Conversation 335-017

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yes, sir.

Come right in.

All right.

How are you, sir?

All right.

How are you, too?

Thank you.

Mr. President, how are you, sir?

Good.

Can I tell you something?

Yes, you got one.

Yesterday, I authorized the acquisition by IT&T of the S&P.

We need that company, too.

The new name of the company is now S-H-I-T-T.

No, that's right, let it go.

uh, the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

Tell me that if we're in that kid's stadium.

is now faced with quite a degree of involvement

I don't know if you want to tell me something.

Yes.

I would want to comment.

What's he to do?

He's to say that this is a, technically this is, it turns out, it's a final.

That this meeting with the president, the president and you directly have made the offer to Pat, which he's accepted as acting director.

And then, again, that I have, that I was here in order this afternoon.

Mr. Gray and Mr. Klein, technically, are still pending the Board of Congress confirmation, and so these questions are not appropriate.

that because of various considerations which you'll enumerate, that due to the nature of the position and its long tradition and so on and so forth, the person has decided not to object to the nomination of a permanent director in this political year.

He's got a statement written out and said it yesterday, right?

I believe the nomination will be

No possibility of change.

Yeah, he is.

Good, good.

I think we can keep that open.

Here, I'll make a couple of...

And I said, well, I think my recommendation of the other person who came in was Bob.

And he just recommended that to me.

60 was tough, but this is 60 and joining, so this is going to be tough.

That's going to be a tough assignment for your friend here.

Very so good.

That's right.

I'm sealing 90, but I sure am glad you did.

But the point is...

Congratulations.

Well, I'm afraid it doesn't make much difference because .

But, well, might as well look at it to see what our problems are.

That's what I was wondering.

Did you get down the road?

Do you have any choice anyway?

Were you going to bomb?

They may knock it off.

They'll knock it off.

Well, that's Henry's concern.

He thinks that there's a 50% or a 50% chance that they'll knock it off.

But, uh, and I don't know if you've got any questions on the way that they would be able to handle that.

I think we did.

We said, first of all, we asked the same question we'd asked on state issue groups the last time.

approved this group, 68 approved, 17 disapproved.

That is lower than the 74 approved, but it isn't significant.

Well, that was the first question on the survey, which you automatically get a lower answer on.

The undecided went up, 8 to 15.

The disapproved went down also.

But then, in view of the continuing communist invasion of South Vietnam, do you feel the president should cancel the drug in South Vietnam until the Vietnam offensive is discontinued?

You didn't put in there about the arms.

Or do you feel we should go forward with the meeting, even if the offensive continues at the present level?

Leaving out the arms.

23 you said to cancel, 60 to go forward, 17 no opinion.

Then...

He said, in spite of the fact that the communist invasion of South Vietnam is supported by massive Russian aid and military equipment, do you still feel the President should go forward with the meeting?

53.

Still feel he should go forward with it?

2%.

He said no, so he had to adapt to the 23 and get 25 at the same time.

Yeah.

22, I decided.

Then we said, do you feel, or do you feel it would be better to delay the summit trip temporarily until there would be a non-invasion?

33 said yes, 51 said no.

When you boil it down, what you have is 68% approve the summit meeting, 60% say go ahead, it's part of the invasion.

Now, you've got to remember that you have 17% that disapprove of going to the summit to begin with.

of those who approve going to the summit.

To begin with, the 68 percent.

Seventy-six percent of them say go ahead, in spite of the concrete situation.

When they're put in the question of Russian aid and support, it doesn't make any significant change.

Half of them say don't, delay it, even temporarily.

A third of them say do go ahead temporarily.

But when you take those who approve of the trip, 68% who approve of the point of eruption, 21% of those say, if you like, 68% say no.

12% say cancel.

That's about what I expected.

Yeah, it is.

So in the analysis on this, what's happened here is that the potential benefits of a meeting with the top leaders of the government have been

build up for this one.

At the same time, there is evidence the English has slightly weakened public support for the 17th.

But even when the offensive, the massive Russian aid, and the possibility of the lead are included in the questions, public still supports going ahead and leading the trip by a balance of 5 to 3.

Thus, the bedrock support for the trip is at the 50% level.

That's no matter how you raise the negative.

He says this does not mean that should the President announce a delay or an indefinite postponement that the public would not support it.

The typical reaction is to support the President's time of crisis and to accept his judgment.

Nevertheless, should the trip be postponed, it would appear to be necessary to explain the President's reason in as specific terms as possible and to link the potential benefits

We asked, should they go ahead with a cancel letter?

We asked, why do you feel that way?

And on an open-ended basis, the people who said go ahead anyway, 28% on the why said an answer ineffective just to get something done.

is to be doing something, to accomplish something.

