Conversation 425-045

TapeTape 425StartMonday, April 9, 1973 at 6:34 PMEndMonday, April 9, 1973 at 7:47 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On April 9, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:34 pm to 7:47 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 425-045 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 425-45

Date: April 9, 1973
Time: 6:43 pm - 7:47 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

       Foreign policy
             -Vietnam
                   -US pressure
             -Prisoners of War [POWs]
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      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                               Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

      -President's meeting with John B. Flynn
-US Status
      -US public
-Communists
      -Strength
             -Military
             -Economy
      -Belief
      -President's meetings with [James B. Stockdale] and Flynn
      -Aid
      -Soviet Union
      -War-making ability
-Cambodia
      -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s cable
             -Blockade
             -US bombing
                   -Demoralizing effect
-President's Conversation with Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
      - People's Republic of China [PRC]
             -Kissinger’s telephone call
      -Meeting on trade
             -Soviet Jewry
             -President’s statement
                   -Direct communication with Soviet Union
                         -Ambassador [?]
      -Jacob K. Javits, Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson, Abraham A. Ribicoff
-President's schedule
      -Meeting with Congressional and Jewish leaders
-Cambodia
      -Strategy for democracy
      -Effect on US
             -Compared with a democratic Vietnam
      -Supply lines
             -Ho Chi Minh Trail
      -Numbers of Khmer Rouge
             -Special assessment
                   -Haig
             -Impact on Laos and Thailand
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                             Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

           -Laos
                   -Situation
                   -Observance of agreement
                         -Withdrawal
                         -Re-training forces
                         -Bombing strategy
                               -North
                               -Lyndon B. Johnson [?] position
                               -US public opinion
                               -President’s opinion
                               -Ho Chi Minh Trail
                               -Major provocation
                               -Flights

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration: 38s]

      AIR OPERATIONS

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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           -Bombing
               -Metropolitan areas
               -Hiroshima [?]
               -US press reaction
               -Potential Effects
                     -Criticism of President
                            -Carpet bomber

      US war policy
          -Preparedness
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                         Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

             -Communism containment
             -Johnson's bombing halt in 1968
                   -Effect
             -Laos
                   -Troop numbers
             -B-52s bombing
                   -Melvin R. Laird
             -B-52s
                   -Indo-China
                   -Laird

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security]
[Duration: 6s]

     B-52s

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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                 -President's summit meeting with USSR, 1972
                       -President’s orders
                 -Flights over North Vietnam
                       -Possible aircraft loss
                       -B-52 target
                 -Effects in Laos
                 -Cambodia
                       -Increase B-52 bombings
             -Bombing
                 -President’s resolve
                       -Press reaction
                 -Ho Chi Minh Trail
                 -Capability of South Vietnam
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           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

               Laird
          -Ground support planes
               -Jets
               -Reports

White House personnel
     -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.'s recommendations
           -Emory C. Swank
           -Leonard Unger
     -Henry A. Byroade
           -Thailand
     -Unger
     -Pakistan
           -Robert C. Hill
           -Elliot L. Richardson
           -[unintelligible name]
           -Inside man
           -Kissinger’s conversation with Hill
           -POW
     -Cambodia
           -Charles S. Whitehouse
                 -Laos
           -Samuel D. Berger?
           -Swank
           -Adm. John S. McCain, Jr.’s recommendation
                 -Gen. Richard G. Stilwell
                        -Thailand
                        -President’s reaction
                        -Sophistication
           -Swank
     -Unger, Swank

Cambodia
    -Pace
    -Weather

Vietnam Cease-fire Agreement
     -Economic Aid
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                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                           (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                               Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

                 -Economic Commission's Recommendation
                      Published letter from White House
                 -North Vietnamese Expectations
                 -Canadian membership in International Commission of Control and Supervision
[ICCS]
                      -Influence on Military Situation
                      -Hungary
                      -Poland
                      -Replacement of Canada
                            -Norway
                            -Brazil
                            -Tunisia
                            -Strength of left wing parties

         Henry Kissinger's lunch with Armand de Borchegrave
              -Support for President
              -Anwar el-Sadat
              -Foreign policy views
                    -Strong Europe

         Egypt
                 -Negotiations
                       -Kissinger’s vacation
                       -Possible settlement
                 -Problem
                       -Soviet Union
                 -Alternatives
                       -Middle East confrontation
                 -Possible war
                       -Oil crisis
                              -Impact on oil pipeline
                 -Possible agreement with US
                       -Same agreement with Egypt and Soviet Union
                       -Interim agreement
                       -Prospect for direct talks
                       -Diffusion of situation
                 -Answer to Egypt
                       -Timing
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            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

           -Avoidance of oil crisis
           -Promise of additional meeting

President's meeting with Joseph J. Sisco
      -Sisco's career
            -Moscow
            -President's schedule
                   -Meeting with Sisco and Kissinger
            -Message from Sadat
            -Ambassadorship to Soviet Union
                   -Credit
                   -Open post [?]

