Conversation 436-015

TapeTape 436StartMonday, May 14, 1973 at 7:27 PMEndMonday, May 14, 1973 at 8:15 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  Garment, Leonard;  Higby, Lawrence M.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On May 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Leonard Garment, and Lawrence M. Higby met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 7:27 pm to 8:15 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 436-015 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 436-15

Date: May 14, 1973
Time: 7:27 pm - 8:15 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler. The recording began at an unknown time while the
conversation was in progress.

Ronald L. Ziegler talked with Leonard Garment at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 436-15A]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 46-34]
                                           -22-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2012)

                                                            Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Grand jury actions
                -Indictments
          -Ervin Committee
                -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                      -Ziegler’s possible reaction
                -Relations with the White House
          -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                -New York Times
                -President’s possible response
                -Ziegler’s previous press briefing
                      -Associated Press
                      -Santa Ana Register story, May 13
                      -President’s financial disclosures
          -White House response
          -Television [TV] coverage of Dean
          -White House response
                -President’s conversation with Herbert G. Klein

Leonard Garment talked with Ronald L. Ziegler at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 436-15B]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 46-35]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                -Associated Press
                      -Possible libel suit
                -Ziegler’s previous conversation with Garment
                      -Garment’s conversation with unknown man
                                            -23-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2012)

                                                            Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

                       -Howard H. Baker, Jr. and Sam J. Ervin, Jr.
                 -Ervin Committee
                       -Carmine Bellino
                       -Possible White House reaction
                               -Call for investigation
                                     -Santa Ana Register
                       -Baker
                               -Conversation with Garment
                       -Possible White House reaction
                 -Ziegler’s denial
           -White House response
                 -Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters’s forthcoming testimony
           -Dean
                 -Documents
                       -News summary
           -Participants’ lies
           -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s testimony, May 14
                 -Lawrence M. Higby

Ronald L. Ziegler talked with the White House operator at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 436-15C]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 46-36]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Walters’s testimony
               -Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
                            -Meeting with Haldeman regarding Central Intelligence Agency
                [CIA] involvement

Ronald L. Ziegler talked with Lawrence M. Higby at an unknown time.
                                            -24-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2012)

                                                            Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

[Conversation No. 436-15D]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 46-37]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Ziegler’s previous phone conversation with Higby
                -Haldeman’s grand jury testimony
                      -Meeting with Walters
                            -National security
                            -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                      -$350,000
          -Haldeman’s meeting with Walters
          -Ziegler’s previous conversation with Higby
                -Haldeman’s grand jury testimony
          -Haldeman
                -Meeting with Walters, Richard M. Helms and Ehrlichman
          -CIA
                -Walters, Helms
                -Dean’s efforts
                      -Haldeman and Ehrlichman
                -Ziegler’s conversation with Buzhardt
                      -L[ouis] Patrick Gray’s conversations with Walters
                            -Haldeman and Ehrlichman

     Zielger’s schedule
           -Message

Zielger talked with an unknown person at an unknown time after 7:27 pm.

[Conversation No. 436-15E]

[Begin telephone conversation]
                                           -25-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2012)

                                                          Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

     Message
          -President’s request [?]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Dean
          -CIA
                -President’s conversation with Helms
                      -John N. Mitchell
                -Haldeman and Ehrlichman
                -Haldeman’s meeting with Walters and Helms
                -Haldeman’s possible testimony
                -Walters’s motives
                      -Effect on Haldeman and Ehrlichman
                             -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s opinion
          -Wiretaps
                -Henry A. Kissinger
                -Haig
                -Kissinger’s role
                      -Haldeman’s conversation with President
                -President’s role
                -Kissinger
                      -Activities
          -White House response
                -Patrick J. Buchanan’s view
                -President’s schedule
                -Adherence to strategy
                      -Haig
                      -White Paper
                -President’s schedule
                      -President’s forthcoming message on Election Commission
                             -Raymond K. Price, Jr.’s draft
          -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                -Press reaction
                      -Garnett D. (“Jack”) Horner
                      -Frank Cormier
                                 -26-

       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                           (rev. May-2012)

                                                 Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

           -Associated Press
                 -Klein
                 -Ziegler’s call to James Wes Gallagher
     -Ervin Committee
           -Baker’s reaction
                 -Bellino
                 -Ervin
     -Libel
     -Possible public reaction
     -White House reaction
           -William E. Timmons
     -Press Office handling of stories
           -Compared with Dr. John L. (“Jack”) Lungren’s office break- in story
           -1960 break-in of John F. Kennedy’s doctor’s office
-White House reaction
     -Haig, Buzhardt, Ziegler and President
     -President’s schedule
           -Frequency of speeches
     -Possible White Paper
-Dean
     -Documents
           -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
     -Newsweek and Time
     -Possible motives
           -Department of Justice [DOJ]
           -Immunity
           -Haldeman and Ehrlichman
           -President
     -Immunity
     -Documents
           -Possible contents
     -Possible motives
           -President, Haldeman and Ehrlichman
-White House reaction
     -Haig compared with Haldeman
     -Possible impeachment
           -Buzhardt
                                            -27-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2012)

