we don't need anything from them appearing externally to be interested in or concerned one way or another.

I don't think we should be happy when things go good or sad and then go bad.

Either way, we don't care.

Let other people go out.

We shouldn't get the interpretations twisted that they shouldn't come from here.

They shouldn't look like they're your people.

I think what the White House needs is the worst.

The worst story about it, we could get a White House aide over and over again.

They pulled White House aides.

And I just started, I remember we had an order out of them before I put a muslin on mine now.

You know, that was part of the end of the problem.

Because, you know, the White House aides were clerked out.

And the White House aides were built up to the fact that, you know, Charlie Holden, how good the country was, you know, that bit.

fuel to that fire, kind of.

And, well, I've made a hundred examples, I mean, not a hundred, ten maybe, where White House aides, that I've noticed even under the senators, there must be a lot more.

You've got two notices.

They do talk.

Some do, and some they just don't.

They never make it up totally, though, Bob.

Nobody else says something.

Somebody has talked, you know.

I think it would be very well noted if we didn't talk about it.

Are you swashing in the same level as Steve Jackson and Flosky and Kennedy?

Instead of writing the speech of the White House, you lose the advantages that nobody else has.

We all know that the government,

for both of that all throughout it, except for the last.

And at the beginning, they turned it down one opportunity, and they calmed down.

Now, the point is that this is a very effective method.

The less political it is, the more effective it will be.

It won't be effective if they want to be dissimilar with the crowd on the other hand.

and all the rest of them.

But they need us to be, I think what they need is to be positive.

They need to be proud of the president and what's going on, making the world safe for democracy, generating peace, building economic posture and all that.

Mitchell's thinking is pretty good.

I thought it was very good.

I was surprised at the potential for much better writing.

You must have a better writer.

I mean, you wrote a nice one.

The Vice President's has got a .

Yeah.

No, but I don't think that even in a positive way .

Our weakness on our own staff is that we don't have any... We don't have any political writers.

Ray's aware of that.

He knows it's a reality.

Remember, that's why I was interested in that guy from Philadelphia.

I do think we're going to need one political writer.

It's the priest can't write that stuff.

He's got several groups.

It isn't up to him.

He gets some once in a while, but he isn't... No, but he isn't...

He doesn't take any bottles out of the building.

He's not a junior, not at all, but so cracked down.

Andrews is potentially one, but he's about five years away from us, you know, and he's very involved.

He's not very efficient, he's a sapphire, he's cute.

You can and it's good, but not for me.

Not anymore.

It really isn't.

Don't you agree?

Yes.

He is too slashy and bitter.

It's funny, we think back to the ship here, we realize that the ship currently can't.

That basically is, he will always be, he always is.

He's a contentious fellow.

He likes to fight.

But he has a deep, deep love for his mom.

And even if he can fight, I can't do it at all.

I can't bring it up all the time.

It's a great idea.

That was the humor, man.

I was trying to look something on through all this stuff.

And, you know, the night would be a great night.

I had one line that was a little bit funny, you know, but it's not there.

I'm not worried about it.

So I can wait 15 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes.

It may end up less than that.

You think?

Yeah.

Because I understand we have an hour pause.

That's right.

Now in New York, that's no problem because they don't expect to use the hour.

They expect to go on at 45 minutes.

So if you run a little bit more, you can go almost 15 minutes over.

Yeah, if you want to, yeah.

Well, I'll pay you $20,000 in New York.

But in Chicago, they go off a year at the end, and if they squeeze you, you'll have to leave because it's a specialty.

But that makes sense.

I'm bad at eating.

So we didn't know what was going on.

Okay, you realize the problem.

You find out that Jesus is gone.

They're not figuring on longer than you are.

They're only, they're figuring, you know, 15 minutes.

Well, I'm sure the other city can see that we're trying to proceed over.

Except they've been drilling because of it being on television.

The only hope is the TV will visit.

But it's just fascinating to me.

If you ever see one of them, nobody can do it.

If you tell them 10, they can't do 10 anymore.

Tell them 10, they do 15.

Tell them 1, they do 3.

5, they do 8.

I think it's what he's got to say is so important.