Treaty for the Prevention of Nuclear War
      -Europe’s reaction
            -Great Britain
            -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
            -Kissinger’s maneuvering
      -Timing of Summit
      -Kissinger's conversation with Anatoly F. Dobrynin
      -Trade legislation
            -Priority
      -Agreements
            -Vietnam
            -Strategic Arms Limitations Treaty [SALT]
            -Nuclear agreement [?]

PRC
      -Chou En-Lai
           -Visit to US [?]
           -Advance team arrival
      -Mansfield's trip to PRC
           -President's meeting with Mansfield
           -Support for administration’s policies
                  -Responsibility for aid
                  -Hostility
                  -Norodom Sihanouk
                         -Kissinger’s reaction
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           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                      Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

                 -Bipartisan Delegation
                       -Political strategy
                              -Delegation compared to individual leader
                       -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                       -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                       -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                       -Ronald W. Reagan

Vietnam settlement
     -History of President's policy
           -Troop withdrawal
           -Cambodia
           -Laos
           -President’s prediction
           -Election
     -Cambodia
     -Possible fate
           -South Vietnam
     -Vietnamization
     Withdrawal of US troops
     -B-52s in Laos in 1970
           -National Security Council [NSC] meetings
           -Targets
           -Strike delivery
           -Characteristics of US bombers, fighter-bombers
                 -Compared to B-17s, B-19s
                 -Design for nuclear bomb
                 -Tactical support
                        -Weather restrictions
     -Unknown man
           -Commander-in-Chief, Pacific [CINPAC]
           -Opposition to bombing in Cambodia
           -Withdrawal of US troops in Thailand
           -Parochialism [?]
           -Robert S. McNamara
           -Laird
                 -Promise of job
           -Richardson
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           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                    Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

           -William P. Clements, Jr.

President's role in history
      -Lonely battle
             -Character of US
      -Allies
      -Vindication
      -Content of possible speeches by President
             -Television [TV]
      -Turning point
      -Maintenance of patriotism
      -President's critics
             -Compared to US opponents to US membership in League of Nations
             -Foreign policy
             -Questioning of President’s authority
             -Challenge
                   -President’s electoral victory margin
                   -Alger Hiss case
                   -Intellectual opposition
             -Wants
                   -Communist world
                   -Unilateral disarmament
             -Feelings toward President and "Middle America"
                   -Dislike, lack of trust, uncomfortableness
             -Eastern liberal Establishment
             -President
                   -Football
                   -Compared to John F. Kennedy
                          -Thoughtfulness
             -Domestic program
                   -New Deal
                   -Spending
                   -Turmoil
             -Compared to President
                   -Relations with PRC, USSR
                   -Vietnam settlement
             -Undermining authority
                   -Watergate
                                    -41-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

                -Vietnam settlement
                -Nguyen Van Thieu
           -Democrats
                -Southern compared with liberal
                -John C. Stennis
                -James E. (“Jimmy”) Carter
                -Gale W. McGee [?]
                -Jackson
           -Republicans

Watergate
     -Charles H. Percy
           -Attack on H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                  -Knowledge
                  -Lack of evidence
     -Haldeman's conversation with Kissinger
           -Meeting with Cabinet and White House Staff
     -Haldeman
           -Possible testimony before Ervin Committee
           -White House Staff testimony
           -Possible departure
                  -Percy and Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
                  -Position of staff
           -Donald H. Segretti
           -Intelligence operations
           -Segretti
                  -Dwight L. Chapin
           -Percy
                  -Statement
           -Compared to Sherman Adams
     -Percy
     -John D. Ehrlichman
           -Possible briefing
           -Possible testimony before Ervin Committee
     -John N. Mitchell
           -Involvement
           -Jeb Stuart Magruder
           -Martha B. Mitchell
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      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                          (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

      -Possible statement
-Magruder
      -Haldeman's involvement
      -Supervision by Mitchell
            -Knowledge
-Security operation for the Committee to Re-elect the President
      -Bugging
            -By Democrats
            -Prevalence
            -Nelson A. Rockefeller
            -Al Marshall's conversation with Kissinger
-Magruder
      -Haldeman's responsibility
            -Compared with Kissinger's responsibility for Morton H. Halperin
                   -Daniel Ellsberg
-Halperin
-Haldeman
      -Magruder
      -Mitchell
            -Bugging of Democratic National Committee [DNC]
      -Placement of Magruder
      -President's belief
      -Decision
      -President's opponents
      -Reputation
-Mitchell
      -Possible statement
-Haldeman
-Effects on presidency
-Mitchell
-Legal advice
      -Richard G. Kleindienst
      -Ehrlichman
-L. Patrick Gray, III
      -Raw Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] files
      -John W. Dean, III
            -Investigation
-Dean's presence during interview of accused persons
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            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

           -Purpose

White House personnel
     -Support for President's policies
          -Kissinger
          -Charles W. Colson
                 -Doctrinaire tendencies
          -Haldeman
                 -Loyalty
                 -Handling of job

Watergate
     -Senate investigation
          -Ervin Committee
          -Blair House meeting

President's accomplishment
      -1972 election
      -Foreign policy
             -Vietnam
             -PRC
             -USSR
             -Europe
             -Japan
             -Middle East
             -Cuba
      -Domestic policy
             -Riots
             -Crime
             -Budget
             -Boom economy
                   -Fluctuations in free economy
      -Watergate
             -Compared with Laos
             -PRC announcement
      -Timing
      -Difficulty in taking offensive
      -Public conscience
                                            -44-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Sep.-2010)
                                                          Conversation No. 425-45 (cont’d)

