Conversation 313-021

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Hello?

Hello, Kelly, are you still in Puerto Rico?

Oh, say, my Kelly, you are a hard fellow to keep up with.

I'm just fine, and I got your message that I, from yesterday, and Pat got back, and she looked great after a long journey, and I passed, hello, and I passed on your message to her, which she was most gratified with.

Hello?

Go ahead.

Yeah.

Hello?

Go ahead now.

Yeah, I can hear.

I don't like to think about it, but I did all right.

Yeah, they had a nice party out at the airport and everything.

Yeah, and we got a, we had a very, very good

Actually, you know, she got a great reception at my girl and the other places, too.

Well, I would just think it's a little hard on you, but we appreciate it.

I am going to.

We're checking out to see whether Culbert is coming to the prayer room if he wants to.

If he does, I'll go to dinner for him while he's here.

So that would be a way to return it to safety.

He's very interested in that, as I understand.

He talked to her about coming to prayer on the February 1st.

Hello?

It's not cut off very much.

You can read all day on it.

You can probably get through.

It's quite interesting.

Time magazine.

Two full cover pages.

And a full-page text story.

This African queen for a week.

The first lady.

Has a five-mile picture of her on the motorcade.

But it says, it talks about Mrs. Kennedy and Eleanor Roosevelt and Lady Bird Johnson, you know, and all their colleagues.

It says, but no first lady in history has quite matched the path next to traveling roads yet.

This last week wound up a resoundingly successful 8,000 to 10,000 miles of the tour.

Mrs. Nixon still did hear herself to affirm that she was the ultimate tribal athlete.

And it's stuff like after a sleepless nine-hour flight to the library, followed by a frenetic 12-hour day of state activities,

telling the Congress team First Lady is the hardest unpaid job in the world.

The eager, enthusiastic Liberians helped move her plane.

She enjoyed herself thoroughly, gracefully stood as two women wrapped her in a blue suit.

Throughout the trip, with marvellous subtlety, she avoided all American aid projects, concentrating instead on local points of pride.

I saw that.

By the way, where did you get that from?

I did.

53, when we took her on the trip.

I did some of them, yeah.

But I kept saying, oh, I want to see what they want to show us, you know.

And that's the trouble America has with the drug, and also with the state department, the planning thing.

They have to tell you what they have to do with the peace drawer, you know.

Never before had an American first lady visited Africa, acted as the nation's official representative in an amended state, or conferred the pets of the state on behalf of her husband.

It's far more important than Mrs. Nixon won thousands of new friends.

It's an engaging, effervescent personality in her own right.

It's a full-fledged story plus two solid faces of color.

We ought to get that story re-printed and centered around horror.

Great.

How about having that as the, as, so that we have a good mailing piece for the month of May?

Well, let's do it.

A couple thoughts.

Romney, you don't want to see me.

I think you should call him and tell him I'm going to that event that you already have.

Don't go there, you know.

I don't want you to go on the way back.

It's not that I want you to watch it.

If you don't want to see me, I don't want to.

I want to get it done, you know.

Hey, Ben.

I'll be having fun.

All these people on the way, it's disappointing.

State has flatly said they won't

He just wondered if Kissinger was representing your wishes in this or whether it was some... No, unless Kissinger's got some goddamn thing that he pulled from him that he's trying to cover up.

The other thing, of course, is you know what this is, don't you?

You do it.

Of course you do.

Well...

I see more to it than that, because Buckley, Bill Buckley, pushing the truth, pushing the personal, but he is a capable man.

He's a rabbit and all that sort of thing, but it's not ours, though.

It was appointed by Kennedy, or she's a look editor, like the students in this place.

What your feeling is on Buckley's reappointment to the USIA advisory board is having been

Hopefully it votes for us.

There's a question of whether it makes sense to put it back on.

Maybe it's a good reason to put it back on.

Oops.

Both ways.

It signals that it, you know, I think it should go back on.

I'm curious.

I, uh, I think it may, it may be something.

Maybe we have to do that.

I don't know.

Did I ask Henry?

Yeah.

Henry, how do you feel about this?

He said, if he wants to be a convert, let him be a convert.

He has an influence in the service.

But for Larry, he has no influence in my client.

He doesn't question me.

He doesn't get any people off.

You know, he shows how to own it.

He's a PIO at ATW.

