Conversation 326-019

TapeTape 326StartFriday, March 24, 1972 at 1:24 PMEndFriday, March 24, 1972 at 2:00 PMTape start time02:17:34Tape end time02:52:02ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On March 24, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:24 pm to 2:00 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 326-019 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 326-19

Date: March 24, 1972
Time: 1:24 pm - 2:00 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     The President’s forthcoming press conference
          -Possible topics
               -Patrick J. Buchanan
               -Northern Ireland
                      -Press coverage

     Public relations

          -John B. Connally’s previous Today appearance
          -Donald Rumsfeld’s previous Meet the Press appearance

     The President’s forthcoming press conference
          -The President’s possible demeanor
                -Ziegler’s view
                -Connally
          -National economy
                -Pay Board
          -Judiciary Committee
                -Michael J. Mansfield
                      -Vote on Richard G. Kleindienst’s nomination

     National news items
          -Herbert Stein’s statement
                -Ziegler’s view
                      -Food prices
                            -Price Commission
                            -Connally’s statement
          -Unknown person [Hubert H. Humphrey?]
                -Productivity Commission
          -Busing
                -Detroit
                -Stephen J. Roth
                -Moratorium
                -Department of Justice
          -New York banks’ prime rate
                -Unknown bank
                -First National Bank

The President talked with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at an unknown time between 1:24 pm and
1:28 pm.

[Conversation No. 326-19A]

     National economy
          -New York banks’ prime rate
                -Connally

[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s forthcoming press conference
          -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                -Statement in New Orleans
                      -Vice Presidency
                -The President’s view
          -Politics
                -Primaries
                -George C. Wallace
                -Campaign spending
                -Buchanan’s view
                      -Wallace
                -Section 315 regarding equal time
                      -Possible debates
                      -Howard H. Baker, Jr.’s equity amendment

Haldeman talked with the President between 1:28 pm and 1:29 pm.

[Conversation No. 326-19B]

[See Conversation No. 22-16]

[End of telephone conversation]

     The President’s forthcoming press conference
          -Politics
                -Possible debates
                -The President’s view
                      -Timing of political speeches
                      -Debates
          -The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union
                -Press interest
                      -Itinerary
                      -Agenda
                            -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                            - Trade
          -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
                -Peter M. Flanigan
                      -Thomas F. Eagleton’s attack
                      -Ziegler’s statements
                            -Richard W. McLaren’s statements
                            -Chile

                        -Statement Department
             -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                  -Sherman Adams
             -Harry S. Truman
                  -Alger Hiss
                  -Harry H. Vaughn
             -Scandals
                  -Proof of charges
                        -Harry S. Truman

Press
        -Ziegler’s forthcoming list
             -The President’s view
                    -Television
                    -Radio
             -Nicholas P. Thimmesch
             -Frank van der Linden
             -Richard (“Dick”) Wilson
             -Clark R. Mollenhoff
             -Wire services
                    -Frank Cormier
                    -Ziegler’s view
                         -Helen Thomas
                         -Gaylord Shaw
             -Preparation

The President’s forthcoming press conference
     -Schedule
          -Timing
          -Length
                 -Jim Deakin
                 -Cormier

Unknown man
    -Views of the press
    -Busing
         -Liberals

Unknown man [George C. Wallace?]
    -Tax reform
    -Democratic presidential candidates
         -Combined tenure in Senate
               -Inactivity

The President’s forthcoming press conference
     -National economy
          -Price control
                 -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
          -George Meany
          -Leonard Woodcock
     -Busing legislation
          -South
          -School bus accident
     -Separate but equal education
          -Ziegler’s statement regarding the President’s views
                 -Brown vs. the Topeka Board of Education
          -The President’s view
     -Ziegler’s view
     -George P. Shultz’s views

