Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 343 › Conversation 343-036
Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on Watergate scandal and CIA
Friday, June 23, 1972 · 2:20 PM–2:45 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building
AI Summary
President Nixon met with H.R. Haldeman and Charles Colson to discuss the ongoing fallout from the Watergate break-in, specifically the FBI's investigation and the risks of it uncovering CIA connections or sensitive political associations. The participants analyzed the political landscape and current polling data to strategize for the upcoming election against George McGovern. They ultimately decided to prioritize aggressive negative campaigning against McGovern, concluding that focusing on the opponent's weaknesses was more effective for swaying undecided voters than emphasizing the administration's own policy achievements.
Audio
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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 02:26:16 into the tape and ends around 02:49:22.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
2:26:56Get in there and call the police.
2:27:28Is there a meeting yet?
2:27:29Yeah, we're about to begin the report.
2:27:45Governor Rockfall has cleared the yard.
2:28:58Chuck, I wondered if you would give John Connolly a call.
2:29:14He's on his trip.
2:29:16I don't want to interrupt.
2:29:50I think Helms did too.
2:29:53Helms said, well, I've had no contact with this person.
2:30:00Gray called and said, yesterday, and said, he thought, who had Gray?
2:30:06Gray had called Helms, which we knew, and said, I think we've run right into the middle of a CIA covert operation.
2:30:17Gray said, yeah, and Helms said, I think,
2:30:19It's something we've done, and they said, well, it sure looks to me like that's what we did, or something, and they said, no, we didn't want to do this part at all.
2:30:32And that was the end of that conversation, and they said, so, and we don't.
2:30:35There's nothing that we have that's related to this.
2:30:37So, we talked before that.
2:30:46He said, well the problem is it tracks back to the bad kids.
2:30:49It tracks back to some other...
2:30:51The leads run out to people who have no involvement in this, except by contact or connection.
2:30:58But it gets to areas that are really undesirable to raise.
2:31:03And that's the whole problem with this fellow Hunter.
2:31:06Well, at that point, I was kind of got a picture for him.
2:31:11He said, he said, we'll be very happy to meet up with you.
2:31:15I would like another reason for being helpful.
2:31:16And he made it clear to him he wasn't going to get it.
2:31:18Explicitly, he said he was going to get the generality and the sigma.
2:31:20And Walter's always been doing it.
2:31:20He loves it.
2:31:21And Walter's going to make the call to Greg.
2:31:22I think that's the way to put it.
2:31:23That's the way to put it.
2:31:51How would that work, or how would the chapel, if they got back to Auburn, and somebody from the Miami Bank leaked it to the company?
2:32:03The point John made was the Bureau is going on on this because they don't know what they're uncovering.
2:32:11They just need to continue to pursue it.
2:32:13They don't need to because they've already got their case as far as the...
2:32:18Charges against these men or something.
2:32:19And as they pursue it, because they're there on public.
2:32:20But we didn't in any way say we had any qualitatives.
2:33:12I mean, their money moves in a lot of different ways, too.
2:33:56I remember I had a call from him.
2:34:17He told us there was a bland new system.
2:34:19He called me in the morning.
2:34:19I said, why?
2:34:20Well, I wasn't there.
2:34:20Who taught him to do it?
2:34:21The person taught him.
2:34:21I looked up in the air and said, it was the poor old fellow.
2:34:23He told us there was no more Kennedy's, and he said, you're going to do it.
2:34:24He told us he did it.
2:35:17Oh, hell no!
2:35:18Yeah.
2:35:39Johnson was out of office.
2:35:42That's the point.
2:35:43Eisenhower did not free Kennedy.
2:35:45It wouldn't be proper anyway.
2:35:48That's the point, because you're disappointed.
2:35:51They said I would follow the same thing that Eisenhower did.
2:35:59That guy wasn't running either, but... Yeah.
2:36:07Uh... Hawkeye.
2:36:13Well, we can make a case that I just...
2:36:19I'm sure you didn't have any problems with that.
2:36:23No.
2:36:23I just simply said yes, I will provide for greetings from the important parties.
2:36:27I don't think we have any questions.
2:36:33I just had an alliance.
2:37:01They can't see what we have noticed.
2:37:02No possible risk is to listen to you at all.
2:37:03That's right.