We've just got to add that other couple sentences.

He's thinking of me, buddy.

We're going to need it as we get further on.

We don't need it now.

I don't need it actually when I can move along, to be frank with you.

Well, that's it, Your Honor.

It isn't the kind of thing you need for this foreign base that you're moving into.

No, sir.

that early phase, but you are going to need it.

But you know, while you get down to the, you know, you get to September and October next year, it's got to be in place.

I didn't see it.

I tried maybe or something.

Well, that's it.

You've got to have somebody who's really in gear then, which means we need it now, even though you aren't going to use it.

Any more questions?

But Ray said the same thing.

I've had everybody here working on an exercise.

I gave them the month of October to figure out how they should restructure.

They just let me know by the end of October.

Then we're going to work it out and try and get it done so that by January 1st, we have basically a campaign organization set.

Then we start getting it into New Year's.

It takes a long time to find people.

And I don't look at breaking up their whole structure.

We've got to keep anybody where he is.

I think Ray missed out.

He's got something that you don't think really can wake him.

He should push him off over to the national committee.

Right?

We've got plenty of places to break him.

One of the things Ray's been concerned about that

And after we get to the start of it, it's somewhat joy to talk with Greg and get a lot of ideas from the two of you.

But they take an awful lot of time doing the suggested remarks, and he has a feeling that they're not on track with it.

And they're always going to.

And I told them that you find them helpful because they're simulating .

Well, I tried to judge them on the basis of not .

Otherwise, I don't read them.

I can't because they aren't on target.

On the other hand, when they sit down, here's the point.

I guess we remarked this.

If they were right in speaking, then I could sit down and work on it and so forth and so on.

But I'm suggesting to remark things.

Frankly, if they come up with one idea, that's all they need to do.

Because there, I put a little ball anyway, and I decided that I could read a goddamn thing.

And there, it's either me sitting down and just thinking and thinking and trying to think of an idea,

Or for them to sit down and think of 30 ideas of which one I use, but they write them all out and say, that's just the way it has to be.

And I think the speech team must never feel that because the other ideas aren't used, that, well, it maybe isn't helpful enough.

You see, the other way we could do it is, which of course everybody would know, if they could just sit down with me, then we could

We could work out what the remarks would do.

That will not do.

I cannot use my time that way.

No.

He doesn't suggest that.

What he's wondering is whether you really need them at all.

And I've said that you definitely do.

For what?

Yeah.

For Christ's sakes, how do you try to get along with them?

Well, each thing that you've done.

Of course.

You've got to suggest things on each night.

Oh, oh.

It seems to me that's the most important thing they do.

Oh, my God, what the hell are they going to do before those things?

Try to sit down.

I think great things, because you often, like the Indian summer thing, you can hold something that's even suggested, and of course, the weather is good.

But...

The point is still that at least you get something to start with.

It starts your juices flowing and you figure out something that you're going to do.

And all of a sudden, totally strange, most of the events are not ones that I want to put in my career.

Anyway, and I'll take any dam that I know they've got.

The other factor is the safety margin question.

You never know when the event is going to come if you aren't going to have any time.

That's right.

I mean, it might have been, now Mrs. Gandy, you did have time and took time to sit down and think through, but what if the price board had blown up that morning, right?

And you had to spend right up to arrival time doing a thing.

You could have looked at those remarks, picked up one of the things they had, and just thought, I'm done.

Which you often do anyway.

I mean, you almost always take something out of the stuff they do.

I always do.

Not their words, but their ideas.

I seldom ever do it.

They raise their resistance.

That's the important thing.

The fact that they give me an idea, then I'll work out the words.

Tell them not to spend so much time on the words, but just get some ideas in there.

That's what's needed.

Matter of fact, what they could do, let me say,

which might serve both purposes.

I think that they may spend too much time on honing the suggested remarks so that they're, you know, and I will never deliver them that way.

What I really need is like I'm now trying to do the press things a little more.

Just give me some, in other words, facts, ideas, you know, and so forth and so on.

Things that will stimulate some, so that I'll think of something where I can,

That's all you need.

