Nixon & Higby on Watergate and San Clemente property

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Hi, Larry.

Did you hear about that?

On my posture?

Yeah.

Well, you know, the thing for the committee, though, for God's sakes, this is the President of the United States.

But there's a committee with him that's only different.

The president used to send out a million dollars of unrecorded funds to the White House.

It's a total goddamn lie!

I know.

Ron's going to hit it exactly that way.

Total lie!

Now, I heard something.

What do you think?

You wanted to make me think that you had to see action in the ways of the House.

But I thought that, uh, that part of it, uh, misrepresentation and offer were both about the rest of it, but over to the Foundation.

That's right.

Terrorists, we haven't put their names out.

We will.

Yeah.

It's a job damn for them to say that we used it.

Isn't that something?

It's unbelievable.

The other thing is, no one has gone as far out of their way as you have to make clear what their financial situation is over and over and over again.

This is just unbelievable that they've never come out of this.

What are they going off upon?

Did he indicate?

And Sue would call me when he gets out of there to go through the other place.

But he said they were really proud.

Which we respect.

Huh?

Which we respect.

Yeah.

You must remember the recording.

Forget it.

Okay.

But I know it's a privilege.

I'm going to sue them anyway.

No, I didn't know.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, yes, you did.

When I talked to you.

Yeah.

I thought you should always say you never, you must never even let them know that Bob told you what he said.

Sure.

Because he's not supposed to tell you what he said.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Say no to this person the other one time.

But you're the only one I've even told that to.

Yeah, well, I was told.

But you're, you're talking to the czar over there.

Yeah.

Well, there's a couple of things working in that direction.

This kind of stuff is going to turn people off.

The other sort of thing that's going to turn people off is Dean's obvious attempt

and doing anything and saying anything to try and get you, particularly, and also Hollywood and earlier.

I mean, even Newsweek, when they go through the story with Dean, they finally at the end say it's a patently obvious attempt, I don't know if they're their exact words, to try and save his own skin.

And I think you're gonna have people who overplay this thing, like John Dean, are gonna fall flat on their face.

The problem we've got is not that, is that kind of cancerous,

Outroads to the side.

No, we're not going to.

We're going to keep our guts and keep fighting.

We're not trying to think or kind of open that theme stuff up now.

We still haven't got the word on that.

No, I think probably because we're just about to move, we haven't got time to preserve everything.

But, uh, I've been trying to guess what it is.

I would guess that what it is might be just some of Hunt's stuff that's on the ground.

I don't know whether, I just don't know how much John trusted John Ervin.

John Ervin, I've heard him tell you a great deal.

And maybe, maybe he has Hunt's

As I told you, I don't know that Hunter ever did any electronic bugging.

John says it is in knowledge, you know.

But my point is, maybe that's what he's being favorable to, I guess.

Your base is as varied in that question.

No, sir.

The only thing that's interesting that you bring up on my stuff, because I was thinking about that after we talked earlier today, and Coulson, you know, is a deviously clever son of a bitch in these sorts of things.

Used occasionally, Dean is, if you understand what I mean, a shield almost.

He referred kind of the details to Dean and used Dean upon occasion as a front man.

And I wonder if the tie didn't come back in that way.

He may have said something to Hunter and then said, you know, he never got out of the town.

That's pure speculation.

There's no absolute proof.

You see, this thing about this house thing, it occurred to me where they possibly get that from.

And they might have got that from me for a reason.

He is the lawyer here.

And he may not know where they...

The blind trust money comes from.

That's right.

Because we didn't tell him about it.

That's right.

See?

That's a very good point.

Why?

He handled all the foundation stuff.

Like he was able to go to, he went to the latest foundation meeting and I know he handled a lot of the details.

Even the purchase of the house and so forth.

Very possible that he did it.

Well, we may just have to put out on the back of that law, or both of them, put out on the back of that law and buy the agenda.

I thought the way we put it out was held by the Nixon Foundation.

That's wrong.

It's not true.

I don't know.

It's held for it, basically.

These two men.

You understand the balance of the problem.

It's held for it.

The parcel, as I understood it, that had your house on it, plus some of the adjacent acreage, was held directly by you.

Yeah, I wrote that.

And the balance of it was held, as I understood it, once again, by the foundation.

Now, you're saying by two members who were trustees of the foundation.

That's really interesting.

Well, they're not trustees.

Both of them.

You and your trustee.

Basically, both.

Not the whole thing.

Both of them.

They just have it in a crush.

waiting for the prosecution to make up his goddamn mind.

But, in any event, if that has to come out, it has to come out.

We didn't, you know, they didn't want to...

I don't think that's harmful anyway.

There's not...

In any way, shape, or form.

And the indignity and the strength with which Ron will mock the rest of it.