                                                            Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

                 -Haig
                 -Adherence to strategy
           -Dean
                 -Documents
                       -Hunt
                 -Relationship with Hunt and Ehrlichman
                 -Documents
                       -Possible contents
                             -Effect on Ehrlichman
                             -Hunt’s Memoranda of conversation [Memcons]
                                   -George T. Bell
           -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                 -Garment’s reaction
                       -Conversations
                             -Baker, Fred D. Thompson and Samuel Dash

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 436-15E]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 46-38]

[End telephone conversation]

     Watergate
          -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                -Ziegler’s forthcoming conversation with Garment
                -Ziegler’s previous conversation with Gallagher
                -Klein

Ronald L. Ziegler talked with Leonard Garment at an unknown time.

[Conversation No. 436-15F]

[Begin telephone conversation]
                                             -28-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. May-2012)

                                                             Conversation No. 436-15 (cont’d)

[See Conversation No. 46-39]

The President talked with Garment at an unknown time.

[End telephone conversation]

      Watergate
           -Allegations regarding President’s San Clemente property
                 -Garment
                       -Activities
                       -Ziegler’s forthcoming conversation with Klein
                             -Retractions
                                    -Santa Ana Register
                                    -Associated Press
           -White House reaction
                 -Haig

Ziegler left at 8:15 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Call me back on 5-4.
Right.
Yeah, you talked to Victor.
Call me back on 5-4.
Find out what he said.
I think maybe what you're saying is that...
You know, our real problem here is that you might almost think there's a conspiracy between the grand jury and the prosecutors today.
Because rather than getting the goddamn indictments out, which would tend to
put the air out of the goddamn committee.
They let it hang here.
And all that doesn't mean a lot.
Every day is a new fucking charge.
Like this.
Now that, that idea is going to be, I mean, I really think that there's a lot going on tomorrow.
I don't know how, but I think you may have to hit it with everything.
You know what I mean?
Step out there and say, this committee will have indicted something.
I don't know.
I'm opposed to it.
I'm opposed to it.
Chairman?
All the members of the committee deserve a public apology from the president for allowing this vicious libel to be eliminated from the committee and not to repudiate the meeting.
They were called upon to do so last night.
They have failed to act, and their failure to act will be an indictment of everything this committee does in the future.
Did you say there was something?
I don't know.
I don't think they have any staff or anything.
I don't know.
It might not be out of the committee.
You see, the story was written in California.
You see, let me tell you, the greatest scheme is to fight the committee.
You know, they can have it.
We may have reached a point on this one where we have to fight the committee.
You don't want to fight them all out yet, but you know, before the hearings begin,
I wish you would have said, I wish I could have gotten to you sooner, I wish you would have said that any paper that prints this, any television station that uses this, would have the ability to the most vicious end of their life.
I wish I would have thought that earlier.
I thought I'd be sending that, but you can't sue it.
I tried to do a formation tone.
I said, we're sending this credible, but I even have to deny a story like this.
I said, first of all, and then secondly, I said it's credible that a national larceny would run a speech, AP, would run a night of cold night protesting in the outfield.
I said, it's credible that the Associated Press would prove the national larceny.
So this would be more changeable.
And I said, I should say, also, this story I went to the Santa Ana Register yesterday, not a good day, without any check from the White House.
And I said, it was malicious.
It was false.
And I said, totally and utterly untrue, I said, no president in office has given a more complete and thorough accounting
I want to say this that I want you to understand.
I know you're concerned about the accretion we're suffering now.
There's going to be more.
My view is, just remember, we've got a lot of friends.
We'll play to those.
We'll get to our heart's core.
But don't be too god damn worried about it.
No, I'm not.
I'm not.
I like being that.
I like being that.
The only thing that's going to, in the end, save us here is that we will not be fighting this god damn sword.
We will be doing other things.
I agree.
But that will only come when we can turn to other things.
Now this thing will fight.
You see, so much shit is in the man now.
That's just, you know.
It's true, it's practically all.
What's that?
Well, I was just trying to get into the, into the committee's, in the press, when we get into a bunch of parts, I just saw a little bit of the TV debate with John, thinking they had him chasing them around town and all that kind of thing, and it's, uh, Cadillac, what is it?
I don't know.
But, uh, it looks like they did.
beginning to look like a farce.
I agree with you totally that we don't want to move too fast on this.
As I said, if you can't use the big gun, I mean, I saw from her, finally.
Rather than just speaking out.
I can't speak every week when this guy's put in.
I agree.
I spoke two weeks ago.
That's what you want to do.
That's what I'm saying.
That would contribute to the attrition.
Exactly.
If you went out every week, then that would attribute to it.
Because of, well, at 11 o'clock, because it may, if it takes them, if it takes them from 5 o'clock the night before until, let's say, 10.30 the next day,