Yeah, plus a panic dose, where, wherever you can get a little story that says, well, is that how the street picks, they have to come up with some of those that are not particularly good and some that are good.

At least they got something.

They're a damn hard to find.

I go into bed after bed after bed, and I just can't sit there.

They come up to me, they've got to have something on my head.

You know, I will do very little of what I am prepared to do tonight.

Pretty good feel.

Oh, it's nice a little bit.

Yeah, but what I meant is... Hello?

Yeah.

Hello?

Yeah, hi.

Hi, hi.

Oh, you're happy you did?

All right, well, I'll check on him, okay?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay, fine, it'll be great.

Well, I know that's an agony to prepare those samples.

But I can assure you that it's solely a question of getting the things in the way that I... Well, there's no problem with the time of preparation.

If it's useful to you, you can just...

I'm sorry, I'm trying to look at what could be, and I think this point is right.

Just put down a few of them.

Going for the ideas and the facts, statistics, anecdotes, and ideas, rather than...

reasons yeah and then but it's also the rate unstructured afraid of us are fine but they don't have to worry about getting a whole lot of fine right but i won't use it but you know there's some thoughts and things that you might be able to talk about the idea you know about

I thought it was extremely firm on the fact that you have to have clients.

Well, he's got two good options.

What?

If you take him and one of these guys, is that just too damn much?

He says, second.

All right.

He says, he makes a contribution to all of that.

But he says, I suppose I do.

So they're going to have a concomitant fight about the law and order at all, and the second class in Harvard Law School might be the one who will break the record.

But hey, we had a problem.

Because we didn't know what, because he wanted us in the court, and Mitchell was on him for the other thing.

I didn't write it in the other name, but that's fine.

We just didn't know.

Well, I don't know.

He mentioned the son of Collison.

He said it might not be apparent.

And Mitchell said, well, I don't know if I can be sure.

I don't know if I can be sure on our issues.

All right.

In seven I had a long thing yesterday.

It might be good discipline, but it sure looks odd.

No, I'm afraid you can't do that.

We can talk about all the discipline we want, but then you'll have more hell breaking loose.

You've got to remember that you've got to have him.

I don't know whether you're so clever or not.

I mean, I tried to lay it and said, he's put a high on his draw rate, and it's about high time he put a high on his draw rate all along.

Yeah.

Which is what he's been pushing all over town.

They don't pay a thousand on his draw rate, but

The fact is, we can prove it.

Every withdrawal amount that you've made has been higher than what he's recommended.

Every single one of them.

Except this one.

No, no.

If this one is the right, you're probably...

I don't know what's right.

He didn't give us...

He didn't give us... Well, we're not going to let him give us one.

I think what we should do...

I think what we should do, though, is to shout him to...

What people do is just simply say that for a reason, for a variety of reasons.

I don't, I don't.

I mean, my God, he was even describing the effect of it.

I thought it was really ridiculous when the Defense Department recommended it cut down in Korea and state, and the White House bought it.

But that is true.

The White House bought it and stated, I don't know, the state never bought it at all.

And I mean, this was Blair trying to play his line.

It's not that he could move the board.

He just took me and sent us the other night to the board.

He had to be called into the State Department, and they showed his documentary through, that they initiated the China interview.

Who did?

Who?

Ward?

Ward.

I don't know.

Buehler?

Buehler.

Yeah.

The New York Times guy.

No, no, no, no.

Washington Post.

What?

Stark.

I don't know.

I don't think he's a good, great guy.

Who called him over to see?

Well, he wouldn't tell Peterson the details, but he told Peterson that he had been given a very inside briefing that more than just verbal evidence that they had been pushing until since March 59, and then they finally did it.

Well, it was fine, I think.

The other scheduling problem is

The Brazilians are raising, have you come to you yet?

No, no.

The Brazilians are raising, holding cane.

They have it for about, well, two things.

One, can they go to Camp David?

Sure.

And the second... No problem on that.

That's what I was saying.

The second, which is the president, they would like you to come to this incident today.

Never.

No, never, never.

You can't compromise on that thing.

It's just memory screwing all of them.

It's probably the second day's statement.

We just don't do the return damage and that sort of thing.

