Conversation 308-013

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

And figure it out he's already

I don't know about that because I've been such a changing person.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Then they knew that they were taking the goddamn stuff out of the briefcase.

That's what gets me, you know, that goes too far, you know.

Leave it.

But, uh, that's what I mean.

Chips.

They know where they're going.

Because they didn't control the air.

They know where they're going.

It's a possibility to control the air, but all you have to do is gather the service and go.

Right.

Go on.

You know, that thing could kill the services.

The services, it would mean that all the services having their own

all espionage systems, their own espionage systems, and a spine gets present.

So, very, very, it just, it's like that, that night at Camp Davidson, that's where they hit me.

Exactly, and I was raised all of those specter heroes, the military takeover, the power of Dracula.

That's what I know.

You're so right, but you can't let it get out.

You can't let it get out of your life, you can't let it get out of your life.

Jackass.

Is there any way we can do it?

I don't know.

Maybe find some others?

I don't know.

They're bad believers, they're bad martyrs, they're bad Catholics.

We always think if you see a Catholic, you see an anti-communist.

It's not quite like if you see a Catholic priest, he's probably going to be a communist.

There's not a beer in the rest of the world.

There's not a beer in Notre Dame.

Well, I'll tell you, actually, you probably about a week, you want to take off more, but that's it around here.

You know, you're worried.

And now that John is apparently dead at some point in the mission, he's been trapped under this cover.

We just wanted to open your arms one more time.

So we'll start working on that.

I don't know how you're going to deal with this.

Yes, sir.

I've got to tell you, it's all good for you.

Thank you.

Yeah, they know damn well something's going on, but in fact, we're not talking.

You see, it's kind of worrying.

Don't you agree?

I just don't believe it.

You just go flirting with people right away.

It's kind of worrying.

We'll see what kind of fences they dig.

God, what a movie.

Well, then the movie wouldn't believe it.

I always do.

Mr. President.

What is the situation there?

We're too pleased on that.

We saw the culmination of the court meeting today with Rex and Paul.

They're such, and you know, I never met their fans, but they look just like us on Facebook.

They just look great, didn't they?

They're wonderful people.

They're precious people.

And their wives are going to be, they're going to be adored by God.

It's a very big problem.

Incidentally, let me ask you something before we get to anything else.

I don't mean they're all going to be together.

But is Stewart going to go, is George Thomas going to go first?

Yes, I had a guess.

Yes.

And I attest that the others will probably find it more astounding to deal with the government than this political bloc.

We have a hard time, as a part of the American Congress, advancing the art of selection.

But now you may go with the, particularly what you've got in both Carl and Frank was fine, legally fine, and you argue them hard in his conferences where they've come to the conclusion that you do have this hard given stage, or they really go at it.

In some cases, they only have three or four days, and in some cases, they have

I don't think that our story will be under the same dominating influence as it was before with Warren Brenner and Douglas Black.

Before it was Black.

The brains were all on the other side.

Now, let's see, the brains will line up.

Black is gone.

But what the hell?

You've got Brennan.

Who are the leaders?

Brennan, Thurgood Marshall, and Douglas

And also the big man.

He was a very big man, but he was a very big man.

He was a very big man.

.

Well, why don't you say this, leaving out 1st Street, Rehnquist without question can hold himself to Douglas.

He's younger than Douglas, which means that he'll have more management

And he's just as good a brain, isn't he?

He is just as good a brain.

In addition to that, he's just as low.

He's just as low.

That ain't true.

Of course, the Justice Department, I've seen good people do this.

Where he would say, I'm very low.

By the deep, dark of the heart, he's low.

The officers were able to just take the paper and go on to the front of the election when some of the academic questions came up or had a good conversation with the province.

You are a person.

You can hear names.

I don't know whether that's Dan Marshall.

He's pretty healthy.

He's back.

Well, he's not very healthy.

But he's back.

God bless you.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Yes, there's a number of them, but none of them, you know, you can't prepare them overnight.

Oh, the age of seeing them.

Ten years.

Ten years before they know anything.

And then ten years more before they are seen.

Well, what?

Any connection with those girls who have no idea what they're doing or what they're saying?

I don't know.

Well, he'd be a fine court member.

He'd be more of a judge of the city.

You see, it would fit nicely if it were Devinus.

Because he is Western.

If it were Devinus, Devinus is the in-circuit judge for the 10th Circuit of the Supreme Court.

I know from the West Coast, I don't know what it is, but I think it's the most fabulous thing.

Yeah.

It's great shape, and it's metal.

It's good.

It feels fine.

A lot of people might be concerned.

It's great.

He didn't go over that crap about breakfast being racist.

He knew that was unfair.

Absolutely.

And of course, you divide it with power.

You divide it with vote votes.

And it's gone.

And I don't know if that's going to be in court.

I don't know if it's going to take off.

And I'm very good at getting back to minutes.

You know, one thing I believe is that some great of us will take an arm's load.

We've been working three times a month.

Don't you think?

Oh, great.

Yes.

You know, it kind of sort of has to be to get work done.

My God, that's a wonderful thing to do.

Don't you think it helped us in Virginia in his appointment?

I don't think the Supreme Court's appointment didn't help down there.

I would say that it's getting across the country, John, that you deal with.

It's one of those sleeper kind of issues, isn't it?

So we finally got some credit for it.

I know they had that one article, an article or two in the Nixon Court, and all that crap.

But what do you think?

I think it's good.

I don't know.

I'm talking to other people about it.

I read some Charlie Moore.

That's great.

Does he?

Sure.

You know what I mean?

Sure.

But I meant to build on it.

That's right.

But I meant to build on it.

of the Ainsworth and Carrasco with it coming on top.

It really did.

And they paid attention to the real estate.

And two, another thing, the liberals, of course, you know, played right in your hands.

Because they finally realized, much too late, the tremendous stakes that were involved in changing the court.

And we finally got to change the court, right?

Four records.

and they would have done anything.

The pressure is really .

Well, they go further than that.

They want me to send up one of .

... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Yep.

They're so used to...

I said we're going to need to know what we're playing for this year's time.

I know they are, I know.

I know.

Very good defense, but this...

He sat down to write us a narrative for the court.

He had credit for it.

He had credit for it, because...

I'm not...

I'm not trying to take it over.

Oh, I understand.

It ain't worth my credit.

They don't bother me with it.

But I think you're right.

You've got to have a fight in order to make the issue.

We've had the fight.

Now we've got credit for the South.

For one chapter, we don't have two, but one.

We've got all the credit.

The South loves it.

Oh, sure.

Well, let's go around and see what we can do again.

I don't think we could have gotten any better.

I didn't do a lot of work.

Well, we've done our damage.

You know, these international leaders, John, are doing extremely well.

Connelly has just been a goddamned power struggle.

He has just been a goddamned power struggle.

We've never made a deal with this last week.

He's got to come out of his own hands.

He knows how to run the show.

He's got those nails, though.

He can fly anything.

I just love Bill Morgan.

Oh, yeah, I know you so.

Yeah, I know you so, doesn't it?

Thanks.

That's what Bill was.

He said it was the greatest thing that's happened in this country in 20 years.

He's a big fan.

He's been back with us.

The International Auditorium.

