Conversation 355-021

TapeTape 355StartThursday, October 5, 1972 at 9:16 AMEndThursday, October 5, 1972 at 9:50 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  [Unknown person(s)]Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On October 5, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:16 am to 9:50 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 355-021 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 355-21

Date: October 5, 1972
Time: 9:16 am - 9:50 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

        Nguyen Van Thieu
           -Negotiations
               -Recalcitrance
                   -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

                              (rev. Oct-06)

Soviet Jewry
    -Emigration
         -The President’s forthcoming press conference
             -[William P. Rogers]
             -Senate
    -US relations with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
    [USSR]
         -US public relations
         -George S. McGovern
         -Senate
         -Public debate
    -Kissinger’s schedule
         -Senate Foreign Relations Committee meeting, October 4, 1972
             -Jacob K. Javits
             -US-Soviet relations
                  -Kissinger’s points
             -J. William Fulbright
             -John Sherman Cooper
             -John J. Sparkman
             -William B. Spong, Jr.

Andrei A. Gromyko
   -Helicopter

Vietnam
    -Possible settlement
        -The President’s forthcoming press conference
             -Ronald L. Ziegler
        -Thieu
             -South Vietnamese government
                  -North Vietnam
                      -Unknown persons comment
        -Watergate
        -Negotiations
             -Hanoi
             -Cease-fire and bombing halt
                  -1972 election
        -1972 election
             -Saigon
             -Hanoi
        -Bombing

                          (rev. Oct-06)

    -Prisoners of war [POWs]
         -Hanoi, US peace movement
         -Thieu
              -September 11, 1972 publicity
                   -August 29, 1972 proposal
              -The President’s January 2[5], 1972 proposal
-McGovern’s Vietnam speech
    -Response
         -The President’s instructions
-Negotiations
    -Hanoi
    -Status of talks
         -Kissinger’s view
              -Timing of possible settlement
              -Possible settlement
                   -Thieu
                       -North Vietnamese in South Vietnam
                       -US troop withdrawal
                       -POWs
    -Haig
         -Possible US withdrawal
              -POWs
              -Cease-fire
              -Timing
                   --1972 election
-Bombing
    -North Vietnam
-Withdrawal
    -Cease-fire
         -Unilateral basis
    -Prisoner exchange
-Thieu
    -Haig
         -Role
    -Message
         -Ellsworth F. Bunker
-Bombing
    -Negotiations
         -Timing
              -1972 election
                   -Haig

                          (rev. Oct-06)

              -The President’s conversation with Gromyko, October 2, 1972
-McGovern’s position on issues
    -Peace offer
         -Kissinger’s schedule
         -The President’s forthcoming press conference
    -The President’s forthcoming press conference
         -Busing
         -Negotiations
    -McGovern
         -Kissinger’s view
    -Moscow
    -Press treatment
    -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
    -1972 election
    -Amnesty
    -Legalization of marijuana
    -Unknown issue
    -Federal spending
    -Welfare programs
    -Europe
    -Asia
         -US bases
    -Speech, October 4, 1972
         -Isolationism
              -US allies
    -Indira Gandhi
    -Pham Van Dong
    -Haig
    -Rogers
         -Involvement
    -McGovern’s forthcoming speech
-Negotiations
    -1972 election
    -Thieu
         -Roscoe Drummond
    -McGovern
         -W[illiam] Averell Harriman
    -Settlement
         -North Vietnamese
              -Kissinger’s concern

                                         (rev. Oct-06)

The President talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 9:16 am and 9:50
am.

[Conversation No. 355-21A]

         Request

[End of telephone conversation]

                           -Bombing
                       -Bunker
                           -Possible involvement
                       -Kissinger’s possible role
                       -Americans
                       -Thieu
                           -US economic aid

         Kissinger's schedule
             -William F. Buckley, Jr.
                 -Upcoming conversation with Kissinger
             -The President's schedule
                 -Proposal
                 -John N. Mitchell
                 -Stephen B. Bull

