Conversation 394-007

TapeTape 394StartFriday, January 5, 1973 at 12:36 PMEndFriday, January 5, 1973 at 1:02 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  White House operator;  Bull, Stephen B.;  Timmons, William E.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On January 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, Stephen B. Bull, and William E. Timmons met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 1:02 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 394-007 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 394-7

Date: January 5, 1973
Time: Unknown between 12:36 pm and 1:02 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

       Telephone call
            -Ronald L. Ziegler’s schedule
                  -Press conference
                                            -11-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Sept.-08)

                                                             Conversation No. 394-7 (cont’d)

The President talked with Stephen B. Bull between 12:37 pm and 12:38 pm.

[Conversation No. 394-7A]

[See Conversation No. 35-95]

       Congressional relations
            -Colson's recent conversations with William E. Timmons
                  -Tone
                  -The President’s bipartisan leadership meeting
                        -George H. Mahon
                        -Standing ovation
                        -Democrats, Republicans
                        -Hugh Scott
                        -Gerald R. Ford
                  -Henry A. Kissinger’s meeting with Scott and Ford
                        -Kissinger meeting with Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
           -Timmon’s schedule
                  -[Freshmen Congressmen and bipartisan leadership reception]

Colson take with the White House operator at an unknown time between 12:38 pm and 1:02 pm.

[See Conversation No. 35-96]

Colson talked with Timmons at an unknown time between 12:38 pm and 1:02 pm.

[See Conversation No. 35-96]

       Congressional relations
            -Mansfield
                  -Possibility of leaks
            -Timmons’s schedule
                  -Meeting with Scott, Ford
            -Timmons
                  -Personality
                         -Enthusiasm
                               -Overstatements
            -Ronald L. Ziegler
            -Scott, Ford
                                      -12-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Sept.-08)

                                                        Conversation No. 394-7 (cont’d)

Unemployment
    -Statistics
           -Lack of change
           -Herbert Stein’s view
                -Revisions
                -January 1973, December, November, October 1972

Stock market
     -Status
     -Press relations
           -Associated Press [AP]
           -Washington Star
           -AP
           -Wire service reports
                  -Wall Street

Roberto Clemente fund
     -Daniel M. Galbreath’s statement
           -The President’s meeting with Galbreath, Dave Giusti [and Steve Blass]
                -“Sports city”
           -The President’s message and contribution

Press relations
      -The President’s schedule
             -January 1, 1973
                   -Roger H. Mudd
                   -Frank Cormier’s AP article
                         -Timing
                         -Oval Office
                               -[Lock on door]
                         -New York Daily News
      -Second term reorganization
             -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                   -Swearing in as Army Vice Chief of Staff
                   -Distinguished Service Medal
                         -The President’s presentation
                               -Washington Star
                               -AP
      -Harry S. Truman’s memorial service
                                    -13-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              (rev. Sept.-08)

                                                     Conversation No. 394-7 (cont’d)

          -The President’s attendance
               -Mary McGrory
               -The President’s telephone call to Lyndon B. Johnson
               -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -Public relations
                     -Independence, Missouri
                     -John A. Scali
               -Funeral
               -Television [TV]
                     -Middle America
                            -Archie Bunker
                            -Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
     -Edward M. Kennedy
          -Washingtonian magazine article
               -Liberal orientation
                     -New Yorker
               -[Nancy Clinch]
                     -Background
                            -Psychology
               -Kennedy Family
                     -Presidency
                            -Assassination fears
                            -Expectations
               -Harvard University
               -Rugby match, 1954
               -Women
               -Drinking
               -Driving
               -Chappaquiddick
               -Colson’s conversation with the President
                     -Agnew
               -Amanda Burden

Watergate
     -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, Colson
     -Cover-up
           -Possible revelation
     -Knowledge
           -Ronald L. Ziegler’s possible statement
                 -John N. Mitchell
                                     -14-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Sept.-08)

                                                       Conversation No. 394-7 (cont’d)

                      -Order
                -Jeb Stuart Magruder
           -Hearsay
           -Magruder
                -Work with Colson
                -Haldeman
                      -Role
                            -Approval
                                  -Hearsay
                -Decisions
           -Decisions
                -Mitchell
                      -Indirect approval
                      -Loss of memory
                      -Colson’s view
                            -Personality
                      -February – April 1972
                      -Preoccupation
                      -Richard G. Kleindienst
                      -Lack of fears
                      -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT]
                            -The President’s trip to the People’s Republic of China
                             [PRC]
                      -The President’s May 8, 1972 decision
                      -1972 election

Congressional relations
     -Tone
           -White House Staff
                 -The President’s meeting with Haldeman
                        -The President’s previous crises
                 -Ehrlichman
           -Meeting with Congressional leaders
                 -The President’s role compared to White House Staff role
                        -Ehrlichman, Haldeman, Clarke MaGregor, Colson

The President’s schedule
     -Meeting with President of Israel [S. Zalman Shazar]
     -Freshman Congressman reception
           -Handshaking
                                              -15-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. Sept.-08)

                                                                Conversation No. 394-7 (cont’d)

                          -Camp David

       Congressional relations
            -Vietnam negotiations
                  -The President’s meeting with Haldeman and Henry A. Kissinger
                        -Treason charge
                        -Colson
                        -US bombing of North Vietnam
                        -Kissinger’s return to Paris
                  -The President’s bipartisan leadership meeting
                        -Instructions for Scali
                               -Transcript
                               -Ziegler’s press conference
                               -US bombing of North Vietnam
                               -White House
                               -Chronology

       Press relations
             -Scali
                    -Meeting with the President
                    -White House
                    -The President’s bipartisan leadership meeting
                         -The President’s remarks