Okay.

Camp David, but not the other one.

We're never going to get in the business to turn in and to drop by our protocols, the vice president does.

He should try to drop them by a cocktail party in the city on the 6th of February.

They really want to put it down.

Of course they do.

I'm not going to go.

We're going to, we're just, we're going to knock all those fake things off anyway next year, but they're setting a total waste of time.

So this is what we're going to do.

We're going to get the campaign in there.

We got a message to the Chinese as well.

You see, they're arriving to the U.S.

I believe I've ever said that again.

So, man, we can...

I've got a check, but they won't do it.

They won't do that.

You know.

These are some you have met.

Yeah.

They've been very...

I've often...

At one stage, I asked whether I, in an emergency, could use that as an honor when it was going on.

So I wanted to apologize to the personal secretary of the show, the head of the secretariat, who was a ambassador of John A.

Hunt.

would you tell Bob about the South Latin American trip that you were supposed to talk about that I tried to do this morning?

Well, very briefly, I'll tell you.

Rogers is a state that's coming up with something that they want to discuss with Jamaica to see the blacks.

And I'm on the way back.

In fact, I won't do either.

I've decided that under the circumstances, I just don't.

I want to use Bucker Rogers today, though, and say that we've just done a tremendous, with phase two, state of the union, the budget.

uh, everything else, but I can't spend a week on this trip.

Do you know what I mean?

Now, for your private information, I will no longer go to the gymnasium, that goddamn place, and see all those damn flags and flags.

They're not anywhere, they're not where it's going.

You'll say to them, we have to stop for fuel, we'll find some stuff for fuel someplace else.

What, what about them on the delgates and dairy and gas?

I don't think so.

Because the difficulty there is there's always the possibility of an anti-American demonstration almost through the Panamanians.

They've still got that.

He's a dictator.

And also, we've still got the problem of that Panama Treaty thing.

I don't want to do that.

I don't want any chugging.

I don't think there's anything that we get, frankly.

At one time, it might be worthwhile to do various gas and so on, but you can't do that some other time.

Exactly.

I could plow down to Panama or Miami sometime and do various gas.

This should aim only at the visit.

I think we should just aim to go down there and have a visit for three days and come back.

In other words, I just can't spend that much time flying.

Because it's a day down and a day back, this is a hell of a long wait.

Canada or something like that.

It's tremendous.

And when it's all such, you can't do nothing.

Look at it.

Compare it to Europe.

Twice as far.

Anyway.

Anyway, that's our plan.

Sleep on the way back.

Maybe make a two-day visit down there with them.

I don't know.

They lie down one day, get there that night, meet the next day, have the dinner that second night, meet up the following day, and then fly home that night.

We can do it, but just point out the mountain.

If Bill raises the Jamaican, I don't want to get the State Department to actually want you to cover all the places you can.

I just want you to obfuscate all you can.

I just don't want to go up there.

I don't want to go to those blacks.

I don't know.

They're too small.

They're little, old countries.

They're not worth my time.

And Panama, I just think we ought to save for another trip.

And I'll flip down to Miami sometime to do that.

But let's do it in December and get it done then.

If we can.

I think we need to do that because we're going to get it stacked up.

Oh, right.

Look here.

I've got to get a lot of stuff pushed also in the center because it's a good time to get it all festered out of the way.

Well, if you've got the ground in January, you can do that.

You know, it's good to be content.

You know, it's too bad it's almost too late.

I'm not so sure, though.

We don't want to get this stuff on.

I'm sure we don't want to get some of this stuff on the track earlier than that and get some movement.

But let's see.

He wasn't today.

He hasn't had an accident.

In fact, he's going to get back tomorrow.

I'm going to get him back for him.

I'm not sure that he's pushed into the presidential seat.

And we'll have an answer by the end of this week.

We'll push December with that.

We told them that Toby would be the first guy we'd see.

From our point of view, now, if he'd behave his best, we'd be able to see Toby the 3rd, Trump the 2nd, and me the 3rd.

You know, in the name of tradition.

We've got plenty in December.

We've got plenty this year.

as soon as they get home to do at the Latin American address, they can come and track me every day.