The President’s schedule
     -Press conferences
          -Frequency
                 -The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union
                 -Democratic National Convention
          -The President’s view
          -Ziegler’s conversation with Haldeman
          -Format
          -Timing and location
                 -Democratic National Convention
                 -Republican National Convention
                 -San Clemente
                 -Democratic National Convention
                      -The President’s view
                             -Staff schedules
                             -Youth
          -Possible international press conference
                 -The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union
                 -Ziegler’s conversation with Haldeman

                 -The President’s demeanor
                      -Compared to Connally’s demeanor
                            -Meany
                            -Charts

     Agnew
         -Press coverage
         -Statements to press
               -California
                     -ITT
               -Ziegler’s view
                     -Defensiveness
         -Press coverage

     The President’s forthcoming press conference
          -National economy
               -The President’s program
                      -Price controls
                            -Humphrey, Meany
                            -Food prices
                                  -Price Commission
                                  -Middlemen
                                  -Farmers
                            -Ziegler’s view
                                  -Pay Board
                            -Inflation

Ziegler left at 2:00 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Give it to them, but my God, we don't want it.
I'm driving.
I'm driving.
I'm driving.
I'm driving.
I'm driving.
Yeah, is there anything new I'm planning on doing?
I've heard it's gone.
I'm going to do it around 5.11 tomorrow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just want to try to see what's going on.
So, yeah.
All right, Ron, why don't you come over, I'll go over to the last one, and then we'll see what happens.
Pretty well aware of what they're doing.
I think there's a possibility.
I don't like that.
The recent report that was on the front page of the paper, the statistics for the moral averages, something's on the front page.
Tommy did a good job this morning, first he took over this today's show, and I know he would.
It was a good one to punch, you see, we all deserve that, and we're going to come still on Sunday.
And this is today's show, so I hope you don't even go on the wires, because I'm really surprised.
I'll come on right another day.
It's kind of a matter of who you want me to say what.
You're gracious and charming and soft.
I don't think you should be soft.
I don't think you should be soft.
I don't think you should be soft.
Well, I think there are questions that we could run right over.
Connolly and the Mewtwo never let them feel, never let them, Connolly's masters, let them feel that they're getting two yards in any way.
Oh, I don't know.
And I think a posture of firmness and directness
But not to the degree that in any way they can draw the impression that you're angry with them.
Right.
Never, never.
Put them down.
One question came, would you smile?
Take that one.
And then a couple times you were very purposeful.
They get the message back.
What will be the I think attempting to sense
I'm concerned on their part about the attack on the economy.
All the guys are out today calling for an economic program.
Disaster, and the payboard, and the pro-scandalous, and there should be a congressional investigation, and there should be a statistical chart.
That's what you're saying, isn't it?
They'll be looking to detect any presidential concern about these things.
What did Stein do?
Stein?
Yes, he did.
Well, I think he did all right.
A weak statement.
He's done a weak statement.
That's true, but not a very believable statement is.
Take aside, if you put aside food prices, then everything is going good.
That's good from a standard perspective.
Technically, I've argued about food prices.
And the paid price commission is looking at it from the neighborhood.
So we're going to see if they come down.
As Conley said today, the directors of the private industry are doing very well.
Instead of saying, as he did, which played fairly high.
I'm not being critical of it.
No, I don't know.
If the spokesman says, if you put food prices aside, then what comes out is, what would the economic advisors say?
Put food prices aside, things like that.
When that gets out into the news, a lot of people say, what do you need food prices aside?
How do you do that?
I don't understand this.
It doesn't make any school about it this much.
It wouldn't like to start coming down to 14,000.
It might come, the question might come on the vice president today, because he said in, I think it was in New Orleans, I'm not sure if it would be, but he made it in 1972.
So he hasn't told you why he made this decision.