It might do some good if nothing's accomplished by sitting back and doing nothing.

Progress.

Right.

That was 28%.

21% said a sort of similar thing, that the need to communicate.

It's better to talk.

Talk is better to run.

But we've built that up for the Chinese.

There won't be change without communication and all that.

19% said to end the war.

You've got to go because the talks could end the war.

And 10% said, don't back down.

We mustn't back off.

Something has to be done.

And it looked like he's backing away.

There's no other reason why they think you should do it.

Once you think you should cancel, 15% of them said, it won't do any good.

It's no use.

Those of you who are against it, then you can do this.

13% say the Russians, you can't talk peace while the Russians are isolating in the war.

The Russians are backing the Vietnamese.

The Russians have to prove they want to talk peace.

Vietnam is more important than that.

That's only 13%.

And only 13% of those who say not to go.

4% say end the war.

5% say win the war.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's about it.

I think it's perhaps only...

Look at that.

He said, you'd be great if you could do it the way you did with the young one.

I said, well, I should have done it.

I said, well, you know, that takes a hell of a lot of time.

I said, well, it's worth it.

I read the same thing with Ron.

He said, well, I'm sure it's great.

Well, it's the old story.

If it's worth the time, I can pay three, four dollars for it.

trying to get it in my head and ad-lib it.

My point is that I said to Ron, he says, not to be carried by, but I said, yeah, Ron, 11 o'clock in the morning.

And I said, as far as the eating was concerned, I said, first, I have ad-libbed my first feed on it.

And that's what the public was praying.

Second on this one, I just wondered, where do you get the marketing from?

more than about a minute of what you're going to say on TV, because they have to carry the setting, the procession, some days of the ministry, as well as see on television.

It doesn't make any, it'll only have an enormous effect on the people there, and what the hell they're going to do with the elements they make, except in the queue of time.

Remember after it died?

Well, it was on TV.

I mean, it was more TV with all of our, with all of our talk on it.

and all these things I do that with.

But with the things I do that with, I don't do it with a man.

That's one of the few that do it.

But believe me, it's easy.

I mean, I don't do it with a man.

I read that well.

I mean, the eulogy, I'm inclined to think, in this instance, that everybody else reads it, that this is going to be understood.

The eon was a graveside cemetery type of thing, which is a different thing than in church.

I think it ought to be read.

I just don't think it's worth the time.

The factory, though, Bob, that I did the first statement, which got an enormous play.

It'll get bigger on the next one.

Right?

I think that was the thing.

And that was major personal...

I'm not going to mention my 25 years this time.

See, I've done that.

That was your first...

I had it all in there, and I cut it out after I said that.

Do you mind if I... That's why I rather think of having done that one, which everybody could tell was it done right, and it's great that they made it in the heart.

I don't think I have to do it this way.

I think you can do it a little different.

Anyway, I just don't think it's worth that much time, or if you think so, I'll take off three hours and get to work for two, two to take me a couple hours.

The balance is not good.

You gave a little of us.

When we discussed this with Henry Bennett's conclusion, I think the president was out and says it,

I don't want to, I don't want to leave them, because I'm not so sure you're right about that.

Well, if that goes into anything you can't do, it's easy to convince them to buy.

Don't read that claim, nevertheless, not even now.

Linking with the benefits of ending the waterway for something good, I just don't understand.

You're actually not...

Canceling the summit, you can't claim to have been afraid anymore.

Well, you could if you'd bought the ticket anyway.

You didn't enter any of these figures, did you?

Yep.

Here's what I can tell you.

The arguments, if you come back down to them, I want to listen to them.

Well, you shouldn't have.

You have to do it to get a message from the soldiers, if you like.

I mean, that's the key.

He said, it's marginal.

He said, it's just a bombing-struck marginal where he's got the law.

For his point, and it really comes down to the really hard thing, he said, there's something.

At this time, with Russian tanks rumbling through the streets of the way, with the President of the United States signing agreements for credits

with arms limitation, posting peace and friendship.

That is very bad for children.

I want to display a very, very great weakness to go after we get warm.

It's not affecting the war, and it certainly may have a sentimental effect on the public opinion of the election government.

It would make sense.

Well, if there's any talks left, that's where it gets down to.

It's doing this.

If they want to talk, I'm sure they'll do it.

And he, of course, says, and he says, you know, next to the president, he says, I've done the greatest thing in this.

He says, my whole life has been that.

Well, we don't mean to be bad, and I'm good about it, but... And we hear him, and it's very, very remarkable.

And frankly, I made it to him, so I had already wired in...

What if you told the Russians?

I was going to say, just that he wouldn't.

That would be banquets.

Banquets don't mean much.

They're starting to be free.

At a time, they are screwing.

They're not.

and might turn out to be a bluff that would pay off.