It would not matter if that was the case.

It's a body of trust.

We can certainly have the right to have that trust.

It's a body of trust.

In other words, Foundation probably won't want it.

They might want part of it.

You see, that's the whole point.

But Jesus Christ Almighty, what the hell?

Don't you think that might have come to me?

Possibly, yeah, now that you mention it.

Who else would have made such a great damn joke?

You just got some pissed off newsman out there on the coast who, you know, figures here's a way to get off the bandwagon.

What do we got to lose?

And with the hysteria you've got running through the press corps, I mean, you've got a wire picking it up.

The paper's on the bandwagon.

Some guy from San Diego.

San Diego, San Colmeni, Laguna.

I think it's a Laguna paper or something.

Laguna paper?

Yeah.

But for them to pick it up and run it.

The wires together, it's just... Well, for that to run, they had it in the Senate committee election.

Did they?

Yeah.

Yeah, Ron told me that the Senate committee of probers had been told that.

See?

So forth.

For a wire to pick that up, that everybody checked the white box, it's unbelievable.

That's just, that's just, it's not Africa.

Those bastards have no standards at all.

Ron's gonna really run for it.

We've got the back, we've got, we've got DeMarco on my left, he was just being ready to talk to DeMarco, he had all day talking to Colin.

Yeah, I'm with Lisa.

Colin said we should blow this whole thing out of the water, there's not a bit of truth to it.

You can go full blast on it.

But before you want to go on combo, I think you want to double check the .

Well, it is a question of .

I know that they put the money up .

And we just started, you know what I mean?

They didn't want to .

I bought the middle and put the red.

You bought it in five acres.

Yeah, four and a half, five acres.

I would buy it in trust.

That's right.

Thirdly, I mean, the way John set it up, it clearly said it all.

Huh?

The way John set it up.

I remember I used to sit in on Bob and John were talking about it.

It clearly said, in trust.

It's also a good diversionary tactic.

I've got to show you how to do anything.

You start a presidency, you know what I mean?

Well, other presidencies and actors, you know, when they, you know, you know, they start, you know, they start getting a little blood.

They start to give you a shit.

If you're out on a thing like this, this is just disgusting.

Well, you've got to...

But I am.

I'm just as well if I have one so close to the corpse that it's just knocking right out of the ballpark.

It gives you an opportunity to just, if you're one enough, to step up hard.

Well, it was true.

The way they say it.

Well, that's what the point is.

Why didn't a woman write the letter?

Crowe was the lawyer in charge of that operation.

I don't know.

I think it's just going to... No, I don't know.

It's just not where it's got to run its course.

Well, it runs its course in the presence of God.

He destroyed everything.

He didn't believe in it.

Silly ruffles on the floor.

Well, thank God we didn't.

We didn't have nobody to burn the papers with.

That's where all started.

Yeah.

Sal was pointing out today to me.

I heard that from somebody who ate the revolver that there's a good chance that he fell in a couple of years down this way.

Pacific Island.

Why don't you describe the guy?

He's cool.

I would think it would have been a good decision.

I would think it would have been a good call.

He said, you know, that we would have a much better chance of them.

They'd go with me, so I can't believe it.

I think they want to keep him as a bull coach.

I don't know if that would work.

Yeah.

I don't know if that would work.

I couldn't believe my ears.

I didn't think that it was, well, it isn't the paper print, but the center.

Maybe it would allow that kind of a leak to go out.

You know, Laguna is just full of kooks anyway.

Did it come out of Laguna?

Yeah, that's what I heard.

It might come out of there, it might not be out of here.

Dean knows God damn well.

You know what I mean?

He just can't pay me enough to bring his daughter to Kennedy and buy my house for sure.

Or maybe he successfully did.

You think he did?

No.

I don't.

You don't think so?

I don't think this is a Dean story.

You don't?

No.

If it was a Dean story, it wouldn't have come out of the blue.

original.

Did it really come out with them?

That's what I'm told.

I'm an odd checker.

But that's not Dean's style.

That's not a productive avenue for him.

I don't think Dean, obviously Dean has painted himself in a position where he has to attempt to at least implicate you, and definitely in a role from earlier.

He sort of skirts and hedges with me.

You notice he tries just a little bit, I don't know why, to stay clear.

Why does he stay clear in a little bit of a way?

Because I think you really honestly, deep down inside, can understand what I'm saying.

He loves the presidency and respects the presidency.

You think he does?

Yeah.

Did Bob ever tell you about the conversation I had with him about the time he came over to my office?

Well, I talked to him over my office, and it was clear to me that the way he was talking, that he was really interested in saving Japs, number one.

Number two, he honestly believes, I think, that they're looking to see if all of them are in on this.

