Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 355 › Conversation 355-020

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Railroad Retirement and Veto strategy

Thursday, October 5, 1972 · 8:08 AM–9:16 AM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation355-020 on Tape 355StartThursday, October 5, 1972 at 8:08 AMEndThursday, October 5, 1972 at 9:16 AMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 355-020 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman met to discuss the administration's legislative strategy regarding railroad retirement vetoes and ongoing welfare reform negotiations. The conversation focused on the political implications of potential veto overrides and the complexities surrounding the Family Assistance Plan, including proposed amendments by Senators Ribicoff and Stevenson. Ehrlichman updated the President on current legislative developments and testing metrics to determine the administration's tactical approach to securing support.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 1 minute of this recording (about 12% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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John, on a couple of points, on my oral retirement, I assume that that was a veto, I mean, a message that we expect to be overwritten.
And the question, is that second ahead?
So it's not overwritten?
I don't expect it to be overwritten, but it is.
Yeah.
That's fine.
That's fine too.
What about the situation on welfare?
What have they done so far?
They put in the, they went out to the test and they turned down the cost.
And see if we can get that.
That's good.
That's good.
So now rock.
That's good.
Good.
Now.
Start to rock.
Yeah.
The first three are in the center and the second is in the fourth.
This is kind of what?
Oh, I see, fine.
In other words, family assistance is kind of four.
Right.
What is that amount of money, you know, six and a half years out of the state?
That's for one year annually or over three or four years or what?
Right, right, right, that's all.
Yeah, right.
This does not provide result any better.
So.
So, lift.
And then we hope what?
What?
Do I pay it or not?
Oh, we're getting some of that.
I'm telling you.
Well, I don't know if we can do that.
If I say it's for her, that would be a mistake.
Yeah, all right.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
So we like to say that we don't get the satisfaction that we should in the background.

NARA Description

On October 5, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 355-020 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 355-20

Date: October 5, 1972
Time: Unknown between 8:08 am and 9:16 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

        Railroad retirement legislation
            -Veto

        Welfare reform legislation
           -Abaraham A. Ribicoff amendment
           -Adlai E. Stevenson, III amendment
           -William V. Roth
           -Title I
           -Family Assistance Plan [FAP]
                -Amount of money
                -Length of assistance
           -Strategy
           -Roth

Also recorded on October 5, 1972

  • 355-015 8:08 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am.
  • 355-016 8:08 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am.
  • 355-017 8:08 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am.
  • 355-018 8:08 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am.
  • 355-019 8:08 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 8:08 am and 9:16 am.
  • 355-021 9:16 AM · 31 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:16 am to 9:50 am.
  • 031-001 9:48 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:48 am.
  • 355-022 9:51 AM · 25 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:51 am to 10:20 am.

All 36 conversations from October 5, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 355-020, October 5, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/355-020 (accessed October 1, 2026).