Kissinger left at 9:50 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

We've got to build ourselves up.
I'm surprised at the state we're in.
We just have to deal with it.
It's a great part of life.
Uh, so that could have been made here, they've got Soviet jewelry that would say less than the amount that's in here.
You could say, you know, it's a lot cheaper than the amount that's in here.
Now, I can do it flatly by saying that.
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That's crazy for the state of Moscow because it's such a concern to the state of the city and the people.
I don't support the government.
The government takes the nation.
Now you've got your plan to take the nation.
Now you've got your government.
The government is not going to take the nation.
The government is going to take the nation.
That's a very good plan.
I like federal issues.
And now we're in a place where there's some unusual evidence.
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But what do I say then?
I read yesterday, we were talking to each other, and I was going to tell you about it, and I was going to tell you about it, and I was going to tell you about it, and I was going to tell you about it,
And each, we're actually doing so in some way, but we're not doing so in the way that we're supposed to.
So I suppose that this became very much of an inspection, by treating it like that.
It's a pain in the ass to do things the wrong way, but it's good that we are doing things in the channel
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I don't know whether I've had a chance to tell you.
I did tell you, I think, that from these words to these words, what I do right now, I think you may have heard this from the Harry Potter video.
I'll be traveling with Bob and all the people that I have time to see.
Probably consider naming them on a press conference, but I'm not going to send you.
They're going to be paying me a fair amount of money.
I'm not going to give any of that to any of the people, but I'll try to do that.
The other part of it is,
The only time I think it was 2,000 I just got here.
The other time, I think it was 8,000.
What would you say, I'm curious?
Well, it's just, in the case where he's not going to talk to the police, he's not going to talk to the police.
He's not going to talk to the police.
He's not going to talk to the police.
Thank you.
He's not going to talk to the police.
He's not going to talk to the police.
He's not going to talk to the police.
Just gather around.
OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK. OK.
As Harvey said, it's the demand of the other side to take over the government.
I've got to go.
I've got to go.
The option, it says here, the option for the location of the house.
I'm just going to say more than it's not.
Yes, that's right.
No, in this context, we've listed everything.
But if you eventually bought the ticket, I know it's just a problem.
Now, the other part that I think needs to be made, however, is the public movement.
When I ask about it, this is what I'm more about.
As far as those matters in the Senate go, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's the session.
That would be better than any other, but I stopped it, considering this election.
It's applied in this election.
I think that that's significant.
If you could say that, that would be one of the biggest moves through this whole process.
That would help her.
I'll tell you how it would help her, and I know it.
But I think it would help us domestically.
On the bottom.
I read around the long answer.
I don't know why you're thinking about it.
I thought I had to ask you all about it.
I think on this one, you've got to take time off the list.
I think you've got an audience and it's a changeable way.
I believe that the so-called preschools in the U.S. have also exploited and exploited these people.
I'd say they've struggled enough.
And we've had a time in the past where it's possible to look for care.
And come to think of it, I don't mind you saying, in this context, we say, but not as we know it,
But when you say what's been offered, it would be terribly helpful to have the director go and explain what we have offered to the parents so that they can hear the news.
When we talk about institutes, we have to do the same thing.
We have to have the department as strong as the department is.
Because when they went to Africa, they kept me in line.
I'm not criticizing them on it.
They claim that they did it because on August 29th you had made a list of things we had all done.
I'm not sure that was the reason.
I'm sure it was.
I can't hear you on that proposal.
Exactly.
But I mean, I didn't want to do it.
But obviously the record will be cleared.
The record, I mean, I mean, I write the record.
The record is clear that it's going to be blocked.
Oh, so it's going to be blocked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
because at this time we're not.
Truth is, the last time I was here, you should know you're going to be a monster.
You may or we may have to unleash you, and I'm not sure it will be how far it goes.
You see what I mean?
We may.
And so what you better be thinking of in terms of what's going on with you.
You may have to leave.
I'm just setting up your boxes.
We can't go anywhere without you.
You understand?
I don't care about the economics.
I'm working on a chart.
I'm in law.
I'm in the government.