2:37:04I'm afraid it's funny how they're not ready to read those things.
2:37:06Well, it's all the same.
2:37:07I mean, I was just thinking, what did you say about control?
2:37:09Well, it's all the same.
2:37:10It's out.
2:37:10It's been a long time.
2:37:11It's important to listen to them.
2:37:30I wonder why he got out so quick, because visually he stayed there for two weeks.
2:37:34Actually, this is where his lead time usually was until the last few months, but he's been lacking it, presently.
2:37:39Now this time he's putting it out fast.
2:37:42But he wants to get out for a convention.
2:37:44Well, because he's got trial needs, and he wants to put this out probably before he goes to the second stage for the trial needs.
2:37:51That's exactly what he's doing.
2:38:34We thought we were going to do it through going on the Today Show, and the interview there, and all that bullshit.
2:38:42I remember at that time, we didn't know there was any other type of event, didn't we?
2:38:47Yeah, which they've always said, and we've noticed the case, that the three events in China, May 8th, and Russia, that's all.
2:38:53You don't have the event, you've got to make everything in time.
2:38:56But obviously, you're better off if you put three months or three years effort against one event, when you are quitting.
2:39:03The same amount of intent as I ever against a non-event type thing.
2:39:06That's me.
2:39:07I was really impressed with Schultz and all those guys.
2:39:13I told him, I talked to Schultz about Don Colley, and I said that you had mentioned how impressed you were with the paper you had done, and the whole approach that you were using.
2:39:23I don't know.
2:39:25I don't know.
2:39:33Heisenhower, I'll show you how elections work.
2:39:35And then, in November, just before the election, he dropped the 57-20 treaty.
2:39:37I remember the election treaty.
2:39:56The reason for that is something he did, which is congressional.
2:40:00They were taking the shit out of our politics.
2:40:02That's why I was saying to you that whenever Andy and the rest are kicking us in the balls, it's about them taking on the steps.
2:40:07I don't know if you probably understand, but the shit that I'm talking about is not something we want to do.
2:40:11We want to do it.
2:40:11We have too many people to gather us.
2:40:281958, because of the recession, he started here.
2:40:30He started here in 1960-1930.
2:40:30He was Eisenhower.
2:40:31He was 58 on the 7th of March.
2:40:32In April of 49, 35.
2:40:32Eisenhower?
2:40:32Eisenhower.
2:40:54May 54, 31.
2:40:54July 52, 32.
2:40:54August.
2:40:55September.
2:40:56October.
2:40:57November.
2:40:57Election.
2:40:5852, 32.
2:41:56August 61.
2:41:58For example, here's early July 61.
2:42:02Late July 57.
2:42:04Nothing happened.
2:42:06This is gone.
2:42:10August 61.
2:42:13This X-7 was on September 58.
2:42:16October 58.
2:42:20November 58.
2:42:25That's when we were running.
2:42:26There was Eisenhower in 1961.
2:42:28We were running a little lower than that.
2:42:29A little lower than that.
2:42:30Kennedy, you really can't tell about that.
2:42:32At the eve of his lowness,
2:42:59But at 63, at the end, he was 57.
2:43:00The Johnson thing, of course, is massively higher.
2:43:02We've never been very high.
2:43:04We've never been as low as Johnson.
2:43:05I don't think you ever will get up and shoot an 80.
2:43:28that were not in these days.
2:43:29But in Johnson, of course, it was 66, 46, 56, about 31.
2:43:30And then September of 48, October of 46, October of 44, November of 44, September of 48, December of 46.
2:43:32That's all.
2:43:32That's 66.
2:43:32Now, of course, we've been 48, 49, but in ourselves,
2:43:59Except his negatives were higher, 46, 42, 44, 41, 44, 42.
2:44:00Our negatives have never been that high.
2:44:02We were on 49, 36 in that ballpark, right?
2:44:0436.
2:44:04Yeah.
2:44:04And it was on 46, 48, 45, 44.
2:44:55It's an interesting point.
2:44:57You can't, in response to his...
2:45:24You know, attack them.
2:45:26Yeah.
2:45:26He argues quite strongly that the point that the attacks should always be turned to the positive side, that he argues that that's wrong.
2:45:38And that the attacks should stay on the negative side.
2:45:41We should not try to weave in all sorts of positives, naming our positive points.