Who comes at you at this thing?

Is the state of the Brazilian director what they ask about?

They should go to Bob.

No, no, no.

I don't want them to go through the NLU.

They don't usually go to me, but this one.

Usually they don't come to me at all.

But this led to a brawl between Mosbacher and Castro, and they threatened to cancel it badly.

And they threatened to cancel the visit.

and that's how it came to me.

Why would a hospital, a hospital should put a bottle on that.

Schedule it.

You see, he's really, we shouldn't have to follow him.

He does this, but then he'll still go on and on.

We just didn't want to visit the campus.

We'll give him a camp date if there's never been any question of that, right?

We're stuck with that now with all the visitors.

I don't mind with them.

Middle of the week, give it to them.

Tell Mossbaker it's a hell of a big thing, but Mossbaker's got it under the array.

There's never any chance for a return.

They just don't ever rephrase the plan.

They've been told they have no chance.

A return there is impossible.

We're delighted to have you at Camp David.

They don't even know it's coming to Google, so we're doing it.

Well, the main thing is that Camp David, I asked him if he was my personal guest.

I put that right on him.

Tell Mossbaker I have a personal guest at Camp David with a return.

Unfortunately, there isn't.

And if you were talking to Rogers today, before telling him about the trip, then you've got to work out the discussion.

He doesn't know about the brand thing, does he?

Yes.

So don't mention that.

And don't mention competition.

But if you would just say, put it all on the domestic stuff, Bob.

We've just got to have this time cleared, phase two and all that sort of thing.

Apart from that, the bill of the state government should see this.

For me to take off a week to lollygag around through the bunch of goddamned banana republics is ridiculous.

You'd have to have a dinner in Panama.

You'd have to have one of Jamaica with steel drums and all that.

you go down the other place you shot a whole god damn way farther out it's terrible i've got to go down and do it for two days and come back now he says well that's that's not enough and i said well it's just cold cold better than that i don't think it's that important anyway we're just doing this for that purpose but they want a two-day meeting i'll go down for two days

Yeah, yeah.

I was going to say that I got it.

But I was going to say that in reading the story, the story did give you the decisions made before.

And I'm comfortable that these people did.

The Indians, well, I think there's only the Indians, I doubt it, who leaked it first, but I think State probably counts on it.

They want to take credit for the fact that we are doing this and that and the other thing.

I think it's a disastrous policy from every point of view because it makes an Indian attack more likely.

to the Pakistan army, out of spare power, now beaten, they have to turn to China.

Well, but China don't have that much.

And they don't have that kind of power.

They don't have that kind of power.

So even the adults in India may figure this is a good chance to get it done effectively.

People are concerned about the people of Pakistan.

Under Indian rule, they're really going to be suppressed because the Indians have every incentive not to permit Bengali nationalism to develop.

That's because they're afraid that this was the investment going away.

So I think it's a short-sighted public to decide to placate a few senators who are going to be against it no matter what.

And it's very unhelpful of the Chinese to put it that way.

And above all, to think about it to me, this is not built because

These guards heard you.

They were in here.

Since May, now they've been anna'd the color of arms, and now they've finally made it.

I didn't know they were color-optimists, what a crazy thing.

That's right.

I know.

You?

Well, I didn't know it until three weeks before, when it was too late already, because they'd already made the commitment.

They asked you for authority to explore with the Pakistanis whether we could trade economic aid for military aircraft.

And they placed that into a, uh, into giving a deadline for the coming of the Browns, which you had turned out to be done directly.

And once you got them in here, I told them that... Do you think we have to get them in more often?

No.

I think they have to... That's the whole point.

Maybe we don't have to bring them in more often.

They're here tomorrow.

No.

They do it as often as they can.

The basic attitude of bureaucracy is when you tell them something they don't like, especially the State Department, then they'll just go around you as much as they can.

After you're in the election, they really think in the national interest.

There has to be brutal leadership over there, and a major husbandry.

And Cisco has to go.

The region has to go.

that they all need to go.

I don't think you can start with any of those new centuries over there.

And here, still, you may not know it, and they don't even clear any schedules with me anymore.

They don't show that to me.

