Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 366 › Conversation 366-009

Nixon, Colson & Ehrlichman on 1972 Presidential Campaign and Watergate

Saturday, October 14, 1972 · 1:40 PM–2:30 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 50 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Sanchez, Manolo; Ehrlichman, John D.; [Unknown person(s)]Conversation366-009 on Tape 366StartSaturday, October 14, 1972 at 1:40 PMEndSaturday, October 14, 1972 at 2:30 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 366-009 ↗

AI Summary

In this meeting, President Nixon met with Charles Colson, Manolo Sanchez, and John Ehrlichman to discuss political strategy and campaign messaging for the 1972 election. The discussion centered on managing legislative issues, such as potential vetoes of social spending bills, and neutralizing corruption allegations related to the Watergate scandal. Participants also reviewed the effectiveness of campaign rhetoric against George McGovern, focusing on his foreign policy positions and the authenticity of anti-war statements, while strategizing on how to appeal to specific labor and ethnic constituencies.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 42.0 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 26.2 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 4 minutes of this recording (about 8% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Well, I don't know.
I hope it's the last day of the conference.
You ever get to camp in there?
No, I think maybe you will go ahead.
You can drive up and be there when you get there.
Okay.
We can come up late tonight or morning.
No, you go ahead.
You go ahead.
Take a seat.
Take a seat.
I'm going to go with the self-righteous speech, so I'm coming that far away.
I'm going to have to do all the answers as far as I can.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know about that, but I think it's true.
They may, they could see the witness present.
They may push this correction.
What a buggy said was an issue.
So far, I don't know if it's over right now.
Just a little bit creepy now.
That's not much.
Just a little bit.
And then he goes to Seattle and speaks on that, right?
So.
So.
I don't have a record, just for today, but I think he was dead.
I thought it was dead.
What I mean is, if he is still going to be killed, what is people going to think?
They still have to bomb the guy and make trouble for him.
And they need to see him for the rest of the time, because they need to see him.
The other two years, I'm going.
And we're all going to be going.
We're all going to be going.
And I didn't kill two years last night.
I didn't kill two years last night.
I didn't kill two years last night.
I was like, your guy ain't gonna come for me, I'm sure.
Because I don't care what's going on.
I don't think this is funny.
I think it was a made-up deal by a professional.
It was too dead professional to, you know, it was not like an average person.
Once it turns out, Jerry Williams, the, you know, I don't even know, he had a set of things, you know, he had points of vulnerability.
They didn't use it.
They didn't use it.
They threw it away.
They didn't use it.
Thank you.
The entire conspiracy, just the challenge of the FCC goes on and on and on.
They've been wearing pictures for too long.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
... ... ... ...
What he did was... What he did was...
Okay.
Anyway, when we saw them, we saw some of the girls this morning, and it was spectacular.
So, all I can say is that we didn't know, but let's face it, I didn't play it seriously.
In terms of the talk, it was a part of the speech, part of the substance of the speech.
It was a lot of talk.
It's more important than $1,000.
It's more important than $1,000.
I've always felt this way.
I give $1,000.
So I have to lose.
So that means you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
She came out of the writing, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in, and a lot of letters came in.
I don't like the fact that it's allowed.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We want it to be critical.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's the magazine that the president was saying is buying.
And they're looking for a price for it.
But perhaps it didn't fail.
That's what the fiction comes from.
I don't know.
I think we're just getting at it.
Listen to our assholes.
Listen to them.
Try getting into the books.
You wouldn't get it, Mr. President.
You could learn from the thing.
You might get more of it.
You might have to pay any price for it.
That's right.
You've got to pay no price for it.
And what people are getting out of it is a balance against the church, the big or big business.
You've got to make that stand.
You can't make that church stand.
And especially, you know, this kind of business.
Imagine that goes to 750,000 people who don't even know what they're saying.
This is the lowest level of the building.
You know, this is a real signal.
You know, we're all in the same boat.
And every time you rest, you've got one of these.
This guy's a killer.
You love him.
Maybe you're not that impressed with him.
Maybe you're not that impressed with him.
This is cheating.
Suburbanize.
Suburbanize.
Suburbanize.
Suburbanize.
Suburbanize.
It's a boring, so it's a boring shit.
Oh, and it's a little, you want to remember, solid basement that was still inside.
Historically.
Hello?
What?
I don't know.
That's what he said.
... ... ... ... ...
uh... uh... uh...
It may get more active.
It's very slow.
Say, this is a very interesting campaign.
Say, this is a very easy campaign.
Very slander of a president.
That's right.
I hear you, Doug.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Uh, sure.
What do you want me to do?
And right where it was, it was a warning.
I said, all right.
He just turned and he said, well, I don't think that's the place.
I said, well, I don't think that's the place.
I said, well, I don't think that's the place.
I said, well, I don't think that's the place.
I said, well, I don't think that's the place.
I said, well, I don't think that's the place.
and something to learn from.
Thank you.
You have to cut across the board.
You have to cut across the board.
The best ever.
The best ever.
The best ever.
of a grocery store.
I'm sorry, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think I...
Yeah, I've asked, but I always hear it from you.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
All right.
All right.
Cut it.
Cut it.
That's all I need.

