Conversation 431-009

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he should do it on the basis that this is another view of the, he thinks it's a bill of nature, this view of the charges, that this, that he should say exactly what happened here, that he would deserve these documents, that he was told they were not, not in any way related to the right age, that they were, what would you say, politically correct,

That he didn't open.

That's right.

Well, that's why his destruction line won't work, you see.

Why didn't you look into it and see what they were?

No, he must, let me say, must not ever say that part.

If he says that, that's a conclusion.

That's public, my dear.

If he says that the White House counsel, of course he ordered him to destroy, that he drew that conclusion,

All right, but you understand, that makes him look like a god damn, it looks like, it looks like they're, I don't know if it looks like a fool, but it looks like the three of them together were conspiring to destroy evidence.

I mean, they can't do it, he's got to put it, Pat's got to put it, yeah, he's got to be, he's got to put it in terms.

Well, he should not have duped that dude.

But he kind of did hurt her.

He could have saved her if he was there.

wonderful, loyal, thoughtful, and sometimes just wicked as he can be.

But let me say one thing.

When you sit in the presidency, I must say that on this point, I was ordered to destroy these documents, or even that I gathered the impression that Mr. Dean wanted me to destroy them.

That's practically the same thing, too.

Well, he's your best friend.

You see my point.

And that just doesn't add up.

It doesn't sound like him.

Is that what he would say tomorrow to me or not?

Yeah.

Well, what would he do tomorrow?

He's not in line.

He doesn't want to turn around.

Well, under the circumstances, you haven't seen, let's just put it this way, let's just put it this way, it doesn't matter if you've heard of it, if you've heard of rangers, if you think of rangers as dying bullets, you don't think so?

I have.

Yeah, yeah.

I frankly think myself, I'm not, I'm not of the view that we're just based on the first paper story and not the one I'll read and say, I'm not going to do that tomorrow, and the tomorrow chapter will be done.

I think, frankly, the other three and the others, and God damn it, the grand jury, let's see what the grand jury has, but at the end, we're going to, that's going to be out anyway, sure, you know what I mean?

And, uh, and so, I've got to, I may move, I may move on to the school center.

Fair enough.

All right.

And come on, that's right.

Don't do a damn thing as a result of this big story.

And tell Peterson, I don't know what to say to you.

And, uh, tell, tell Peterson that you're talking to him, that I appreciate his hard work in explaining this.

and now they're all being floated.

That's where it came from.

And they are kind of so reported.

In other words, that he's gonna look like Sebastian.

That's what, that's the way this thing better, better come out.

Because it's the truth.

It's the truth.

Yeah.

But what about, he hasn't ever taken you on.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Now he's trying to convince everybody else that he says it's just, he says it's just, yeah.

Thank God, you know, one thing, and this is something I get from other countries, you know, I never saw him personally go, never saw him about this, and then, then, because, because of the great transformation in February 22nd.

Never.

That's right.

Or February 11th.

Let me go.

Let me just check my books here.

27th.

27th of February.

That's right.

And then, never, except one night, to sign my wills.

That's right.

I look, that's what we work here, you know.

I mean, I put a man in charge, and that's it.

All we have been since then, he was a...

Last summer, I never, let's get one more straight.

I, the president, never saw God being the one to accept the design of the world.

And that was on August 14th.

On August 14th, the sign of the world.

That's the only time I ever saw it.

But everything that was put out by Ziegler and he stopped playing was based on what Dean told him.

There was no Dean written report, but my God, Dean orally was listening.

Why do you think Dean, lying in the woods, could have deliberately get out and say, I don't know what else to do?

Because Dean told him that.

Why would Ziegler accept it?

Did he give you the impression he did see me?

All right, well, anyway, I do think that the, well, I think he's gonna stay there until the, until I, I'll try to get his successor with him at a reasonable time, but generally he's, he's not that, but he should just resign for this.

I agree with the story.

But I don't think he should put out a story about his version of it.

Yeah, he said, let me see.

No, he said, no, he said, I'm not.

He said, this is a newspaper.

I'm not going to comment on this very first story.

I'm not going to comment on it.

I've asked.

I've asked to testify before the grand jury.

That's what he should do.

If that's much better, I'll send it on then back to the grand jury.

Any other questions?

830 in the morning is fine.

Tell him I'll see him at 830 in the morning.

What do you tell her?

It's nothing, nothing.

Nothing's gonna change.

Nothing about grades is gonna change.

I just don't think you can have grades.

I don't want grades statement or resignation to come off the model.

A direct prospect to learn.

That's what I'm saying.

Let's just get grades.

The test will happen here.

We can't wait for that.

What is the grade gonna say?

As of now, he just is not going to get out of here before the grand jury.

That's what I say to the grand jury.

What?

What he's going to say to the grand jury now is that, uh, first that, uh, D.T.O.

came over early on.

John Deacon, and in fact, these are highly censored national security cases.

And it's a very national security case.

Highly censored.

That absolutely nothing to do with the lottery.

And they should not see the lottery today.

They shouldn't be in it.

That's why we don't want them in the FBI files.

He took them.

He then will say that he gathered them back, that these were papers that should be shown.

Yes, but he made a mistake.

He said, the idea that they should have seen the light of day, and the national security that it showed was very bad for them.

Also, he said that they got to be able to see the sky.

He was amazed when he heard what had happened.

What would the lawyer say about that?

That doesn't...

I suppose they could say that's a... Well, they try to be a thing on that, but they'll have to do now, it's called healing.

Yes, the one guy who...

and we certified that there were no babies who went into the library again.

And that's funny, but it seems to me that you can make the case that there's no need to charge more than $1,000 a year.

At that point, if you try to make a case, I'm afraid it's a good idea.

There's apparently moldy-up wires and all kinds of crap.

I'm sure there's some around here somewhere.

I don't know.

I don't know if it's closed or not.

Looks like that guy that's at the top, there's some paint on it.

Can you do it again?

I don't know how you close it.

I know that, I know that, I know, for example, I mean, let me give you the argument that the resignation, the resignation of David McAllister, I thought this was a, I thought it was going to be like Stephen's life, but David,

... ... ... ...

In my view, the legal absence, it seems to me, is in parity from a standpoint of, frankly, running for general.

That's what it really has done.

I think it's in parity with the kind of thing you did with John, your own personal opinion about what happened in 2008.

I spoke about this, how you would come to know a problem like this, that they're already being paid, and that they need to, I'll say, force the total size of the care.

And the way that, the way that the internship is going, I thought it was going to have several months of need time for everything.

I think the problem is, the problem that you have, the problem that you have with being, with being in the same bed as the other one.

The only thing is, I sure as hell am not going to be able to leave you two without being on the same bed.

Likewise, this situation will still separate us.

You know what I mean?

Maybe you're going to do it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

He was amazed when I said he had picked me up and walked me out of the room.

And he said, I don't know what you've got in the frame, but you know, he said, why hell?

He said, around here and so forth.

We got in the frame a couple of times, and he practically went to the office every, I don't know, September or last, I don't know, I don't know, every day.

I just, I don't know, I don't know.

That's just, I don't know.

I was 14.

His name was...

Now he's recovering at 27.

Then he was in every day, virtually every day for a couple of weeks.

He was in every day.

Then he was in every day until March.

It wasn't quite as big as you had wanted it to be.

Yeah.

Every day until March.

About a month.

Four weeks.

Yeah, but I was gone part of it.

He was in the 27th and 28th.

He was going in the first.

Then he wasn't in the second.

He wasn't in the third.

He wasn't in the fourth.

He wasn't in the fifth.

He was in for 10 minutes on the sixth.

25 minutes on the 7th when you use them, but you know, not very much there in early March.

Not at all on the 8th.

Then you start on the 14th.

That's when you're here to start.

March 14th, and that was when you met with Dean and Moore.

You started that cycle.

You met with them on the 14th, you met with them on the 15th, you met with Dean along on the 16th, you met with Dean along on the 17th, you met with Dean on the 18th, you met with Dean on the 19th.

being more than 20, being with me part-time on the 21st, and with Mitchell on the 22nd.

And I was in, and he was out of the room again, so I said, you know, it all adds up to a total, a total time over a period from the Watergate timeout of 10 to 10 months, but approximately 12 hours.

All of it.

And virtually all of that, or all of it in the period of one month.

Virtually all of it in the period of a week, ten days.

It depends on what you eat, but we can't figure out how old it is.

Perfect.

Now I want to see it.

Please be my good son.

You were dating with me.

I sure was.

I thought he was going to want more than God.

He was sober.

And I think he was.

He was.

I think I was right.

I think what happened is he cried.

Doesn't he get deep inside of his own?

Gets tighter and tighter in the brain.

Something happened.

And then he put himself on the angle of light.

And that's when he went astray.

And I don't think that...

Well, I think he got himself into the suit without realizing it.

And I don't think he realized, really realized it when he got up there and started laying down.

But I don't think he realized it.

I really don't.

I think he knew there were problems, but I think not everybody had problems.

And they weren't really all that serious.

They were hands at the heart of the president.

Well, yeah, but that was, they thought he'd be cut out.

And at that moment, he was still dreaming, and even days later, during the adventure, we just stepped out and hit the lane for this.

See, what he was worrying about was the water gate.

Not to cover him.

Well, on that 21st night of the week, on that 21st night of the week, he was starting to worry about the cover.

But he was still hunting, remember?

Hunting on the water.

Yeah.

That's the question.

But he found out there was a water gate.

And on the borrowing stuff.

Not on the cover-up.

He wasn't worried about the cover-up as a legal problem to any great degree at that.

He was only worried about the problem that he was in.

He wasn't able to handle the cover-up.

And a lot later, he realized that the cover-up for him was a legal problem.

A criminal problem.

The time she talked to you, the cover-up was a practical problem.

How do you deal with it?

It was just beginning to emerge inside of you.

Well, it had been a problem to him earlier.

In fact, I don't know that, well, you know, apparently looking back now, he did regret his discovery.

I'm sorry.

At that point, you didn't know he was paying off the dues.

Nobody knew how he was going to pay.

You hit upon a very important point there, that in terms of the concentration of the assets, it has nothing to do with the hunt going on the water.

It's not trying to cover up the water.

It's trying to cover up the national security net.

And inadvertently also got into disturbing all that's happening in the water here.

But you still don't know what's happening.

Do you think they'll call back?

I don't think they will.

I don't think he's going to do all this stuff.

I think he's going to strike it out.

I think he's blocking these things out.

I mean, he's got a whole bag of goodies probably.

The reason that he recently said it was a problem to strike it out is because he's a striking person.

No, I think he'll strike it out all of a sudden early.

Why not?

And maybe early.

I don't think he will.

I just don't think he will.

That's, you know, I don't think the guy is a lawyer.

We've had that in our own terms before, I guess.

As lawyers, my point is, it's right in front of you.

It's right in front of you.

But what I'm trying to do, though, is that sometimes you have to deal with it all the time.

Unless he goes to the, he's lost his mind completely.

But at least, the guards and the acrobatics are not very helpful.

I mean, he's a totally different kind of guy.

That was done pretty well.

I knew it.

He's done a lot of damage, especially right now.

He's got security down.

And he's chasing girls.

I really don't think, you know, you can't help but worry about that kind of thing.

Well, it's a real impressive thing.

I understand, I understand that, uh, they pulled out, uh, Andrew Peterson's piece that is probably a little bit better than I've told you before.

All right.

All of them are there.

I'm going to take my word for it.

If you will, I'm going to tell you.

I'm going to tell you.

I wouldn't anticipate that specifically.

I have told Peterson, so that he's on notice, that there was a distraction in this problem.

I think I described it that way.

I think you're on?

That's right.

I think that, that level of size is .

You've got to remember, I'm sitting there explaining this thing back and forth on the tape to pick up every little stretch.

You're sitting there, and you need me to have it for a different purpose.

You know what?

Well, I'm going to call you in a minute.

Anyway, it's done.

It's done.

And that is what I mean.

It's all

I don't feel honest about it.

No questions on that.

But incidentally, the grade decision was right, but I haven't had grade resign on a basis for 30 years, and I don't know .

Do you agree?

I don't think so.

Do you get that?

I'll get a drink.

Hardball.

If I got to do a ball, I've got to do it.

Yeah.

Oh,

The only thing I mean, I don't want to beat your head.

Well,

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Well, you know, I suppose we'll get some new signs.

What about Watergate?

I don't know.

We have to come to Florida now, don't you think?

Sure, Jim.

Mr. President, I want to ask you a question.

All of Mitchell, what do you want?

And next, what do you want?

political science, and some little kids got out and took all the free science, medical science.

Yes, the remedy, and I think we can publish it very, very soon.

That was science.

Part of it, we well know, science is science and time.

But I don't believe that thought could come down to us.

I've argued this, but I just went over it before and I thought, leave, stand firm, leave, or leave.

Well, everybody comes down for residency.

Everybody.

You were very beneficial.

Well, yeah, but now that you look back, I heard that a bunch of others backed off of residency.

So, you know, based on what you talked about with Ron, you thought that was the right idea, but you said, looking at the other applications, he wasn't so sure about it.

But part of them come though, Rogers and Connelly, I think both now would

would perhaps lead to a plea that he has to do anything.

They don't back off of that too far.

I mean, Cotton, he says, and he was the one I respected, he really kind of tries to come out of it.

He rather tries to avoid it.

He says, if you can make it, the strongest position for you and the strongest position for the President should be to stay there.

But it's also the highest risk.

And he said, and the risk is completely enormous.

Because if you stay there, then you get flogged.

then you've got one hell of a problem.

The next best thing to do is to take a leave.

And that greatly reduces the risk, if not almost the risk, to the extent that it can be a little bit wrong.

It greatly increases your vulnerability, but doesn't kill you.

The resignation is the safest.

It's the most dangerous from your viewpoint.

And it's the, it doesn't add very much to what the elite provides.

Because you've got that from the presidency, but it takes away a lot from you.

It also takes something away from the presidency because the other nation is the one in line.

That's right.

And it eliminates the, any possibility of an option down the road.

Which, you're against.