       Kissinger’s plan
             -Cambodia
             -ICCS

Kissinger left at 7:47 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

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They're great people.
They're great people.
Well, you know, I keep preaching this all the time.
We're all the same.
I wonder if the nation will survive.
I wonder if the world will survive.
I mean, what concerns me is not their color.
They believe.
They believe.
That's what we need.
And they believe intelligently.
That's what they call it.
But they believe, and they have, they have, they have time.
They're purposeful.
Both of these bubbles repeated again, and the Russians, I said, what the hell do you think they're doing now?
They say, well, they heal, they breathe.
They want a different way.
But it's hard to turn around.
I think that is .
But we've got to watch this.
You know, I mean, I throw this in.
He says, I've been in the bottom of a well for seven and a half years.
Maybe I don't .
Well, I think the only thing these guys know how to do is .
That's right.
And that's always the easy thing for them to do.
Now, they send a cable today saying
Uh, the military situation in Cambodia is improving.
They broke the blockade.
Volunteer routes have now opened, and that he thinks it's entirely unbinding.
Demoralizing them, and under no circumstances should be... Should be stopped unbinding.
Wrong.
It's a downer.
I told me in school that there was only prevention.
There was work, but...
I'm going to see them either next day or Monday.
Monday is the day.
The second thing we'll see is January.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I mean, it's a social jury thing tomorrow.
Great.
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Great soldier's jewelry shop.
I just want to say that I'm working on it now.
You can say that I have a direct touch with the soldiers.
I believe you.
You can say that I have a direct touch with the soldiers.
I believe you.
Well, we didn't have the Jewish soldiers.
I think there was a suggestion on that.
I told him.
I told him it was fighting .
So he suggested the invasion of Chavis.
And Chavis said, we're going to try.
We were able to do that by the end of this week.
I want you to get a strategy.
but my point is we can survive we cannot survive
The worst aspect, I looked into it, of the Cambodia going is not the supplies because that's now the end of the farming.
They can go down the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the other Ho Chi Minh, it's not that important.
The major problem is that they have about 40,000 Maya Rouge that could then divulge maybe into the Delta.
But I have asked Hague to make a special assessment of it and also the impact it would have on Laos and Thailand.
What is the situation in Laos now?
The situation in Laos, again, from the reports, I can see their name is very calm.
Laos remains calm, and the central officials are not keeping their agreement.
They're not at all.
They have a political settlement.
They're not withdrawing.
And, of course, in the process that comes up today, they have re-equipped their forces
And we drank it, but the ocean army has done very little.
And if the fighting started again, the ocean army would take advantage of it.
We're just not in a strong position to defend ourselves.
Very tough.
We've got them by the balls.
If we had a credible strategy for bombing...
In the north?
In the north.
I mean, if you were in the position of chance...
Chance?
This agreement is a good agreement.
We could make it work beautifully.
But it needs a step.
It needs a step.
If we could lay in one or two ranks on the north side...
I have a few questions.
They basically did this to me.
Right.
They found a host.
They picked me up.
They picked me up.
You know what I mean?
From the standpoint of even American public opinion.
They say the war is starting up again.
We can lay in the rigs, in my opinion.
We can lay it in on Ho Chi Minh, pretty much.
No problem with that.
That doesn't make much difference.
But the point is, I think we could lay it in if there is a major provocation, and there is not, which the South is not very good at handling.
But there has to be a major provocation.
What we might do is to start this to fly.
The real thing.
The real thing.
That executive is very knowledgeable in what they have done properly in this city.
They can't realize how corrupt and how crazy the economy is.
But they are all connected to the same table.
And they have mom and kids with them.
And not too much noise.
It's scary.
And I think they thought they were going to be modest.
I mean, those people are going to be mothers to them.
They thought we were going to step on their desk and out of the thing real quick.
We hear our enemies in the personal system.
Realized they were calling me a madman, and I had a carpet bomb in there.
I said, of course we weren't.
But they brought up my name.
And we hadn't had to stop.
All the signs were out there.
They were just totally undead people at that point.
But we had no choice.
We had to do more than anything.
They came back and said they were tough.
I guess we could have knocked the 48 more hours that way.
We stayed up after a whole satay of television that would have been vicious.
We were one jump ahead of the sheriff all the way through this war.
That's right.
We have nothing to do with other things.
Except not one.
They think we want these guys.
But what could we have done?
No, they do.
They say, and they talk to them.
They say, we won the war.
We prevented the continent from taking over.
That's all they have to do.
What more could we do?
The only thing we didn't do well
And that was not our circumstances.
Although that was better than nothing.
It was better than nothing.
But if we had known what we now know, what we know now, you would have ordered more B-52s out then.
If we had put in more, you didn't realize that in the past, we had only 36 B-52s for all of Indochina.
We had to remember how we got to this whole thing.
We had to remember that when we talked about .
And I said, how many we got out there?
And they said, we got 60.
Well, we didn't get .
They aren't .
So I said, well, .
I asked, where are we?
How many we got nowhere?