NARA Description

On October 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Manolo Sanchez, John D. Ehrlichman, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:40 pm to 2:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 366-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 366-9

Date: October 14, 1972
Time: 1:40 pm - 2:30 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson and Manolo Sanchez.

        The President's schedule
            -Congressional schedule
            -Camp David
                -Transportation

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 2:30 pm.

                 -Speech
                 -Photograph session
                     -Congress

        Congressional relations
           -Water bill
                -Veto
           -Federal spending
           -The President’s Atlanta speech, October 12, 1972
                -Moral values
                -Taxes
           -Social Security bill
                -Veto
           -Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
           -Water bill
                -Possible veto override
                    -Congressional schedule
           -Watergate
                -Edward M. Kennedy
                    -James O. Eastland
                         -Senate Judiciary Committee
                              -Wright Patman

        1972 campaign issues
            -Corruption charges, Watergate, sabotage
                -Possible effect
                -George S. McGovern’s Seattle speech, October 13, 1972
                     -National defense

             -Supersonic Transport [SST]
             -Audience
                  -Lawyers
        -McGovern’s forthcoming television [TV] speech
    -Vietnam
        -McGovern
             -Use of tape of alleged Vietnam veteran
                  -American Broadcasting Company [ABC]
                      -Authenticity
                      -Jerry Williams
                      -ABC
                           -Boston
    -Federal Communications Commission [FCC] investigation
        -Possible conspiracy charge
        -Comparison to Joseph McCarthy
             -Composite photograph of Miller Tydings [and Earl Browder]
    -Charges of corruption
        -Richard (“Dick”) Tuck
             -Peter Lisagor
    -Albert E. Sindlinger poll
        -Sindlinger’s syndicate

Southern trip by the President
    -Atlanta
    -The President’s speech
        -News coverage
              -Colson’s conversation with Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
              -News summary

John B. Connally
    -TV speech
        -Colson’s recent

Issues
    -McGovern's trustworthiness
        -Economic issue
        -McGovern’s welfare proposal
    -Foreign policy
        -Nelson A. Rockefeller’s forthcoming National Press Club
         speech
        -Rogers

        -Connally’s TV speech
    -Vietnam
        -As US ally
        -McGovern’s recent speech
            -Press reaction
                -New York Daily News editorial
                -Right
                -Joseph C. Kraft, James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
                -George Meany’s statement

Press relations
    -Use of terms “Republican”, “Democrat”
         -Time
    -Democrats for Nixon
         -New York Times editorial
    -National defense
         -McGovern
              -Op-ed article
                  -Patrick J. Buchanan
              -Adlai E. Stevenson, III
              -Connally’s TV speech

1972 campaign
    -Colson’s conversation with George Shultz, October 13, 1972
        -George Meany
            -John F. Henning
                  -California
                  -Speeches
                      -The President
            -Connally
                  -California, Colorado
            -American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial
             Organizations [AFL-CIO]
            -Paul Hall
            -Post 1972 election
            -Unknown magazine [The American Federationist] [?]
                  -McGovern
    -Labor
        -The President’s recent conversation with John D. Ehrlichman and Raymond
        K. Price, Jr.
        -Peter Lisagor

        -Big business
        -The American Federationist [?]
            -Readership
                 -Politicians
    -Business community
        -Photograph sessions
    -Suburbanites
        -White Plains, New York, Pasadena, California
        -View of Meany, Italian-Americans
        -View of blacks
        -John V. Lindsay