Oh, God, no.

Larry's got to have a solid conservative in his service.

We're at least together.

And he said to Tate, we talked to Laird about the treatment announcement, and Laird will confirm back to the South Carolina military.

We'll go with that number.

He thought he might have to go.

He said that Larry, uh, told me we'd go ahead on him if the rush was okay.

Yes, I know that.

Uh, if he can work out, it's kind of a good interest.

Hello to 70,000.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Yeah, that connection with Camille Bay, you know, that's all right.

It's always difficult.

But all I just want to be sure is that you thought it was a good idea for Taubert to come in the event that he comes to the prayer breakfast and I could have dinner for him at night, you see.

Why was it might be easier to do it now in that connection and not have it too long of a visit, see?

because it's a small, it's a small country.

No, not at this point, no.

No, we can't have any this year because of our other heavy commitments, but all right, I've got your message, I've got it now, we'll...

Right, right.

I will, incidentally, there's a very good piece about Moldenburger in time this week on the trip, you'll want to pick it up.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Well, now you enjoy that wonderful place, will you?

And give my best to Ruth.

Well, maybe I better call him.

Well, his other hang-up is he had a call from Ravine, who said that he's been called into the State Department to discuss supplies and communications.

And he's read up the log and says this is the same thing.

The state's not on the line.

independent project instead of we have any serious interest in trying to go ahead on working out the plan on it i i maybe i won't contact you i was just gonna say i talked a little bit and then he hung up on me and apparently it instantly called the attorney general because i

and then immediately called the Attorney General to check on our project.

He said, haven't you talked to the Rogers yet?

And I said, no, but I have another chance to get to you, Attorney General.

And he said, well, I'm not going to discuss it with you further.

And so then he called John, because I called John, and John was busy, and he called me back and said, I've just been talking to Henry.

And he did.

Henry has the same name as him.

And John said, well, to Henry, well, why don't you tell Ramey to go ahead and have a meeting with the State Department and then report back to you on what it is they read.

He said that may give us the basic case history for this kind of operation and put a good document on it.

Then he said, he had talked with Nelson Rock, who had been talking to Henry about his problems and so on.

Nelson suggested that

a way, symbolically, to accomplish a lot of things here and solve some of the substantive problems, too, is to fire Siska, move him out of where he is.

And this would have great pluses with Henry, and obviously great pluses with the affair that was created.

So, you know, that's what we really want to do.

And it would hit him back for what he said in the Wesson meeting.

Some of his quotes and some of those things are pretty rough.

And all the problems, both India, Pakistan, and the Middle East during Cisco's ballpark.

So by making a change there in India, he will send up some signals in conjunction with our Cisco and back to the ship.

Yeah.

Then the AT was over here the second minute.

They were talking.

And the question of whether he and I should go ahead and talk with Rogers and make sure

We should, we should.

I do, and so does he.

He feels there's no other way to get out of this as we go.

We aren't going to jump on Rogers.

We're going to hop over the column from both sides, and then we'll get his view, and then hop in.

We might put it at Rogers in San Francisco as the column.

I don't know if you want me to get out of the column.

I don't know.

decided not to do any, you know, he was going to do the mass crime stories on the moment, and he decided not to, he read the Sunday papers, and decided his credibility was destroyed in that way.

He called his wife and said, you know, I read the magazine, and I read the one I had, and I said, well, you can see there's this thing opening around him now, right?

And he comes out, seems to me, pretty well.

Because they say,

that Anderson favored revealed nothing new of substance and fell far short of proving the columnist's assertion that the administration had grossly deceived the public about its profile in the Senate.

They did discredit Henry Kissinger's claim during the action that the U.S. was not anti-Indian, but the administration's lack of neutrality had been evident all along.

That's distorting in some, but it's still going back to basically anti-Indian in the city.

It's really an unflinching proverb.

We're in anti-war and the Indians are in war right now.

And it says, the administration claims, and the documents confirm this, that a major concern was to discourage and prevent India from trying to knock over all of West Pakistan as well as the East.

I'll just say that, you know, I've got it on the comments.

I think he said, I think, left, left on it.

Well, but in the meantime, I'm sure you would not call, uh...

I think the others have, too.

It's nice credit in any case of your clients.

Nobody's going to say the money's perfect.

Well, that should be one thing.

