Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 335 › Conversation 335-016

Nixon, Ziegler & Ehrlichman on L. Patrick Gray III and FBI

Wednesday, May 3, 1972 · 2:41 PM–2:49 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; [Unknown person(s)]; Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation335-016 on Tape 335 (tape position 00:54:54–01:02:31)StartWednesday, May 3, 1972 at 2:41 PMEndWednesday, May 3, 1972 at 2:49 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 335-016 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Ronald Ziegler and John Ehrlichman to coordinate the public announcement of L. Patrick Gray III’s appointment as FBI Director. The discussion focused on managing the political optics and potential criticisms regarding the vacancy of the position and Gray’s interim status. Additionally, the President reviewed media coverage and the reception of his recent public remarks, including his commentary on the legacy of the late J. Edgar Hoover.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 111.5 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 106.9 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 00:54:54 into the tape and ends around 01:02:31.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
54:56Who said he was going to do it?
54:59Well, that was in material that John sent through the hallway and called me up and asked me if that was the plan.
55:04Well, that has sense.
55:07I guess he should because he is a man.
55:09Right.
55:11Right.
55:11Not afraid of it.
55:13I don't have, I don't really have a good problem with Mr. Harding.
55:15We had talked about it yesterday, and I want to make sure.
55:17Yeah, well, what do you want to do?
55:18The only negative is the negative is that he isn't there.
55:20Correct.
55:20And the negative, the other negative, John, how strong it is, is the fact that he's out there as acting attorney general, only an acting director of the FBI.
55:27Although they'll make their point if you do some key stuff, they won't take it.
55:37They're going to do it anyway.
55:39They're going to do it anyway.
55:42That's fine.
55:43I don't have a strong feeling.
56:31today.
56:31Look at the cricks that are coming off.
56:33It makes you sick.
56:36It's crazy.
56:43I want to feel that.
57:07We've got a story about that.
57:37We've got a very big play on our state of the nation.
57:40And for some of the television last night, on our local news shows, they syndicated the theme.
57:49That was one of the comments.
57:52So I don't know.
57:55I don't know what we're going to see.
57:58I'm not sure.
57:58I haven't kind of touched it the wrong way at all.
58:00I don't know.
58:19Piracy is one of them.
58:20Just saying.
58:21I read the whole course in the morning.
58:23And I want to say to the young people, I raise the question to the young people.
58:25I try to add to it.
58:26I think that it's not necessary.
58:48I just, I just frankly haven't done it well.
59:19I don't really think it's, well, particularly since I ad-libbed the one-minute opening, I mean, what the heck.
59:26That was done.
59:28I don't mean, if they aren't going to carry more than, you know, the other one.
59:32Yeah, but that's the way it is.
59:35How many people is that?
59:36Yeah.
59:37Yeah.
59:42I just want to be sure I have the signals correct here.
1:00:13But I said that you had a signal as to how to answer questions.
1:00:17I had all those lines.
1:00:18Yeah, that we developed.
1:00:20And particularly the lines that you reacted to.
1:01:04considered to be the more sober atmosphere of non-election here.
1:01:07So the man from Hawaii can retain the office through the administrations, regardless of changes in administrations.
1:01:43to be subject to the winds of partisan politics, changes, tyranny.
1:02:02You don't have to spend much time.
1:02:12Are they here?
1:02:13Yes, sir.

NARA Description

On May 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, unknown person(s), and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:41 pm to 2:49 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 335-016 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 335-16

Date: May 3, 1972
Time: 2:41-2:49 pm.
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     An announcement
          -Richard G. Kleindienst
          -John D. Ehrlichman
          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman's call to Ziegler

     L. Patrick Gray, III
          -Appointment
                -Announcement by Kleindienst
                -Disadvantages

     Kleindienst
          -Current position
                -Reports in press

The President talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 2:41 and 2:48 pm.

[Conversation No. 335-16A]

     An unknown person [Ehrlichman?]
         -Return call

[End of telephone conversation]

     J. Edgar Hoover
          -News stories
                -The President’s view
                -Praise
          -President's support, relationship
                -White House staff
                -Charles W. Colson
          -News stories on President's statement
                -Network
                -Haldeman
          -Eulogy
                -Length
                -Delivery by the President
                      -Method
                      -Whitney M. Young
                      -Coverage

The President talked with Ehrlichman between 2:48 and 2:49 pm.

[Conversation No. 335-16B]

[See Conversation No. 23-137]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Ziegler's announcement
          -Gray
                 -Appointment
          -Questions
                 -Importance of position
                      -Supreme Court
                 -Reasons for delay

                        -Political pressures
                  -Continuity of Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] leadership
            -Time
            -President's meeting with Kleindienst and Gray

Ziegler left at 2:49 pm.

Also recorded on May 3, 1972

  • 023-136 2:30 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 2:30 pm.
  • 335-012 2:30 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 2:30 pm.
  • 335-013 2:30 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 2:30 pm.
  • 335-014 2:30 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John K. Andrews, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:30 pm to 2:40 pm.
  • 335-015 2:40 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:40 pm and 2:41 pm.
  • 023-137 2:48 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:48 pm to 2:49 pm.
  • 335-017 2:50 PM · 36 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Richard G. Kleindienst, L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III, unknown person(s), John D. Ehrlichman, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:50 pm to 3:35 pm.
  • 023-138 2:53 PM · 2 min — John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:53 pm and 3:10 pm.

All 63 conversations from May 3, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 335-016, May 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/335-016 (accessed October 10, 2026).