Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 411 › Conversation 411-019

Nixon & Baker on Watergate scandal and Senate hearings

Thursday, February 22, 1973 · 4:04 PM–4:54 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Baker, Howard H., Jr.; [Unknown person(s)]Conversation411-019 on Tape 411StartThursday, February 22, 1973 at 4:04 PMEndThursday, February 22, 1973 at 4:54 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 411-019 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417187167 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Senator Howard H. Baker, Jr. to discuss the ongoing Senate Watergate hearings and the importance of managing the political fallout. The two reviewed strategies for navigating the committee's inquiries, with Nixon emphasizing the need to avoid negative public commentary and prevent a broader scandal. They explored tactics to shift the narrative and ensure the administration maintains a controlled response to the investigators' requests.

Audio

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NARA Description

On February 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Howard H. Baker, Jr., and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:04 pm and 4:54 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 411-019 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 411-19

Date: February 22, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:04 pm and 4:54 pm
                                              -37-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 411-19 (cont’d)

Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Howard H. Baker, Jr.

      President’s Executive Office Building [EOB] office
             -President’s birthday gift
                    -Robert H. Abplanalp
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:04 pm.

       Refreshments

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:54 pm.

       Watergate
             -Samuel J. Ervin, Jr. Committee
                   -Hearings
                           -Baker’s role
                                    -Meeting with President
                                           -William E. Timmons
                                           -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                           -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
                           -Television [TV]
                           -Investigation
                                    -John N. Mitchell
                           -Influence
                           -Donald H. Segretti
                           -Convictions
                           -Segretti
                           -Kennedy
                           -Wallace H. Johnson
                           -Samuel Dash
                                    -Kleindienst
                           -Fred Thompson
                           -New York Times
                           -Kleindienst

Show the rest of the log (28 more lines)

                           -Influence
                                            -38-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                               Conversation No. 411-19 (cont’d)

                             -Mitchell
                                     -Martha Mitchell
                             -Joseph A. Califano
                             -President
                                     -Herbert W. Kalmbach
                             -L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III
                             -John W. Dean, III
                                     -Investigation
                             -Mitchell
                             -Kleindienst
                             -President’s statement
                             -Influence
                             -Cover-up

       Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins

An unknown woman entered and the President and Baker left at an unknown time after 4:04 pm.

       Frustration [?]

The recording was cut off at an unknown time before 4:54 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 30% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

What a great place.

I have all the cars.

I used to do it.

I learned to do it when I was vice president.

See if the senator would like the coffee tea or ice tea.

Okay.

It's a little time to do it.

Yeah.

Well, tell me about your, basically, your hearing.

I have a very interesting hearing.

The three, all are lawyers, is that right?

Nobody else on the hearing said no to us.

That's a good idea.

That's a good problem for us.

The same response to a professor saying that I would not want to talk to you guys.

That's important to me.

What I would hope, though, is that some of them would be there to pull them together.

So,

There may be, there may be a man here, a woman there, and this is for them to say, well, now, totally.

I have, let me say, as far as anybody, let me tell you what I have in mind.

I think your idea of getting to

I would hope that you would pretty well go ahead and do other things.

There are lots of things I would like to do.

And I think it depends upon us letting the Watergate not say we're coming.

Say you're one, too.

That's another way to do it.

That's right.

If he can get the...

Well, if we can work out something that will satisfy him in terms of the... Like I said, let me just see if... We're getting a very bad rap, but you know that Kennedy... You understand, I believe, that it would be a case for... Yeah, well... Today...

young 30-year-old.

Who is that, sir?

Who is Dagg?

Dagg is one of the big findings, uh, classmates of hers.

Uh, yeah, great.

Yes, sir.

We don't want to have the beginning, sir, but if Dagg gets all three parts, then we've got to go in there and just tell the members all

... ... ... ... ... ... ...

We'll be right back.

I had already...

That's my idea.

That's why I...

I don't know.

Let me ask you.

There's the other thing.

In the meantime, I know you do a good job.

You're exactly right.

The main thing is to have no bad comment.

That's the worst thing.

more of the substance of this is the apparent answer.

So no cover-up.

But also, if it does get rough, then I think you may have to, at a certain time, turn and say, now let's get away from it.

You're going to get to this certain thing.

We have to keep that out of shape, right?

All right, well, we'll stop.

I think that's a great job.

Thank you.

Also recorded on February 22, 1973

043-171 2:47 PM · 12 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 3:16 pm.
043-172 2:47 PM · 29 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), and William E. Timmons talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 3:16 pm.
043-173 2:47 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 3:16 pm.
043-174 3:16 PM · 47 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 3:16 pm to 3:17 pm.
043-175 3:17 PM · 9 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:17 pm and 4:04 pm.
043-176 3:17 PM · 2 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and William E. Timmons talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:17 pm and 4:04 pm.
043-177 3:17 PM · 2 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and John W. Dean, III talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:17 pm and 4:04 pm.
043-178 3:17 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:17 pm and 7:24 pm.

All 51 conversations from February 22, 1973 →

Nixon phone call with Colson on Watergate and Congressional relations March 16, 1973 · 19 min
Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT case and Vietnam War April 18, 1972 · 20 min
Nixon & Colson on ITT and Vietnam War April 18, 1972 · 7 min
Nixon, Dean & Sanchez on Senate hearings and Patrick Gray March 20, 1973 · 14 min
Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Watergate scandal April 14, 1973 · 14 min
Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Watergate and Executive privilege May 13, 1973 · 18 min

Cite this conversation

Conversation 411-019, February 22, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417187167). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/411-019 (accessed November 15, 2026).