The Bill again.

The American Express, they were all there to do it.

Yeah.

He was brilliant.

And he thinks it was great, huh?

Yeah.

And he admired it.

Justin Drew, Sean, and Karen was there.

He said it showed them what I want to go and show.

He was very good.

He started to write, articulate stuff, and he was good.

He was telling me about how the thing that a devotee of Jim Rhoades, he listed Jim Rhoades, and wasn't too rich, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on,

I can tell, you know, I don't have time for 30 minutes, but I can tell that a couple of things that he said was right on.

There you go.

I've heard it from Bill Morton.

He said that one of the greatest mistakes was that they were all on the insurance bill and the banks and all the rest of it.

And they thought about any of the equations of credit.

Which are tremendous.

Tremendous.

And they were paying any attention to it.

He took one billion dollars.

He kept every minute going back to the credit.

The credit.

And finally went after the rest of it.

Yes, remember him, Jonathan.

Is he a lawyer?

Yes.

He's a lawyer.

He taught us rule work.

He's a lawyer.

He was one of the dissenters in the state legislature that won against the Gilligan tax program.

Well, some of the Republicans went with him.

And with the lack of leadership out there, it was Washington who said that they could have had Gilligan on the cross.

But there was nobody out in the state to take attention.

I know, I know.

It's hard to deal with, but he isn't good

I met with him the last time on Monday of this week.

He wants to be a consultant to me.

In other words, he wants me to go back and, you know, why don't you set up a little committee of senior consultants and publicize it.

So you can say that the nine wise men, that would make me a very good thought, taking nine guys across the way.

Actually, we're going to need one of each of those tapes.

That's correct.

It gives you a chance to recognize people.

We're also a company.

Sure.

You won't be just getting your checks from your own boys.

That's absolutely right.

Of course, what else would a game this time around have?

knowledgeable people from the outside monitoring.

Yeah, but this will be great for us because it will give us another background.

It will also provide a check on everything we do and we won't have to get tied up with a faction.

We don't have to pay a faction or vote a faction.

We don't need a faction.

But if SACS could be implausible, we've got a block there.

So we're here.

Yeah.

We have a relative, Kirk, of course.

He was a very strong believer in what was more important for the Republican faction.

Kirk also, that will hold down that Cleveland vote for him.

Mr. President, do you remember Dave Young?

Yes, sir.

How are you?

How are you, Dave?

Are you safe?

They wanted to give us a little update.

I'd like to hear it.

You use that word, I suppose.

I use it every day.

Every day.

Boy, I want him after me.

We had him a long time ago.

And he confirms practically everything that he only testified to.

I would say that there's no question

that this young man was caused courage to go through the burned bags.

He came back from the two trips, one with Henry, one with Al, and turned over to his boss.

Which one did you go with, Henry?

You went to the China trip.

The first secret China trip.

He was on that?

Yes, sir.

He didn't go in?

He didn't go in.

He stopped.

But when he returned, he turned over to people.

He turned over to his admiral.

Everything.

In the way of carbons.

I want to ask the question, how long has this practice been going on just in this administration?

We don't have any way to know.

We ought to find out.

They're trying to spy on us.

Why the hell didn't they spy on Johnson and Kennedy?

The office has existed for 11 years.

Okay, go ahead.

So I would like for you in your further investigation to get that kind of information.

I don't know how long ago it was established, what kind of men have been in it, whether or not, for example, Roscoe did this when he was here.

I'd like to know whether he was inspired.

The function of the office has changed.

of this administration because of Bain.

Bain would have been this guy, except that he was promoted to assistant for him.

So they moved another guy into the office, and that's very silly.

But the long and short of this is that anything and everything which was in any way produced or laid on a strip of the Vietnam administration time was delivered to

this background for him to go through.

He pulled out the things which he thought were particularly interesting and turned them over to Orrin.

And he openly reports to Orrin.

He doesn't report to anybody else.

And he described it to Orrin some of the antagonisms.

He told him the fact that he will not report to any of the other drug chiefs.

I don't know if it's from Orrin, obviously.

Now, the other thing that this guy does is to, on occasion, he will be given a whole file of documents from the, what do they call it here, the information.

And he will take that file in

and give it to his boss, and ask him if there's anything there that they would be interested in.

And this guy then goes through it, systematically, and pulls out the things, not test it for them at all, but maybe to you or to anyone.

Anything that happens to be in the file for distribution at that time.

Pull it out, say I want this and this and this and this.

The guy replicates it, puts the original back in, puts it back into the browser.

And then that was it.

Tell me, do you have, what is your information as to whether Henry knew this was being done?

He tells us, the admiral says, neither Henry nor Haig knew this was going to happen.

Then why in the hell did he say that he couldn't talk until he got through?

Well, it was all right.

It was all right.

I see.

What do you think?

Do you think Henry knew this?

Henry would never know.

I don't think Henry would ever let anybody think that a back-channel thing, for example, would go tomorrow.

We don't go.

We say that a back-channel will lead me.

We've played lots of them.

There have been more back-channel games played in this administration than any in history because we couldn't trust the goddamn State Department.

You know that.

But the one key thing is that the best example we have is that Henry would go up the wall and do what they did.

It was called the Camp David bomb, which was, you know, the secret service in Vietnam.

It was embarrassed.

And it was one that was on that, which the open got Dave Wellinger, and he said, you know, this is the first that the world and any of the other people in the United States do know about.

And I'm sure there's many that don't know about that.

Now, does the Admiral know, well,

The admiral, if he doesn't want to know, did he know that he was getting stuff from Henry's briefcase and this and that?

He claims not.

He knew that he was getting...

I'll take that.

He admitted that the stuff he got off the trips was extremely important.

And he said that could have been briefcase, it could have been anything.

He does not know of any instance, he said,

where stuff has been taken for briefcases here in the office.

But we don't know.

We think there was a guy who testified that he did that.

But, bear in mind, he worked for two admins.

He worked for Robinson first.

Now, he admitted, in response to what I have to admit is a really good question, at that point, Robinson

Broke him in.

Turned this yoke over to him.

He said, in effect, this guy is a hell of a good burglar.

He can give a lot of stuff, but your boss will want to know.

And he put it, said the way he phrased it, that's the way I phrased it, and he read through it.

And he said, if I'm going to change this, then it's not worth it.

The only kind of instruction we can say that Matthew ever got, according to Matthew, was God's intelligence.

Now, is there anything in particular

that I ought to be keeping my eyes and ears open for on this trip.

And he would say, in a case of hatred, he said, yes, we were very concerned about the troop levels and withdrawals and so on.

He gave him certain sort of specifications, things that he particularly keen on.

And here's kind of how this was going.

He doesn't remember that he had just delivered on this trip.

So, you know, it's simply this.

When first was and now when I think, and he does need to reopen very quickly to help him out and someone to help take notice.

And Admiral Robinson is here.

Admiral Robinson is a great guy.

He was fairly good at that.

Now, Mr. Ripken, you know, I'll take him along.

And Peter was.

I don't know.

And he was very, I mean, he is very good.

Sure, I can say that.

It is very deep remorse.

It is the product, I think, of a lot of anguish on his part.