I don't think, but...

Does he think I'm in on it?

No.

He said to me three different times, you know, this is the only way we can save the presidency.

In our conversation.

When was that, what date?

There were four boxers on it, so it was screwed on three weeks ago.

I don't know what the after really is.

See, that's when all this stuff was coming in.

It was after the first really big ride.

After I had made my mistake on the fall of the 15th.

Before you accepted the word of God.

You can't actually.

This is what it says in Christ.

This isn't the only way to save the presidency.

Not in terms of getting him to resign, but in terms of all the speculation that was running.

Remember we were in limbo for about ten days there where the Dean thing had come out and you had not yet acted?

We talked about his resignation.

It was after that.

And he said, I will, if they will.

I said, we can't put it on that basis.

I said, we can all have the same chance.

That's right.

Because I was in touch with the U.S. Attorney and said they were trying to work out a deal with him.

I said, all right.

And last Friday, they said we'd given up on the deal in front of him.

It was after you talked to him.

Yeah, I'd asked to see him.

I said I just wanted to see him somewhere because I couldn't figure out why he was trying to screw it up.

He said, well, he claimed to me, I don't think it was true, that he was not putting any of those statements out.

He said almost the same line as usual, that he wasn't, that he had checked with all his friends, that he didn't know who was doing it.

looked me right in the eye and said, I fear no man.

I know, I heard that.

And she didn't say, I think this is the only way we can save the president.

So this shot, I just don't think it's his style.

I think it's a separate thing.

Now, the curious way that

Yes.

Well, his practice with you this week is much different from last week, isn't it?

Yes.

Right, he's calling us this week and saying not enough.

What was he doing?

I don't think I saw him.

Right.

He said, oh, first that he hadn't made any reports, which is a lie.

That's a lie.

Second, that, uh...

on the resignation that there would be.

I said no full hearing.

That was absolutely not true.

That's why I investigated myself.

But we were trying to get him to write up the goddamn report.

I already remember.

Well, we sent him up to Camp David specifically for that purpose.

Gave him dinner.

Gave him the presidential retreat to go up there and write all the facts.

To get them all down in one place.

He knew what was happening.

He spent the time writing his own case to the...

He told me that from home.

Yeah.

I can't write this case, but I made a very good defense of myself.

Well, most precisely, I haven't made much progress on writing a report, but I held the case for myself.

He started joking about that.

Yeah.

But even then, he gave a clear impression that he was working for all of us.

Yeah.

Well, I think he just gave up.

He saw you, he didn't know about these lawyers.

And Bob can do that in terms of what he's doing for you.

Well, what's your advice to what we ought to do to continue the fight?

Yeah, I think we've got to continue to fight to make a difference.

Bob and I were talking the other night, and they're not after you, really.

In a way, they're after a principle on this matter.

They're going to try to bring down the presidency.

And I think that we've got to fight that with truth.

I think that you've got to...

I've gone through this with Boston, and I hate to give you any kind of advice, but I think you've got to be out.

You've got to be open.

You can't get this thing they're trying to develop, you know, hidden in the White House or by yourself in the White House.

Well, I did not put it in.

You've got to get it out in public.

You can't do this in public.

But we're going to do Norfolk this weekend.

That's great.

Al's got some other good ideas.

Oh, yeah, we're going to do all the other things in Washington, D.C.

But not on an obvious, all-of-a-sudden basis.

No.

I think about one a week.

I don't think more than one a week is a little bit too obvious.

No.

Terribly obvious.

We've got some good, solid stuff.

We've got Hailey Selassie.

We've got Iceland.

Hailey Selassie.

We've got that.

We've got Iceland.

Those things are out.

The other thing we've got to do is I think we've got to put together here.

The Czar's got to get really a brain trust under him, so that we're prepared to handle every crisis that comes up, rather than letting every crisis overtake us.

And that doesn't have to come to me.

Precisely.

Or even me.

It should come with an answer.

Here's what's happened, Mr. President.

Here's what we're going to do.

It was all wrong.

He was a real bastard.

He sure was.

He was out of the whole school.

Yeah, I know.

He was out there in the great school.

I just feel for Bob.

He's a mad son of a bitch.

He's an asshole.

I'm worried that he's shining his shoes.

I've been down there giving him help, giving him John Redmond help.

But they'll have themselves another job.

Bob, I've seen Bob quite often.

And he's in secure shape.

I'll rub you off.

I think so.

I've talked to John a couple of times.

He seems to be doing great.

The trouble is, John's got, you know, about four fronts he's got to fight.

I know.

So it's a different sort of deal.

I'll do that.

All the deep papers are on you.

Yes, sir.

I don't know what that is.

Nixon & Higby on Watergate and San Clemente property

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 14, 1973

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