I thought, you know, we discredited this, or discredited Rodney's plan, or my plan, or something, and we wanted to be creative with it.

There, they end up in the same disturbing aspect of the intent, which the president seemed to be acting out of anger, or what he considered a misdemeanor, or a misdemeanor, or a misdemeanor, or a misdemeanor, or a misdemeanor.

I know.

Well, as a matter of fact, I'm sure they can't figure out.

That's all a result of, I guess, Henry's, they figure that Henry is reflecting on getting hell every half hour.

Is that what you said?

Well, that's the kind of thing.

That's the judge's thing.

True, you know, the other, the other, the other, he, I just said, I just said, as we know Bob, it's, it's raised the question of why do you feel he should move over to the campaign and ask for a fight?

Because I didn't realize, I thought he was part of it.

You know, my problems aren't with my work.

It's a hell of a problem.

It's got to be over there.

I'm working the stage now where it needs to be.

On a daily basis.

This is realistic.

Maintain the facade.

You can't work over there.

Every week, what's your tendency?

What's your feeling?

What I would do is wait until what Sam's saying is done, announce him, get him moved, and then just shortly before you leave for town, announce the initials, and let him get over there right away.

I would do it right in tandem with Sam, so it's probably better not to do that.

I'd rather wait.

Let's do it two weeks after.

The fact that you're moving both of them with people that are already on hands looks like an orderly thing.

Can we do it?

We could do it two weeks after Stan's.

Let's decide that now, shall we?

And that takes all, you know, kind of takes all the steam away.

For the last few weeks before New Hampshire, so you can ride here or down here.

It's all like that.

It was a very good place.

It started back as a little story of Japan.

Just hit the covers on what's really important.

Sure, what the hell?

We've got super lights that allow people to sit out of hockey creasing.

I have no idea what the hell we ought to do about the Kissinger problem.

Kissinger's finally just lashing out of the Rockies instead.

I also, at the White House, I have a letter to defend you.

If there's anything that can be done now, we're wrong.

We have to do something.

We have to restore it.

I think it's just Henry's credibility.

There's credibility bandages to everybody.

I'm sure that's basically the credibility.

When something goes wrong, maybe you say it's the credibility bandages.

Come out the way you want me to.

Sorry to talk about China.

It's just funny.

It's a little disturbing.

That bothers me.

It bothers me that you're talking to so many people.

In some ways, at least, it's very nice.

It's very nice.

You know, he talks to me, he talks to John, he talks to John Irvin, to John Mitchell, and to Nelson Rockefeller.

You know, it's just the kind of thing you ought to... You know what I'm saying?

I, Ray, hope you caught up with your sleep.

You've done a lot of fine work here.

I thought I'd just punch you in the head for a while.

I think that we're at the first draft.

I think we're going to have a really good time.

I have a lot to say to you.

I'm not sure.

It may be the theme.

I mean, it's hard to know quite how, whether it should be one or two ways.

You can stay at the beginning and then try to put everything, put them onto this, and all in relation to me.

Or you could go through, you know, what is left.

It seems to me, I was talking to Colin a few months ago, and we were not going to say thanks.

I said, well, that's probably all right.

He said, well, definitely not.

We have an awful lot of complaints.

We have a lot to digest.

And we should say this is a time for consolidation, to move forward.

It's shocking.

Also, it is the realistic point that in terms of the Congress, the Congress simply doesn't have any room to do anything more at this point.

And it's an empty gesture and totally political to go out and say, I asked the Congress this year to enact, and we have a tax reform.

I don't know.

That's his feeling.

It was mine, too.

I didn't let him into it.

He did not feel, in other words, that it was fatal to his speech, not to have a mood striking, you know, unless you were receiving it.

And, uh, in 1971, 72, he said, you know, I'm afraid of grace, not anger.

And, uh, it was really right in the Congress that I realized that I was right.

I was an electioneer, and I realized that I was right.

You know, we'll spread it as little as we can, but our mission should decide the best politicians do what's best for the country.

What's best for the country is that the politicians always do what's best for the country.

And so if we fail to act, then we will be unresponsible.

And I hope that we do that.

And I hope that the credit is not for everybody.

And I hope that the politicians are required

Coming back to it, let me say one more thing.

One person did take another drug and was saved.

All right, fine.

What I would like to do, I'd like to perhaps do the same thing tomorrow.