It is the fact that he realizes he's checkmated, that either he's responsive to us or else he's up against us with a commanding chief.

And it's just an irresistible force.

You realize it was his whole career from the law.

Exactly.

And I talk to him about the implications.

And he said, I see what they are.

He said, they are very serious, and I know it.

And he said, I'm not proud of you.

And they're all at Gallipoli's duty to do it.

I'm concerned.

That's why he ordered you.

That's why he was here.

You're talking about the admiral?

Yeah.

The admiral.

Does the admiral know that the...

He knows now that we believe that he's young.

I don't want you to know that I was in the Radcliffe.

The Radcliffe is the cult that turned this crap over to Anderson.

He believes that himself.

And there you go.

We have just virtually conclusive evidence now.

And the chain of circumstances is incredible.

This man, Admiral, what was his name?

Well, wrote a talking paper for himself.

so that he could talk to Hay about how to leak, leak movements, if we wanted that information to seep out.

That's what I told Henry to do that.

All right.

He wrote it.

I said the purpose being that we wanted to get the word out.

So, Welder went home and wrote this out longhand at home.

Came to work, had his youngman type it for him.

An original copy.

The copy was for Hay.

took it over in the afternoon to talk to Kate about it, and discovered that other decisions had overtaken him.

So he never took it out of his pocket.

Brought it back, sealed it up, and put it in his safe.

In his very exact image.

Hold on.

Now, nobody else has that.

Right.

And he named his memo, his talking points here, that have to do with the fact that he changed the cards up,

of course, it's very important what Anderson is doing.

Say nothing.

Don't give any credibility to his story.

Deny it all.

Say he's lying.

Right.

But you see, there was no circulation on that document.

Well, that's the one that nailed him.

That's the one that nailed him.

And they figured that either Henry or the Admiral or Haig did the damage.

Well, but they didn't see him.

The Admiral and his young man are the only two people in the world.

Oh, there you go.

You see?

So either the Admiral gave an answer to himself and then you

Because the admiral knows I've been here.

I mean, that is the problem.

Because when I went through the pieces together, see, I had only... That nailed it.

That nailed it.

I had only the cables, and I called up to find out what else.

But yeah, I didn't know anything about the pieces before.

I don't know where they came from.

What is there to pick out today?

What is there at the present time for actors doing in Silicon Hall?

Well, he didn't do any interrogation, so that's not shocking.

Now, we had him over there, and we were questioning him.

How old was he?

How old was he growing up?

He said he never talks to anybody else except for the reporters.

He was never heard from that one.

There was an acting chief.

He never delivers the pure stuff.

He only paraphrases what he has to.

Now, the other thing he does is better things.

So if we had God's word for us, it would get us to have that.

Well, would you like to have intelligence on the idea of a department like that?

We've never succeeded.

I don't even know what the hell's going on in justice.

Well, that's good.

Here's the other thing.

When Henry develops that agenda,

Moore gets the agenda for the meeting, the staff backup papers, and Henry's talking paper in advance of the meeting.

So that he's sitting there looking down Henry's throat.

Let me say this.

In this case, of course, as you say, John, with Moore and Craig,

or I have total confidence that he's on our side.

I just wish he'd asked and we'd give it to him.

But nevertheless, the only other point about the thing that is very, very bad about this that we have to watch, that's right, we have to be so hard on this thing.

I just think that John, when this story got out, he would be used to destroy the services.

He would destroy, it's like the night of Camp David, remember?

Here's the services setting up

They're all despicable and so forth.

Spying on the president.

Don't you agree that's the way it's done?

Your intellectual friends wouldn't be worried about it.

Well, there's another element to this, and that is that, as David says, Henry and the gun keeps are very close.

They're his best ally.

Yes, sir.

Laird is not.

Laird knows very well about this.

How does he know?

He knows because Dr. Carter is Deputy Assistant Secretary.

I see the investigation branch is not under the front reach of some of the civilians.

You haven't.

You weren't, by the way.

We didn't tell you.

We don't have to.

That's the last story we write up to him like a percolator.

I'm sure that that's the reason why.

May I ask this?

Do you think Larry had all these

More, do you think more total layers that would happen?

I don't think so.

Thank God.

You see, it was on Thursday night, we had that interrogation, and the operator came out and said that he won't go on this hesitation because it was something he was talking about, and he didn't react, and I said, well, you have to tell us everything.

I said, well, I'm very home.

I said, call me at 5 o'clock, and I said,

right now the next day was fighting a very wanted these guys

They did all their men constantly in that barn.

And they, I'm not saying they're credit, they're investigators in the pen.

They stuck with it, and they put it all in there.

Now, when I went over that Monday morning, the thing was, we're going to farm the guy out, and we're going to take his thing, and we're going to do that.

And that was when I told you, we started to hold it and put it so that they wouldn't wind it up.

Because I think by that time later, Monday morning, that is time.

He said, hold it.

And he said, yes, sir.

And I went in, and they had my confidence.

They said, well, there's got to be some adjustment.

There's adjustment.

And then we're going to spend the time together.

So I got the investigation.

And then I came back here.

I got out of it.

I got

but we have the whole story where he goes through and he names all the people that he thinks that they are strong.

Exactly.

Well, that's what you know very well.

Well, apparently that access

It's just about anything.

He had access, but he didn't leave.

He has not.

Is there anything else in there?

Jordanian.

Sure.

The Jordanian thing, he had access to both of those and the last four or five articles, the Jordanian letter came to you and he had the whole thing.

About the heirloom.

That was in there, but they didn't have the whole letter.

He had access to that.

But as they go back through, they're all going to get it.

Yeah, yeah.

That's right.

All right.

Revealing.

Revealing the letter.

You know, it was... Yeah, this is actually when...

The letter came in before he knew we were on to it.

And he had access to it.

Right.

It's a bird, you know.

No, no.

In fact, one of them in the column actually came in on Monday or Tuesday, and we had dinner with Anderson on Sunday night.

But then Anderson did it and got me a story on Monday.

Yeah, I'm going to hour by hour.

And out of that came the fact that Anderson and his wife stopped by the apartment on Friday night.

Listen, John, are you tailing Anderson out of the... You see, you're surveilling the house to see whether Anderson's still calling.

But what you're saying is that after he's moved, you're on to him.

The other thing that worries me about this, and it would worry Henry even more, this is the new higher morality idea.

that now Ellsberg did it, and everybody thinks he's fine.

And now this guy's done it.

The reason I ask if he did it, if he'd been leaking to Anderson for 13 months, it's not the higher morality.

If, on the other hand, he's leaking only stuff that he believes in, which is different from offers, which would then be in Pakistan, it's the higher morality.

And that, to me, is a very disturbing thing.

We don't know that.

Weller doesn't know that.

Does he care?

He cares very much.

Well, is he a patriot or not?

Yeah, very.

He says this guy should be tried, sentenced, and severely punished.

He's very incensed about this.

Well, of course, we were playing a good joke.

Well, all right.

Among us fellows, we understand how these fellows do these things and all that, and we never did sit it down.

I understand that.

on a day like Canada, Canada, you'll remember it.

Usually this sort of activity is not done by people who always wrote about this.

I mean, that's what we always tend to say, that it's the garbage man or the yeoman or the poor dumb secretary.