He said the president had consulted with him and wanted to make this decision.
It was not a negative story on his part, it was a mistake.
I'm going to comment on laws.
I'm going to comment on the balance.
Well, that's the set of paths, I know.
But it's still...
Your position has been all along that we draw down below the presidency.
Right, we have equal time for senators.
That was taken.
Ja.
Ja.
Ja.
I don't think they're oppressive in the debate today, but if they do, if they raise it, it seems to me that the position you were elected to 40 years ago, that you are receiving the policies that you've been given to the best interests of the American people, now there are a lot of people who want your job, who would like to be president, and you haven't seen them in any problems.
I'm not making any political speeches.
I'm not answering any partisan political questions.
Because if you say anything you say on the debate question...
I think the whole thing is building that wall and that thing protects us from all the wild stuff.
Also, you see, that's a good answer.
That's a good answer about a whole lot of stuff that's trying to report us.
Preston had a point on me that Preston had something to say to me as many as he's willing to go.
Logan, I have a silver question to get to.
Is it in other countries when you are landing?
We don't know yet.
Other countries and also other cities.
Assault agreement, other trade initiatives.
We don't know yet.
He stayed above that.
Truman got in with him.
He would have defended his, Jerry Herring would have said nothing.
In this case, charges have been made, none have been approved.
Your next question, gentlemen.
See my point?
Don't you think that's a good little way to make it?
The other difference is the personal name.
It wasn't word much, but nobody stated it on the tape.
I don't listen to you, though.
And this time, the, uh, really funny, well, frankly, I don't understand.
I don't understand whether they're intellectual, and it's kind of incredible to find three or four of them, and they, uh, like to support it.
But I think, you know, people like, uh, like Nick Tankish, and, uh, and, uh,
Personally, not unfriendly, let's put it that way.
You could say personally friendless, maybe they're five, and then you could say personally not unfriendly, and there you leave, including the wire service guy like Claire Mayer.
I don't consider him unfriendly.
No, he's not.
And I don't consider him unfriendly.
No, no, no.
Or, or, or, sure.
I know wire service people, other than generally are not unfriendly.
They have to be very, very objective.
Next week.
Take a week.
I want to start right at first.
So if you...
Or they will not expect you before the 3 o'clock.
They expect you right after 3 o'clock.
They start making 2 minutes after about 5.
You can go in at 3.
I'll go in at 3 and say to the president, Adam, we're going to start at 5 after 3, and that way you're cutting.
You don't have to go over there and tell me.
I'll have them cut.
I'll have them cut.
They're hitting and squealing around.
You say it.
I'll say it.
I'll say, gentlemen, the president is good.
We've started five acts, and we should be making 30 to 35 minutes.
Let Carmere say it.
30 minutes after it's gone.
Hold 30 minutes after it starts.
Keep it tight.
Hold 30 minutes, though I don't mean for the timeline.
That will not fill a bunch of minutes.
All over the line.
Does he have a respect for oppressed people and individuals?
I know they like him, but do they respect him at all times?
I've been talking to him.
I know they're on a bus.
No, I don't.
No, they don't give a shit.
They're just like people.
I wonder, his name, or how do you know he lives there?
Well, he lives there.
What did he say, about 6,000?
No, no, no.
He's talking about the direction.
He said all of the Democrats and Senators.
Huh?
He said all of the Democrats and Senators.
The question is, why haven't they done something?
The economy must be settled.
I hit a bus with kids on it, and cut it right in two.
And killed about three high school kids.
In fact, how was the bus going on the railroad?
Well, it was going to the school, driving to the school, and it was going across and across.
I can't quite say if buses were supposed to stop on the railroad.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, it was across the mark, but it didn't have any flash.
It might have been a school train, I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it was going to explode.
I guess one yard.
Correct.
But it cut it in two.
It was.
It was not.
Thank God.
But you cannot say that the black school is inferior.
That's the other thing.
That's right.
But that's one thing we're driving at.
They'll ask that question to attempt to make their charge and substantiate their charge with your efforts to go back and remake it.
See, we're not asking you to get into whether or not
They don't know what they want to do.
They'll talk to them in the office.
They'll talk about busing or to achieve a better education.
They haven't even done it.
What you're suggesting is that you close down every school in the central city to bus all the children out to suburban schools.