I mean, you said, you know, first, politicians believe the argument.

I mean, the argument against the leader covers the result.

Well, you...

That's right.

If it is inevitable.

And he's trying to get this inevitable.

Maybe we've got to say that it is inevitable.

But if we say it's inevitable...

If you say it's inevitable, you're saying something that you shouldn't say.

If we say it's inevitable... Any other reason?

Except for the problems that poses on the defense.

And those are your problems as well.

Yeah, that's because I don't want our people convicted.

Now, do your lawyers believe that resignation can hurt them in their case?

No, sir.

How about a leak?

They believe that would hurt them too, but not as much.

A, and their interest is, of course, well, industry.

They're free.

They are sort of devoted, you know, to that business.

Maybe that's what they're saying.

My idea is, Bob, look, you've got to do it.

You might be lined up, but you don't have to ever want to do something.

Do something.

I'd like to talk to you about it.

You know, I don't have a few, but there's a very great merit to the argument.

There's a point, though.

You've got to stay one step ahead of the curve.

I knew that if we did the right thing, you know, if everybody about you could set your mind at ease.

Okay, well, you're done.

Well, the problem with that was that you've got to turn around and say, you've got to turn around and say, come on, now that we've done this, we've done it.

We've done it.

I didn't do it.

So now they say, what do you do now?

I think that was right.

I think that promised some time.

I think the president looked fairly good at this time.

I don't know what to do.

Yeah, they're still, they're turning on the president now.

The editorial side of politics.

On the ground, and the resignations will not, the resignations will make that worse, not better.

They're turning on him because why didn't he do something?

No.

On the ground, he is responsible.

Correct.

Well, isn't that inevitable?

If I get there now saying firing all of them doesn't do any good.

.

The line that is starting to move to the president is that the president can't assign the blame to anybody else.

The president must take the blame, must then clean the thing up, and must move ahead.

All right.

That's what I intend to say.

That's beyond simply saying, and it has nothing to do with the legalities of the matter.

And what they're arguing on the other side is that what the president may do is what the children did.

Which is to not take any action.

And just like when a jury decided who the criminal was in the staff work, and once it decided to fire him, and then never say anything about it.

Now, they're arguing that the fault there is not that he failed to clean up the staff, but that he failed to say something.

I think you've got to say something to the extent that this is a lousy buddy.

I was even thinking I might say it to the Chamber of Commerce.

I mean, I can't go there.

I know you're wrong.

Here's the way I feel about the lead.

I'm thinking about it from another point of view.

I just don't know.

I know this conversation.

I don't give a shit what the Democrats do.

I care what I do a lot about having the Republicans come down here with a resolution that they will build upon.

I didn't know you.

I thought it was a resolution demanding all of the votes you made.

All of us are now on the basis of this and probably are demanding it.

They don't know that.

They don't know what to pull out of the other paper for me.

Tell me about that.

But you see, I'd like to think that positive approach.

The one problem we've got with that is this.

Now they say, and the President will just remember a couple weeks ago, George Bush, the Vice President, the President will just say he cooperated with the investigation and they had no problem.

So he said he cooperated with the investigation.

And then they said, well, the president's got to hit hard, so why shouldn't we hit hard?

Now they say, I don't know, you can fire all of them.

So you fire all of them.

And do you think they're going to say, well, that takes care of the Watergate case.

Now he's going to the nation's business scale.

They're going to say, now you better fire everybody else.

You've got to fire all of them.

You've got to fire Pat Gray over there, that guy.

He's got to get rid of his attorney general because they'll turn on Peterson at some point.

I know that, but even even facing that, that doesn't mean that at this point that you just sit there like a sitting duck, you know what I mean?

Let's face it.

But we had to do something.

And you kept one job ahead of a fucking sheriff.

Now in this case, that's what we're doing.

I know who the target is, Bob.

I know this isn't going to satisfy them.

I know they hate my guts, and they're always going to hate my guts, and I say they.

However, I think the congressional guys, for example, they would be, the Republicans would be satisfied.

I think the Republicans...

Yes, I think there's something about that.

If you get her open now, too, well, just think about it.

If you did something, there are a lot of them who would be delighted to see, like they were with Sharon, but they're really delighted to see John go underneath them, but both of us.

They really would be.

It's basically part of the problem.

They hated Adams, and I say they don't know all these people.

We don't have that a lot.

We don't have a lot of good supporters.

They're not enough to carry the bag.

And you'll get a lot of good assistance from our loyalists.

That's the other thing.

Our super loyalists will be offended by you playing in the MLS game.

That's where the league is better than the nation.

That's right.

The league's in here, it's fair.

But that's where I'm from.

this is a factory well i'll tell you about the order this way

I don't know what my nature is not to be

I don't like to hurt people.

I don't like to do it.

And basically I'm a stand up guy.

I stand up for my friends.

You know, I fight for it.

I call people when they lose ball games.

You know, I call them when they're down.

I stand with them when they're sick.

I mean, this is another character of the president.

But the argument is the other way.

That's a very admirable human trait.

And it's an admirable presidential trait.

Until it gets in the way.

But the proper grinding on the office, here in the office, here in the office, is the critical point that you and I, John, have come to.

It has come to.

It is the point.

And it's going to be yours.

And it's been the way it has been for hundreds of years in relation to that poison.

John can't do his job, you can't do your job, and I guess we just have to fight it out anyway.

You know, really, that's what we have to do.

Mainly to do the job.

And also, I think, another thing about this, if you haven't read Sex Crises, the best thing in Sex Crises is not even one of the chapters, but the introduction, which I...

It took almost a month to write.

But it's an introduction based basically on the old proposition of crises, a lot of them.

But you have the problem of fight or flight.

And the point is, it's the question of the worst time, the very worst time.

trying to make the goddamn decision.

Once you've decided, then you feel fine.

Then you'll have a period afterwards, when you're, you won't make bad decisions.

But my point is, we're in a position now, Clary, we should decide, and then move on.

See my point?

Well,

You can't do it.

You've got to be sure that once you decide, that's the enabling you to move on.

The resignation thing, the resignation thing, frankly, let me tell you, the reason I buckled at it, right, I didn't belong.

You know, God damn it, I'm not going to do something like that.

I could run the presidency one way or another, right?

That's a common factor.

Unless it impairs the operation of the president.

Now we get to the point, and that's the close call here, where it is beginning to where it doesn't care.

In other words, also it impairs your operation, it impairs John's operation.

And I've got this goddamn Congress to deal with.

I've got a hell of a lot of battles to fight.

And I've got to clear the goddamn air.

How do you do it?

Do you clear the air with a resolution?

No.

But at least you get a couple of targets.

to move from one place to another.

It's true that they'll target more on me, but then I'm assuming responsibility, and I'm going to say, I am responsible for this.

I regret it.

And I did not pass the buck to anybody else.

So I'm going to make a, I don't want to make a checker speech, but I'm going to say that to the press.

I kind of like the idea that he ended up cheating with me.

The idea that Steve could give to a live audience.

Yeah.

I wouldn't give up just for the press.

I'd give it to Jim.

He could do it to a live audience, he could do it to a television.

I'd give it to a live audience.

Yeah.

Or he could end up cheating with a product owner.

How did you reach that point?

How did you put it about then?

Sure, you know, when you do it, it's a change of time.

It maybe should be a lot less.

It maybe, and you've been pregnant, and you had a problem and a crisis to deal with, but the American people said that you're best of both worlds.

Maybe you should stay in character.

And frankly, although I am consistent, I tell the, I don't know if I, but for me, I'm not.

Well, let's say if you do it, you're not very far ahead of the wave.

You may be ahead of a little.

I don't have very far ahead, and I think maybe you want to be a little bit ahead.

Well, you've got to override the pressure.

Yeah, but on that, the only problem with doing the prime tenor right now, I think the time to do the prime tenor is when the rectory acts.

You see?

And otherwise, otherwise, other things are going to come up.

Now the Grand Jury is active, and I want to have a higher standard of conduct, and everybody here, as far as these people are concerned, even though they weren't invited, I feel it's best that they not be here, or they feel that they're not here, you know, we've got to go through all that, there's a higher standard, and we're going to get to the bottom of this, and we're going to cooperate with the urban committee, and let's get some new rules, and so forth and so on.

The most important thing is

I mean, I want you to know why it all happened.

I was attending the store and not pending for the policy.

Now, I have no other responsibilities to the balance of my account, except to be president.

And I'm going to be serving the vote in my country, to save the politics in this country, to get back to my country, and to be president all over the country, and I'm going to do that.

I'm going to do that.

I just can't have this final kingdom, any final violence, and so forth and so on.

It's the same east side, it doesn't matter if they want to party, it doesn't matter if they say no.

I'm not making an excuse for the fact that there were eight, there were 36 incidents of this, there were 14 incidents of that, there were 15 incidents of that, 350,000 farms, a lot of it, and a lot of it came out of there.

This is happening, but this is no excuse for us.

We are responsible for what we do, each of us in our own right.

I think it's a responsibility.

And now we're going to move forward.

We've got three things to do.

I didn't handle it.

I was just on a bad business.

He's actually, I really had an excuse.

Not a justification, but I got an excuse.

It's apparently nobody's writing.

Oh, yes, sir.

They're all writing.

But I would say, oh, sure, that the president, you know, that other than the few that are starting to go down, the president has to take responsibility.

But even there, his responsibility is that he wasn't on top of it.

And if the people are on top of it, I don't see why a lot of people are supposed to impeach for what?

Oh, sure.

Let me say that, that's Earl's point, so that would be John Dean's point, but do you think the people of the United States Senate are going to impeach the President on the basis of John Dean?

I mean, I am thinking of impeaching this in terms of a trial out there or something like that, but I am thinking in terms of the public mind.

I mean, John Dean,

Zegers, just, firm, as he's a deacon, is a totally discredited fellow right now.

He could be wrong.

He could have been basically right.

That's one of the problems with TV here in these years.

Well, and you and John must not be concerned that if they have gotten Dean out of the way or not, that he's the same guy.

You know, whatever that is.

I know, but if you're concerned, the point is, we know he's going to be handed over.

We know he's going to be handed over.

And the President is in charge of it.

I do wish about that while I live with my cousins.

I'm kind of thinking now that we go this route, that maybe we ought to give early minute meetings and go out first.

And keep these for a while.

That's a very good point.

Let us at least get some credit for taking the initiative.

I, I, I think there's a good, we'd be a lot clearer off the track.

Track.

And then, if they have a, see, now one thing that may happen is events may over take us.

Maybe Dean will come in.

And, uh, they start, and then I think we ought to wait a few days and then go out on a different path.

Yeah.

I think, I think if we can, see, I don't think you want the one story.

Yeah.

Burnham and Holloman and Dean.

I think we need to separate.

I think the way we can do it, since you can't treat us differently.

A long way out of here.

The, uh...

Here's your letters.

As you said, they are legal letters, not PR letters, but they said they helped to have them made.

That's right.

Okay.

on the rest of that thing.

After what I left off, we got back to the discussion of whether to go to the Grand, whether to call the new Grand Jury to give it up, zeroing his ID at the time.

You know, the Grand Jury had the White House call before it was released.

Now, he would have said, you were there to hold it.

And why did I oppose it?

I don't know.

But I don't know.

I think that he wanted to set up this meeting with, he wanted to meet with the individual .

He went through it with that team.

He said, we're going to face, we're faced now with the fact that the U.S. Attorney is going to pull all the defendants back and immunize them and send them back to the grand jury.

And he said that won't do any good because they'll sell them all.

Except for Hunt.

And that's Hunt's opportunity.

And I'm frightened.

And he said, that's why, for the immediate thing, you've got no choice with Hunt.

With the one point, is that right?

He said, that's right.

She said, would you agree that if that will buy time, we better get that done?

He said,

And he said, Mitchell has talked to Pappas.

I called him last night.

John asked me to call him last night after our discussion.

And after he met with John to see where that was.

I heard him.

I guess.

And I said, have you talked to Pappas?

And this was all in code because my financial picked up the phone.

And so I said, did you talk to the Greek?

He said, yes, I have.

And I said, is the Greek bearing gifts?

He said, well, I'm going to call you tomorrow.

Dean says, did you talk to the degree?

Mitchell says, yes, I have.

Dean says, is the degree very good?

Mitchell says, well, I want to draw you along.

You said, well, look, what is it you need?

Dean said, it sounds easy, but that's where our breakdown was.

You said, well, if you had it, how would you get it?

Dean said, well, it really leads to the mailboxes, and then someone phones Hunt, who are a bunch of amateurs in that business.

And I said, that was the thing we thought Mitchell ought to be able to do, is to find somebody to do that sort of thing.

None of us know how to do it.

I said, Dean said, you have to wash it.

It has to go to Vegas and to New York City.

And we went through all that.

He says, I learned all this after the fact, and I'll be in great shape for the next time around.

He laughed.

And I said, what about the money we moved back from here?

Dean said, they may have some still.

And I said, Kambach must have some.

Dean said, Kambach doesn't have a cent.

And I said, the 350 was all we saved.

And Kambach came and said, that's the problem.

We're so square that we get screwed up and all this stuff.

And you said, let me suggest this, the Grand Jury thing has a deal, because at least for a parking lot, if you've got all that stuff, you can turn back to the question of the Grand Jury.

He said, once we started, I thought it was out of control.

They did an amazing job of keeping them on the track before, because I didn't know where they were going, and I can't just say no.

You asked what happens at the Grand Jury.

Dean says it depends on what the recruiter says.

It changes the story all the time.

I said that's the best letter we have on the recruiter.

He said he'd kill me, blame himself, unless they give him immunity.

Then we'd have a nutrition problem.

Dean says we have control of who they are.

He'd say, I'm thinking of the president, and we'd be cooperating, and that's where it should be done.

We'd make a jury, and then we'd take each other's votes before we could take it.

I said, then did we agree that we scraped through the transcripts, and he said, that's not how it's done, that's up to the court.

And there was a lot of talk about making jury stops.

Then he said, I said, it's to our interest to get it out.

.

Dean says it starts the whole FBI interview.