I read them like anyone else.

They are again starting another initiative.

It's again not going to succeed, but it's better they're expanding for nothing.

It's...

I mean, if we carry it through our game plan, it can still be done, which I doubt.

The Israelis would be more brutalized than under anything that they've done.

But at least we've come to a conclusion.

We wouldn't be spending time with them at a time like that.

What was the North Vietnam?

bombing thing, that was really protective to us.

That was another, this is the deepest penetration of duty, and they tried to make all the shit out of that.

It was another, also, kick that we dropped more bombs and guns, and I hope so.

Well, it's not true.

The fight is.

Why didn't you have a perfect answer?

Why, of course, we're withdrawing our forces, and the purpose is to keep the infiltrators from returning to our forces.

He is driving away with a damn lot of money.

President, we are dropping more bonds.

Obviously, this is a statistical joke.

We're dropping more bonds in Cambodia because nobody's dropping bonds.

So they can say a thousand percent increase in Cambodia.

In Vietnam, we cut it down by over 60% because there's no war going on.

In Laos, we have stepped it up slightly in Northern Laos.

But what they are never admitting, the total number of Saudis has declined by 65% in the years that have passed.

And that is a fact.

And so everything else, we were flying

Whether it's a Cornell study, some university.

That's a left-wing guy, Castro Bezacadino, from Cornell, who's been putting out the Hanoi line.

It's in 65.

Isn't it awful?

It was a goddamned press entry to give us such a delay.

But it shows you how thin they are on the issues that come out of it.

We are bombing.

What are we?

The only thing we are bombing intensively right now is the whole treatment chain.

Oh, I hope we are.

It's an Elliott.

I can still justify going more bombing for a reason.

The bombing of Cambodia and the bombing of Iran is to protect the remaining forces on the ground.

And all this business about our destroying troops,

All this business about the refugees and so forth was true.

Yeah.

But secondly, what they're really saying is we've got to surrender on that basis.

Fighting to defend the Russians was the focus of what was also immoral.

It also killed people if they had surrendered.

But they were starting concentration camps, which they conveniently never had.

That's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I agree with you, totally, in your feeling about Hilaire, but I think he would be more of a problem.

We don't see him.

It's such a cheater.

It's awful.

Goddamn, we told him right here.

You told him what the rate was.

So this bastard, did I?

You told him you were stepping it up.

You were stepping it up considerably.

Are you sure that I gave him the number?

Remember, we told Robert, but I don't think we told him.

I'm not sure you gave him.

No, he was going to come back and give us a number.

But the fact is, he knows you can step up the race.

He knows, for the sake of the presidency, he ought to give you the credit for it.

Every one of these bastards goes around town taking credit for things you've done.

As it happens, every withdrawal, you were the one who pushed the withdrawal.

Every one, every single figure you developed, it's always been larger than what he recommended.

They don't pay us off on that because of November 28th words.

Oh, yeah.

He will be in good shape, and if not, he will still not be a pretty good shape.

But Laird's, thank God we haven't told him about the private meetings.

Oh, he's been a little bit late.

I mean, as a writer, it's all of us faults to not leave.

Laird is a son of a bitch, and I'll leave here.

Laird, uh, Rogers is not pissed with a piston.

He has to draw it, you know.

Rogers is funny in another way.

He doesn't leave.

He claims credit for things that have worked.

Ha!

But he doesn't believe in that information.

I think we should just let it rise, or what do you think?

Sometimes.

You've got to get it out there.

Well, I think Mr. President, in the world report this year, we ought to put out a little bit.

I think this...

We ought to put out last year, we wrote a superb world report which got tested on because of love.

Because they didn't want to give you credit.

This time I think we ought to put it out about two weeks before you go to China.

On February 8th.

Right, right.

They can't very well knock you down before you go to China.

We can have major achievements.

I mean, we can really put all of last year's achievements into one document.

Yeah, by that time, too, we can put in the idea about the Vietnam War.

Exactly.

And this time, they just got to play.

Well, get it going.

Don't tell anybody.

Somebody's going to try to get you to punch.

No, no.

I've got it going.

But I may have to take my people off somewhere.