How do you accomplish that?
You can't do it.
They will all be in a minority world area.
The schools will be run by whites, where the whites will be in the majority.
Plus, the system couldn't happen.
In other words, that's a point of change, basically.
Bussing cannot achieve that height.
In other words, bussing cannot achieve that height.
There's no way to develop it.
The transportation system cannot achieve that height.
The last time I will give them one in the office when they leave,
My general feeling is that the press conference
Stand for me.
You see, I... Well, yes, I could have one.
I've got to do something about it.
You can't forget even the option.
The other option.
Why?
The difficulty with that, though, is that we're quite huge in the whole business world.
They then select out whatever they want to distribute.
I'm never going to do that, because they're going to be televised.
And I agree with you, you're not reading it.
If the audience is helpful or something.
In the office, is there any further demand?
No, I think... Well, I think the schedule for this deadline makes sense.
Well, I think a month is better for me.
All right.
...as you have done, as you did yesterday.
Oh, that's right.
And then I think the other is, you know, the campaign.
The opportunities for shorter sessions.
You have one point tonight.
Just to break the announcement.
That's what I mean.
I see that the press conference from the White House during that period
It certainly is a contrast.
It's a contrast between...
But also, even then, that phrase, you might consider having one...
The White House is better, but still saying that many of the Western White Houses have good locations.
As a matter of fact, how much did you buy?
Did you go out?
Next month or two, it would be the location to do one.
Well, we don't plan to go out, but we can now.
I won't go out to San Clemente now.
I will go out to Democratic Convention, but that's a time that I'd like to ask everybody to take a good, good vacation.
There's no reason to try to fight that for this country.
I believe that should help me get there.
They'll have quite a gang of people.
Just so we can get into our subject of having this international press conference.
We can be satellite.
Yes, we've discussed that.
I wonder if this is a good idea.
But on the other hand, it puts me in this position of answering for the policy, but it's a little weird.
Which is what we want, you know, rather than the oligarchs that want to light up the bird.
After the trip, it's always moving around.
I've stayed off of them.
Do you have a specific target for them?
Put that down.
Discuss it with Bob.
That might be a very good way to handle that, rather than doing a press conference here.
How do you do that?
I would like to be as aggressive as he is.
I'm very much tempted to at times.
But I don't think Ron, even though he does it nicely, I don't think that he will run over quite as hard.
Do you agree or not?
Absolutely.
His personality comes off very hard.
His manner is very hard.
For example, he's one, just as he cannot...
His personality has not led itself to the point where he soon approached Washington.
He's one of the few people I know who could have picked up those charges long enough.
He used to sit down and ask one question, and within two minutes he had every line out, including the last visit to Maine he had.
Before going any further, all of a sudden he had on the screen these charges.
He was holding them up.
point to the decline, and so forth.
He went on to another question, he said, I have another chart on that.
It just was a long program of charts, so it was a lot of lines going down.
And he got to point across, and I think he told us, he was in a way, he got around by saying, how long did you find it to be short?
And then he talked about it.
Very interesting.
Advocate.
Advocate.
Right.
How do you do it?
He's not getting as much...
I don't know.
How does he do it in person?
You don't want to do it?
He loves to get off a little bit of my mind.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think you're right.
Well, I don't dislike it, actually.
I suppose the newsman comes off more on the offensive than he does on the office.
And I think that, you know, part of the power should be on the office.
I don't know if it's a matter of technique,
As much as it is the combination of technique here in the back, you've generally hit the questions you need to answer, and that's the response.
But I'd like to see more on the offense.
You realize that I'm remaining here over one question.
Part of the economy that is controlled
Those prices, they're all going down, right?
I'll say that, and then I'll go on to say that we're very disappointed.
I mean, after all, people were an advantage as a major part of their bill.
I know that, and that's why I'm very happy, very glad that
Price Commission has investigated that profit margins are too big.
Middleman are making too much.
You can't make far-reaching scapegoats.
You want one-third.
You're going to have to look into that one-third.
It's that hard.
It's very hard, I guess.