You say, do you think he might get early?

Dean said, well, probably because they haven't smoked because the national security line won't settle the criminal situation.

And you said, we have no choice on that.

Eventually, he's going to close no matter what.

Dean said, well, I'd like to see how we can lay out everything we know to the grand jury so that upon closing, we'll have already closed it.

And he said, you mean including the Oregon deal and all that good?

And he says, no, not the Oregon deal.

This hunt would go to jail for that, too.

So he was going to raise that.

And he said, well, that's right.

You should go into the national security area anyway.

And he said, well, the other thing we have is we have a grand jury and we have a committee.

The grand jury appeals because the president makes a move and that's the place to do it.

And the third is just to operate on the fight.

He said, that's a high risk.

It's something we'll fight.

He said, and it will look like the president's covering it up.

And he talked some about the legal ground of the grand jury or a public statement about the grand jury.

He said, we have to move fast with the sentencing of Don Friday.

Dean said the attorney general could call Sirica and ask for a delay in sentencing for two weeks.

Dean said the person I feel we could do with Peterson would be awkward for him, but we could remove him from his present post to discuss with him.

Megan was from a special assignment here and had us advise as to what is obstruction, what isn't, and nuances.

When you said how would you get him out, Dean said it would be indirectly to Peterson.

You said calling in as a special counsel at the White House rather than me.

And I said to him, you know, Peterson's planning to leave anyway, and he was very surprised at that.

And you said, well, follow up and see if findings can get a put on it.

And second, get Mitchell down here.

I want to discuss this.

And I said, why not tonight?

And then you said, I'll keep looking through.

Well, maybe Dean should report to me at the end of the meeting.

I should stay away from Mitchell's arguments.

And you said it's good to consider these options when we have the right plan.

I will decide.

There's no doubt that you were right on the way you went before the election.

Now the election's over, and we need a new plan now.

And I said we have to turn off the erosion because it comes to the president.

We've got a better option than he does.

I'm going to start talking about that at the end.

That part was better than the first part.

Yeah, it's, the whole thing is still, because I talk about hunting, in the context of, of trying to smoke out from Dean, what kinds of things he would say to you.

Well, this part is, I mean, uh, I deferred a few things to give you much relief, but that part is, uh, when you look at that, we are not saying there's nothing to, uh, to do with it.

I don't, the thing I'm concerned about is I did not plan to do something about hunting.

Good afternoon.

Oh, sir.

You didn't say anything today about us.

You said you'd get better now and talk about this thing, and I said... Not about this, sir.

No, I don't.

But, I mean, the point is that on Trump, you said, look, eventually he's going to blow anyway, remember?

I used that thing.

And you've done that before the election, and it won't work, you know?

It's my, he talks about his trump card, that may be what he thinks, but let me say, that's a trump card that the hell of a son of a bitch for him to play, too.

It's really an admission that he is involved in the whole business, which he has not yet, he's never admitted that, has he?

No.

That's the only discussion of the 350 that ever occurred with Dean.

I'm lettering.

I don't think so.

I think because he explained it to you in elementary terms, it would indicate that this is the first time.

This is the outline of the study.

But in his earlier, the earlier that he read me yesterday, he did mention the tree tips.

Yeah.

That's right.

So therefore, that must have been the first time.

That's my point.

Yeah.

The way he told you about it would indicate that it was the first time.

Yeah.

He said, for example, he was talking about the problem with Bob.

Right.

I don't remember.

As a matter of fact,

The conversation, looking at it even at its worst, does indicate that for the first time, a dean was coming in and saying, well, there's a cancer in the heart of the presidency, and we've got this problem to come.

And I said, well, God, man, this is the National Security.

We've got to turn it off.

And we looked at it.

What you're also seeing for the first time is that there's a problem with the dean.

Because he's told me what he's done in dropping his money off the phone booths and things like that, and he says it really is good.

But he, that's the first, you know, that sort of thing.

That's right.

And from that time on, I did not see him until it came in that day for 15 minutes to talk about resignation, which is also significant.

Before the night, he's on a hangar.

He's on Sunday night.

Wait a minute.

After you met with Brodisman and Nathan.

Oh, you called us in here Sunday night.

Then you had to eat from all this.

Oh, that was after.

You had to eat from all this.

Well, I don't want you to bother listening to that one.

It's going to be even more of a list.

I thought it was just probably a ripper's ball that I had caught in.

And being by that time, I thought it was a rancher hitting it.

That's interesting.

Anderson, Jack Anderson, has what he calls the astonishing story.

You know, he told about a watergate cover-up tore apart in the stitches.

from the part of it that I know is accurate.

I am accurate.

He says, for one thing, he says, our sources declare categorically that President Nixon had no events on it until the water break in the boat.

From the first, former Attorney General of John Mitchell and White House Counsel John Dean also swore to him that they had no part in the legal operation.

Ordering.

It was well known around the White House however that Jeff Stewart Magruder was an active in the scandal.

I think this is a wholesome story.

The defendant goes into it as number two man in the community directed the activities of the court, but he submitted a regular report to the computer on the bugging under the code name Jensen.

We were also waiting for the lady to draw cash out of it for the lady's sake.

At the request of our gaffer, the witness got the lady's story of contacting the computer and the lady going up to Long East at Burning Tree to Powell Mall.

I called Clint Easton back with him and told him they were caught red-handed.

It was said about a security chief, Clint Easton picked up a telephone and said, Colt was the one who picked up the telephone.

This may be Clint Easton's story.

I briefed Assistant Attorney General Henry Peterson.

Henry instructed Clint Easton, I want to be sure that these people are treated as any other person who would be treated.

He was arrested under those circumstances.

They chased him.

The chase was literally a return campaign and the court began sucking his body into a shredder.

Over at the White House, meanwhile, Dean ordered two aides to clean up the files of watergates and sprayer at Howard Hunt.

Eight cardboard cartons were sneaked out of the White House historical warehouse, later returned to the White House and both of the documents selectively destroyed.

Dean was ordered by the President to find out whether any White House people were involved, contrary to the impression given out by the White House, Dean never submitted a written report.

Our sources state flatly that he used this authority to obstruct the FBI and keep incriminating evidence away from the Justice Department.

He even ordered Hunt out of the country.

White House aide Charles Coulson, according to one source, exploded.

Do you want to make the White House an accessory to a fugitive from justice?

One of the President's closest advisors, Erwin, wanted to put out a statement acknowledging the Grugers' role in the Y8 conspiracy.

This was vigorously opposed by Clark McGregor, who succeeded Mitchell as campaign chairman.

That's Coulson also.

A few presidential advisors, including Earl Clinton and Colson, warned the President in February that the Watergate decision must have been approved by Mitchell & Deacon.

Mr. Nixon replied that both have denied any involvement and asked for proof.

By mid-March, the President's statement began to waver.

The order being decanted was to write a belated report on the Florida investigation after a few days of presidential retreat being reported back to the president.

We simply couldn't write a report.

Angrily, Mr. Mason took Dean off the life of the case.

Olsen, meanwhile, took a life detector test to prove his own innocence.

He's mysterious.

Now we're all going to have to take one.

Colson and Erlikon also put together an information path.

One, Dean had advanced knowledge of the Watergate program.

Two, Dean had ordered them out of the country.

Three, Dean had authorized payments to the defendants to keep their mouths shut.

On Friday, April 13, Erlikon confronted Dean with the charges.

He repeated, that could be.

That night, Dean put together some documents he had been saving, which indicated both Harlan and Earl had knowledge of the water being covered.

Next day, which would be Saturday.

Dean took the documents to Assistant U.S. Attorney Earl Silver and made accusations against Haldeman, Curley, Mitchell, and the Gruder.

In return, Dean asked for immunity.

Silver refused to grant it.

Instead, he called in the Gruder and confronted him with deep revelations.

This broke down the Gruder, who also confessed to his own conspiracy.

The English story doesn't look as good there, does it?

And this is put out, I assume, by Coulson.

And the period in it that I don't know.

In fact, Coulson and Erwin put together information.

Chuck's trying to tie himself into the, you know, the path of this.

He put together some documents.

He didn't say, that's what I don't understand.

How did Colson know that?

That's what Colson meant.

What kind of documents was Dean possibly going to have?

He got a couple of letters.

So he says, Dean had a statement for the Boshman file.

He took it out and then brought it back.

And the documents were destroyed.

Most of them were destroyed.

That's the area I don't, I wonder about.

I just wonder if there's enough, you know, in this, if it made up the story of the parking.

I mean, Colson may be the one that did that in the document.

You know what you mean?

Or the, no.

You see, Colson may have called Dean and said, for Christ's sake, get those documents.

Yeah, yeah.

There was a story, you know, that Colson said was very worried.

Dean told me about the documents.

So Dean covered himself on that.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

We were, you wouldn't know, Dean would come off, he'd come off in his so-called cop car with a half-assed saying, I know President about it, the President said, get the money, and he'd go to the other day, now there it's apparent.

Let me say, if you were called to the stand and asked about that conversation, what would you say?

Would you say, well, it's a privileged conversation, the President is authorizing this rule?

I would say it's a privileged conversation that the President has authorized me to characterize it as I remember it.

And as I remember it, the President at that point was very much, very anxious to try to get to the facts of the development.

He had spelled out from before I came into the room what he believed to be the Greenwater Gate story.

and that had led to some areas as, and he had cited examples of problems, and one of the examples he cited was this threat.

And the president had apparently picked that up before I came in and then reopened it when I was in there on the basis of trying to sound out on what his recommendation would be in dealing with that option.

And it probed different things.

He said, well, would you do this?

Would you do that?

Would you recommend this?

Would you recommend that?

And it was clear to me in watching that, listening to that discussion that the president was trying to draw Dean out in terms of what his approach to it was, what his knowledge was, and what the background to it was.

As I said, should we take it to the branch, or should we make a statement?

And then the key point that I make in there is, I think it's the last of the conversation, which is the important thing, is that hundreds is going to blow anyway.

Hundreds is going to blow anyway.

So that won't work, basically.

But in the interim, you were questioning, as you were in other areas of this thing, you were questioning and probing the

clearly to determine not only what facts he was talking about, but what he could actually manage to dethrone in some way or the other.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I said what?

This isn't going to work.

Why did the President call you into that meeting, Mr. Allen?

Well, he frequently calls me into meetings to make sure that I'm involved in matters of importance that he wants to settle.

We have to consider the options and what they were and what to do there.

Consider those options.

I don't see it so much as you were considering the options.

In that sense, you were considering options on how to deal with the Senate committee jury question.

But as far as the hunting is concerned, and that money thing, I didn't get the feeling you were dealing with options nearly so much as I had the feeling you were trying to smoke out what courses and procedures would come.

I don't know.

Not only that, but I was also saying, well,

This is a national security matter.

It's very serious.

And it's necessary.

You've got to do something about it.

Can't somebody talk to them?

You know, explore that.

And Dean said, well, I don't want to reveal the next security thing because that's not good.

Right?

And then the

But on the money thing and so forth, that he talked about the deed being called Mitchell.

If you were exploring the money thing the other time, you'd see what he was doing.

Because he raised earlier the problem of money.

We didn't understand what all that was about.

And what the process was.

You asked, like, how do you handle the money?

What do you do with money?

What, you know, and Dean said, well, LaRue handled it, but he left it around at, uh, telephone booths.

That's the first time I ever knew LaRue.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

The first time I really ever knew who handled money or what or anything.

I had read... Gosh, I'm not dumb.

I had read that Mrs. Hunt...

that these Cubans got money in their bags, in their doorstep.

I'd also read a letter to the Cuban committee, I saw that thing came in there.

And the Pappas thing, the Pappas thing is there.

But on that, my conversation on Pappas is pretty, I think,

Well, Pappas was one of the number of major contributors that we met with.

That's right.

No, no, that's right.

And I said, yes, I know about Pappas.

But what I was referring to, Pappas and I didn't discuss this.

Well, he said he just did the Pappas, which was an element in the campaign.

That's right.

Well, Pappas had said it was helping Metro on certain things.

And I said, well, that's fine, thank you.

But he didn't tell me what it was.

I think it's a matter of fact that somebody should be sure to talk to that as well, which is being very helpful on the water movement.

And I guess the water movement, as I said, Mitchell wants to be sure to talk about this.

It's very helpful.

Very helpful.

Well, I may have said helpful in raising funds for his defense.

You see, I...

They're going to see the U.S. and Chinese government and they have a deal with them.

Would that work for something else anyway?

They're going to think they're moved.

They're going to go in and ask you to be heard to give an early appointment.

They're only going to push for the appointment.

They want very much to get a private meeting.

We have four when we get to the Grand Jury.

Oh, yeah.

They're afraid if they push to the Grand Jury, they've got to say, well, fine, just bring them into the Grand Jury at one point.

I've tried that one time.

Well, that's the line Peterson told me.

Appointment first.

And I said, fine, we should ask for an appointment.

And she's done it.

We should not then ask for the grand jury.

You already made the point that Peterson should get us to the grand jury.

And what we should be seeking now is the appointment with the prosecutor, which is what Peterson told you to have us do.

Correct.

And then following that, it's up to...

See, they're very, they get to sit in, the lawyers sit in at the appointment.

Correct.

They want to be there.

They don't, they aren't there to do anything.

They want to be there and try and smoke out what the thing is.

Now, they very much do not want the appointment.

Until you get the thing from Peterson, I want you to avoid the APC system that puts any of the charges on us.

Right.

And so they will seek an appointment, but then they'll say that we can't work it out until Monday or Tuesday.

Right.

Something like that.

Which is true, because I'll be going to Mississippi tomorrow, so I don't know.

Right.

You'll go to Mississippi by all means.

And, uh...

Right, but you go to... No, he doesn't normally go.

He should go.

And I look odd, and he does.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean, he's a loyalist in one sense, but a hearer, he's trying to help but nail D. You better watch out, D will try to nail him.

Well, yeah, I've already known why.

I know D will read this and figure it out.

He asked us if it either came from Colson or Ervin or both.