All right.
Yeah, they're down here.
Remember?
And we just cut them down.
Before the summit, Mr. President, in Russia, you ordered... At that time, they had given us 20 more, but we were up to 80.
Then they gave us 10 more, but we were up to 90.
You ordered to get everything that could be parked out there out there, and then we got about 180.
That was before this time.
Before this time.
And they're never using it.
Oh no, we do 110 stories a day.
Yeah, but not over an hour.
Not over an hour.
That's the point.
The fact that they would not fly more than an hour a day, that was the reason.
We might lose one.
We might lose one.
It interferes with tactical air.
There are no targets, if you're telling me.
There are no good B-52 targets.
In fact, that's what they told us when we started to get lousy.
We saved lousy.
We saved lousy people.
I don't think they got any targets there either.
They hammered the shit out of our house.
I want to step up the number of people who lose and can't believe it.
We're going to get blamed for it anyway.
That don't announce it.
They don't put up a number if you can't do it.
That's what it has to do.
If it wants.
If it wants.
I'm sure it will.
I don't know where the United States comes out of.
We have to see this.
Every year we've lost capital.
The press now has a vested interest in creating a crisis.
I think that the other side, looking at you, has to be very careful that you might mean what you're saying.
and you're certainly not taking assault into account.
When the assault has got some air capability, well, if another criminal has any capabilities, if they have any capabilities, I'm not denying, but you should have given them longer than I can count.
Combination of lead and booze will enable a disaster.
What else is going to happen?
Tricerate board.
Tactical air defense.
Tactical air defense.
Tactical air defense.
We don't have any good ground support planes, do you?
Well, they've given them some.
They are good.
We don't use them much.
Jets?
Well, some are rough.
They've got a good ground.
They don't give them a lot of ground.
It's a better system.
It's just like a plane.
Good.
Maybe it's a little better than the present.
Yeah.
And then our own reports indicate that.
Our own reports indicate that.
Well, I saw the one this morning.
Well, I felt that for years, so why can't we do it now?
Why?
Well, we've never liked that.
Where do you want to send it?
I thought we already had some money for Thailand.
No, I'm sorry.
The other state in Pakistan.
The other state in Pakistan, Richard, is trying to get us to go to Dubai.
That's not going to be successful in the past.
We need him there.
He's going to be on the other side now.
Much better.
You call.
You call.
I have talked to him.
He says no.
Fine.
Well, I prefer that he do that.
But the only trouble is, who knows if he's going to send us back this time.
We'll find some time.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
Send a P.O.W.
But I left it up to him.
I told him to think about it a little bit more.
Good point, I'm glad.
So who the hell are you going to send in there to, uh... Campo?
The White House is going to go?
The White House is going up the line.
Well, we could send Berger to Campo, too.
He's strong, huh?
Yeah, he's a pretty tough guy.
He's a really bad cop.
Play all the time, you know.
What's the problem?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yes.
Well, it's desperate for me not to die.
I need to recommend some kind of a little bit of a hell I'd take in on that.
I like still life.
He's a gutsy guy.
I have to give him a R. I can assign him to the service.
He's the best place to go to the service.
He's a little nosy.
He's been in Thailand for years.
He's tough.
I know him well.
He'd do what we said.
I like them.
I want to get a guy in there that will play our game.
In other words, sophisticated players.
You need a more sophisticated person.
I like him.
I would find him there.
I still don't know.
He's a more sophisticated kind of a fellow than I think.
He's more of a ground warrior.
I don't think he was bad.
I don't want to be caught with our pants down.
I don't want to be caught with our pants down.
I don't want to be caught with our pants down.
I was going to say, we must anticipate this business with the amount of .
I think you'd better get that over there and recommend that amount.
I hope that's what they'll do.
And then so it will come out that way so they won't publish our letter.
Oh, no, they won't publish our letter if the commission makes the recommendation.
All right.
If the commission makes the recommendation, we don't carry it out to them.
No, but, all right.
See what my point is?
If the commission makes the recommendation, what I do is, all right, we'll say, all right, we will carry this out on the agenda, and then we're going to do something like this.
They think they're going to get the eight and they're going to get, you know, oh, yeah, that's what they do.
Or at least they're going to play it right up to the hill.
I'm not so persuaded, Mr. Benson, that they're going to go all out yet.
But another question we have to address, and I'm going to have to watch out for anything on that, is what do we do when the Canadians pull out of the RCCS?
Now.
Now that you have a country that's been shut down.
CCS.
I mean, it doesn't now stop everything.
I don't exclude that the Hungarians and Poles are going to pull out after all the pressure we've put on them.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
We were thinking of Norway as a part of the country of reserve.
He really is, yeah.
I don't know if you read what he does, but the reason I spoke to him is because he's talking about, he's talking about it with his, uh, law firm.
He's at least on the left, he's on the side of a strong people.
He's got a strong foreign policy.
He's got a strong Europe.
I told you yesterday we had another proposition from the Egyptians for an amoeba problem and he feels very strongly and I had to agree with him on the report.
The one thing that the Egyptians are not thinking is that I am involved in this because they think I am.
They had us all crazy.
My argument, my reason, I have only personally to do what they can do out there.