Colson left at 1:02 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
And Bill said that he was going to pass away from some friend of his friend.
So I'm worried that he's going to sit me down and say anything.
I said, no, that's not true at all.
I mean, my reaction was the other way around.
But you said you were going to tell him.
He did tell me that he was going to pass away from some friend of his friend.
I told him.
I told him that he was going to pass away from some friend of his friend.
I told him that he was going to pass away from some friend.
This is the difficulty.
Should also be present.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, no, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't break it down, but, uh, you know, the president was trying to avoid it, you know, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh,
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think Lisa gets reported killed in just one victim, but it was first time.
What you're really saying is, you know, what's the point of success of a job, right?
because they're investing into a very nice, supposed to be a good place.
And there's nothing about that life going on.
There's a lot there.
It's all just a lot of work.
But if you've got a lot of money in there, you can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
What mark, what mark did anyone have?
I wouldn't press it.
It's not successful, but it is what it is, Mark.
You have to be out of line.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
But, you know, the rest of us have to do online.
We've got to come up with a way.
So, I'm not going to interrupt you.
I'm going to take care of this today.
I'm going to take care of this.
I'm going to take care of this.
I'm going to take care of this.
There wasn't a lot of people.
There was a lot of people that was traveling through the states.
There wasn't a lot of people that was traveling through the states.
There wasn't a lot of people that was traveling through the states.
There was a lot of people that was traveling through the states.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We're going to force it away and go for it.
We're going to force it away.
We're going to force it away.
We're going to force it away.
We're going to force it away.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think that's the best of the best.
I think that's the best of the best.
I think that's the best of the best.
We had to go to the point where we had to go to the point where we had to go to the point where we had to go to the point where we had to go to the point where we had to go to the point
I don't know if you can hear me or not, but that's what I think.
I don't know if you can hear me or not.
.
.
.
.
.
.
But the brand is a very good story.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
This is where we're going to be.
This is where we're going to be.
This is where we're going to be.
This is where we're going to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
First of all, as a coach, I just want to say that I was blessed to be able to go through that.
I was blessed to be able to go through that.
I was blessed to be able to go through that.
I was blessed to be able to go through that.
I was blessed to be able to go through that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
in the middle of the city.
I saw him in the middle of the city.
I saw him in the middle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it was fucked her up, and she's not happy with everything.
Psychologically, I'm pointing to the fact that it's kind of scary.
I mean, the boy on the left side would never find a point to look at.
I mean, why is it he can't look at her?
I mean, it's not so bad.
I mean, it's not so bad.
I mean, it's not so bad.
But then he says to me, the airport is dead.
They put him on the other flight.
And he could also have said, well, I'm going to go see my last son.
I'm going to go see my last son.
I'm going to go see my last son.
I'm going to go see my last son.
I'm going to go see my last son.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm pushing for it.
I'm pushing.
I'm pushing.
I'm pushing.
I'm pushing.
Well, I know it's hard, but both of them are good.
So, the chance that this one's going to work for me, I'm going to have to wait and see.
This day long, I don't know how long it's going to take.
And it's like most of the time, it's not a joke.
It's a fact.
It's just a matter of cost.
So, you're a good one.
What would you say?
I'm not sure if you want me to say a little bit to it, but I bet you would.
Definitely.
I'm not sure if you'd feel it.
Good.
All right.
Good.
The air is safe.
The air is safe.
The air is safe.
That was a good, amazing question.
Good.
Good.
Remember, that's what you do.
You have to think about it.
And you have to change it.
Because everybody's going to go to bed, and they're going to go to their homes, and I'm sure it's not safe for them to go to their homes.
And that's the way you're going to do it.
But these guys, let's use them.
So, all of you, thank you for that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but it's really good.
So, you know, I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but it doesn't make great sense.
I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but it's a good thing.
So, I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but it's really good.
So, I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but it's really good.
Thank you.
They haven't done a job like this in the past.
They've hired, you know, this guy, this guy, this guy.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Well, I was going to make that as a present, but I was sure that it didn't take too long.
And, uh, it doesn't matter what they were doing.
It's just going to get to the point where we're here.
But, uh, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, again, if I elected, that's the problem.
So, if you get rid of it, it's, uh, it's one of those things.
So, now I'm going to take it from here.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
strong strong strong strong strong
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can stand up there, and you're just going to say, I'm just going to bring them up and say this.
You're going to hold them.
I'm bringing them up right here.
I said, how do you believe me?
When you're looking right at them, you're going to say, I'm just going to bring them up.
I'm going to waste the time today.
Five people.
I'm calling right now.
Yeah, that's it.
Push it in.
Okay.
Off we go.
See?
That's what happens tonight.
Well, that's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
... ... ... ... ...
Yeah, and all of them said yes.
And I said, all right.
So, you know, I guess I mean, the main thing you should watch for is to stay on faith.
And to just stay on faith.
And let it serve you.
Okay.
So, okay, I know that said yes.
So, that's why I came here today to say something.
He said, you know, back before.
And I said, let's see.
Again, that was a little bit of a panic.
And we don't want to, right now, we don't think personally that we can.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
I also got it.
Yep.
I didn't get a transcript of whatever I said this morning.
I didn't get the signal.
I just wanted to get that out.
And there it is.
I got it.
That's the case.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
You know, I was kind of sitting and looking at it.
I was like, what are you looking at?
I was sitting and thinking, yeah, I got it.
Yeah, I did.
Great.
I must say.
So, the groundwork kind of led me forward, you know, and I was looking at this, and I said to myself, you know, I'm a single person.
I'm a single person.
I'm a single person.
I'm a single person.
Okay.
Okay.