But the yeoman was encouraged very much.

That was his theory was always that, oh, I did it, I did it, I'm a garbage man.

He did it.

But this guy was the gaspaw of the very top ranks.

Oh, I know that in getting the material, but not in leaking it.

The leaking is what it brought.

Getting it, getting it, getting it.

You can't blame this guy at all.

And also getting it, maybe I understand that, but goddammit, leaking it, that son of a bitch should be shot.

That should be shot.

We asked one of their customers, a homosexual, and he said, well, of course, he minces around the office and he's very offended, but he said, that's all the only thing he's making.

He said, no way.

So it didn't drop a line there.

Well, I don't care whether he's homosexual or not, except that I damn well want to know whether Anderson is.

It goes to this question of whether something's got a hold on him.

That's what I mean.

There's no clear holding on this man.

Except that you do feel that you do sense that he's lived in India and that he's very pro-Indian.

You agree with that?

No question about that.

Is that maybe there?

Is he married?

Does he have children?

He has two children.

Well, he doesn't have two children, though.

I'd rather think he had them.

I didn't hear the answer.

It's too damn bad for that brother Christmas.

It really is.

Oh, well, maybe he doesn't care.

He's like an old person.

He's probably proud of us.

I don't know.

Could be.

He said it.

This one could have been done on that Sunday night at the dinner.

It could have been done.

This is what we did on the 10th of December.

The article was published on the 20th, and again, the variant of the Sunday was changed to July 1st.

The article was on the 21st.

Well into the beginning of December, I think you can really see how on the 10th, we knew it would be for the other two tables.

And then on the 15th, this is where, if you read this article here,

The two tables came in on the 16th and 17th.

And we started on the 16th.

And I'm just going to explain that.

Okay.

We started on 10th.

On Thursday.

Now, maybe he ended it.

I mean, we're just knowing it.

If on Thursday, maybe somehow he got it.

If on Wednesday night, he got it.

Somehow he got it out.

But the fact is that he could have gotten it out.

I'm curious about

That's what I mean.

I didn't give him any... Well, by God, if I were...

If I were to teach things in perspective, the little State Department basically is trying to kick Henry down as part of the course.

Sure they are.

But on the other hand, this is much worse.

This impairs the security of the country.

The other impairs the security of Henry Kissinger.

And that's a hell of a lot lesser level of crime.

Huh?

It does depend on the people involved.

No, I really mean it.

I think, I'm just wondering how much Henry and Haig do you know about this?

When I met old Henry, before he left, about five minutes ago, basically what I told him was that, and this was right after the first interview, that his WSAC meetings had been compromised.

That is resulted from the fact that some of the people attending WSAC took the freedom notes

and that they had a wide dissemination in the Pentagon, that we were in the process of comparing the availability of documents in the hopes that by cross-reference we could find a limited number of people.

He said, where does it look like now?

And I said, it looks like here.

And he nodded and said, well, I hope it is in form.

And I said, yes, it certainly is.

go ahead and continue to have it once I can get it back.

I'd appreciate it if you could let somebody keep track of who took notes in the various meetings.

Yeah, well, they're supposed to.

Well, they take incredibly detailed notes.

And they're older.

The old pros, they took it all.

Wisecracks.

All the wisecracks.

I'm sure it's interesting stuff.

And then 30 people in the background.

So that's all the emails from me.

Well, I wonder if I don't have to tell you about it.

Well, when they found out that we had an accident, and that they were damaged, and well, there's, you know, we told them, we told Andrew, we told him,

Well, I think everybody understands walking on eggs.

I had to call later to turn it off.

His reaction was, well, now we don't want this thing to come back over to the White House and accept this department.

Told me that this was very snitchy and very cold blooded.

And this whole thing is very hot.

And we should have involved the FBI.

And I said, no, we're not involved with the FBI.

It's up to the department.

All you guys have to do is lead us to do the interrogation.

But it's hard to do.

So it's kind of cold blooded.

Yeah, yeah.

There's a lot of smoke being blown over there right now.

And so I finally, he said, well, I'll check into this and call you back.

And I said, no, don't call me back.

There's no discretion in this.

Go ahead.

And he said, well, I'll have Buzzard call you.

And I said, well, can Buzzard call the president?

Go ahead and call me.

And so he said, well, all right.

Move away.

The president wants to speak, of course.

And I said, oh, no.

Now I know something.

I called Buzzard.

I said, I'm going to call him back.

Oh, sure.

Everybody is very, very anxious about this.

Well, we did it.

We got to do that.

Well, no, we thought maybe it'd be kind of interesting to ask you to come home and talk to us.

Get him back.

Get him in too.

Get him too.

As a matter of fact, I've got an idea.

Don't get Robinson first.

Get Kent first.

He wasn't here when we were here.

Get Kent first.

get to put it put him on a lie detector or whatever the hell you have to do or interrogation you want to know what he knows about this procedure i think it'd be very good to do that just to find out what's been going on around here i want to know whether we're being spied on you see dave or whether it's just i mean what the hell's going on here you do that and it gets to you you just add one more guy the hell knows what we're up to

I said, does anybody know this?

And he said, well, I told Admiral Robinson, but I didn't bother telling Admiral Robinson.

his wife as well.

When I first met the Anderson, it was through Jack Anderson's parents that I'd helped in India, and when they came back, they invited me to his house to do this long story.

So when I came to New York, I said, yeah, I'm going to have to meet with the Anderson family.

It's very low-key, and it's interesting.

A year and a half ago, when he first came up to me, I was 30 months old.

When I first came up, I didn't think that this was going to be easy.

I went out and I called Robinson, and he looked over 11, somewhere in the South Pacific, and I don't know what time it was, or where it was, but the guy, clear as a bell, went through the exact same story.

I said, did you know that you were the only new agent?

He said, yes.

He came in and told me one morning that I was married over to you.

The reason I added a prophecy report is that Wellinger confirms that two-thirds of what the English testified to as to the type of stuff that he practically wore

But I suspect that the briefcase rifle in the office, that kind of stuff, went out in the office.

It was much more of an activist and obviously more directly stimulated the child.

It would be interesting to probably find the ill who worked in that office in the back, under us, a little while out of the woman.

That was the secretary.

They were having them.

That's probably the reason why it got done.

They stopped growing up and cut them off.

That's going to be a, that's like cutting a major artery.

And what will happen has to be thought through.

And Mr. and Dave and I can agree.

What will happen is that if you send Wellinger back and you close this office, Kane will become the terminal for that artery.

And the artery will continue.

Well, that's it.

That's not a good thing.

That's a good thing.

It's very strong.

It's still very strong.

I guess whatever is done, it should start with Tom Horgan.

And who probably, when he realizes that we know, would be the most sugary man in America.

Or if he doesn't know right now, I would be amazed.

Well, there are some hours we've gone to him and cut his veins all over the board desk.

There's the only one out of our office with a very lame car.

One of the things that I've been looking for is more of an impact.

I think the strategy that we all talked about last time is to let it simmer.

Let everybody worry.

Let Henry and or Hank and or Maura and or Larry come to us.

Just let it rot and run around there a while.

Right, John?

That's probably the biggest case.