Because it nails Dean and it builds Colson to a degree it builds Ervin.

What it says about Ervin is true.

Is it not?

I guess so.

Did Ervin... Ervin didn't really confront Dean with charges, did he?

No.

What Ervin did is say...

And then he started dating because he said, here's the way the thing stacks up.

I don't think he confronted him with having advanced knowledge because Irving still doesn't think he did everything.

That's right.

No.

Well, Dean.

In fact, these charges are not right.

Dean had advanced knowledge, no.

Dean ordered him out of the country.

Now, that's true.

But then he rescinded the order.

Correct.

And Dean's trying to hang that order on Hurley.

Correct.

Yes, Hurley was trying to hang on Dean.

And Dean had authorized famous defense to keep him out of Chevrolet.

I don't know.

I don't know that Dean tried to do that.

He could say very well.

I didn't know it was done for that purpose.

He may have a real problem with that, though, unless he...

He apparently was being directed with the lawyers to try to do that.

Dean...

Well, the room's gonna have to tell everything.

It's gonna have to take building to tell everything, that's for sure.

So whoever dealt with it, it's gonna come out.

I assume that he dealt, well, I'm sure he had conversations with him.

I assume he dealt with it.

He didn't have property.

He was a drug addict.

Did you not say no?

I sure as hell don't think you did.

But on that point, Bob, you've got to simply say, your story still is, I would probably say, that that was a humanitarian issue.

Is that what you're accountable for?

I don't think that people are concerned about their lives.

How about the 350?

Was that the reason you used it?

Sure.

Well, no, the 350, the 350 came up in a separate context from their need for money first, which was the question, what do we do with this money?

And I said, it should be handed over to the committee.

So who asked you that?

John.

Right.

I had forgotten he had the money.

John was closing out his files here and getting ready to leave.

And he said, what do I do with the $350,000?

And I said, good Lord, we've got what we have.

I thought you'd go over to the committee.

And over there, we'll give you all a piece of grand total cash.

And I said to him, he says, and this fits together, go and talk to Dean and work out a way of getting it over there.

And he assumed that by that I was saying work out the legal arrangements.

You're right.

You've got to get that taken care of.

And so he did.

And Dean didn't get it worked over.

And then Dean, the next I know, was Dean is saying to me, we need money.

And I say, well, what about the 350s?

Don't they have that?

He said, no, we haven't been able to get it over there.

I say, well, you've got two needs to both of us.

We want to get rid of the money, and they need money.

Right.

At the committee.

So why don't you try and work that out?

Right.

Now, me in the case...

in the middle of this and that's where there's a discrepancy and i've been checking this as one of the practices i've had for a lot of years and work out at this point if you say peterson says that he says that forty thousand dollars returned before the election that would get dropped in some way

Now check that back, and no money, the date, all that money was held over in Arlington in a safe deposit box until November 28th.

And on November 28th, it was turned over to Stront.

But your thought was, now there is a problem there, because Stront is not sure, he says, what he did with the bag of money when it was turned over to him, whether he put it in his safe here, or whether he gave it to John Dean.

And he says he may have given it to Dean.

he's not sure whether he put it immediately in the safe or whether he gave it to dean and dean know the problem and then gave it back

Now, there's a potential that's just been out here.

I have no reason to believe it's the case, but I have no reason to believe it's not, which is that he did give it to Dean, and that Dean used it in piecemeal chunks.

He took money out of it.

He used it for the things for the road.

After November 28th.

He didn't have it for November 28th.

Why did he have it for November 28th?

Because the subject never came up.

It was sitting over in the safe.

That's your recollection?

I don't have any recollection.

This is drawn.

That's what I'm told.

That I'm told independently by a strong man and by a letter from you.

But see, Strong couldn't get it out of the box, only Butterfield could get it out, alright, of Butterfield's friend's box address.

But the route of the money out of the box had to be from Butterfield's friend to Butterfield.

And Butterfield says that there was one withdrawal in May, he was 22-7, alright, and there was no other withdrawal until the total money was taken out on November 28.

He's the one that supplies that day.

Strong says he doesn't know what the day was, but he said it was after the election.

Butterfield's memorandum, he's got that clear.

Butterfield's so pretty and precise.

So that would make a period for Raymond before he fell before the election.

Just on that one, let me say, I would have no...

I'm not sure of anything on that at all.

He didn't say there was some before and some after, but he may be wrong.

Well, there's another thing that's logged in here that I wasn't aware of, which is that he apparently made the point that he was drawn underneath me at one point, that he was going to have to mortgage his house in order to get money to keep this thing going, which would indicate that he was up to his asking personally.

efforts to supply this money, and that as he got super desperate, would come back to whatever source he could get.

Now, going back to this meeting.

Where is it?

I don't know.

I don't know whether that was a facetious knock on the door or whatever.

And he said...

He said, when they ran out of the CommBot money, they played this part back and made more notes on it.

And, you know, they played the earlier part back and made more notes, but they don't do the editing.

Right.

I'm getting on to Christmas now.

He said, when they ran out of the CommBot money, they came back at the $3.50 that was here.

I had to explain what it was for.

So he's there making the case that he told me why he was getting the money.

I said, that was sent to a room where it belonged.

I said, but it was sent in pieces.

Although the balance was all returned to a room, but there was no receipt.

We could go through piecemeal giving.

Now, he then says, we could continue the piecemeal giving.

Because I'd have to tell all of them what I needed.

And he'd get strong to go up to the safe.

And every time I asked, he had to get strong to go to the safe and then have him take it to LaRue, which was a forever operation.

Now that, to me, has to be the deep effort to establish a line different than the back.

Because it was not taken out in chunks.

But if, in fact, Dean held the money at some period of time, he may have taken chunks out.

Because Strawn did not count the total.

Strawn counted out $40,000 when he delivered $40,000 because he was totaled by delivering $40,000.

This was in January.

So Strawn had been holding this money, or someone had, from November through December and into January.

Oh, it wasn't delivered on November 28th.

It was delivered to Strawn on November 28th by Alex.

Oh.

And it was not delivered to LaRue until January.

Why isn't it delivered to Strawn?

Because Strawn was clearing out his files, getting ready to leave.

and asked me what to do with the money.

I said, get it back to the committee.

So Sean called Alex and said, give me the money.

I said, get it back to the committee.

Then he got it, and he thinks, because I told him, you know, work it out with Dean, that he may have given it to Dean.

But he's not sure.

In any event, at some point, it ended up in his safe.

If he gave it to Dean, he got it back from me.

And put it in the safe.

Because when time came in January to deliver the $40,000, Strong went through his safe and got out $40,000 and took it to the road.

And then he says, his recollection is three days later, he said, deliver the balance to the road and get a receipt for $350,000.

I mean, Strong delivered the balance to LaRue without counting, so he doesn't know what was in, what was left.

He doesn't know how much he gave LaRue that last time.

And he asked for a receipt for $3.50 from LaRue.

And LaRue said, I'm not going to give you a receipt.

This meeting never even happened.

So Strachan came back and reported to Dean, who supported Strachan, came back and reported to Dean.

The room said he will not give you a receipt and that the meeting didn't happen.

And Dean said, that's okay, I'll work it out.

And that's the end of the letter for Strachan.

All he knew.

And that adds up to the 40,000 before the election and so forth.

And also if Dean was tapping this money, if Strong had given it to Dean and Dean was tapping it, it had to have been in December.

But John didn't have it.

John didn't get it until November 28th.

So it can't have been any other.

It can't have been used before the election.

I don't know why that's significant.

It's only significant because it's time to mess with the facts a little bit.

But this was money for peace even after the election.

And after they've been convicted, that writer and writer and what the hell, that's the time to do it.

I think it was in January.

I don't know when they were convicted.

No, I shouldn't think so.

I don't know when they were convicted.

Well, before they were.

I think it was in January.

It was before they were convicted.

Before the judge laid the sentence.

but we're still unable to get a lawyer to speak.

As far as we're concerned, God will surely speak.

Only it's still illegal to speak, as we know.

There are lawyers who still say they haven't been paid.

Right?

But I'm planning to sue them.

We know some of the lawyers will say they will.

On the other hand, what do we think for people to speak and so forth?

There was also the support of the families.

That's what I was told, but I didn't question it.

I didn't get into what, you know, detail.

What he said is we've got to have money for these guys that are raising, came about family support and their legal fees, about taking care of their family and their legal fees.

At that point, they were expecting to clean field and go to jail.

Crack, crack, crack, crack, crack.

I mean, the sentencing.

The sentencing wasn't until March.

Because on March 21st, even, was the sentencing.

Unsentencing was going to be on March 23rd.

So this was long before that.

But you talk to your lawyers about it.

They don't feel I have a defense because they don't feel there's a charge.

It's a conspiracy that some people want.

Yeah, but they can't make that.

Why can't they make it?

Because there's no way that I'm going to make it.

I don't want it.

I'm going to have to get one of the lawyers.

They feel I have no motivation to keep them quiet.

And he has no intention to.

Back to the election.

Right.

White House is not going to go on.

Right.

That's right.

As far as I know, there was no danger from their talking anyway.

Oh, we know who they're going to talk about.

That's something, incidentally, that is still a mystery to me.

I don't know why we care if they keep on talking.

Unless it's about the national security stuff, about dealing with the odds of it.

Because, well, that's why the type of conversation differs.

Because it is about, it was about, the same things that we did.

That's why we discussed it.

It had to do with what he did at the White House, not what he did in Kansas City.

Right?

In this case.

That's right.

Not obstruction of justice.

It was a charge of justice.

It was a charge of justice on a charge not yet filed, which is not obstruction of justice.

The charge that he had burglarized and killed her.

What do you think of that?

I mean, we don't...

I mean, it's not called...

It's just what I call a package.

Well, the other thing is, you're dealing with the facts here.

You're looking at the actual things that were said.

He will be dealing with how he wants to construe those facts.

And that may not come out exactly the same way.

He may be telling his lawyers and maybe thinking in his own mind a lot worse than what really happened.

We may think the president instructed him to do this sort of thing and said we have to let this plan out or this sort of thing, which is not the case.

We've just explored cycles.

And we get to, I think, somewhere where he pressed those triggers.

I think then we may have to go out to state court and do it with somebody like the Chief Justice or something.

It's better to do your resolution.

That's the important part.

And then afterwards, after it was thorough,

He said, we will not.

There's no guidance.

We're not going to do anything.

Right?

And that, I guess, is what he said.

You don't get out.

Herman, Herman, to me, what I heard on that from Herman, he thought it was true.

Yeah.

Which surprised me, to be perfectly frank.

Because I thought Erland would be concerned about it, and he wasn't.

He really cold-talked it, to the extent that it surprised me very much.

And he checked with Krogh, who, see, this refreshes me now.

He thinks that they hear about Krogh being in terrible, real trouble.

And Erland says, I talked to Krogh, and he's in real trouble now.

And it's not, he was painting a crow that was being turned into a bag of beans and raised with balls, or it's a man that couldn't live with himself and hadn't slept a night.

It isn't true, but what does the patient know?

He said, all right, he says the crow has no problem.

He said it then, he says it now.

He talked to the crow, the crow's had two dollars of it.

Cranker, no, I guess it was the senator.

And that's true.

Absolutely true.

And we have a goddamn right.

We're gonna stick hard on that.

For that reason, maybe I just don't understand it, but I'm not at all sure that this full-out Brooklyn coming out is bad.

So, why do you say that?

Why do you say that?

I don't know why you say that.

Basically, the tape is the kind of product that you can really get down to an impressive amount of head and witness on a bench when you try to get back up.

You probably didn't know you were subject to it.

Why did you ever get any longer?

Because you've always seen this guy who's entangled in his... You've always picked out all the facts for it.

what the facts were, who was in it.

I had to find out about you.

And the thing that started with you is, and it did, clearly, was he said some people may go to jail.

And you said, who?

And he said, well, me.

And I said, and I really enjoyed it.

And you said, oh, hell no.

I mean, it was clearly, you could tell by listening to the tape, it started, it came as a blow to you.

You mean that he never told you before about this sort of thing?

A, he never told you before, and B, as soon as he told you that, a thought process starts in your mind, what the hell, you know, who am I dealing with here, what's going on?

Because you had always thought he was the dispassionate,

And you knew he was carrying the water on the road.

And talking to all our White House people.

But you didn't know he was preparing them for their sitting in their things and so forth, getting the FBI reports, making reports.

That was part of it.

When they talked about the load, I was not thinking basically about the load and taking care of the defendants.

The O.S.R.

told me that until this band of conversation.

Well, he made it.

Well, and that isn't the load that he was really carrying.

The load he was carrying was just carrying the whole thing on track instead.

So you had all these people lying and bouncing up and all sorts of different tales.

My daddy should have come to us earlier and said, I guess, somehow, somehow.

But Dean, Dean, he told you and John, he said, what the hell, all they're doing here is protecting John.

Correct?

And we got that too.

I said, this is all about that.

Why doesn't Mitchell get out?

Hello?

AG?

Yeah, I said AG.

Right.

I wanted to get anything further on the coast matter.

Okay, what?

Yeah, I probably .

Why don't I give you a call?

All I want to know is the procedure, you know.

Let me say, if 6-1 1⁄2 doesn't have a deck, as far as I'm concerned, let's get without that thing.

I'm out there.

Yeah.

That's right.

right, right, right, to the left, and we'll make the word by, as far as you're concerned, there's two possibilities.

I don't know the law, but you know what I mean.

Okay.

Oh yeah, how they're gonna handle it, whether now or after the majority.

Yeah, it'd be nice if they could convict him.

If they're going to convict him otherwise, it'd be too bad to do that.

Put this on top of it.

It'd work.

some of this stuff

You can also talk to me about a second story done with the Williams.

Because they didn't do it.

They had something in Georgetown, which they didn't do.

I didn't learn it before that.

I don't know.

What John is referring to when he gives this disclosure, he feels that he may have to disbelieve.

That's what he just told me in the book.

What, would he be six or seven?

No, the point was, no, no, not that, but that they, the story is that the, that Ehrlichman and the... Yeah, yeah.