Sure, of course.

Of course.

You'll do that.

But that's one of the other good reasons that they keep this damn South American trip down to a minimum.

Goddamn, you know?

I mean, I just didn't know how typical that is to speak.

Goddamn, it's a waste of president's time screwing around with Jermaine.

Yeah.

And him.

But what this guy's a joke.

His contrasts, they are the worst.

Oh, you've seen Shearer.

You would know what to talk to these guys about.

You saw him?

He's a child.

And my life is too risky.

There's nothing to be gained.

You would run any risk for a big objective.

No.

There's nothing to be gained there.

I think Argentina or wherever, Argentina, Argentina, Brazil.

Brazil wouldn't make any sense except after the United States.

So maybe you're on the China thing now.

It sounds to me like this is a Marshall Green point.

Well, what the hell are they talking about in March of 69?

What the hell did they ever say about China?

Oh, I see.

That's it.

But they didn't do that.

Eliot would be the first man to say that we did another thing.

You remember that's when Poland and Hansen came in to see you in June.

to warn you against the Romania, which was really part of the China floor.

They were all against everything.

There is someone here.

The resumption of the world of talks, they were against in the way you did it by sending the man up to the Chinese.

And most of the messages, I have a book that's taken the messages that you can see.

They haven't seen it yet?

No.

That's the kind of thing that will blow them out of the water once it's done.

But I think next year, maybe after the summit, Mr. President, we might consider getting in a group of really senior people who might do it outside.

Yes, sir.

Oh, I think it's all got to come out before the election.

Before the election.

We have got to do it.

We cannot, we just cannot allow this unconscionable thing, for Christ's sakes, where next year everything's got to point to the president.

God, Blair doesn't have to run.

Rogers doesn't have to run.

And if I go on television, you know, we could easily, I could in a very matter-of-fact way, somebody asks about China, I could just,

In a very modest way, you say, well, this is the way the president did it, period.

And then let the goddamn State Department whine.

We've gone really overboard in that respect.

I think Dwight was, you know, giving Rockers credit and all that sort of thing.

For Christ's sakes, he was known about it all the time.

And he was part of the planning.

Yeah, but the state knows this.

The state knows it, Dwight.

Oh, damn, they must be dying.

I guess they're dying too, aren't they?

Yeah, it's a difficult day.

They wrote a briefing book for my trip, which was so bad.

But I couldn't even read it.

One of my people with a small stand did the reading book which you saw.

Yes, I know.

So now I have to say, whatever was achieved on the second trip was due to their reading book.

That reading book was a huge... Can you say that?

I don't know.

Due to their reading book.

Please see yours.

No, you wouldn't.

No, I'll give you both.

Oh, never mind.

Listen, Henry, I've seen State Department briefing books going back to 1953.

They are not worth a damn.

They were not worth a damn, believe me.

And I've been through it.

As vice president, I had to wing it by myself pretty much.

They're unbelievable.

Unbelievable how bad they are.

And I think what is really driving the Democrats crazy is that it's just too good a chance that everything's going to work out.

I think if we bring off these negotiations, we ought to prove the problem.

Oh, listen, listen, there's only going to be even a second thought on that.

Just wait a little.

That's it.

Even down the line.

I think we ought to crucify them, actually, Henry.

Don't bring up the negotiations.

But still, we made our final... And we made our final things, and I don't care what you're doing.

It's beautiful.

And if we ought to publish the press list as late as possible for China, my impression is...

to the love of these guys.

Being nice to one man?

No, because, listen, you tell Xavier that I'm going to take the press people myself.

I'm going to be to everybody I don't want.

I'll let them come to me.

For example, Kraft is sucking it up now.

You'll never get to go.

I know.

Don't tell him, I agree.

But I mean, I don't talk to him.

But he can hold the press people.

That's what I did three weeks before Xavier.

or just so they get time to get their shots and stuff.

That's all.

Maybe Jews.

But these guys are really dying to go.

I've got to get more control of the thing, to put in a good word for them.

And the Chinese.

That's what I do.

Good night, Mr. President.

Well, anyway, good to be here.

Good day to you.

Thank you.