I'd like to do one more time.

How does that sound to you?

Yeah, I meant tomorrow, say, or around.

Say, I don't know.

I don't know.

In fact, they have this new pencil.

It's a waiting space.

It wouldn't shoot without it, would it?

Why don't you try it?

It will set at 3 o'clock tomorrow.

You know, you're eating at the regular time.

Well, it's realistic, though.

I know it very well.

So, let's see.

Let's see what it can do.

I just wanted to call you to tell you that I opened the present and I'm delighted to have that razor and I will now not blend the TV when I have the Bible upshatter.

I want to hear it just sort of shake up.

It's fine.

It's about a bunch of this kind of a very, very, basically a very nice line.

It's very, very cool.

Yes, you want to go on again.

Okay.

For that one, we'll have a chance to sort of see it.

I'll come again.

So we're going to go ahead on this thing and call him back, say he's going to do that.

We'll call Mitchell back after he finds out that we're beating him up there, up to over there.

Just looking at it by that string, I don't think there's anything.

Even when he hears back from Larry, I'm going to give him that.

There he is.

Yeah.

I just wanted to

No, he wasn't, but it was covered, for sure.

It really wasn't.

I figured that he wasn't, but I didn't lie.

But when it doesn't happen, you just, you don't even wonder, but it's not because he's got a prop tie, he's got things to do.

That's right.

Do you still want to try and launch him on an East Asian speaking tour, where we were going to try and go last fall, and it got all caught hot, long enough in these things?

Is that something you want to try and move him in to go in the spring now?

The plan, we were all set to move out on August 3rd.

We were able to do that.

We had a new economic policy business.

We had to drop that.

Non-political, totally non-political, economic spokesman.

We were not going to post on August 3rd.

We were going to do it on August 3rd.

We have some TV.

What we have is that we sort of set up a pattern day, you know, where we do some public event at noon to get on the TV, definitely, and do a Q&A TV.

And, in fact, that's a powerful thing, and even though it doesn't get in the focus, it's a fun part of it.

It's useful.

Okay, well, I'll talk to you again about that.

Hello?

Hi, how are you?

Fine, fine.

Hi, I, uh...

I had a good talk with Rush, and he said he was coming over to talk to me tomorrow.

And I think he will find that the terminals are a little problem and so forth.

They didn't work out the concepts I'm interested in very well.

Here's the point.

There's two or three things that I don't want to talk about.

And you are a partner, I completely agree.

First of all, he knows NBFR.

He knows Salt, who is where he's been, where he also will represent a very strong minority group.

And third, he is, I don't know, he is a man who knows his government.

He's a man, he has a great,

is, you know, hand it over to you, and they're up to you, and they're ready to respect you, and they're ready to do what you want to do, and you have no ambition to do anything more, which is kind of a good thing, and I really feel that I want you to have a very little problem, and I want you to do what you want to do, and you can work out the potential of what you want to do, and that's what I'm talking about.

He has a business background.

He knows the business titles well.

What he does not know, of course, is the .

But there he has to rely on .

Which actually is what anybody else would have to do.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think the reason that they shot him on the rush was that then we had the German thing, you know, and for the sparing.

But now, the German thing, he's done everything he can in Germany.

He's got to find a good man.

Yeah.

Well, hasn't he been?

He told me, I said, I don't want to have any situation where an intuition that important to you, you've got some guys that you think is compatible.

He said that

And he said that he had a totally good relationship with you.

And that's what he said.

So if you feel the same way, then I agree with you.

And we can go on.

But you have a good problem tomorrow.

Yeah.

That's a good question.

You can look at these things.

That's what we know about the head of the world and how they want us to do and so forth and so on.

But I don't feel confident to respond to that.

That's the right one.

She seemed to be very honest with me.

She said, when Metro checked Chicago, you know, and the network, you know, they were very simple.

But he perfectly frank with me.

He said, I don't know about the Australian bond.

I mean, Washington.

that I will also have to say that my wife would much rather be a Martian than be a God.

So that would be, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

I know, and another thing, too, that he told me that if you would mention to him that you want to take a month's of our village and do the next two years, you know, the grassland, I'm all for that, too.

I don't know.

You have a man who's totally stressful, who would not make a mistake.

He's just too damn smart.

He's a lawyer, of course, without that very cautious and that respect.

And he's going to run off the track.