See, you have a barrier.
You've got to have the first one.
You've got to have the best excuse.
You're going to break off.
And the best excuse is to break them off at a time when it's a screw-up.
But you've got to let them.
I really am doing this to us all the time.
And if there's any chance of a screw-up, I doubt there will be a screw-up.
Now here comes the presidential candidate saying look forward to it.
I think he might use it.
I mean he could use it that way.
But there's no possibility that they would have settled this time.
See, unless he gets coaching from alone, he will bother them more than any man, which is practically one hell of a decision.
Well, it depends whether he's there.
It would be best if he didn't do anything.
Secondly, we have to make the decision.
We can easily get the talks broken off.
I haven't guided these into a combination of certain senses.
They're more eager to settle this month than they'll ever be again.
Because this month we have a deadline running, and that's what we can't control.
It's an infection.
It's supposedly a case of an ultimatum.
We're not going to do that.
I'm not going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
by some cosmetic devices that he don't like.
And it's a bad thing to say it.
On the other hand, maybe they should check with the doctor.
Not because of these cosmetic products, but because what he wants is to push the
He has no incentive to get an offshoot when I get out of business.
And then he's going to stay in Florida.
He's better off staying in the country than I am.
So he's never going to be fuller or setter.
And if this doesn't work, then I have to come to the conclusion that we will be driven within a measurable time to try to put a counselor out of business.
And I know he's not going to
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They're all dead.
They're all dead.
They're all dead.
We have the more rattles now than ever before.
And it's the thing that's been going on for a long time.
That's what she said.
She reckoned it was actually the version of it.
Hague said it was just the version.
Well, no reason to say Hague didn't do it.
No, it's not Hague who did it.
Because Hague figured it each day.
All the newspaper says is that it's a confrontation.
And if he hasn't done it, what does he want to do with it?
I sent a message to them to make sure that they would let me go back.
But I couldn't.
I really haven't had any clients.
But these guys have been a hotline for me.
I've been saying, this is the simplest, best program that I've ever had.
And so to me, it's, you know, I know it's something that people find that's incredible, but that's
I'm after the second.
I'm after the second.
I'm after the second.
I'm after the second.
It's going to be by osmosis.
We would argue that there are more of them down there.
And we'd get out and take them over.
And it's obvious that these are part of the problem.
They definitely have to push the button to display it.
If they're not there, then we wouldn't be allowed to hear how it's going to work.
But all of that, they've got to do it.
But then we'll go with another test that we're going to test into it.
I don't think
And how do we do it?
Does it go here?
Does it go here?
No, I know.
I've said it to you before.
It goes a week.
Well, you've told us it's another book, but we have to consider how it relates with what you've said to me.
So is that what I'm going to say?
A week?
I don't know.
A week.
I think there's something to be said through your testimony right over here.
You've got to put it on the right now, particularly from the very beginning, out of the peace office.
See, that's another problem.
Both of our governments have dealt with the peace office on the 10th.
Right.
But the posting I sent over the following weekend is something that has elements of this.
Right.
This way, on the 10th, I'll be on the way back to Georgia, and I'll be on the 11th.
Well, I wonder about that.
And I think we have to think about whether or not we may have to go maybe, you know, if we want to go, however, if we don't, I'm not sure.
I don't think I have anything to say on this.
I don't know.
I think we ought to speak.
I would not say no, because it would be better than I said it after you spoke it.
The guy is saying something different.
All the papers will be full of the fact that you're talking to me.
I would say that I would make quite the difference now than earlier.
It will help me accomplish this job.
We don't like it hard.
We can't provide too much of that.
It's fine if somebody has to get up and say something and they can't do it.
I was just wondering if you could say it now, that there would be a defensive answer, though, if you can't talk to that child and just advise him he's making a terrible mistake.
Well, I can just let you know what I said, but I'm not going to talk to you at any time.
I appreciate it.
I don't know.
Well, O.D.A.
is the focus of the petition that I'm working on.
Well, he's putting down a terrible irresponsibility against the United States.
He's putting down a terrible irresponsibility against the United States.
He's putting down a terrible irresponsibility against the United States.
He's putting down a terrible irresponsibility
Yes sir.
He was the one who corrupted the administration and he said the president was the one who gave this commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