There's no settlement possible to don't turn the Jewish community against the man who does it.
There's no jury in that.
And that's us.
Because it can only be achieved by who likes the Jewish community.
We have two problems.
One is, at the minimum, to stall the issue through the Russian side.
Both countries will stall the Russians through the side so that there isn't a clash over the Middle East.
unless you are prepared to have an all-out confrontation on the Middle East immediately, which I think would probably not be the best way to proceed.
The second attempt, and he can use the deception talk for that, I say, but then I think we could take a step, but I do not have nothing to discuss until we've found a little creativity.
The second is we have to prevent the Egyptians from doing something insane because they're perfectly capable of starting a war, losing it, getting the oil pipeline, throwing up in the process, getting rid of the oil in the rest of Europe, and then we have an absolutely good climate crisis unless we give this something to hold on to.
And finally, I still think that the procedure we talked about,
can work and be an essential material on some basic principles, very similar to the principles we've already agreed to with the rest.
But then people are used to get a mentoring material, and that's then how direct talks to implement these principles.
Direct talks can take forever, but this will diffuse the situation long enough, and will show some causes, hopefully to this day now.
We have to decide it today or tomorrow.
We have to give an answer to the .
I think we should better .
I don't want without that crisis .
That's a great idea.
I frankly think.
I have to promise them another meeting.
Go ahead.
Good.
Done.
I don't know, I just thought, I just wanted to be sure that Betty would be heard from me rather than the children.
Well, it's a business.
If you could let me make this go into 10 minutes, if we can.
You seem to be candid to want to be doing what I want, to whatever you want.
Because I don't want to work in Asia.
I think Joe, I don't think he's going to work in Asia.
Right at the first time, I didn't really change.
But I said, Joe, apparently you said you studied a group of majors in Russia and so forth.
I think we can get in the line.
But if you would let me drink for 10 minutes, then I'll put in 150.
Any day?
In 15 minutes this week.
Right.
Because he is bringing in Judy Turner.
I mean, and I'll say, Joe, I'm going to play with you.
I need you.
You will do that.
That's what you make my life.
Yeah.
I said, I'll do it.
And I'll say, Joe, I want to play a game here.
I'll come to you.
Let me sit.
I have to sit down.
Oh, much better.
Very good.
Oh, you know, I brought this, but it is for you, Mr. President.
I got this message yesterday.
I want to explore it.
We'll keep him totally in on the deal, but let's play this around and so forth.
I'm just kidding.
I think Joe will play it.
Well, we're in a seat now that nothing works.
We also have to hang on to Russia.
We'll tell him we might get in a crash with this, and if this doesn't work, we'll hang on to Russia.
We'll hang on to Russia.
We'll keep Russia open for a while.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
We'll do that.
Not that alzheimer's meeting, but then every European country runs up the wall.
And we've got to keep the village along with us, so that the village will have fellowship with the neighbors.
So I have to go through a series of generations with them.
I think they have been worried.
I think they have given one of them, one of them is the, I thought it would be a test because we considered it really highly impolite, but it's not.
I can't do it, it's not personal to them.
I can't do it.
I think they're picked up and they're partly the reason, but largely the traders are waiting because they don't want to be here.
But the traders are waiting.
So maybe two steps, the traders are going to be here, the people are going to get on the side.
And then once the floors are going to be blocked, they're waiting.
He's the one that can stop it.
But he did send a categorical message that they were not following the results of activism.
I don't know if that's what you believe.
I don't know.
It could be true.
I don't think they should do that.
I don't think they should do that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We've gone to these cities before, but I think they'll have their dealings.
They'll have their dealings.
They'll have their dealings.
They'll have their dealings.
They'll have their dealings.
That's something that .
Coincidentally, I'm asking you a great deal of time.
Probably because they want a bipartisan group.
So what do you want to do?
What do you want to do?
Do you want to give them a trip or not give them a trip?
Do you want a bipartisan ?
He was a master of astrology, master of something, virtually everything, although he was responsible on eight.
Basically, he was just a, not in a personal sense, but he was just a believer.
He didn't have a lot of it.
I think that is a good thing.
What do you think?
I don't know.
which is to be able to use them as an emissary for children.
Or, secondly, they have to promise that if they keep them away from children, the children are going to be fine.
And if they don't meet children, they're going to be a part of the pain of the next year.
And that's fine.
It's in those ways that we're going to be able to take care of the parents as long as we can.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
But they can go directly there.
It's going to be harder to keep them out.
Three years ago at this time, we were wondering how many troops we could save for love, and we were getting ready to go to Cambodia.
Two years ago, we had just withdrawn from Cambodia to help help from love, and all help was great.
One year ago, and one year ago we were saying that if you had predicted one year ago that there'd be a ceasefire in June, still in August, all American forces out, you would have been accused of the sheerest kind of political propaganda and of playing on the hopes of people for your election.
So the problem we have now is
We get saved.
There are problems, but they're not as difficult as they were in the South, and not as painful.