And if that doesn't happen, then we work out a scenario to go to Maura and go down to Mary.

You do that and close the office to the moment that people have questions and there is an issue with it.

Let's not hire ourselves without that song.

We've got to take it.

I would say if it isn't Peggy, it would be somebody else.

It would be Kennedy or it would be one of these other celebrities.

They survived on that song.

I'm not going to go through any of that in brief cases.

But in addition to that, we've got the Social Security guy.

That's the biggest one.

You've got to candidate for it.

Well, I had that sight in the night and heard it high out.

He's military, but he's damn good.

Sure, I haven't discussed this with David, but I've got money on me.

How about for the business?

Well, see, David's got a problem.

He needs work there.

Yeah.

and uh i know i know david's future is another for another meeting i think is these guys

And the FBI is blocking us at every turn.

It's weird.

It's not the last thing we've got to do.

It's not going to be broken.

So he was under ordered by the Senators to try and handle it.

Or he knew this was a good job he was doing.

Precise.

Too perfect.

This fellow tracked every step that he took with that one human so precisely that I said, you know, how many times do you kind of remember that it all came down to three things?

And one thing is, Walt still has all that he did.

And then I said, well, how in the world can you remember this one person's life is completely going to happen?

He's always like, he's gone through it ahead of time.

He's exactly what it is.

They don't need the leaders on operations, really, because they've got the military personnel.

But I think the military personnel, I don't think they're going to go through briefcases.

I understand what the meeting should be talked about, but they sit in line.

What I don't want is for them to take the confidential... Look, when I have a...

I'm frankly thinking of the office.

When I have a conversation with Kissinger, God damn it, I don't want it out.

I don't want more to know what I'm thinking.

Or anybody, it can't be, because I might change my mind.

You know what I mean?

The whole decision-making process is going to be terribly compromised.

You're right, John.

Well, you've had a bad channel...

We're playing all sorts of games.

The idea, for example, about floating out the idea that he doesn't lead the movement.

The whole purpose of that was to try to get us to that.

We were doing a great deal with Barry Little.

And I don't like for the world to know that we thought that way.

Yes, sir.

You said it.

But if this system is so bad that the military and the NSC are leaving the building, how many people are going to make it?

I don't know how many people are going to make it.

I think there are nine military guys at the time of that.

I would say 30 substances.

And there's probably nine.

I'm very sure of that.

All your...

And I must say, you know, quite honestly, the thing that concerns me is not so much that, but the four people closest to Henry were all military.

It was Al, Colonel Kennedy, Commander Howe, and myself all last year.

I was the only civilian.

There's no way anything gets through the head.

They don't let it through.

Well, Al, of course, is in charge of the teeth.

So he's got them.

But, you know, there's shit that kind of...

There's not good hurdles.

Not good.

And there's too many thousand NFC staff that would come to me in that spot and say, this isn't how you ever did.

Don't let it be what you did.

And I went through hell.

Because every time I did, I quoted from Hayes, my intention from Henry, that's going to let them look both sides.

And that's what that was the job.

You know, that's the way, that's the way I'm forming a doctrine.

It's just like...

But to me, the bad thing was that Henry didn't get the full picture of the guy he had recruited, the guy who was going to produce him into the film.

I think he didn't like it.

But that was the difference.

It doesn't make any difference whether he liked it or not.

I get all of the bricks and the stuff.

You know, John, you sent him those damn memorandums.

Maybe you sent him some of those things.

in the environment that I'm against and on the welfare.

But I see it.

And sometimes it gives me, like the Moynihan Memorandum, that you never fail to send one in.

And I don't agree with a lot of Moynihan stuff, but they never fail to stimulate some darn good stuff, you know.

I think what we got out of that Moynihan drill, putting that on top of the drill that you're going to go on your tax, is really going to make it, huh?

What do you agree?

We've been following up on that.

Is he excited with it?

We had to take over from Coleman and Moynihan back then.

Are they excited with the idea or not?

They're not excited with it because they would like to do something else.

They would like to have a piece of idealistic legislation.

But they recognize that the only thing that will really fly politically is to go for equalizing finances.

And then put the idealism in the river.

Well, they see that we're getting to the same end.

I told the Times before...

Whether it's worth it or not, I'm telling you, I think it's a one-time accomplishment.

It's incredibly long, because only your failures get publicized.

We've had to do this with a system of design.

I credit the design.

Black and white.

And what?

It's a development achievement.

There's a revolution taking place.

They didn't write that down.

John, if you want me to be a little liberal, you're always telling me to be nice to you.

Yes.

Well, let me put it this way.

He is children too far

terms of the military.

Now, that's better than being killed at the state.

But on the other hand, the state now and then has some good ideas.

I've told you, Bob, I've told you this at times, but God damn it, they've got good ideas.

I've got to get them.

John, let's talk about what they were really talking about.

Some of those people...

Some of his own surveillance staff.

Well, that's a statement.

Well, no.

No, that's a statement.

You know, the fellow was like, and, you know, Lisa Scott's person was like Larry Dimension, who was really a brilliant guy.

Yeah, I know.

But, you know, there was blood on the floor with him in A all the time because he couldn't get his stuff through.

And he would come to me, and I'd give him his hand, and it would be better than the floor of my office.

And we just went through that all the time.

That's important.

See, Henry is a patsy, unless I'm going to call him by the strength of a craft, but he's a patsy for always having only those things that have the effect of

of strengthening his presence.

That's the great danger, of course, of anybody who makes a decision, anybody with power.

I'm the same way.

I like to read them, and you agree with me that it's only good, but I know it's goddamn dangerous.

And then on, then you better go over there and read.

Maybe the other guy's right.

It's the system.

How long?

A year and a half?

Yeah.

Well, maybe two years.

A year and a half.

Well, that's good.

That's at least one good thing.

I would want to have a lot of this stuff to go to, frankly, not to Westmoreland, and certainly not to Westmoreland.

I think, from deducing from the directors, that war has passed up a lot in Westmoreland.

That's the old Navy talk.

And I wouldn't want to warn you that this Admiral, what's his name, has passed up to Westmoreland.

Sure, I guess he was like, he started saying that, but he didn't want to know.

But I didn't want to let him know, because it was a creepy feeling.

This thing that he said, he told us about Henry's family, very important.

I, of course, have an enormous respect for Haig.

I think he's one of the preferred operators that I've seen.

But on the other hand, Haig is military.

And the military can tend to be very straight-out, I think, all that stuff.

and a straight arrow in terms of the chain of command that you know in the Navy.

You write a letter, and your commanding officer's got an initial goddamn thing before it's forwarded.

We all remember the game here.

I mean, we all know that story.

I have a lot of respect for Hayes, and I don't think you have to thought this on personality.

I think you can say that you want to go on with a system that has inherent in it an imbalance so that

The guy in this position is potentially precluded from getting points of view different from one point of view.

And that specific system should have really good guarantees.

That's right.

That's why I have a rabid conservative sitting over there monitoring all my stuff.

Conservative?

Who the hell do you got to be conservative?

He's got blocks all over him.

Thank God.

He has brought a lot of violence into the system.

That's true.

I think the thing is, too, that I've been concerned about here for a long time.