2:45:48That there should be an attack...
2:46:16We should do, some of our advertising should be attack on McGovern advertising.
2:46:21And that attack should not try to make any names in strong points.
2:46:24It should only make McGovern negative points.
2:46:27It's argument being that it's impossible in this election for you to get less than 40% of a vote.
2:46:33And it's equally impossible for you to get more than 60%.
2:46:40They set up over there.
2:46:41If we go over early, we can get this assured on the networks.
2:46:44And if we wait until 3 o'clock, we've got a problem because we're crossing across the film process.
2:46:50Because if you, you know, they shoot with one camera, they've got to service all three networks.
2:46:57So if we go over now, we're better off than if we wait for them.
2:47:06Okay, ready?
2:47:07Okay.
2:47:08They're over there at the other side of the gate.
2:47:09They're going to go to the theater.
2:47:13I think it's worth doing this.
2:47:16But I don't want to take your time to do it.
2:47:23I'll go.
2:47:23I just want to work with this.
2:47:25I'm absolutely not going to do it.
2:47:27And based on the thing this morning, I feel it's worthwhile doing one thing or another.
2:47:33I think it's important to do this on Monday.
2:47:35Yes, sir.
2:47:43Let's do it earlier in the day, because we are immune jeopardizing.
2:47:55Okay, I've got to put a little bit of stuff on, as soon as possible.
2:48:02Okay, sorry, can I ask...
2:48:09You've got 40% of the people who will vote for you no matter what happens.
2:48:13I agree.
2:48:13And you've got 40% of the people who will vote against you no matter what happens.
2:48:17So you've got 20% of the people left in the middle who may vote for you or may not.
2:48:23And that 20% is what you've got to work on.
2:48:25His argument is that you're so well known, your pluses are so clear as well as your minuses, that...
2:48:32Getting one of those 20 who is an undecided type to vote for you on the basis of your positive points is much less likely than getting them to vote against the government by scaring them to death about the government.
2:48:46And that's the area we ought to be playing.
2:48:50Wow.
2:48:50I didn't think...
2:48:51That's right.
2:48:52My God, I am not going to do it.
2:48:54I really want you to bring in my again and all of us others about that.
2:49:01No.
2:49:01No.
2:49:02No.
2:49:02No.
2:49:03No.
2:49:03No.
2:49:03No.
2:49:03No.
2:49:04No.
2:49:05Never.
2:49:05Never.
NARA Description
On June 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:20 pm to 2:45 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 343-036 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 343-36 Date: June 23, 1972 Time: 2:20-2:45 pm Location: Old Executive Office Building The President met with H. R. Haldeman . [Transcripts of the following conversation may be found in RG 460, Box 172, pp. 1-13, and SI, App. III, pp. 77-87 (1-11).], U.S. vs. Mitchell, exhibit 3, pp. 00014-00016 (1-3).] The President talked with Colson during the transcribed portion.] [Conversation No. 343-36A] [See Conversation No. 25-135] [End of telephone conversation] The President talked with the White House operator during the transcribed portion.] [Conversation No. 343-36B] [See Conversation No. 25-136] [End of telephone conversation] Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 2:40 pm during the transcribed portion. Ziegler left at 2:43 pm during the transcribed portion. [End of transcribed portion] Haldeman left at 2:45 pm.
Also recorded on June 23, 1972
- 025-133 1:16 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:16 pm and 1:20 pm.
- 025-134 1:16 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:16 pm and 1:20 pm.
- 025-135 2:22 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:22 pm to 2:34 pm.
- 025-136 2:29 PM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 2:29 pm.
- 741-013 2:56 PM — President Richard M. Nixon, Donald H. Rumsfeld, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Herbert Stein, Edward R. Spiegel, Harry Hogan, Fritz Roland, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:56 pm and 3:00 pm.
- 026-001 3:00 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 4:06 pm.
- 026-002 3:00 PM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 4:07 pm.
- 741-014 3:00 PM — President Richard M. Nixon, Donald H. Rumsfeld, Herbert Stein, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Edward R. Spiegel, Harry Hogan, Fritz Roland, unknown person(s), John D. Ehrlichman, Robert H. Finch, Manolo Sanchez, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:00 pm to 4:22 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 343-036, June 23, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/343-036 (accessed September 30, 2026).