It's not a bluff, but I'm going to be casting.

Yeah.

Going back to this first one, that it gets a message to Hanoi and Canada and Moscow.

It's an effect on the war, but maybe it is.

I don't know.

The thing that I'm still interested in, and I'm glad to think about it, is that this, by the time we got to China, I wouldn't have been able to see that during the war.

So, at this time, I have a huge courage.

breaking the peace and the continuation of war and self-destruction would not serve the cause of peace.

It would harm the cause of peace.

You might give them that thought, including the address that they're now looking on.

The China trip.

People liked the China trip, even though they thought there were a bunch of goddamn communists.

To back up?

They trust me.

Yeah, as far as they liked it, that's it.

They trust you, and they liked the president doing something.

They don't like to see their government fail, frankly.

That's the other thing.

They don't like to see it fail, but they also don't like to see it seem to be helpless.

See, Johnson gave the appearance of helplessness.

Well... You haven't given that appearance, have you?

In real life, it shows great courage, great leadership.

I'm not so sure.

Not being helpless.

I'm inclined to think...

I think he is sterile, and I mean, I don't think his judgment was entirely the best.

And I must say, there are other little things that must complicate it for him.

The goddamn conduct bomb of Rogers.

But do you think Pedersen had the background, or you don't know?

I think it was Rodgers and Pedersen who did the one on the ceasefire and tried to separate him from the information that was in that.

Maybe you could have a way of checking that.

Maybe you could.

Would you mind?

I'm not that uncomfortable.

Roger's, well, that story is what I want to solve first.

It's pretty strong.

Yeah.

You also have to keep in mind the fact that the United States is still a pretty goddamn strong country.

We've got a strong hand in Europe.

I suggest that you go over and get ahold of Henry and make the strongest case possible.

I mean, you just say you're going.

Henry, I don't know anything about the rest of it.

You've got to realize that you probably have a loser of the San Juan American Holocaust.

I don't see it this time.

That's true.

I think people want hope.

That's the other thing.

They don't want to...

I told him that this morning.

I don't think you give hope when there is none.

But Henry does tend to get blood, sweat, and tears all the time, you know.

You've got to put a little hope in everything.

Not like Roger does.

I'll show you right away.

I think about all of my speeches on Vietnam, and I've always had, you know, on the cliff, as well as Brandon Barrett, you know, that's why they, as compared to the Henry documents, which, you know, just sparking life, you know.

Country of this time, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't.

You've never pulled any punches on the, on the top side of these?

You haven't?

You haven't given up flying?

You haven't?

You haven't given up flying?

You haven't given

Probably the end of the next week.

Okay.

Decisions like this, basically, without having in mind how far you can lead the country.

You know, that's the whole point of all the one of us being brave.

But you can't do it.

The commander's out there without the goddamn troops.

They're forgetting.

Where do you get down?

Well, you get shot down.

And that, that's the problem.

On this one, I just don't think I can kill him.

In the short term, I'm not so sure.

The public reaction, which I anticipate, honestly, although I'd say you might get a strong flip from the Hawks, but you see the great center as well, frankly, the massive people, are just going to be terribly disappointed in the shot.

That's what's going to be told.

You've got to know that.

Henry's concerned there, and mine is too.

And that would be the worst of both worlds.

It would be the worst, but on the other hand, if you bomb them and they didn't cancel, that would be the best of both worlds.

Then you don't go in a sweet position.

Nor does your gun fall.

Just taking a strong hand in the Russians for example.

That's a settlement to cancel the summit.

That's a settlement that Laura, we have not, still cannot be brought to a conclusion in a way to set us back from the Russian.

Then, we've got to assail them.

They're much better than we can change to lose the Russian.

And then, the President will be a Russian passenger for sure.

by canceling some.

Canceling some, I'm sure.

Did you raise that argument with him?

So he probably had the word, you know, a little, he doesn't, he understands it, but he doesn't know how much they did in six months.

They can send out the demonstrations here again and stuff, probably, too.

It's so sad and wild, apparently.

Isn't that interesting though, Sanjay, after we were just passing by?

I think it has to be part of the...

I'm going to make a strong argument that I really believe.

Oh, yeah?

I think you could say, Jessica, tell them that.

Tell them, you personally, that you go along your hawk.

You have to face up to some hard facts.

These are just hard political facts.

We're looking, frankly, at just almost a sure way to lose the election.

put it that way because actually we are you know if that chain of events goes through sure see that's why i said to him now if the cancellation of the summit that is going to have more than a marginal effect of increasing our chances to come out successfully in vietnam we'll do it the minute and then we have the best work but he had to agree

Very little.

He has some, but he's marginal.

Marginal.

Okay.

I'll be here.

Okay.

Secretary Conley, please.

Hello?