I don't want to shock here, but I don't even know what it was.

that every time McGregor disagrees about something, McGregor is being disloyal and soft or whatever the goddamn thing is.

Well, that's not true.

Every time Scali raises some, you know, jackass question, which he often does, some of my good questions, but, well, Scali is going to go back and be a reporter someday, so you can't trust him.

And, frankly, it gets to the point in which Henry has this problem.

He has it infinitely more than I have, because I don't know how, what it will get to.

He has a problem that he, that he gives.

Most of the people that are going to hear this are going to join.

Or also, they're going to do it.

They'll take his advice.

That's another thing.

But then, the State Department is wrong about 70% of the time.

30% of the time is right when you do this.

Also, if you've got the right people, if you put them to work on something and bring them in on the show, you'll get help.

And that's the thing.

If you've got the right people.

We've had a hell of a time on some of this.

I know that.

And there's a system in the NSA where you have all those military and those things going.

What?

and so forth, but the country that we're in is not really functioning like that.

No, but here's the other problem.

So we have to see what Henry's problem is.

Henry's problem is finding bright people who will be loyal to the administration and it's damn fine, hard to find bright people who are basically not ultra-liberal and out to screw us.

We know that.

So the military people, generally speaking, will be loyal to the administration because they're first military and second.

Probably happen to share my views, which is one of those things, certainly.

Some media, in 1700 and something, made the first commander-in-chief.

That was the greatest thing they ever did.

That was very, very much so.

because it keeps the military on accident.

It's a very good point.

You're right.

Well, you can look around the world and see how many countries people cannot move one way or another because of the military.

In fact, in Mississippi,

Many of you, many say, I don't agree with this.

I think she was the hawk.

But be that as it may, the argument the British made, Alex Hill in particular, was that Mrs. Gandhi could not have done anything other than she did because her military would not stand for it, even in India.

The same thought over and over again.

The only reason he answered that was because he was a militant.

The only reason he said that was

I'd get my Navy uniform and brush it off.

No, I haven't.

If there's no stripes, I've got a good one.

All right, then.

I'm trying to find out which way to go.

John, you were the captain of the Wicked, wasn't you?

No, no, no.

Commandant?

Full-time.

You had some good scrambled eggs, I did.

Well, I never, I really never got them because they were getting a lot of corrosion on the way out, so I know it wasn't going to be long.

I know this isn't very good art.

I never answered the letters.

Today, I landed on the West Coast and

well I say this for a historical for a historical reference I want to give you an assignment when you have a few hours off I want you to sit down and write the whole thing everything you recall I don't mean just this but the things that we've said in these conferences everything else we have a record it's going to be a hollow chapter somebody's book

I remember sitting there.

It was a long day, John.

I was younger than that.

I had more energy.

But at 32, 33, 34, I never stayed there for eight hours.

The first time I was there, I was going to the question and answer.

I didn't listen.

The question came down to everybody answering the question.

But I didn't think it would be that good unless he'd done a hell of a lot of work on it.

And if he was there at work building the structure, he was covering something up.

He was covering something up.

It's crazy.

He was on the committee.

He was an angry lawyer, incidentally, and had a demagoguery right in the back.

And, of course, Parnell Thomas is on the committee.

Carl Hunt, wonderful guy, a superficial.

And he's on it.

But the other one that you've seen enough, you saw him.

He was not a lawyer, just a government clerk for that committee for years and so forth.

But

who had sort of a naive cockiness and also an intuition that we just don't know how he came up with, having his disposal and so on.

His efforts were all over.

At the end of the hearing, the first day of the month, he apologized, apologizing to his attorney about it.

This was before we took changes on this kind of connection.

This was a good time.

all the rest, and I walked back over to my office just before the building happened.

And I was just sitting there.

And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I was able to say in conclusion, independently, that he's been through a lot of things.

Strictly, Strictly, the state has been through them for years.

And through the Hollywood 10, and which I've been on the pretty much of that.

But Gerard, I used to

Those were the days when we saw the real comics.

But Strictly had a... His native sense was almost gone.

Too bad.

I'm sorry.

He would have made a great lawyer.

But then the law would have always put him.

That's true.

They don't need compassion.

The law makes people too goddamn reasonable.

And they began to listen to the words, and they miss the music.

You know, they don't, you know what I mean?

If you just listen to the words, it's a perfect record.

But you've got to sit there and sort of let your naive suspicions, or whatever the hell they are, is that you agree that that's what you had to do?

If you were looking at it as an intellectual, you'd say, well, this guy is clean.

Huh?

What we did take it through, I've got an hour and ten minutes on tape over there, which

I don't think it raised too much hell to get Ginsberg in or Thomas.

I'd be happy to.

I would just be amazed as long as he didn't leave here, get in the car, and go over to Asper's one before.

Because he had just

Okay, Willinger is just, he's a disgrace.

He broke and he was distressed and almost broke and bent.

I mean, he was also broken on the side of the old man.

That was hard to make him do that.

Well, then this other fellow.

This other fellow.

What's the other fellow?

Well, the fact that his double agent role was exposed.

They trained him to watch dogs and steal and stole and, you know, got out of control.

Now they're different.

That's what Jeff Hunt said, but he was the person, on the day that the article came out, was the first one to put it all together.

And I mean, if it weren't for, who did he call?

Yeah, he went over, hey, call me when it's five o'clock.

And then he went in to see him, but he was the one that pulled together and knew that his memoranda wasn't the same as mine, that it had to be the same as his.

If you had time to listen to the paper, I'd be delighted to have you listen to it.

Maybe some things will occur that we're going to go back on, and I certainly don't want to foreclose that.

It's possible.

Well, whatever.

Whatever.

I agree with you.

We could have him listen to a section on the mountain board.

If we had him sit down on all four of our tools and this stuff, I think so.

I think so.

The only reason I like to have Robinson is to establish access back to school on people-free cases under Robinson before we're on the documentary.

I don't know about you, but I have my briefcases on Air Force One with complete confidence in their integrity.

John.

So, Rob.

Sure.

And I've got stuff in my briefcases that are, that I don't, that Kissinger never sees, you know what I mean?

Never.

None of you do.

I've got it.

I have it that way.

All my notes and things, you know, just that you can think about and then discover.

Jesus.

He wants you to learn that

He just said over here where we are, we're supposed to be able to look stuff.

And I was like, no.

Well, now that's a different jurisdiction.

Our police are so good.

And I'm sure nothing in the way of that.

Well, we've got to change to get the system right.

And it will be salutary in a way, because probably there's always going to be something like this.

We've got to get Henry with all of his enormous talent and Hay with his enormous talent.

We've got to get that set up in a way that we can have a broader feed in of information and so forth.

I appreciate you doing my job.

I would agree with that if I had to.

The first thing I would say is to secure the consciousness and direction.

You've got the right guy to put him in there with a lot of respect.

Now's the time to do it when everybody's shook up.

I'll get it.

I'll tell you what I'll do.

Before I find the right guy to do it, let me get him in.

I'll talk to him again.

Find out what his military situation is.

The good thing about a military guy is that he knows the road he has to take.

The civilian with him, who I forgot, he lost.

This guy's good.

He's counter-intelligent.

He supervises the Air Force and intelligence operations all over the world.