But the pre-state can't go into the rain.
Then, whatever happens in November is different from what is coming about right after.
We can then save it into this time next year, from this time next year on.
We're on pretty good terms.
Two years from now, everything collapses.
I don't think they're going to collapse.
I'm confident they're going to stop somewhere.
There's something there.
There's a plan.
That's one place where we have a relation.
It wasn't a problem.
Rather, did you consider that?
Yeah.
for four years with big payments.
But we were worried the $25,000 was probably not enough.
The $35,000, there was a god damn big argument about that.
Remember the argument?
That when we raised the $35,000, the next time they practically went up the wall on them.
I swear to God it was unbelievable what we did there.
I remember Mr. President, when he talked about the defense he was in love, which broke the back of every president.
We may have forgotten that, but there was one target.
that they won't hit it with one goddamn T-52 strike.
It's the spring of 1970.
Too bloody anti-semitic before you got to the nation to do it.
We had a meeting in your office, and they were whizzing around for so long that the target disappeared.
The Spartan disappeared.
It was at the edge of the plane, the job on the other side of the plane.
Oh, yeah.
It's harder than mine.
It's not that hard.
Oh, all right.
I take mine to get it to the close track.
Well, they didn't get that target because it flew.
But then, finally, you ordered one strike, and you ordered another strike, and then you just looked at them and kept going.
From then on, all the tactics were defeated by these.
Yeah, the goddamn fighter bombers.
They are made, you know, they're not made for this sort of thing.
Well, I don't know, but that is a drag, Mr. President, because it was designed for nuclear bombs.
I know, I know, but it is, you don't have a B, you don't have a B-17 anymore, or a B-19, that's my point.
No, but the fighter bombers actually were designed for tactical support.
They should be able to do the job, but they don't because of weather restrictions and others.
They do the job on these crates.
They fly them everywhere.
They fly them at low altitude, they fly them at high altitude.
Same one?
Same one.
The only thing they do for it is that it's kind of guided them, you never know, it's guided them.
Think back to the total size of the Apollo ship.
Apollo ship?
Yeah.
We've asked to be with the Department of Defense over here once they put our troops out of Taiwan.
And once you pull, once the crisis is pulled, we'll nail it.
If we get off tonight, we'll need to go on campus.
Why did he send him there?
Why did the President not even get the job?
He could have laid it practically clear.
He had promised it to him.
It's awfully odd for you, Mr. President, too.
Refuse.
You can refuse.
I mean, they want you to write pictures on this.
I don't want anybody, man.
I thought I had Clemens over.
All right.
I already told Clemens.
I've told him to make paper.
I'm trying.
Clemens is a good guy.
Oh, give the witness a warning.
I need a warning.
There isn't going to be any firing around on that.
There is not going to be.
But, uh, you know that the next time I saw him, I'm going to have to stop it.
That's what I told myself.
Why don't we have some allies?
The President's history will vindicate you.
What you might consider doing is to give some
Whenever you've done it, you've had a major impact.
I don't know, maybe it's commencement time.
But then it had to be you who held together
What was left of patriotism in this country was purchased.
But how do you explain that?
This is going to look like a disgraceful period in our country.
Of this, your critics are going to go down as badly as the people who kept it out of the League of Nations.
The people who kept it out of the League were these unrecognizable men who were bothered here from fiction.
Why?
These are bitter littles.
They won't give you the incentives to carry out a foreign policy.
They won't give you the stress to carry out a foreign policy.
And this constant flashing at the authority of the president with his stress.
I don't know.
I have no hatred at all.
I know what they want.
See, I have never had the confidence.
I know that.
I have challenged them to say they don't hate me.
I did not win the election by 61% of the vote against the people.
I haven't.
I wish to see his case.
I mean, it's one thing to oppose
hit another to hit them, to hit them with their gun.
And in this sense, they feel it was you had to be told to hit them.
You can survive maybe, they can't survive you.
What do they want in the world?
They want a communist world.
What do they think we're like?
Pretty.
What's the question?
They don't care.
They don't mind if it's a communist world.
They don't really mind.
They just like this country.
That's what's done.
They don't trust it.
They don't like it.
They're not comfortable in it.
They don't like middle America.
That's what they've got against you.
You have to value your human and human establishment.
You could get away with a lot of what you do.
But that you, the quintessence of middle America, that likes at least half of it, you know, that likes what middle America...
I thought it was okay, but all of a sudden, uh, uh, then, maybe then, maybe now, I'm not going to agree.
It's a little bit easy.
And the president, Mr. President, all of a sudden knows, uh,
The worst thing, Mr. President, is they don't want anything for America, and they want their way.
What is their program?
What is their domestic program?
It's the New Deal, endlessly working, even though this is guaranteed.
to backtrack us, divide us, and lead to social upheaval.
Why is it that you have fires in the country and they, with all their spending, have nothing but romantic turmoil?
There must be something deeply wrong in their philosophy.
Why is it that you have to conquer the Russians and the Chinese and they don't?
Why is it that you ended the war and all they could do is get out after the war?
But precisely because these questions are unanswerable for them.
They are, perhaps precisely because they are unanswerable for them, are they so fed up against you?