About the report to the Times?

Oh yeah, go ahead, yeah.

Yeah.

the other thing that i was trying to tell you about is you know that uh you know this situation and uh

Don't you feel that other researchers actually did it?

I'm afraid, I don't know, I don't think I'm overreacting, but doesn't the other researchers have to really understand the relationship there, or how the analysts would want to think about it from an aviation point of view?

Well, that's my issue.

Yeah, well, we're not gonna have you kill us tonight, that's what I guess, I guess you're right, but I think the story's gonna,

What's Henry that we should do about?

Yeah.

Right.

All right.

Well, can I ask you and Peter to think a little about it?

We'll, uh, now, uh, the, uh...

Let me say though, I know this is one of those things that, believe me, I want the whole damn thing up, don't you?

I mean, tough as it is.

Well, sure, sure it's going to come up.

But Dick, Dick, for crying out loud, God damn it, these damn things happen.

I, as president, have got to get them out.

You know?

That's my responsibility.

My responsibility.

I'm going to tell you what I mean.

Fair enough.

All right.

Well, bye-bye.

Peterson, please.

I don't know how Ron is going to react to this thing tonight.

I think John shouldn't ask for a lead.

Look, he knew this was part of his vulnerability, right?

the part that's going on, but he absolutely would not, for Christ's sake, observe the turning over of the FBI.

Now, if you've got an FBI director that's out of his mind, that isn't really much of a problem.

But he said that because of the innuendo and the rest, he wanted to take the lead, but it was cleared out.

Well, then if that happens, then Bob, basically, Dean would have to, you would have to, but Dean would have to as well.

He should have been out a moment ago if you had followed up with him.

Hello.

Oh, I just wanted to, uh, I just, uh, I just wanted to get your reactions to how we, uh, how we handled the grade situation.

Do you want to pick him up overnight or should you react right away or what?

Okay.

Yeah.

But how can he really stay on?

But he should.

Let me ask you this, rather than minding it, but I suggest that you ask Dick.

I think, let's put it enough.

put it in a context where I, uh, I mean, I love him too, and I love all of you, but you know what I mean?

I want him to be sent away so that he doesn't like a man.

And, uh, would you, if you were in such a position, prefer to have him with a big friend?

Neva's casually doing a dumb thing.

I mean, why the hell would you start dancing?

I'll be damned.

I don't know.

I don't know what to think.

It's another part of the, well, any event.

Would you, would you, if you wouldn't mind, would you talk to my patient and say, look, talk to Pat and Pat.

Just a second here, just a second.

Somebody's coming in on the line.

Hold on, let me get to another call.

Hold on.

Does Peterson know why Gray destroyed him?

In other words, what Ziegler says ought to be guided, at least in part, by what the explanation Gray is going to give, you know, Peterson and his own basic messaging.

Next question.

Oh, yeah, I'm where I can talk now.

Well, the rough part that I was going to ask you about is that what in the world is Gray going to say?

If the Y is straight, you see, obviously Ziegler will be confident in that, isn't he?

Yeah.

Right.

That he had explicit comfort of the earth and being.

But, uh, well, he isn't, uh, you can't say that Ervin and Dean told him to destroy them.

I mean, why would they, I mean, you see, that story, uh, Henry wouldn't stand up for him.

I mean, part of it, you know, for him, for him, but why would, why would, for example, Ervin and Dean call the director of the FBI over and say, look, there's a document destroyed, and why the hell did they destroy themselves?

Well, and that he's going to, and that is what basically he's going to say, or as he said it.

Yeah.

Yeah, that he was told, he says, that these were documents that were wholly unrelated to this, to the fire game, and that they should be destroyed.

But that, that, you know, I don't, I mean, if he leaves,

And so forth and so on.

For him to, for him to say that, uh, that, that, frankly, this, this, this story, in my view, simply doesn't, doesn't bring what is then quite true.

Why, why would the world, with the, with being and order,

call the director of the FBI and the documents, and say, take them, because they're not related to Watergate, and destroy them.

You see my point?

That's a screwball.

That's a screwball screw.

I know he was there in another matter, but that's a screwball screw.

So it's being dealt with.

Yeah.

Dean says a hurricane told Dean to destroy it.

Well, that's the so-called Deep Six thing, right?

Well, I don't know.

I'm not going to try to tell anybody to change the story and so forth.

That is what I want, and I understand that we want the truth, but I just can't believe, I just can't believe that anybody, I can't really believe that anybody's going to believe that the director of the FBI was handed some documents and told to destroy them.

You brought it to me.

My God, yes.

And then he did.

I mean, he started them.

I mean, I bet Edgar Hoover got every doodle that anybody ever had around somewhere in his file.

Right?

When will Ray make a statement?

This is the guidance of our people here.

Well, I'll tell you what, yeah, I'll tell you what to do, because basically, how far I want to get into this depth, and I don't know, but I mean, I heard this, this insane story, but let's see if that, on this, what should, what should Ziegler say, let me just say that, that's what you're doing.

I just feel that that's our problem.

He said, well, we can't say that we didn't, I mean, we had some, you know, we've, in other words, our investigation is the one that we've been undertaking since the 21st of March.

We have information about this, but we haven't had the damn thing corroborated, you know what I mean?

I've never, I've been, I mean, let me put it this way.

Pat Gray has never told me this.

he's told you this, remember, he first told you, as I remember him, that nobody ever got him, and then later on he said, yeah, I got some, but I destroyed him, right?

So he's in sort of a tough position there.

Although, on the other hand, that's something that I guess you're going to investigate, and he may have forgotten.

I see.

It was a casual conversation, I see.

Right.

Yeah.

And the next day, he said, he refreshed his recollection and said, yes, I did get the documents and I was true to the destruction.

That's what Pat Gray now says.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Well, I don't believe that.

I don't know whether...

You see, the point is, when you say that, uh, that the Dean and Dickson, uh, Dean Simpson and so forth, you haven't had Earthman.

It means you haven't had that corroborated death, because basically, uh, Earthman was in the room when this happened, and Earthman, of course, knows, uh, uh, uh, and, uh, I'm gonna have to talk to him about this and ask him.

But the point that I have, the point that I make is this.

whether, does Dean corroborate Gray's story?

That's what I'd like to know.

Does Dean say that in the presence of Ehrlichman, that he or Ehrlichman or both told Gray these are politically sensitive, unrelated to Watergate, and they would be destroyed?

Does Dean say that?

That's the whole point, to say, I think.

i don't uh well let me say let me say let me let me say this uh on this for your information because i've questioned dean you know about this

Yeah, you know, after, uh, after we had your car talked, I said, I said, listen, uh, he just said, I, we handed the documents, we gave the documents to Gray, and that's, you know what I mean?

And, uh, but that was that.

He didn't say, but he never said, we told him to destroy them.

You see my point?

Because L.D.

isn't going to, well, let's, let me put it this way.

Assuming he had, why the hell is he going to implicate himself in such a thing as that?

Because that's Gray taking her out for it.

Yeah.

Yeah, and he did it.

Right, right.

That's right.

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

Right, right.

Yeah, I see, I see.

But that was not done.

incidentally can i ask uh without reviewing the content did you get to the bottom of the shepherd mystery okay yeah okay oh yeah

Exactly.

Oh, I mean, Reese might have thought that I was putting out the transcripts, huh?

Yeah.

Well, let me say this.

One of the, one of the things that your record, my record is clear on is I give this swear in the, in the Stagg Bible that I have, in fact, I've probably been over more bankers than most people that have come to this.

But no, I'm a rancher, and I do not want to know.

I know.

I, I, that I'm,

by direction.

All right.

On the grade, it seems to me that the grade

you should have your vehicle grade immediately to three or two don't have him make a statement however until uh until uh i don't know whether he should do a make one tonight uh you know what i mean i'm not sure i would react that soon but i don't know but uh at least that would fix me maybe we shouldn't act tonight but i think that under the circumstances that the destruction document or even though it's done with mobile uh this is

This is stupidity of the unbelievable, uh, uh, and that, uh, probably, uh, you'll have to deny it.

And, uh, which would be the best, you know, who's the second man over there?

So, yeah.

So not permanently.

No, no, it's got to be cleaned out.

It's got to be cleaned out.

But my point is, my point is, this is not the time.

This is not the time.

I'm not ready to name Gray's successor.

I'm still searching, you know.

And so therefore, but the point is that Gray leaves.

Huh?

Yeah.

But the point that I want to make is that Gray leaves.

to succeed gray i've got to do it on the basis of you know an acting director at this point and uh can you have a meeting with uh

yeah yeah he's got to think about it and uh and he should make it i don't think that gray should pop off of the statement tonight on the thing uh does that doesn't that make sense yeah after all because basically he's going to have to say what the situation is now what is your suggestion as to what the

Anybody else?

I mean, isn't it best to simply say we're investigating the matter?

I mean, after all, this is one of the things you are investigating, isn't it?

This whole Van Diep 6 thing.

Remember, I told you to look into this and find out what you haven't, you haven't even, you, well, as a matter of fact, you haven't even had Dean's statement under oath yet, have you?

And you haven't had our evidence under oath.

So, it's, you know, all the things sort of tell us more.

Yeah.

Well, finally, one thing else.

What about your meeting with Dean?

Is it about time to get that done, get this thing rolling?

Or how does that stand?

When are you going to meet with him?

He's adjourned.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

The problem I have with this is, you see, the problem I have is that you say, well, what do you do about earth?

What do you do about deep?

You see what I mean?

You see?

So therefore, the point is that, yeah, I don't know.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

What I'm referring to, though, is in terms of...

of when we're going to get.

Now, I understand, following our conversation, that the attorneys for Haldeman and Hurley are going to meet with the U.S. attorneys and arrange for a first, the informal interview, which you suggested was the proper procedure.

That's going to be done very soon, I understand, by these folks, and perhaps five months later, at least, so we can have a better label.

Then, shall we get that on board?

And then, of course, they'll be available to the grantors after they've had that meeting.

But getting back to the Dean thing, it seems to me that you've got to get Dean in there, too, there.

I mean, you've got to decide the Dean thing.

Let me just say one thing.

That on that, the decision is yours if he comes to you.

But don't be concerned about what he calls any, what do you call it, the Trump car, or blackjack, and so forth.

There's not going to be any black man here.

And don't you agree?

What's that?

Right.

Or McGritter, did Dean start it very early?

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Yeah, you want Dean to plead.

Yeah.

Now you got a cake.

That's right.

Yeah.

I'm not trying to tell you how to run the case.

The only thing I'm trying to see is how I can still sit here with the United Congressmen, or all of the problem actually, as you said, but I also have to wrestle with Dean's problem, because I'm aware of the information that you are, and I agree in arm's length conversation.

But I'm aware of this conversation, see, and I cannot move until, uh, without frankly jeopardizing the order of the prosecution, can I?

Oh, uh, if it isn't Trump, I mean, the point is, uh, if you're... All right, then I'll wait for you, but, uh, I would say that, uh, that, uh, Dean's decision ought to be made soon, and, uh,

But remember, there's going to be a black male or something of that sort, or I want to follow those damn things.

And I want you to really understand that we're going to be concerned about black men in any way we can.

Not the president, you can be sure.

The president's men, we all know that they drive a little of that.

And you may say, well, they all knew about the cover-up and so forth.

All right, fine.

But don't let a black male view, don't you be a bit concerned.

I mean, Dean, let me put it out there, Dean now has about as much, I'm afraid, to do with what has happened here.

He has got about as much credibility as, as Magruder, which ain't much.

That's the problem.

Yeah.

That's right.

Well, let me know about it.

The solution to that.

When I go to the testicle lab, we'll get Gray off in a corner alone and say, you son of a bitch, you can't walk like that.

If he won't do it, maybe he has to do it.

And Gray, and what you have to do is not tell him what to say, often say, Pat, I'm astonished at what I'm told you're going to say.

I don't believe it.

And I want you to tell me, is that true?

Well, here is the problem.

The thing that, of course, is the loose cannon out there is, again, the story of the dean.

Yeah.

The dean.

And so he says he gets the story of Erland told, you know, the story about him.

More than that, I thought Dean's story was that I said that, but he thought better of it.

So he did.

And they gave him the grain.

And so they gave him the grain.

And he stole it.

Yeah.

Should I move on?

This doesn't fit that.

Sure.

Mind it, please.

On the other side of the road, you might want to use the acquaintance.

Is there a call to Ray at home Sunday night at 1045 about the envelope question?

And Ray said, John, I'm going to say I didn't know anything about it.

He said, yeah.

I said, we didn't deny it.

I said, Dean has talked about the delivery of the documents, and he said, you can't let him say that.

And I said, well, Peggy's already said it.

He said, well, I'll deny it.

And he said, you've got to back me up.

And then I called back, remember, four minutes later.

Well, whatever it was.

He was sitting right here.

All right.

I called him back a little while and said, Pat, I can't leave our previous conversation alone.

You can't deny it because I'm going to have to back up Dean when he says he's lured.

What you said is you must tell the truth, Pat.

You've got to state the facts.

Don't get cross-wise on this.

The problem is, what is Dean going to say about this today?

That's the point.

That's what the hell he says about this.

See, we haven't got anybody to talk to yet.

Say lured.

I suggested, Ron, that you talk to me and say you want to talk to you first.

Yeah.

And Gray said to you in that second conversation that he didn't know where the papers came from.

He denied that he knew where they came from.

He said that he did build it and that he destroyed it.

And he put the thing down in the football shop saying he destroyed it.

Yeah, I know.

You showed me here and said, well, there goes my career.

Wow.

It's totally not funny.

It sure is.

Oh, I like it.

I saw the expression.

I mean, I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it.

I've been thinking about this problem quite a bit at the Grace Center, and I think we're talking about it.

At Grace, two statements from Peter C. There's a reason why Peter C. is still investigating the case.

As you say, all the witnesses have been called against him.

Yeah.

Hello.

Are you aware you can talk?

Yeah.

One thing I think is very important, perhaps, and I'll be able to talk to Matt Gray,

A story to the effect, and I'm talking all about the truth, a story to the effect that he came over to Ehrlichman's office and received documents and was told by Ehrlichman and or Dean to destroy them.