He said that was not a good commandment.
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We don't attack man's morality.
We don't attack his morals and so forth and all of it.
They reject what is wrong.
Here's an ad that's come out for a total ad.
If I ask for the legalized marijuana, an ad has come out.
It has come out for very, very nice horses.
An ad has come out for medicine.
An ad has come out for medicine reasons.
An ad has come out for welfare programs.
An ad has issued an opinion on welfare programs.
And so now we're in this department, and I've been on the program for a long time.
The program is broad, and that's why our alliance is in New York, and a lot of our base is in Asia.
And I'm glad that we were able to criticize the white church, and the white church is trying to do something.
And what's the name of God?
Yeah.
Now yesterday he made a speech in which he said that the world's best comfort is in human isolation and that we all have the right to be alone.
You don't have to stop the Allies.
The Allies are all for you.
That is, the Allies are praying in case of one quality, that is, they are permitted to carry the impact themselves.
We don't pray for the city, we pray for the city.
I don't think we should.
I don't think we should hit him on this beach next week.
We should do it now.
We should do it now.
We should do it now.
But, but, the negotiations cannot close before the election.
You've got to be on a leash.
You've got to play with God's hand.
Oh.
Is there anybody else?
I don't know.
I don't even know.
Nobody else knows, correct?
I don't even know.
But then you've got to be on a leash.
And if every son of a bitch is based on the word of God, then you've got to be on a leash.
Right.
I don't think he has a chance of bringing it up, but that gives you the pleasure of bringing it up without you seeing it.
You will know, but you won't be able to tell us.
You have to be very careful, and ask the government to accept what you've said.
The greatest thing you can do is go to your last resort, the blue.
Not for the best people, but if they want to do this, then for us.
Right off the bat.
That's for a change that is for the short-haired.
If we can't get it, we can't do this.
It's funny.
We all know the rest of the table.
And you also don't know, like, this kind of thing, how much fuel you're going to want, like, here.
But at that point, you're going to have to close down those, and you're going to have to find a way to save it.
They know very well the tools to visualize themselves.
Therefore, I do imagine that Karen, Quaker, and all are doing their goddamn best through their sources to drive them into our lives.
See?
And it may be that they have found their own accurate project and set the rules.
I don't think so.
It doesn't come out of my head.
But we told you pretty well everything we're doing.
We don't have that kind of meeting.
The basic problem is that there's no settlement between these two as well.
I can't keep doing that.
It's longer or longer.
And there's the additional...
and that's where you have to be careful because we've pushed it off into this loophole.
They won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in, they won't step in.
The only track that that car can hit is the sort of 700 view mark.
That never extended, that was just lying over for three or six minutes to an end.
But it's a disaster for us.
Supposing, by an e-marker, that, uh, supposing if I next do a death next to an old man, it's their reaction.
That's obviously not going to happen.
The creature is bound to do it.
It's still bound to do what she's done.
I hope there could be a quantum element to that.
We can't say in relation to that, that's why, but there is no set of possibilities.
I think actually the button you require to do that would be on page two.
Who else is going to do it?
The old man is going to try.
I mean, he's a wonderful guy.
We've had an interview with him a lot of years ago, and we think he can actually put up to it.
If he can't do it, that's important.
But it wouldn't be... You're going to make your deal, though, so it's tough.
Mr. President, we have not suffered all of this time.
You have not done this afternoon.
To put you in that good deal, you cannot easily accept the American deal.
And therefore, even if you close, you will be interested in this, this, and this plan.
I mean, it doesn't have to be, it will actually be seen by everybody.
But we also want you to offer to take care of the case.
Right.
That's what I want to do.
Right.
Again, I'm not going to ask you to help me with that.
But on the other hand, Mr. President, we're out.
We've got to get out.
I'm having Bill Buckley come down tomorrow.
I want to talk to him, not give him any advice.
Just imagine that.
See what he thinks.
I don't want to give him any advice.
I don't want to give him any advice.
What are you going to do this week?
I don't know.
I'd like to go over the proposal with you so that you know what I'm going to do tomorrow morning.
Tomorrow morning is perfect.
And Saturday night is a little hotter.
But I have Mitchell and that bunch coming in.
I've got to give them the time tomorrow morning.
Well, you set it up.
So, in other words, you know, whenever your stuff comes first anytime, just tell Bull, you've got to come in.
Just tell Steve Bull that you need an hour.
Make an hour.
He says it.
He's got you.
and announces it should be on the public schedule.
Alright.