If they can't discredit you personally, or undermine your authority, they are indeed troubled.
Now, the Watergate is an act that God sent for them, because with the ending of the war, you could have ridden that for a month.
Sure.
And that's why they warned us, in Vietnam they warned us to do.
They are terrified that this thing is going to work.
If Chu went down the drain next week, it would be the best news for the Democrats.
Of almost all Jewish Christians, ma'am.
I don't think so, ma'am.
The other, except for Stannis, the other, except for the Southern Democrats, McKee, the older Southern Democrats, the older, the new one there, there's Carter from Georgia, these guys are not without it.
McKee, but there's Jackson, there's Jackson, but there is Stannis.
And they're talking in different ways, kind of as if Percy had to go after all the Democrats.
What did he say?
I don't know.
He didn't write the book, as usual.
I read that.
I read that.
Well, he said, if any connection whatsoever can be proved, then all that matters is that there won't be any office.
Well, that's a hell of a lot of things to say.
If any connection can be proved?
Yeah.
Well, that's the point of that.
He could just as well have said it positively.
Until a connection is proved, he should stay in his office.
And he could have said he could go further.
Let's not judge this man.
He's valuable for your review.
I don't know what the facts are.
I mean, I just don't know what the facts are.
They aren't going to have any hard truth.
There will be things that happen.
You know what I mean?
He testified.
Now, Bob told me that he was thinking of explaining his role as a cabinet and why he had said that would be a mistake.
Now, Bob ultimately doesn't explain anything.
I do.
I have my idea, and I've drawn it up.
He's coming down to testify to the Senate on his own.
If he doesn't do it, the White House, the less they have to baffle about, the better off we are.
If they can't stand up to this, let us on.
That's my view.
The White House, they know nothing but what it is.
But they do know that Bob Hogan is an honorable man.
My point is this.
Are you suggesting that because of all this heat, you don't know, there's no fire there, that's how it ought to go?
No.
You see, that's what Percy and the others were saying.
What Percy and White were saying.
Even if he didn't know, he should have known.
Because he should have known how he should have gone.
I agree.
I would hold on to all of them.
And make them .
Because people will respect you for what they did to you.
Unless they get through, that's it.
But if they can't prove anything, I think we're better off going down to the end.
This is why I say I don't know if he fed up.
I haven't seen the evidence.
I haven't seen nothing.
On Watergate, nothing.
On Watergate, certainly nothing.
If you, if you set up these television units, they're not all, they're discredited.
And I know that you've knocked them down.
That is true.
Yeah, it's just good.
So, no, why are you actually...
I, uh, I told him, he's an honorable man, and he must appreciate what he did.
For a person to say that.
And I just went back to the northern deck and called it, and I just went back to the northern deck.
And I thought it was another one of these barges that were supposed to be moving.
We should die.
We should go and tell the police.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
So it's detected with the instructor now.
And that was the reason they were after Madden's career.
In fact, he had the same detectives.
Loyal only to the president.
He was not the answer to the conference.
That's all.
He was there to knock himself out.
One person.
Not Pusey, necessarily.
Pusey, I would say, no.
No, no.
All Pusey was in the position himself.
So they don't have any issue with the...
If you think it's necessary, we really can put a stop to it.
I have a briefing.
I don't hold a control of what this water gate is all about.
I hear it every time I want to touch it, but nobody in my house would call me to hear it again.
So, we have a problem here.
We've never heard of anything like that.
Basically, we have a problem.
It may not have been a specific property.
The problem is that Rachel was the one who was in charge.
The kids were the ones who approved the budget for the general security purposes.
I've got a question.
I've got a question for the House of Rooders.
Rooder is the guy in charge, but Rachel is the one.
That was the guy that really got me concerned about.
He was a great patriot.
He was a strong guy.
That's why he's a hero.
That's why he's a great patriot.
I don't know what's going to happen.
See, Mitchell, instead of coming out and saying, look, I assume responsibility, I would say, I didn't know about this specific thing.
I'd be boring.
But that's it.
That's what it goes.
If Mitchell was just gone, then it wouldn't have happened.
That's the end.
We're not going to leave it.
Because the findings get done and they're not going to be able to share it with the public.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Yeah.
And then the point is who approved.
Agreed.
They put it out and they put it on hold.
But they can't make it on hold.
Agreed.
Yeah.
That's the only promise.
That's, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
Then Mitchell's doing a good job.
What'd you see?
He's never demonstrated a holiday.
There's a holiday that the murderers brought in.
The White House went home.
The White House for a fall.
And eventually the World War came, I think.
But that's all.
But when he was over there, he was on a vacation.
That was all the time.
I'm sure it will hurt.
I'm sure .
They're going to send it without a consent.
So the Rockefeller, uh, uh, Elmar, for one, said to me that if we move it up, that if thousands of people come to Rockefeller, it's fucking regular.
And that wasn't really an easy time for you to go by.
You want to drown yourself because the river is the hardest map and the hardest river and how are you supposed to go across the line?
You're supposed to go to the other side of the river and that goes to death.
And you know what I mean?
That's how you're supposed to die.
You're all over it.
How can you die?
You're not responsible for how you die.