Ethnic groups
    -Italian-American Catholics
    -Unknown organization
         -Carl Lozano [?] [sp?]
    -Democrats
    -Building trades
    -1968 campaign
    -International Brotherhood of Teamsters
    -Communists
    -Thomas J. Houser
    -Polish-Americans
    -Ohio Polish Congress
         -Republicans

Political strategy
     -South
          -“Solid South”
          -Texas

Polls
    -Ohio
        -Possible trends
    -George C. Wallace
        -Michigan
            -Detroit News
    -Michigan
        -McGovern
        -Detroit News
        -George W. Romney

        -1966 election
        -Busing
             -Standard ballot
                  -Wallace
    -Sindlinger, George H. Gallup, Richard M. Scammon, Louis P. Harris
    -Effect of the President's May 8, 1972 decision
        -Patriotism
    -Daniel Yankelovich, Scammon, Gallup, Harris, Sindlinger,
     Samuel Lubell
        -Vietnam War

1972 campaign
    -McGovern
        -Connally, Wallace
        -Public appearances
        -Corruption charges
             -Evidence
                  -Joseph McCarthy
    -Campaign practices
        -Tone
             -R. Sargent Shriver
             -Lisegor
    -Press relations
        -Catherine Mackin
             -McGovern rhetoric
        -Congressional schedule
        -William S. White
             -Vietnam
                  -McGovern’s charges and claims
    -Attacks on institution of Presidency
        -Response
             -Robert J. Dole
             -Clark MacGregor
    -Attacks on Republican headquarters
        -Response
             -List publication
             -News coverage
             -News summary
        -Washington Post
        -New York Times
        -McGovern

                 -Lawrence F. O’Brien, Jr.
                 -Dole’s TV appearance
                     -Comments
                          -Youth
                          -Joseph McCarthy
                     -Financial statements
             -Lawrence O'Brien

The President talked with Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 1:40 pm and 2:30 pm.

[Conversation No. 366-9A]

        Congressioanl relations
           -Legislation
                -William E. Timmons
                -Federal spending cuts
                    -Defense
                -House Resolution [HR] 1

[End of telephone conversation]

        Corruption issue
            -Harris poll

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 1:40 pm.

        The president’s schedule
            -Item for helicopter

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 2:30 pm.

        Corruption issue
            -Harris poll results
                -Campaign contributions
                -Campaign practices
                     -Democrats
            -Watergate
                -Civil liberties
                -Importance
                -Involvement of the President and aides
                -Cynicism

             -Campaign practices
                 -Public expectations
                 -Bombing, violence
                      -Morality
             -Proximity to 1972 election
             -McGovern
             -1956 campaign
                 -Adlai Stevenson, II’s charge
                      -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                      -The president’s experience as vice president
                      -Reaction
             -John B. Connally’s TV speech
                 -Tone

         The President’s schedule
             -The President's speeches
                  -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                  -Radio Address on Crime and Drug Abuse, October 15, 1972
                  -Radio Address on the Philosophy of Government, October 21, 1972
                  -Radio Address on the American Veteran, October 22, 1972
                  -Veteran’s Day
                  -New York
                  -Education
                      -Price
                      -Aid to parochial schools
                           -Advertising

The President talked with Ehrlichman at an unknown time between 1:40 pm and 2:30 pm.

[Conversation No. 366-9B]

         Speech drafts
             -Aid to parochial schools
                 -Price
                 -Taxes
                       -Timing
                       -Camp David
                           -Price

[End of telephone conversation]

         The President's administration

             -McGovern
             -Spokesmen
                 -Elliot L. Richardson
                 -Shultz’s activities
         Speech
             -Tax policies
                 -Property taxes
                      -Senior citizens
                      -Timing
                      -Aid to parochial schools

Colson left at 2:30 pm.

Also recorded on October 14, 1972

  • 798-014 11:53 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:53 am and 11:56 am.
  • 798-015 11:57 AM · 1 hr 30 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Raymond K. Price, Jr., John D. Ehrlichman, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, and David C. Hoopes met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:57 am to 1:27 pm.
  • 798-016 1:27 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:27 pm and 1:30 pm.
  • 366-007 1:30 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:30 pm and 1:40 pm.
  • 366-008 1:30 PM · 51 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:30 pm and 1:40 pm.
  • 149-001 3:45 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:45 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 220-001 3:45 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:45 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 149-002 3:46 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone at Camp David from 3:46 pm to 3:49 pm.

All 36 conversations from October 14, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 366-009, October 14, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/366-009 (accessed October 1, 2026).