First, it's not true.

That is to say, what happened is basically that he was handed the documents

And then the stupids saw, did, and told them they were not related to one another, but they were political, uh, documents, politically, uh, uh, documents, and they were related unto him.

Now, it, it seems to me that the grave, that Frank, if he just walks out and says, I mean, he's not as bad as it is, but if he walks out and says,

something that is not true, because Erlikon is not that, in my talk with Dean, in my talk with what Dean will say now, I don't know, but my talk with Erlikon, which I know that the guy's true, they handed him the document, and I remember that when this matter came up,

Earl and Carl, you see, it's a serious decision on the background.

Peterson first called Patrick and said, did you have any, did you receive such documents?

And Gray denied having ever received them.

Denied employment.

Then finally said he refreshed his memory.

He said, yes, he received them, but he struggled.

Well, now, the point is, I...

Erwin called Gray also and said, Pat, what about those envelopes that you got?

And Pat, of course, which, of course, he denied receiving.

He said, you remember that you got them.

And he said, where the hell are they?

And he said, I destroyed them.

And Perlin was part of the shock, and I'm sure Dean was part of the shock.

Although what Dean was saying, I don't know.

There was discussion, you know, Dean said there was some discussion about we ought to get, we ought to destroy the documents and hunt states that had nothing to do with Watergate and so forth.

But the point was, it was not done.

It was handed to Gray, and Gray destroyed it.

But the critical point is this, that for the director of the FBI,

It's bad enough for him to say, I took the documents and I destroyed them because they weren't related in any cases yet, and I didn't really have political material there.

That's bad enough.

But if he says that I destroyed them because I was ordered to, can you imagine what that makes him look like?

And I think, I want you to have a heart-to-heart talk with him on that point.

Because I don't want him to be made to appear a liar.

So, uh, are you going to leave it up to him?

Yeah, all right.

Okay.

All right, fine.

All right, you call me back.

All right.

Well, crisis of the day, crisis of the hour.

Sir?

We did all these other things that had something to do with it.

Right, yeah.

Well, I don't know when the times will run the story in the morning.

Oh, I suppose so, sir.

Yeah.

And who'd they get it from, do they know?

It's all over town, aren't they?

Timber Truitt.

And are they referring to the fact that, are they saying, are they using in the story the fact that Ehrlichman and Dean and or Dean ordered greater destruction?

It doesn't say ordered.

Told him to destroy.

It doesn't say told.

It says he destroyed.

It doesn't.

After a meeting.

That's right.

Truitt, uh,

And his comments indicated that it was actually written in the Word.

He also referred to the fact that the material was forged documents explaining Kennedy for the assassination of the nephew.

He did.

Well, that's, I think, probably what it was.

I don't know if that's true.

But does anybody know what the hell the documents were?

The only person I know who has ever said that that's what it was is John Dean.

Somebody has seen those documents.

Somebody has gotten those things out.

And it's not right to be with someone.

What does he tell us?

Does anybody talk to him?

He told me the feelings are about him and that they involved the assassination of him.

Yeah.

I guess he did.

He said that among them was, he said there was a bunch of very bad political stuff.

Among them was some phony document saying that Kennedy had engineered the assassination of him.

Well, he never wrote that.

I would think this.

It would be an important person for, uh, you have not reacted yet.

I agree.

Now, the point is, should John, whatever the situation is that he knows about it, should Dean act?

Lawyer question.

John, say we're getting queries on it, and the question is, I'd just like to know what your

I don't know how you do that.

I got that.

I got that from you.

I just want to find you.

Pliny stole it, and Peterson don't tell you.

Peterson, Pliny, he stole it.

So you could just say it's going around that, that the Graves, you know, the third version, the Graves version is that he was ordered to be struggled.

By Dean.

And that that's what the story is about now.

Throw it back to him, that one, and say, was that the case, or did he just hand it to him?

Well, that's what it is.

Yes, sir.

I just want to get, I just want to know what he's going to say.

I'm just trying to find out.

Say, John, and Tom, we're not going to, we don't comment stories here.

Don't comment on it from here.

Not now.

Ask him not to say anything without telling him at first.

And ask him to.

Okay, let me just start here.

In the last 10 days, I have not been checking with Dean about how he responds.

I see.

But I will always ask him to do it.

Well, this is different.

This isn't just a Dean story.

This is one that involves being an aneurysm, Greg.

That's the problem with John.

Just say, John, the only purpose of this is to...

What is his recollection?

I'd just like to know.

And Dr. Ron?

Yes, sir?

Under no circumstances did he say that the director of the president... No, no, we can't.

Well, let's see what we can do.

John, I told Bob what you're suggesting, and he said, well, we can't do that.

You know, this is going to be part of the case again, and if somebody makes the case, we'll react to it and so forth.

That was Frank Strickland's reaction.

He was Frank Strickland, our number two lawyer.

But he said, he said he just, he effectively had to, and it ain't a word about it, and it was not that big a deal.

So it was a big deal for Pat Gray, you know, being able to give, to be in a, to be in a position.

Well, he thinks you should put a position on it.

That's what we're talking about.

I sent a copy of this over to him, and I'm saying that we can talk about it before it's released.

We want to talk about it.

Did Peterson say that when he talked to Gray the first time that it was a casual conversation and he does not hold that against Stephen or something of that effect?

He said, yes.

He said that Gray was very casual.

He gasped it twice.

In fact, Quindy told me that Gray denied twice that she had gotten the document.

He denied it twice.

And then finally refreshed his recollection and said, yes, I got it.

But as Peter said, I appreciate that.

i get it appreciated you mean uh uh defend gray yeah no no no no he just says he says he just he's just got his tail in this thing and it's just one of those goddamn things

It hasn't been to the grand jury.

It either has to be the Justice Department or Dean.

that I meant by the justice department, the prosecuting team, the lawyers, the prosecuting team, and I'm doubtful that the court is going to vote on this.

Give this one a call.

Secretary says.

If he destroyed them because he was ordered to,

He's got to maybe destroy them.

Because of stupidity.

He's got to go either way.

See, my point is, it's potentially evidence.

Right?

The material was given to him as director of the FBI in sufficient capacity.

It's identified as sensitive materials not related to the case at hand.

The purpose of giving them to him, obviously, was to have them retained.

Sure.

He went out and destroyed it.

The guy is a freaking idiot.

That's right.

That's exactly what happened.

That's the truth of the matter.

And when we were in front of him, he asked me a lot.

He said he was going to allow an interview to corroborate his lie.

That's right.

And never, interestingly enough, never said, but you told me to destroy it.

That's right.

No, no, that's new.

Which would have been the normal reaction if I had called back if I had said, Patrick, I have to tell the truth.

If, in fact, he believed I had instructed him, he would have said, but, you know, so-and-so, so-and-so.

You've got pretty good whips to that conversation.

There's one of them I can use.

You can use that one.

I'm not sure I'm any good anymore.

If he goes, I think... Is there anybody else over there?

Okay, Ron.

Okay.

Thank you.

Do you have anything else you want to ask about?

All right.

I'd rather put somebody like that in.

Right?

You want to do it for a couple of months, but, you know, he's clean.

And, uh, I was with his political coalition.

New York for both.

Is he a campaigner?

Do you read it out as a campaign word?

Or do you just... We're probably in because of qualifications way, way back when he had campaign law.

Final thoughts?

Yeah.

For us?

Sure.

Yeah.

So he has political toleration.

Yeah, but I'm not, that point is, I'm not, we're not putting him in there for, we're not going to send him for confirmation.

We're just thinking of somebody temporary and nobody else for confirmation.

Well, you could bring somebody like this James Q. Wilson from Harvard temporarily.

I think we're standing in the face of the only temporary that we're not considering on a full-time basis.

It really ought to be somebody.

He brought us out of this for a couple of months, but did he believe in us?

Well, he'd been thinking of him even as a possibility for the job, too.

Right, right.

He probably wouldn't be interested in this apartment thing when he would be in it, so, you know, I wouldn't think for everything, maybe.

Well, I don't know what he's trying to prove by this.

The way the story came from at times was that Gray had told friends about it, but that's a standard to be on at times.

Can I say, John, can I see what you have in mind?

Sure.

Bob's changed this, and I'll read it to you, if I could.

It's a person for the court.

Mr. Gray received some of the contents of a hunt safe at Mr. Irwin's office with Mr. Dean in June 1972.

Mr. Dean had previously sealed the water during the war.

Mr. Gray was told by Mr. Dean that the contents were sensitive materials, not in any way related to the Watergate case.

Mr. Hogan was present, but neither then nor at any other time did he give Mr. Gray any request, suggestion, or instruction regarding what should be done with the contents.

Mr. Hogan does not know the nature of the contents.

Up until April 15, Mr. Hogan assumed the FBI director still had the contents.

The government discovered certain new facts concerning the contents of the hunt safe on April 15, 1973.

The property reported his findings to the president the same day as they were relayed to Mr. Peterson, his sister's friend, John.

The matter has been under investigation by him since.

Correct.

Instead of the facts concerning the contents, it would be concerning the status of the contents.

Correct.

Contrary to the current position in the Congress or something.

You know, the status of attorney, the status of the Congress.

The disposition.

Yeah.

Oh, the disposition of the weather guard.

Yeah.

We've got to figure that out.

We've got to figure it out.

We've got to figure out how to push names.

We've got to figure it out.

Why don't you just print out the statement yourself, John?

Fine.

I think it's the best time.

I think it's best that you do that rather than that, because Ron should stay in the militia, and I'm not going to comment on his case and so forth and so on.

The protest office is still going to ask Jerry Warren to put the honest statement right down here, right?

Yeah.

That's what I said.

I earned it.

The domain is available to the judge, if you take any of the advice from the situation.

I did not tell you that.

No.

He was taking any of the advice from the situation that you've got.

Bug in there and put it in the break-in.

Did I understand from your conversation that they're still trying to get Dean to make a guilty plea?

But they do seem to.

.

And the Bruder record resents very much Dean having coaxed you into this purpose.

Yeah, yeah.

That's...Dean, you can slide over everything else, but that, I can't see any.

Alright.

So they're still talking, they're lawyers, in regard to what Dean is going to do.

And I guess Dean locked this kind of stuff in.

Call the police.

What did you just say?

Well, you can't do it.

You can't do it.

You can't be.

I can't be.

You're not friends with what you cannot be.

And, uh, I'd like to wipe that oil over your face.

Why don't you ask me a question?

I had better call and re-dictate this than I could change this.

I think I better give this some advice.

Yeah, would you like to re-dictate it to the secretary?

Yeah.

I wonder if it changes our situation, God, without medical therapy or medical treatment.

I wonder if it builds a barrage.

There's no way Bob I can trick this on the bench.

You heard what I told you.

I said, get him in.

So I got him in 15 minutes as well.

I was clearly talking to the lawyers and trying to get him to leave.

I want to understand that.

Why did you have to get him to leave?

Why didn't you just sit down and call him in?

What happened?

I wonder if it's well, or maybe we shouldn't have rock felled.

Stay there, please.

Yeah, hold on, you're being called.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

He either, this is a pretty, you know, I mean, you can't, you know, it's not deadly, it's damaging, but not here.

Unless Gray decides to take this, this part, and he tries to, he goes out after it.

Terribly damaged, because it shattered the FBI, I don't know what happened.

But that's inevitable.

In fact, you can't undo that.

No matter what they're going to say.

Even if he was ordered to destroy them, he didn't, because it's chapter 10.

I, this is one I totally believe in.

I am absolutely convinced he did not tell Greg to destroy it.

Did Dean, did you ever ask Dean if he ever had discussed this before?

Yeah.

And Dean, I had discussed it with him.

He told me about it.

Well, this is one that he considered one of his greatest truths.

Now, he does say that Irving told him to destroy it, but he didn't do it.

But he says, I was too smart for that.

I figured out how to do it, which is to put it in the hands of Pat Gray, and then it's at the FBI, but it's in a sealed envelope that won't be used by these bastards who are leaving stuff out of the FBI.

It's in the director's office in secret files.

He thought that was an absolute masterstroke.

He went back, and as I understand it, it was a masterstroke.

It was a much better idea than just running.

And that's history.

I have no reason to believe our enemy did tell us to destroy it.

I don't care if it's designed to destroy it.

But, well, the gray area is down the deep end.

But then it thought through that it should destroy it.

And so it figured out that the way to avoid destroying it was to turn it over to the gray area.

It would turn the other stuff over to the FBI agents, but they can't do this.

They can see it's not the local gray area.

I really don't think these photos distract a lot of people.

That would be an interesting food for thought.

Dean H. Gray.

I don't think he will.

I think Dean's interested.

If you want to get great, there's an awful good way to get great.

But what he's saying is that I can come and destroy the dumb son who visited by himself.

Well, you've been through it all.

You've been through the stuff that went with Mark Schneider's death.

And to be quite honest with you, that is, assuming that that is his front car, do you assume that is his front car?

No.

You don't think that's his front car?

What the hell do you think his front car is talking to you about?

I would guess it is.

No, on this one.

On this one.

Encouraging part about it is, the latter one that you read me today, is the same thing you made about this.

If you recall it quite categorically, we went through all the options, and I said this one would, this one would, this one would.

And if you go, if you go to the assumption of the absolute worst, I would say yes, this is the worst Trump Party's done.

And it is his Trump.

And he plays with it.

I don't think it closes any problems.

Because I don't think they can do it.

In the first place, I think it's offensive.

But in the second place, I don't think it's...

I don't see how they can do anything with it anyway.

They know it's needed.

The other thing I think is a little public is that...

a better scheme for it against the others.

Thank you.

I don't know.

So he does have that, but I would have to put out the whole story.

And if you were investigating this thing, if you were drawing an email, if you went through a whole series of questions and alternatives and pushed him to drive off, draw off lines.

Yeah.

When this matter came up, I told you it would be honest.

When this matter came up, I made a line.

I noticed that I made a line.

I think what we have to say is this is an act of a desperate man.