That's why you have to go to death.
No, the way it is.
It's wrong.
That is not our system.
That's not our system.
No, no, you're bringing people with particular purposes.
Now, I brought in Hustler knowing he'd be trouble, but I thought he'd do me more good with the drugs and the damage.
See, all of them brought in Hustler.
He's a PR type.
He's actually one of the campaigners.
That's right.
He's that guy from Hustler.
Again, it's Hustler.
We called him and warned him.
He put it down to Mitchell, supposing all of them had wanted the Democratic women.
He thought he didn't have to put his man over there.
See, I've had to satisfy myself.
I have no doubt he would have done it.
He would have done it if he thought it was the right thing to do.
But he didn't.
He didn't do it.
But Henry, that doesn't count in terms of a massive amount of crap that we would have to spray on it.
Spray on all of it.
This man knows all that he has had to do.
Of course he didn't.
I don't know if anybody had to admit this to me, but that's kind of what we would do if we were going to have different goals for the cause.
Basically, a child would be able to do that.
That's a run for your life.
In all of this case, there's no problem at all.
The point is, what the opposition is trying to do, they know that we can't get it.
They're trying to do is just have a smear of the social issue around that, and therefore destroy the response.
And you're not asking Mitchell to do anything.
All you're saying is that he should
If this happened in Haldeman's shop, then I think, if I were caught, I don't know what I would do.
I hope that if something grossly wrong happens in my shop, that I would say, I'm responsible.
And say the President doesn't know about it, I'm responsible, and I'll take the compensation.
It is a case of Haldeman not being responsible.
That's the difference between a veteran and a veteran.
A veteran, I think, will weaken you if you let him go, particularly if you let him go when it is a true lie and overwhelming evidence to have a view.
But you, sir, as a veteran, as a veteran, I have to make it clear that you are loyal to your friends.
That is very important.
My question is, what about now?
Steve Goldingman had sucked it out of the mill.
He's being boot-shaked now.
Why not?
Because he's been doing that totally without doing a good job at the mill.
That's it.
Watergate has been in the works for five years now.
Unless we let it down, unless we destroy the whole system.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Unless water becomes our obsession, we've got to keep riding the thing through, doing our job.
Making the plays.
We've got to put pictures at the time.
Daddy, you don't know, I cut up a lot of stuff.
But that stuff is the whole time I've been here.
It's been good.
It's been very bad, but I've done it again.
I'm going to be still at home.
I'm going to be still at home.
I'm going to be still at home.
I'm going to be still at home.
I'm going to be still at home.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
He didn't have to get suspended.
And there are a couple of press releases held on that.
You said it was at the FBI investigation.
How the hell do you know it was at the FBI report?
How could you make a judgment if you had been at the FBI report?
Of course, Dean ordered me to know about the White House.
I have a look at the FBI reports.
He had to sit in.
I took a white seat in.
The White House staffers had to do the FBI report by sitting in.
You can tell by a man's demeanor or a woman's demeanor whether they're lying or not.
Because I'm not reading the wrong part, you can't tell.
You should have said it.
And yes.
You're right.
If it happens to be one of them, then you're dead.
You're dead.
You're dead.
No, absolutely not.
He's trying to fuck us up.
Oh, no.
You know, this whole staff, this whole staff is the only one, basically, who has never wavered.
Never, because he wavered ever, ever, ever.
And nobody else has been in that category.
To his credit, I mean, he doesn't fuck.
He doesn't do that much other than Colson.
Colson did the doctor there.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
I haven't seen so much of Grover.
But even I often let him worry about me.
We've got to, we've got to stay in good shape.
We've got to spend time on it.
We've got to get on with it.
This is something that we've got to figure out.
That's why I love that.
We've got to get on with it.
We've got to drag on and on and on.
That's the urban way of how we're going to get there.
.
.
.
Okay.
They raised their hands and I was wondering, and they're all worried about what I'm going to do.
But God, we must have done something right for 40 years.
We were in 49 states.
And it's the best thing that we've ever done.
You think about the other countries, on Vietnam, on China, on Russia, on Europe, where everyone out there is in the United Europe, etc.
Europe was coming apart.
Even on Japan, Japan had a lot of traffic.
We had the Middle East, Cuba, and the domestic policy, you had riots.
You had the budget coming totally out of control.
And that was a very hell of a move.
You're in a free economy.
You're bound to have, you're bound to have some trash.
And this domestic situation, he cut them back out because they had got anything in front of them the other night.
But if you had the, if it was for the dashboard, I can't say, that would be a good thing.
And even with the war against them, they've gotten the worst deal since this afternoon, Mr. President, with the jack-of-the-mill.
And by July 20th, we voted out of the war and it took effect.
We've made it to July 15th with a China announcement.
We've had much trouble here, except when one is in the middle of it.
This has the nasty aspect that it's hard to get on the offensive.
But the butter game thing is still not one of those basic things that cuts deep in the public consciousness.
It's just adhering to the people they all share time with.
Once in a while, they want to get rid of the name.
Don't you agree with that?
But if they keep at it, it gets to them.
But then what is it all about?
Well, you'll get us a plan, will you?
Right, Mr. President.
And, uh, I'll be careful of you on the ICC there.