Nixon, Kissinger & Woods on Vietnam War and Military Command Structure

7:09I've got to go to Camp David.
7:10I was wondering about the progress of the speech.
7:15I checked on it.
7:16I can get it up about 6 to 5, 8 o'clock, 7 to 8 o'clock.
7:19I've been working on my own notes anyway.
7:22I had a good problem now, and particularly on a point that occurred to me.
7:32You're seeing Larry today, aren't you?
7:39Yes.
7:47I'll be delayed 10 minutes, so don't go out there.
7:51Just have the helicopter still coming in.
8:00Anyway, I determined, Henry, that I don't think you want to break this on Larry today.
8:08But there's got to be a command structure.
8:11If we're going to go over all the marbles, we're not going to be able to have that command.
8:16somebody in St. Patrick's was blockading somebody, the neighbors were doing something else, and even with this half-assed business of reporting and so forth and so on, I think Abrams has to be taken out.
8:28And the way I think we should do it is to send, and I'll recommend this man, I think he loves me very highly, is to establish a new command that we should have had all the time.
8:45particularly with the C part of the SPP, an allied commander for Southeast Asia.
8:50That, in other words, changes the situation in such a way that you take it out from under St. Pat, the allied commander.
8:59Then you could take Palmer, for example, and put Palmer in charge of Southeast Asia.
9:06And then the admiral who was on that staff up there should be up for it.
9:10I replaced Wyant with this tough little guy, the Army guy, under the Allied Command.
9:16I sent him out to that, that lead boat that was in charge of air.
9:22But I think we need to do a command structure.
9:25Al says he's always been for it for six months.
9:27He's doing his hand to it.
9:30And I think he's just got to do it.
9:31And Abrams, I'd offer him an ambassador to Spain if he wanted to come home anyway.
9:36He doesn't want to come home.
9:39The right to, that's fine.
9:42I think we're going to .
9:43All right, fine.
9:44Now, with Blair, you've got a tremendously important job in listening, listening, and listening on the ground.
9:53The state of the president needs him.
9:56He's made the decision.
9:58It's final now.
9:59In any way, you've got to prepare your outfit.
10:02All I need is the president's calendar, and he's reporting on this, and I need to do it.
10:08Well, let me say, getting him out of there is the most important thing.
10:15Don't argue about that at this point.
10:36I'm not so sure that if you had Abrams and she was staffed with Al under it, it wouldn't work.
10:43You know what I mean?
10:45You've got to save the space.
10:50So, you understand, most importantly, you like Paul, right?
10:53Yeah.
10:54Could he handle the job of Allied Commander for the area?
10:57Yeah.
10:58But the Puy was under it.
10:59The Puy is under it.
11:01As I told you, the one thing that concerns me about the police, I mean, he's a hell of a division commander.
11:06You don't know whether he could be tied into the summit of the palm of his throat.
11:11But also, the Admiral, I want the Admiral on that staff to be a really tough man.
11:16He's got to be, I don't, you know what I mean, the best Admiral we've got, you know, that the Navy's got.
11:22Because this is a hell of a big Naval operation on landings, as well as mining,
11:29and all the rest, correct?
11:30Well, that's that one.
11:31You picked the great and the old, and it stops over.
11:32Oh, yeah, that's the reason, you know, we both let it get to me, because there's... Well, it gets to us, doesn't it?
11:37Well, it gets to us, doesn't it?
11:38Because it doesn't keep us anywhere.
11:40You know, it's like...
11:40It's a nice answer.
11:41It's a nice answer.
11:41Whatever you want.
11:42That's what I told you.
12:04something that was typical of Russia, old Russia, well, the historical cement, the president was a very, very, very student of Russian history, something that was historical cement.
12:10I don't want, the one thing I don't want is something modern.
12:12I don't like modern painting.
12:13How's that?
12:13Good, good.
12:30Oh, we ask you, we ask you, we ask you, we ask you, we ask you, we ask you,
13:01I guess that we understand, of course, that if you have to conduct the war from day after, you won't have any answer to that.
13:05So I said, well, I'll just go back to the project.
13:06You know how wars are.
13:07It's a bad thing to do.
13:32Now, with Larry, do you think you can't handle him?
13:33Oh.
13:33He's been told wrong, not asked.
13:34Oh.
14:00Roger, you know, I guess I am.
14:04Well, why don't I, uh... What I could do is meet his plan and try to understand it.
14:22This way.
14:22This is it, though.
14:28Cooperation.
14:31I think that would mean something to me.
14:34You see, I shouldn't be put through emotion, stress, and strain.
14:39I'm happy and proud to have gotten that capital to do what I ought to.
14:43But, you know, when Rodgers comes in, you'll want to piss him.
14:47If you meet him, you'll piss all over him.
14:49If you have Laird come in, I think it's something else again.
14:53I would say that if you let Laird come over, you don't think about it.
14:58Very good.
14:59We'll all be up there.
15:00Thank you.
15:01I would like for Laird to do more, to work more.
15:32before he comes in to see me.
15:34Could you do that?
15:35Sure.
15:36Or do you think this is a good idea, or should I just call him and say, well, we'll come do this?
15:41Well, I'll have to get Alex Johnson in on Sunday morning.
15:43Okay, so he could have heard it, but the time is six years.
15:48I don't think he'll find it.
15:50I don't think he'll recognize it.
15:52He's got a job.
15:54He's got a job.
16:01I'm sure it wasn't in that video.
16:03I talked to you about this command structure.
16:06You realize that I hold that vision of the end of this country.
16:12I'm throwing in all the chips now.
16:15I said, I'm not going to throw in all the chips.
16:19And then have a half-assed command structure.
16:22So you've got to get there and stop it.
16:26I've got to get out of it.
16:28Isn't that your view?
16:29Absolutely.
16:30And I think Abrams, and frankly, I will pay the price.
16:38I will pay the price.
16:41Particularly with Al.
16:42You understand?
16:43So I just let him say it.
16:44I tell him, Al, we want to get it back.
16:45But I think we need a new man in overall command there.
16:49And that's all we've got to go for.
16:54Just tell him what I believe.
16:55I want to order that Monday morning.
16:57I'm interested in it.
17:00Fair enough.
17:02Well, no, no, no, that's something that should be announced by later, you know.
17:09We should tell the town on mail.
17:11That'll get him on something that says, Doctor, should we not be paying for the palm?
17:17I've already been told we haven't been paying for the palm.
17:22I've sent the...
17:29at the table.
17:30There's no question about that.
17:31But secondly, I want Palmer to understand.
17:32That's the thing I've got to have.
17:33He's got to understand.
17:34He puts the record in the present.
17:35He can handle Palmer.
17:36I'll put it around later.
17:37Okay.
17:37Okay.
17:57Let's see if there's too much on the line.
18:09There's no rush.
18:10I'm going up to New York.
18:13I'll be back.
19:10So they say that really it all sorts out.

Nixon, Kissinger & Woods on Vietnam War and Military Command Structure

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 5, 1972

Cite this conversation