If his damn rank weren't so high, I'd have heard a guy like Louis B. Wallace.

Yeah.

Of course, he wouldn't have to make any notes.

He's never made any notes.

Good.

He didn't even notice it.

I'm going to be great in the CIA, though.

There's a new Eisenhower book out.

Which one?

The Eisenhower year as well.

It's a digest of his four books, plus a lot of photographs of his administration.

And Robert and all of those guys.

They're all good.

Yeah.

as soon as the Paris Channel closes forever, or if it should open again.

But you see, he's indispensable to that secret negotiation.

How many generations are there?

Where'd you go to school?

Wait a minute.

Great.

I spoke there in 1960 on the football field.

Sure, they had a huge rally.

I don't mean the kids, but in the town.

We did an excellent school.

Right away.

I missed the core education.

I got my first thought about how I could go to education.

I said I wanted to stay there.

I'm sure I was on the right path.

The president was really grand to me when he pointed out a great choice in the right path.

I thought it was a good school.

And I went to Oxford just to kind of live the life.

Where did you go?

I did law school.

I did law school in Oxford.

Where did you, which was your, I'm going to call it Oxford, but was your house in Queens?

That's a wonderful point.

I was there when I spoke to you.

He's admitted to the bar now in all the stock market centers because he's admitted to the bar in London.

I don't know.

John?

John, if you ever go back to the practice of the law, you know, there's a very good guy who's a resident for an operation.

You can charge $200 an hour for this.

You can charge $500 an hour for each mission.

You wouldn't like a word of them.

I've been there.

Go back, please.

But I must say that I came down.

And I went to McCoy.

He was about an hour and a half in a long, long talk.

And I took my foot off the bike and he said, it's strange to hear him say it, but he said,

He's a good, loyal man.

Incidentally, John, I think you should know that I show how generous I am.

You know, your friend Ethan.

We bought him a rocker in Japan.

And if he tastes it, he'll be damned good.

Well, don't you think he'd be good?

I just want him on our side.

We're trying to say Sherman Sterling.

You may have also a part of the religion inside, but never the left.

That's right.

I remember when we considered for some case case, I remember you said no.

I mentioned I was sort of brown-out, isn't it?

Yes.

He's an individualist.

Well, don't you think he'd do well in Japan?

I would think that in an embassy, a lot of times when the police service man was in the background, like he was sitting back in front of you,

Oh, that's what they have terminated, certainly.

That's very funny.

No, no, no.

We don't know.

We're in Japan.

Let me tell you what he did when he came with our firm.

And, uh, which I think is a fabulous model.

But anyway, John, down to whatever it was, 75 or 200, took the cut.

600, that's all he was stealing.

It was awful.

I know, I'll see.

I know.

They all steal?

Sure.

Okay.

Then he started stealing for us, but he did it for us.

But we have a few little things that we could offer.

It was funny.

In fact, I can't remember what they were.

Well, you've got a severance pay.

Yes, I'm sure there is.

I would hate for someone to go there.

There's never a lot of taxes.

The taxes are $499,000.

$499,000?

$499,000.

They were able to pay you around here for eight years for the demand.

You're right.

You're on your own job.

They should have been salaries.

I hope they have that chunk.

... ... ... ... ...

I don't know who can influence him.

Flanagan's talking to him, and I told Flanagan that he had to take the period.

I was wondering maybe if you could interrupt.

The reason I asked is I almost told Flanagan to get McCoy to talk to him.

And my recollection is correct.

I knew that McCoy was an arrival law firm.

They're probably not good friends.

As soon as we finish here, you tell Martin that he is to be at my request to call Eaton and tell Eaton that it's vitally important that he take the ambassador that I paid.

And to that I'm not going to worry about it.

And to that I'm going to be able to take it.

Could he not?

Yeah.

Okay.

Reorganize it.

Iron it.

Spread it.

All right.

You'd be intelligent, that's correct.

But if you would tell Martin to call you and say, now look here, this is, and Martin has to say that he's talking to me, that I think it is the most important embassy in the world today, it really is.

The hardest can happen.

See, we got a damn good one in Russia.

We found a lawyer.

He's a great ambassador.

Russia's our best ambassador to Europe.

Don't you agree?

I don't know.

No, that's not what you're talking about.

He was there in corporate law.

But I was very smart.

I never took corporate law.

I never learned about it.

Anyway, you learn.

It's all unlearned now.

Mitchell Supreme, of course, changes all the rules.

He's a good man.

I see no problem in bringing him back.

I think you ought to bring him back.

I think that's one way to let him worry a bit.

I'm sorry, you didn't accomplish this, maybe.

It's a good idea.

All right.

Yeah, fine.

All right.

Call him back.

Just say we want him to come back for something related to interrogation.

Yes, sir.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

He's probably got a haircut here.

He's kind of pissed around.

Do you want to talk about the other thing?

Yeah, fine.

I've got to go over to see Eric.

I've got to go to 5 o'clock.

Yeah, I'll go over there.

Excuse me about that.

Yeah, yeah.

That is a complicated, post-pathetic story, even though I'm sorry about it.

I'm interested in it.

I'm just surprised some of us haven't thought about it before.

Well, I thought about it back in the beginning.

I thought about all those things that everybody had to deal with, and when you give these old lives that have been given to you,

Well, he can't.

As John was saying, the day until the last sentence, the Navy has such wide balls.

He's up at Camp David.

He leaves his briefcase up there.

He leaves it open on the chair.

You did.

He left the briefcase at Camp David once with the crowd and stuff.

And I found out that they had lost it.

And I just raised out, told them they were never to call the president's briefcase again.

They were never looking at it.

And that was logical procedure.

And it was an honest move, I'm sure, because the guy up there, he doesn't know anything clever.

He just, he was fine.

He found himself in possession of what he knew was hot property for his own protection.

He logged the property so that there would be, when he transmitted it down, he would have a record of what he had left.

But I told the senator, God damn, this is too long.

Get those guys up there, get these stewards, all these guys.

They're in and out of these rooms all the time.

They hear what's being discussed.

We've got the Army guys driving our cars, and they hear conversations.

Well, for example, I think in my case, there's got to be just a watch on them.

I think the Reed case over here might be the time.

I'm totally open, you know, I sometimes carry it back, sometimes I don't, but I leave it right here on the floor.

So anybody that comes in, I think if a woman comes in and cleans this place, somebody should be standing there.

Oh, they are?

They are.

Oh, okay.

Secret services, yes.

Oh, watch it.

Oh.

I'm an artist.

Hey.

I'm an artist, and I've had a few long talks with some of the residents and some of the facilities.

Or he doesn't want to do it, but he'll do it if he wants.

He feels the degree.

His wife has got this very bad medical problem on Thursday.

She's in and out of that wall of the business.

They're going to treat her and change her chemistry.

That's positive.

She can't deal with it.

These are all things.

rationalization to be started.

Some of these things can go in the department, like the Russian industry, but there are a few others.

He's worried about the fact that, financially, he's going to lose a hell of a lot of sales, and the industry can help on.

He doesn't know where he's going to want to be.

He's a person from a woman's life in some condition.

And then there's a few miners.

They pay.