So I think that you take a look.

You see it through the model that I'm seeing.

That's what I have to do.

I'm very happy to show that I'm a God.

I don't know.

I don't think Melvin Rush is the bigger problem.

He doesn't have a hell of a lot of money.

When a guy like Packard loses his bar, it hurts him less.

But when a guy's got, say, maybe

.

Yeah.

Now, the other thing is this that I want to talk to you about.

I think we've got to go just a little of what we've done previously, and I know it's a tough time, but it seems to me that the way I was thinking about what to do is to

I hear that 70,000 is about 1,000 to 1,500 above the other numbers.

But then, in April, we had to make an additional statement depending on that.

I don't want her to go high at all, because I know they're not.

I know they've got all these people in there.

But the way things are now, there isn't a hell of a lot that that many can do anyway.

But if we handle it properly, and also, I think it would put us in a very bad position, because if you, both you and I, have any position,

What is $70,000?

That would be $25,000.

$25,000 is $23,000.

$23,000 in our number before.

So we're up $1,000.

And that's the end of the number.

That's John with $69,000.

And then April, April, April, April, April, April.

Well, I think you could, when you come over, talk to them about what I had in mind, whether you indicated that there will be a predisposition or not.

But on the other hand, I think it's very important to give

and there's the high rules on the back and all the obstacles and resolutions and deadlines and the rest.

You get a feeling of confidence, upbeat, because God damn it, we've done a hell of a job here, as you well know, and it's the optimization program, and nobody's helping you this far along.

And if they come back to say, well, right here and there, it might be insurgency-like now, but it hasn't, you know.

Sure, and I think you should say that, and we should expect them, and that all battles are not won, and that the result will be that they are not strong enough to defend themselves.

On the other hand, as you well know, what happens in Dallas is unbelievable.

Well, that's important, and also questionable.

I would think, I don't know if it's legitimate, but what the result is,

What was it?

I'm glad that they've done well, and well, uh, kind of, uh, controlled the work that they're doing.

We all have them.

We might, you know, now, we might, you know, there's a legal, uh, there's a time for a report, and they, you know, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, they're not,

And I'll walk out and let you do the rest.

See, I don't have a reason to hide.

I don't want to do anything.

There's never one.

What I mean is that I don't want to be in a position to say something on the diplomatic front.

I don't want to be in a position to say something on the diplomatic front.

Now we'll do this on, we'll do this live, just not live, we'll do it on tape on television.

So, uh, we'll do it on tape.

Uh, and I hope that works out.

But, yeah, I don't know.

In fact, we'll do it.

We'll do it on tape.

You know, it's really unconscionable.

You can't do it.

You can't throw that away.

You can't really change that.

What we did, you know, and I think it's a hair in the situation that they just continue to say that you're on the streets and they just continue to listen.

That's it.

Well, if you would, John, for the meantime, if you could prepare your Q&A and discuss it with me.

I know that the toughest one is that the prisoners are dead by all means, in one sense, but in another sense, there's another reason to be involved and withdrawing.

But I think we should emphasize that point.

Emphasize the point that, not only that, but back in October of the year, the next day, in a conference, they said, no, we've got to go to Vermont.

We've got to go to South Vietnam, which is an entirely different country than Vietnam.

Good.

All right, well, we'll see you Thursday at 10 o'clock again, unless something comes up.

All right, thank you.

All right.

No problem when I'm around 70,000.

Then we can handle that.

I've been ready here, and I'd already called Henry back and told him that, too.

So you have, I mean, my point is that...

Henry also creates these problems, you know.

Yeah, another thing.

Yeah, but Larry will also play it, you know, no problem with you, and then go back to Henry and say, geez, I can't do this, or something like that.

And you've got it now, but no way.

I said, Larry, there's no point in saying, well, you've got to do something about it.

It's just for...

I don't understand it.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

... ... ...

The structure had more control.

The structure had some control.

Don't you agree?

Yeah.

And Rush also has a very good sense of public relations.

Yeah, that'll...

He did it back in the day.

I think the reason is that Henry and Carl now...

I had a good talk with Rush, and I have a perfect understanding that Rush knows exactly what the situation is going to be in college and the Western Central and the destinations and a lot of it.

Rush said he's delighted with us and with John, and also that I feel that one of them is supposed to be very helpful.

Thank you.