That's exactly right.

If you're the president and he's all about being a dick, you have to move all out to destroy him.

If he puts that out, then you've got to destroy him totally, Chuck.

You can't worry about nuances at night.

Because then he's shot his whole block.

And I think he can't.

I think I can't do it.

I'll do the raising of the tender.

One other question.

Should Margaret have talked with me?

Well, I don't know.

I don't know to what end.

I don't know to see if there's any.

Just for the purpose of saying, John, I'm going to be a man that enters the fray.

I don't know what to do with that.

I don't like that.

Bill, I think I know there's one man here who has been your friend and has believed in you.

I don't know what to do with that.

Maybe so.

As long as you don't lose weight, I will never say that.

If you can't, I think, if you can't think anymore over foods to pacify heat, because I think you now make a record that you can't lose weight.

Thank God they are what they always make, but nevertheless, they're done.

We can't, but I think, why shouldn't more, maybe more good, give more of a chance for it to exist?

Do you know what it means?

Do you know the answer?

I don't hear a hint from you.

Well, they're not trying to get more.

That's the future.

If Moore's going to do it, I'm afraid he went past it.

He hasn't been able to take anything.

I mean, I'm asking your judgment as to whether or not he's going to do it.

And if he doesn't, I think you've got to say, you've got to ask him to do it without being the reason why.

I'll just help my sister, Moore.

Sure.

And it may be that you have that energy at work, in a position to be able to say to the President, Tony, you had a dream, and reminded him that he was his friend.

Why?

Well, we've got to dig into what he was saying.

Well, of course, you should be instructed not to say that you chose to do it.

Or, are we doing it on purpose?

I think that's one thing I've lost out of this, is trusting anybody.

I'm used to trying to figure out who you can trust and who you can't, so it's that way.

Except me, who's got a trust in me.

All I do, I'm not trying to find any of these others, but I have now decided I have no trust in anybody.

I can't trust anybody.

I've got to, I have a mercy, I've got to take it.

I've got to trust him.

I'm not going to trust him with anything further.

.

I think, I think so.

I mean your lawyers still think that, uh, even on the, uh, the cover-up deal.

Yeah.

So the view is that, in my position, is that there is nobody on Earth, that nobody discussed that matter.

No, sir, I didn't discuss it with John, except John Dean.

There is no way Dean can corroborate anything related to me.

There is no way that the prosecutor can corroborate anything.

Getting back to what I said, getting back to what I said, and I never said to Dean anything that gives him the right to say that.

What about Belief?

Oh, that's right.

Very good.

Here we go.

i've been tempted by the weekend to be perfectly frank because i don't i have a different code basic problem right now i either have to take the lead or you've got to write the show or i'm going to get back and start running this place there god damn right this is the point henry made he said if you're going to stay here you've got to start issuing some orders and cracking some heads and start banging things around because you can't just stay here

I know about it.

That's John's problem.

To be honest, I haven't been attacking him today, but I know his mind could not really, you know, concentrate on it very much.

That's the real problem.

And it's damn hard to do what you get, you know, every afternoon.

You know, you just sit here going, you don't know what it's going to be, but you know goddamn well the phone's going to ring and the speaker's going to say, guess what, we're back for Tony tomorrow.

I get it every night at home.

I got a call from him last night and said, where do I have to go?

He said, I hate to disappoint you, but there is a point.

I'll tell you, to me, the lead is very tempting.

It bothers the lawyers.

Not nearly as much as the resignation.

Because the resignation, they say, we think you really cut it off.

The lead basically would be, let me spit it out the way I would do it.

The way I would say it.

Because of the charges that have been paid and so forth.

And first I get, I would put out an opinion.

uh...

and so forth, but in May, the work continues to be made, leads to the grand jury, the story, the press, and so forth and so on.

My ability to protect the office and the function of the issue, which I have been seriously preparing, and I feel under the circumstances that, you know, the proper first action is to allow you to take the right decision to take a loop until

or until, until I am taken care of, or any other, as a character, or any other long-going being of a person, I can take or leave the issue of insistence on my own.

We want to get better at it.

We ought not to do that.

That's just why I don't think we're going to do this.

I just don't think so.

He's going to control it.

It's not going to give you any information.

First, Dean's going to say one of two things.

He'll either say, well, one, Ehrlichman told him to destroy it, which would be false.

And then you'll have to say that you're up against two people.

Why?

Or he's going to say, that great line, did not not, did not not destroy.

Let's just let it develop.

And the times are now that we have something from him already.

Now, Ron feels strongly that should not come out of his arms.

Yeah.

We'll do that later.

Yeah, I just can't do it.

Yeah.

He says you're not going to settle it in the first story regardless of what happens.

Well, he said if there's any evidence of a White House order, he said that's going to back the headlines so big that you'll never settle it in any state that you plan on anything.

Yeah.

So, uh...

I'm ready to go on this, and I just defer to your attention as to how to put it out.

Obviously, I would rather put it out from here.

This is where my office is.

This is where I'm doing business.

But I don't ask particularly to vouch for it.

I just put out a posting of a statement about a governor that they've run it open with many of us, and just take it out of the way.

It doesn't say office of the press secretary or anything like that.

The point is, why don't you just give it to the, just call in the New York Times reporter, give it to him.

You could call up the name, and just say, if you put a girl on, I'll dictate my state.

Yeah, that's the way I think I'd do it.

or I give them a copy of it as I gave it to the Times.

And then if they get angry, they say, well, we got a copy of the statement you gave us at the Times.

That's right.

So they didn't put a United Direct line of answer, which is probably, that's certainly what we've been doing as individuals, answering like, if the television reported about a human injury,

Okay, that's what I'm doing.

I better go and do that.

I don't want to set a deadline.

All right, fine, do that.

I'm going to try to get all the people on it because he's a decent guy.

I've got to say, if you put something on, I'll dictate my statement.

In this case, we appreciate you running it.

Yeah, I will.

Just ask me on a personal basis.

Yeah, I'll do that.

All right, John.

Crack it good.

How would you do that on a meeting call?

Would you bring someone in and take over the role?

I think you have to.

Maybe it's a cold, or a hurricane, or a bad job, or a rush, or something like that.

I think it's the automatic, the bug, the rush, the rush.

The New York Times has it all solved, and they're carrying it around.

We've already made people.

What are they running?

Seriously.

Yeah, I wanted to have your talk with Patrick, yeah.

Let me say, let me say this.

The one thing here I think, the more I think about this, it is totally devastating because I have checked my notes and what Dean has told everybody here.

I'm also on this and Erling has put out his own statement.

Pat Gray, Henry, was not

You must not say that.

That's better.

You see, that's going to compound it, particularly due to the fact that he had two conferences where he didn't even remember getting them.

He's the only thing that, you see, if he's really, you've got to put it to him quite personally.

I don't want to do it myself, but necessarily I will.

But he can't do that because I would have to say bye to him.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

Fine.

But let me say, no, no.

to say, look, you understand, it doesn't help him anymore, and it hurts terribly here, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Just as a result of it.

I understand, but what do you do about being that?

Where does that come from?

On Gray?

Well, I'm not suggesting that Gray would go.

We don't have to do that in the first thing.

That's just based on this one story.

Is that what you're suggesting?

Well, I'm going to think about it.

I agree.

I agree, but he's got a right to his day in court, too.

And we don't have another thing.

I don't have a substitute.

Not yet?

Okay.

He says, I just don't see how you can have prayer go and others not go too.

Well, hey, hey, Jesus, I wouldn't understand that.

I mean, it's just somewhat, for some reason, he's obsessed with our leaving him.

Well, because he hates everything, everything.

You've got to know what you're going to say about me.

I said, yeah.

No, I said, what about D?

He said, well, I said, you can't.

I said, you can't.

I said, if you're going to say it to somebody else, it's just, uh, there's something like, if you have to figure out what his motivation is, what does he want to get out of that?

I'll tell you.

That's his case.

Well, it broke and it goes out.

He's got one hell of a problem with Peterson.

He's a drug addict.

He's hell-bent to destroy Peterson.

But Peterson's literally great.

He's a good guy.

See, John's convinced that Peterson's out to get him.

Because...

And then the Justice Department blew up on him because John tried to make good readers along with everybody else.

And he's the one guy, one of the few who failed.

He was in the reorganization plan.

And, uh, my needs may be a lot of times, too.

And, he doesn't want to leave from that.

So I have a feeling maybe that's his motivation.

He's trying to get John out of here.

knows that if John stays in here and survives this, the leaders should never let him survive.

So what do you think?

I'll be back.

frankly we need to i i i guess i need to reach this with that i mean i don't including but i know that's probably the problem we have i mean i i really can't i can't call her and she's worried about other things and so forth you know it matters of that sort and by the way

I've got to put the burden on somebody else for the stuff they're already doing.

Obviously you can do it.

Well, that explains true good.

The other thing you can do is, is put the burden to someone else.

And then just leave them here.

Let them maintain a facade of a few hours a day of, you know, substantive stuff to, you know, help her keep it going.

You know, for me to try and do the same.

I really feel, I don't know, I'm trying to feel it.

I agree with that.

I feel better and it worked better.

I have a hell of a time because I lose all the facilities and everything else.

And you lose that fear that you may still be here, which is a damn important fear to have in mind to the prosecutors and other people.

Once I'm, once I'm retired.

Well, that's what I believe.

Believe.

Some people ask, and I say, once this thing is, is, uh, is, uh, is cleared, that's fine.

And then, that leads the carrier through the trial.

That's what I want to do.

The goddamn trial.

And after that, you may want to resign.

That's right.

You probably will.

And my guess is, you'll say, Christ, I've got enough of this shit.

The different ways, right?

Why don't you come back in a different way?

We can come back to you with a different perspective and a totally different view.

Totally different, so yeah.

Try it.

And, uh... Can you just work on a broader basis?

Of course, you know, in other words, after the...

It's not a policy.

You can never use me.

That's never a policy.

It's a political thing.

But no, that's what I really want you for, frankly, is not a government.

I really want you.

I'm getting a little sense of this here now.

Sure.

You're the kind of person who got that foundation.

No.

But maybe you don't want to do that.

No, I don't know.

I don't know what you're saying.

What are you saying?

No.

Well, I would say, we'll see.

But you can do something else and go.

I mean, there are other things.

No, there was nothing that required confirmation.

No.

Well, I don't want to say no.

Huh?

I have no interest in saying no.

When you said you'd come back and do something else in the White House, that would be the only place, but not as deep as that.

You'd come back as...

I want to do it because I think I get out of the mainstream and I'm lost just like Bryce does.

I think he's totally right.

But anyway, that's going to cross that bridge.

But my point is, the league, it seems to me, becomes really imperative in this day and time.

Nobody could even come to them.

I mean, it's a period of running morale, everything else, you know what I mean?

It isn't anything just to say if the president's cut, there's losses, he's not cut.

It's very difficult to cut.

And the point is, it isn't really that, but I really feel it's the standpoint of running.

If you've got to get some money,

If you guys run, that's good.

That's a lot.

And I could get Rush to try to run in two minutes.

I don't know.

I guess he's one of the people up here that's not sure how it's going to be.

And so let me ask you this.

What about Bill Casey?

Do you think he'd be better than Rush?

Russia would be easier for you to work with.

The point about it is that Russia's got a lot of class.

Basically, he's a middle cleaner.

He's a lot like you.

He's more of somebody's cleaner.

In case he's kind of dirty.

I think he's sort of political.

Russia is totally apolitical, which I like.

Crow is perfect for the current government.

And what I meant is, he's going to have to grow out a lot, but the cold is very good.

And he's just going to have to, I don't know, do the whole thing.

In fact, I talked to the chief of staff, and one of the views of your situation is that you've got your organization of partners in the church.

You've got Burrell on your campus, and now that I used to go out and do them, he's doing a hell of a job.

He really is.

um

They operate the paperwork and all that.

Carolina is just superb.

He's a young guy, but he's got his stuff done.

And he's doing it all anyway.

I don't believe in it.

I accept it.

I don't think we're doing it with regard to anything.

He would want us to, I suppose.

I don't want to have a problem around the problem area there.

You probably ought to get him out.

See what I mean?

The ground is the problem area.

I think you ought to get him out just because they'll call him as a witness.

They could be something.

If I'm only a witness, they won't call me.

If I'm a target, they'll call me.

That's bad.

You brought a guy like Rush in here.

What you can do with this is that you can let him be stay on the leave basis, let him stay until the brain cures, until you determine whether you're going to give it back to the resident.

At least leave the brain rushing.

Fair enough.

That's the way I would like it to be.

That gets us away from the end of the range.

You're not invited to come back.

Oh, we're going to have to say basically that.

We don't know what the answer is.

We don't know the answer.

But the point is, we want to be clear with these judges that that means the grand jury, the committee, everything else.

I put it all out there, you know what I mean?

You've got to go before that damn committee at some point.

And you wouldn't want to come back here and then have to go before the committee from here.

So really, that's what it's going to be.

And I did that earlier in this case, so I think he has to go through that.

I agree.

I don't want to.

If you justify things in the contrary, you don't need to support it.

You've got to let go, and then you can tell.

Believe.

Or you can't go on.

Yeah.

Then there must not be time for us to break it off.

Yeah, you may get to that point.

Oh, what does a flood disaster allow you to do?

Because you normally would, yeah.

I think if you normally would go, you should.

If you normally wouldn't, you should.

If it was a flood thing, you wouldn't have normally gone.

That's right.

Absolutely.

And if you're on the manifest, you sure as hell should go.

Because somebody might have to take you off.

But if you have a problem, you can take the time.

But we'll be back.

We'll be back.

Yeah.

It's a new one.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Good thing.

I'm very sorry.

I'll let you know.

Yeah, you do.

Yeah.

He's talking to Daniel.

And he says, he's sitting to run the state for a while.

And he says, let me ask you two questions.

Does John Dean know that you're voting to stay or not?

And the lady said, no, I don't know.

He said, well, I don't know.

And Daniel said, the way we got the story is that we were told that in an immediate, he turned to Dean and said, well, John, if you live across the river, why don't you throw the river on the way home?