The other thing on the finance side, in the long run, you've got to be meeting important people again on a different level.

I would believe that, Mr. President, because he will be engaged when he gets out of here in six, three, four, five months.

He can't go in and incorporate.

He's got to identify something outside of it.

Director Adams can sell it.

Yeah.

Well, he could do all that.

Now, the other thing, of course, if he wants it, I mean, if he should win the election.

Actually, he could.

And also there's this risk.

which I put it out of the heart of them, that's a similar problem.

Or had it more so, because there was no money at all.

I said to Hardin, look here, if you stay on, we lose the election.

I said, you're going to be damaged goods if you stay on.

If I were to do this now at the top, you know, go take your offer.

In the case of Maury, we're not, he's not getting out, but I mean, if he's staying on and losing the election, a former cabinet officer is much better.

He will make enormous contracts, I think.

It's on the finance side now.

You know, there's a lot of guys like Moncay and Clint Stone.

They love marketing stuff.

Well, that's a good point that I made.

They will take it.

And I think we ought to go further than that.

We ought to understand what's going on.

That probably will be 64 years of age.

He's going to take care of it.

We sure could.

You never think, Jack?

Well, Jack doesn't have that kind of money.

Well, I don't think so.

Well, the argument that I make with Morgan is perfectly valid.

But he would want to get a salary of $4 billion.

Absolutely.

He had a car.

Absolutely.

And he won't have the 10 months or whatever it is in order to make any contact and look around.

Look around.

But at least he's lost some of his people.

And I heard that he had an ex-secretary of Congress now on most of the boards.

I don't know if he has much of his corporation.

You know, he could pick up 10 directorships and just retire on that.

Another thing, too, is that he has an opportunity to pick up a directorship at any board of the corporation.

I mean, money's all the national money, but he's traveled the world now.

He's a guy to open for China and Russia and all that crap.

I think we can answer that.

I have one other question.

That's easy enough.

That's easy enough, but he should announce.

You should make determinations so that you would get a future over there in training.

We also have a home practice that's more important than any of the others that I was going to say.

He's got to keep going and raise the money.

We've only got 60 days to raise our money.

Right.

And every day you start with one day gained over the plus 60.

So that's a very low end on that basis.

All the way on the financial side, you should be given a hell of a good salary note.

But I don't think the hospital fund is quite as close to a hell of a good salary, and the salary should be enough to cover the hospital stuff too.

But it's, and you shared with the Koch to say that I want to order it.

She's a former, wife of a former captain.

I know that it's done.

Walter will work it out.

Or he should discuss it with people.

I'll talk to him about it.

I'll check it to be sure.

Check it to be sure if you want to talk to him.

But as for Walter, that can be done.

Is it Walter Reed?

Yes.

It looks like the best time for what we do is in January 10th through 12th.

I said, well, this is a side view, and there are two factors involved.

Number one, the first is the natural water.

The other is in connection with the delicate slate.

We have a delicate slate, and it requires consent.

So in what I would

would suggest is that we start here with the letters from the Mr. President approving the delegates, and also a letter from Glenn Edelman announcing that you are not going to take your name off the ballot.

And the way I would like to do that is to have them write a letter and write a letter to me, and then I respond to it, and they'll release that correspondence as the announcement.

That's it.

Now, I'm not going to make any announcement.

I don't want to figure out how to make any announcement.

I just want to let it wait.

I think the Eisenhower thing was handled, and I don't know if that was it.

Now, what I would like to do is ask you a question.

Is that when L, what's the letter of the delegate and so forth, gets published in New Hampshire?

Oh, sure, the governor of New Hampshire.

Court House steps and all that.

That's the Richard Nixon firm that we had candidates for, but people didn't answer.

Correct.

We'll cover all of that.

Do you have any particular data on that?

Well, the limiting factors would be the State of the Union on the 20th.

The State of the Union on the 20th.

and then we proceed.

The only question there would be to be adopted.

This story, it might be one day it's done.

And I don't think we can pick any day to release it.

And we're not, we're not anxious to make a big story out of it.

So that here, I quite agree that all you have to do is have a signal to release these innocuous weapons.

And then they're on the record, but out there, that's one L, taking the letter, and then we'll do something with it.

Well, that's the week through the missioning that's different.

And making a difference.

The week is the 10th.

The 9th is the day Pat comes back.

The 9th is Sunday.

She comes back Sunday.

And then, for a while, I was going to take that up to 12.

12 was the one that I was going to take up, and that was quite a good day.

I was going to get those correspondents for the work that I was going to do.

I can talk to Louie.

Louie was an idol in the home elections.

with that law firm and the last conversations I had with Louie was the fact that he's going to go out and take control of the city hall and so forth and whatnot.

But it ought to be earlier than that, so he's locked in after the rest of it.

And Heidi, I suggest to Louie that if they should run, Louie, is there going to be something up here in the administration?

Sure, sure, absolutely.

In the administration or an ambassador's role?

.

But we will give him anything that will give him a feeling of, you know, going out on top rather than behind.

Very big deal.

How's California coming?

Do you know anything about that?

Well, I've got to talk to Mitch sometime before I go on to tell him.

Yeah, tell him to stay the hell out of California.

I go back in there making speeches.

I've gone over with him.

Did he go back in?

Well, Reagan is the one who's pitching to me.

He's got a right to go back home.

Reagan doesn't want him in the state.

He doesn't want him out there making speeches.

At least he's got to be a passion of Reagan.

Well, we're probably going to report you wrong.

He came to the house.

Yes.

It's got to be a good state.

It's got to be five seats at large, probably.

Well, five at large.

Best way that's possible.

And he's got his... And he leaves a ticket.

He leaves a ticket at the hospital.

He would be a damn cinch then.

It gives him a place to be.

Go to the Senate.

Why at large can't they get the damn thing?

The legislature has a reapportionment thing.

They've got to ask the president.

Yeah.

So then they are, then it goes to the courts.

It was a Democrat.

Yeah.

But is it bad?

Yes.

It's bad legally.

It's bad not only politically, but he's on sound ground in Detroit because it's a bad bill.

The possibility is that the court might go back and pick up a Republican order.

Well, I understand they don't have time to do that.

It is a fine.

And as I see it, for people out there, it's probably constitutionally acceptable, right?

So this is what the courts did in Illinois.

I think the legislature wasn't passing what they ordered to do, but the fact that the court ordered a constitution.

We can't pitch in tomorrow if he's in town.

And to be sure about it, I'll talk to him about it.

In the California legislature, we have Gordon, who's the guy who's in our room,

Well, Tom, we're interested in trying to get back here in a little while.

Reagan has a complex that we don't want to ever be able to handle.

Excellent.

It was an article.

It's basically true.

It was an article in the U.S. Newsweek that said this.

And he read it and referred to it.

But as I've said before, we've got everybody from Earl Adams to Bill Begg.

So we'll get that in the direction of the problem.

I'd love to see this.

And by the way, if this does come about, don't let Bob run off with five liberals.

Let's see if we can't outsmart Allen without him.

Sure.

All right, sir.

I was going to do quite a mess.

When I died running at large, you know you could win all five.

Sure.

You could win all five if you got lucky.

Well, I don't think so.

You're right.

Thank you.

All right.