Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 369 › Conversation 369-013

Nixon & Colson on Congressional relations and Presidential vetoes

Wednesday, October 18, 1972 · 6:16 PM–6:51 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation369-013 on Tape 369StartWednesday, October 18, 1972 at 6:16 PMEndWednesday, October 18, 1972 at 6:51 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 369-013 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss legislative strategy and political messaging shortly before a meeting with Congressional leaders. Nixon expresses frustration with the current Congress, labeling it irresponsible, and outlines a plan to actively veto pending appropriation bills to demonstrate strength. They further evaluate campaign themes, specifically emphasizing the effectiveness of a firm stance against amnesty as a wedge issue to differentiate Nixon from his political opponents.

Audio

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NARA Description

On October 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:16 pm to 6:51 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 369-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 369-13

Date: October 18, 1972
Time: 6:16 pm - 6:51 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 31-124; four items have been withdrawn]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 2 minutes of this recording (about 23% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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So, so, what have you got to report before I talk to the leaders in a couple of minutes?
The assholes are supposed to call me, but I've been waiting here for an hour.
And now they were supposed to have coffee at 4 o'clock.
And they knocked it off by 30 in the morning.
So they didn't want to have a break or something.
And they didn't serve it anyway.
It's the worst.
It's the most irresponsible Congress to bring it in.
But it isn't particularly mine.
I don't think it's going to be particularly helpful to us.
I will if it will help, but I don't want to mobilize, frankly, Connery's friends.
That's the problem I have.
Well, we're going to do as much as we can, but I won't do it.
I'm going to have to... Yeah, yeah.
I think it's so confusing, though, to the public.
It's not going to get through.
We ought to be able to do a little on our side.
But we'll play along.
We should have the right to make those protections.
Yet I don't want to say they're going to be attached.
That's the line.
That's the line.
That's the line.
That's the line.
That's the line.
That's the line.
That's the line.
Thank you for what I said about the work they had done.
You know, we had an interesting thing on that with John Hurt when he was talking about that.
and yesterday was the event that John Conlon and all of these have had to play with.
And one of the messages he raised was one about the earth, which, of course, Don has been telling us, but he doesn't mean this for himself.
I mean, it's a part of the economy.
And what I said was very good.
It was important.
And of course, Holland, of course, you know, he was very lucky.
Erwin had a very good view.
He had a very good view of this.
And not that he suffered, but his people are.
And also, for Christ's sake, the best thing that happened was what he said about amnesty.
And what he said about, we're not going to leave a few of us to the mercy of our enemies.
And that amnesty line, believe me, we just don't realize how powerful that is.
Our surrogates aren't missing out on that, are they?
Are they?
Okay.
But the way I use it on that thing, that really puts that place apart.
And many really get the point of it.
Doug, politically, is one of the smartest fellows in this country.
Oh, I know.
Oh, I think he's great.
They tell you the Monday night, you know, even though, so forth.
I'm getting an atmosphere of that.
I'm getting a bit of a feel that he's the person to where I don't know anybody.
So those facts make the difference between me and the governor, without ever mentioning the governor.
Don't you agree?
Revenue sharing.
We're going to do that.
Everybody thinks that's great.
I don't know.
I think it's just fine, and it'll be a nice little picture show, but nobody gives a goddamn about it.
You'll follow up, if you will, on the tax thing.
And I, as I said, I'm going to take the amendment and Schultz and Wagner and what they can't say prior to going into up-directed.
And then we'll weed that story out.
I'm going to take all the bills.
I'm going to veto bills all next week.
I'm going to veto the AGW appropriation.
And...
Right.
Right.
Well, I know about all that argument.
Well, any of that.
Well, they should, but...
of a miserable congress.
I'm glad I don't have them call me that.
Well, they're rather nice, but good in a personal sense.
But, God, they haven't stood up for the country.
Well, sure, sure.
Well, they don't think what they don't like, and, you know, what to say.
Bye.

Also recorded on October 18, 1972

  • 031-122 5:43 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 5:43 pm to 5:45 pm.
  • 031-123 5:45 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 6:16 pm.
  • 369-012 5:45 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 6:16 pm.
  • 804-003 5:45 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:45 pm and 5:50 pm.
  • 369-010 5:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 6:14 pm.
  • 369-011 5:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Dr. W. Kenneth Riland met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 6:16 pm.
  • 804-004 5:50 PM · 1 min — United States Secret Service agents and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:50 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 031-124 6:16 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 6:16 pm to 6:51 pm.

All 76 conversations from October 18, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 369-013, October 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/369-013 (accessed November 2, 2026).