Which is a new phraseology that he said.

John said, oh, Woodward of the Post had a story

they were open and all of them were told by the dean on march 20th that the date was up and that we all should be prepared to go to jail if necessary

Well, how do you listen to the notes?

And Dean didn't say that.

How do you listen to the notes?

On the 21st.

We talked about the 21st, 2nd, 3rd.

The White House didn't have that.

That's, you know, no way.

John, thanks for the answer to the answer.

Dean is living out the answer to this.

Colson put this out to get Dean out.

Well, let's come back to the same thing.

Bob, I just, I know that this is, you know what I mean, the resignation.

We'll get to that later.

To how a lot of people are poor.

But in my view, in my view, I am not poor because I am not going to condemn people on the basis

of what I consider to be unparoperated evidence and on the basis of what both of you have told me.

I'm just not going to do it.

They could say that the White House is uncharted.

That means that every time that somebody comes under fire, he resigns because he knows what he's going to do with his job.

Hell no.

He doesn't resign unless, and I did say that a little line today, unless

He is an individual with the President's responsibility to see not only that everybody in federal, particularly those in the White House, not only do nothing illegal, but that they meet a higher standard, a standard of, you know, of conduct, of wordly, and that is the test map when you apply on this matter.

Which I think is very wrong, too.

In other words, that's what both of you would want.

We do have a higher standard.

We don't just say, well, sir, I'm high schooled.

I'm a thin edge.

Well, I would, I think my lawyers would say I'm making a mistake.

Saying that your lawyers may be wrong.

My personal view is that I'm better off.

I know I'm better off first.

Yeah.

I am, I'm finished personally by other reasons.

Yeah, because it means I condemn you.

That's right.

Now you understand, if you're indicted.

If I'm indicted, I will resign.

You'll resign, but that isn't finishing necessarily, no.

Because I didn't go.

That's the difference.

Yeah, and I take relief.

Yeah, you see, let me point out the difference between the two.

Resigning at the request of the President, and resigning because you're indicted.

If you resign because you're indicted,

Then, if the judicial process...

I have a reason for it.

And then you've got a reason for it.

And now I... And now, about that, you, almost morally, don't think that you're guilty.

I morally don't think I'm guilty, and publicly, I don't have a reason.

I have allegations that are not true.

There's nothing in the public allegations, even as a basis of truth.

That's true.

Sure.

But it may be later.

Because there are, as we know, some areas of potential jeopardy.

Yeah, I mean, just, what do you mean, the security crap?

Oh, no, no, the 350.

Oh, the 350, on the legal side?

Yeah.

And then, of course, on the moral side, the question about whether you do the security crap.

I don't know where on that, but I think it depends on how that comes out, I guess.

What strong studies and all that.

Fight like hell.

I mean, and I can, or I would be before that committee has got to fight like hell.

And you may have to start fighting like hell publicly now, too.

But in the meantime, I can, I can, instead of...

Worrying about it.

This really, it really bothers me.

I'm sitting here now, worrying about the Iowa White House staff meeting.

We've got to pull people together.

We've got to get things played out.

Someone else is, I can't do that.

I really don't know.

No.

I...

I can't do it.

Well... And it looks silly.

I think John, John's case, as far as this one, this is going to be, this thing is, the shit is in the back, this one, for him, for him, whatever grace, grace as he did to his brother, that he did to his brother, but wasn't told to.

Jesus, it just, it's so shitty, it's, it's,

But it looks like we're trying to destroy it.

It hurts us.

And there is so many of the upgrades and so on.

What does the lead accomplish?

Well, what does the lead really mean?

You take a lead and you replace it.

Whether we can make it real, I guess, if you bring him in, if you bring a guy like that with burden, no problem.

You just gotta go with the function.

If you bring a guy like Rush in, and you do it on a temporary basis, and you detail it from the State Department, and you're a function in this role, and ending the outcome of the event, where you get a couple of resigns as Secretary, one of your secretaries, it seems to me to make the lead

Okay.

Rush is not a super administrator.

He is not going to like you guys one time.

If I leave, I don't think Rush will want to be here anymore.

What's another thing you can do about it?

What about Parker?

I don't want to put any

see the rush move i'm afraid if you don't think he's the permanent man they shouldn't put him over there

You might be the perfect man.

You might want to be that.

If you were the team, you got both.

Yeah.

And basically, I'm never going to have, in the future, have the same relationship with you.

That's all changed.

Like it's already, it's changed.

Sure.

And that's like it's changed with Bull.

It's changed with the others.

And I would sort of do it a lot differently than I've done previously.

And that may not be bad.

Just the fact that you have a lot of criticism for the way that I've tried to do it in a different way gives me credit for it.

I could also say I'm not the chief of staff.

That's not a bad idea.

People say, thank God, because I mean, I don't try to set a line on those Sunday bitches that try to do everything that I do.

I thought

We've got a good team in here, and the buying period is not a long one.

So if somebody is ahead of this, somebody is ahead of that, the work is so on.

Now, how do you handle the staff?

Henry says, if you're rocking it all, Henry's talking about it.

He's got a startup plan, doesn't he?

You and me, and so forth and so on.

We've got to work on it.

And of course, I've got to meet Carter Henry, and with Roger and the rest.

You don't realize what you're doing.

I know.

Because Henry won't grind up the answer.

He won't grind up the answer.

No.

He will.

And Roger won't solve that problem.

No.

I could just say that I'm not going to be killed.

It's like, it's cold, and then you start, you start whining, arguing, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining, and then you start whining,

Parker could move in to take him on a lot of the stuff.

He'll start a second level and somebody has to talk to somebody about it.

But you could make him chief of staff, but you couldn't make him sort of a temporary replacement for some of my functions.

And you might go into being the big one.

Thank you.

What the hell was Rush doing?

Somebody said a guy was stabbing me.

Is that it?

Yeah.

It's hard for you to start working on a turtle.

It's hard to work for it.

I am a hard man, by the way, at least a man.

That's what I'm talking about.

I trust people.

Yeah, but you, like, right, you expect results, and you're, one of the problems you're going to have is you're not going to get the results that you expect.

And that's, you just, that's, you've got to face that.

You're not going to get it.

I could rely more on Ash.

Yeah, you could.

I mean, you are able to deal with him reasonably well.

I could say basically that I'm staffing him, but I think I should be staffing him more on Ash or Ash.

It's terrible.

You know, there's another point.

You could bring him temporarily.

It would be expected, and you could do it.

It would be controversial, but it might not be a bad idea.

You could do it on a temporary basis and see whether it worked.

And then decide then, down the road.

And that's right now.

Hello?

Oh, hello.

But he then did not say anything.

He did not say that he would order it destroyed.

That's that.

I mean, I give it every deal that it should be on the line.

But I hope he does.

He should say nothing.

Yeah.

Right.

That's right.

Is anybody advising you?

That's my point.

Well, then, basically, all you can talk to Dean about is not an interview, but you can only talk about whatever he'll give you the fairest treatment he can.

Isn't that right?

There's no way you can give him an interview, for example, to start an interview.

You see about that?

No.

And that's the point.

Also, he's going to be a coach.

He's trying to change.

Well, on that, what's your advice?

What are you going to do with everything?

I'll take care of my problems.

You should.

I've got my own.

I can handle my own way.

So this is a little bit different version of what Peterson told me.

Peterson told me that Irwin had been ordered, that Greg had been sent to Irwin in order to destroy the documents.

Now that proves not to be true.

Yeah, I want the damn truth.

I don't care whether I know, I know Peterson, H.R.

Simmons, that's all right too, but I don't want, I don't want Peterson to leak the information.

Yeah.

Structure is about in what way, but not to cover up everything.

Oh, I see.

I get it.

Well, I understand.

I understand.

I like Peterson, and I mean myself.

You trust him now, don't you?

Yeah.

All right.

Comments?

I'm talking to him.

I'm talking to him as he's my counsel now.

But that creates a different problem for you that you can't deal with.

It can be explained later.

It can't be explained now.

Just by you not telling anybody, including Dean, or, you know, anybody else.

And then Dean will have to decide what to do as the next step happens.

And I'd leave it to Dean.

I wouldn't ask for it from Dean.

Oh, no, I'd wait a few days at least.

And then maybe have somebody get older than you and say, look, John, can I do it a little bit?

They'll say, you've got to get out of here today.

Oh, no, I wouldn't.

You're on the trail.

I have no idea.

And I think, I really think if you could write your lead letters, and what I'd like to do Bob, I can do it on credit for more than you can.

I hear it from some people, and I think it's good to say that it's good to make this trip.

And it's not.

You've got a very good point.

And let's, God damn it, let's be this way.

Then he'll say, well, I got hold of an American.

That's all right, too.

Then he will have accomplished one of his goals.

Then we'll see who the hell else he's after.

See what I mean?

I don't know if John Bates, you know, but John has done it.

Look, let me tell you something.

You say this story, and you say, yeah, I do.

for a lawyer like John, who was such a goddamn respecter of us, he's, you know, man, he's marvelous.

This is a hell of a blow for him, you see what I mean?

He is, if you and I know what Christ meant, if you tell them it's not that grave or Christ, they take this stuff, look at it, keep it, but it ain't about the Rodriguez, it's a silly bunch of shit that this asshole looked at, right?

That's what he meant, correct?

And Bob, he didn't know how to read that one.

You know, rough son of a bitch.

You know, that's what I read.

He'll say, well, we can't get out based on that story.

Let me tell you, I don't want to have the Congress pass the job.

I don't want to.

I mean, I just feel scared.

Look, I can stand up against them.

I have, you know.

But at the present time,

You know, we've got one of these curious situations where we've got, just when we've got many people, we've got a group of hardliners, and I love them, it's hard.

They're hardliners, you know, or they're a cruel bunch of assholes.

You know, I sometimes think I'd be one of those guys that's not any hardliners.

I said, maybe I shouldn't be able to have a job.

I said, I really think, I really thought, but I couldn't do it for him.

He couldn't do it for me either.

No.

Well, basically, you know a lot.

You've got to live with it.

Well, I've got to live with it.

And also, let's face it.

I can do this job better than anybody else.

That's right.

At this point, I think.

It's all a problem.

And we'll survive the problems.

This does not kill the presidency.

It's tough.

It is tough.

Or do you agree with that?

I don't know.

It doesn't at all.

You know, so many people think Burns thinks we're finished.

I don't need to say it's not a problem.

It's not a problem.

Now John, after this storybook, remember he won't take a leave, right?

He won't put it today.

Yeah.

Right.

And then, uh, it's over with you.

Yeah, it's over with me.

But, uh, but we could do it, not tomorrow, we could do it Saturday, you know, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it, we've done it

on the other hand when i do the changes so i have kept it open

I really can't do the chamber without saying something about this thing.

If you do it, you have to do it without saying anything, because when you say anything, you've got to say everything.

But should I really do the chamber?

Isn't it better to be just skinned out?

I can go do the Spanish thing, that's not skinned out.

That's right.

The chamber is a different thing than this town, all the time.

The rest, you know, we, the whole folks will be on Watergate, yeah.

They'll say, why didn't, and he didn't mention Watergate.

Somebody said, why didn't you talk about Watergate?

I really don't think I should do it.

It's a groovy bunch they're pushing for.

Yeah, but the chamber doesn't do that much.

I don't think it does either.

You know, I've got to reverse myself a little on that.

And that's why probably Connolly's still here.

No, Connolly is a decent, decent man.

No, you're right.

I know that's what Connolly said.

And Nellie, you said, that was nice.

In the background, what did she say?

She said that she was nuts.

Don't you love it?

you know if she figures out well and she oh i know well i have you know what that doesn't worry me

I mean, fuck you, Mr. President.

Fuck you, Trisha.

All that shit.

Not just words, but the violence, the destruction, the tear-gassing at the convention.

What can the nation do?

God, a lot of people have to turn to this place every year.

Well, I know.

Find secret service and do one thing.

I want the threats collected.

I've told you that.

Will they do it?

Yeah, that's done.

Okay.

Oh, I mean, they're good writers, but we don't have an investigator.

That's our problem.

You know, I mean, I really think that, you know, I just think that the number of press, the number of, you know, the number of demonstrations, get all the hate letters, you know, good God, let's put out a chamber of horrors.

I don't think, huh, there's plenty of it.

There is, but I think that's a long gun.

And then you believe it.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Very good.

I don't know, what do you want to do about this?

You see how I feel.

Let me tell you this.

Well, if you remember what I had to do when I came out of the hospital, they compared me, they said, your other guy is an athlete, and I said, I'm technically totally off.

I said, I'm fine.

I mean, I had to put something in place with people that were close to me.

Wouldn't that be a cheap thing to do?

I'll tell you what, that would be perfectly understandable.

You know what?

No.

You know what, though?

I got the right pick-me-up was on that.

I mean, I thought it went home in the case.

I was remembering what had happened in the Athens case.

What happened there was actually...

He says, I got it until then.

And Adams wanted it.

See, Eisenhower.

Eisenhower said, I want the QP.

So it was really common.

That's why Adams hated my guts everywhere after.

That's what happened.

And here, you see, for cases of other people, like, if you were to do that, but

As far as the top people are concerned, the man has got to talk to them about it.

You don't agree?

Oh, I think, why, hell yes.

Hell yes.

Better do.

But I think it would have been perfectly unreasonable.

John has got to understand it from the standpoint of the fact that this kind of crap, Dean, is going to tomorrow.

And it's going to be for him.

Dean has got to get in more than he's got.

More than he's got.

I think that's right.

The next story will be that he, John, or Paul...

He was the mastermind, which is not true.

Right?

Yes.

Absolutely right.

You see, you know, you had one example of it right here and there.

You said, how the hell did we get Erickman to stay alive?

We looked at Erickman.

For Erickman, then you're calling.

If you're an elite, goddammit, then you can fight effectively from where you are.

Yeah, there's no question of why it doesn't come from the White House or anything like that.

Okay, I'll figure it out.

It's going to be too long.

We can do it.

A little rest.