Why not consider a 5 million dollar lawsuit against the AP?
Now on this issue, they have to retract.
And I say on the filing of the lawsuit, the proceeds will be given to the police.
God damn it, you know, this is a, this is a straight.
I'm liable.
And, uh, I'm liable for two things.
I'm liable for two things.
I'm liable for three.
Well, I understand why.
I understand.
And secondly, I'm not going to lie to you.
This may be the first grave of a big lie.
In other words, yes, it's said to be.
What does that say?
What do you have to say about it, though?
Yes.
I'm sure they had no basis of motivation for it.
And listen, I told Baker that that's not good enough.
That we want an official statement.
Baker, here's the thing.
We can cover this tomorrow.
Baker can't return it.
I hope so.
You demand a public retraction and apology.
A public retraction and apology by the vote of the President of the United States.
If they do not, they will ban themselves before their committee hearings begin.
for allowing a malicious libel to go unanswered for over 24 hours.
Now, if they take, I agree with that.
If they take the position, see, Carmen Molina was here in Washington.
Now, if the committee takes a position
Well, this was not anyone on their side.
Didn't we call for an investigation?
In other words, if at 9 o'clock they leave tomorrow, in other words, one of those things, the public retraction, if it came from a source, they're fine.
But also,
If they take the line in their 9 o'clock statement when they issue it, that this did not come to the committee, then we ask them to assume total responsibility for the statement in a general public apology, but also demand that the committee investigate with contacts with the Santa Ana Registry.
where the story originated to determine who was responsible in terms of using the Senate to investigate.
I can introduce the story to the Senate and investigate immediately who made this malicious charge against the president.
You see, I think that approach could be even stronger than also...
I know, I know.
What does Len say?
That Baker just assholed her out.
Pretty weak.
Baker can't get away with that.
It's too goddamn weak.
But did Len think it was sweet?
Yes, he did.
He told Baker.
It was the line, get Len back.
And I think he should tell Baker not to.
Bum, bum, bum, bum.
Correct.
Correct.
No, he didn't.
He chose that line.
What did he say?
Len Fussell said it.
Yes, he said it.
Yes, he said it.
That's what we expected.
The committee will have indicted himself.
The committee will have indicted himself before the hearing began.
or we demand an investigation for who was, what staff member was responsible and his discharge, immediate discharge.
And then if they say, you see, then if they say no one on the staff was responsible and called for the investigation and then we say that makes it even more important that it took a good 18 hours for the committee to gather itself to
deny officially as a committee the validity of this report.
That's part of the job.
Be sure you have your perspective, too.
You've got three and a half years left, man of God.
And this will pass.
It's going to be tough, but it will pass.
In the meantime, I really, I'm totally, we can't allow, to consume us every goddamn day, like today, but I don't think we need to be quite that concerned about the law or stuff.
What do you mean?
I shouldn't be that bothered about it.
So he testified.
I think that we should, I should be that concerned about the, the main thing I want to know about, mainly because, what the hell the son of a bitch has got.
I don't think that any, as you know,
We know he's got nothing from me.
Because, thank God, I have checked our files.
Not once.
Stinky, damn thing.
Except that one.
That basically is not right.
Of course, I'd like to thank them.
The reason they have so much conflicting testimony, I'm probably not smart enough to realize this yet.
Because, during the course of this entire event,
An awful lot of people lied to other people about what they were charged to do, what authority they had to do it with.
And that is why I don't think they'll ever be able to try and keep it.
And they'll try it.
And they'll try it.
Well, that's why the committee hearings themselves.
Because the committee hearings will also indicate the testimony.
.
.
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I should have been able to trust him at least, you know what I mean?
If there were CIA involved, God damn, we would have looked at it, wouldn't we?
But there wasn't.
So we calmed down.
What are they going to do?
I don't know what he was able to do.
He knows that.
But God's over with now.
That's something that Al would have raised with the President.
Okay.
Well, he said that Bob told him, well, he said, Rob, they've made up all of the subjects.
Larry said, Bob's a conspirator.
He said, they brought the Mars service story up to him on a signing event.
And Bob answered him very directly.
He said to me,
It was only involved in one meeting with Walters, and he didn't get into that because he played in the National Security.
Now, that may be where they're going to get him.
I didn't want to say that hilarity, but that might be where they're going to get him.
And that's what the votes are.
Well, suppose they do get him.
That's all right.
Oh, you mean, but Walters has been directed to National Security.
Well, he said it did end him.
He said it did end him.
That's correct.
.
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He said he was there for five and a half hours and he doesn't know if he'll have to go back.
He doesn't know.
When did they say he laughed at one point?
No, they laughed.
No, no, I was just talking to Larry there.
I didn't use that term.
I guess the older Bob, God damn, he's an honest man.
You know damn well Bob.
They weren't, look, try to explain to me, if they were trying to put a fix on it, would they have got that Helms there?
Helms?
Shit, he's a Democrat.
You might have got Walters in the dark at night and said, look, look, old jolly old boy, old friend, can you help us out here, go over here and try to take this thing up?
Shit, they were hoping for the best.
But Walters, who is conspiratorial, is giving them a bad rap.
I already do think so.
You don't agree?
Well, I don't know.
What do you think?
First of all, I think the scenario can be woven out of the way of the state.
I think that's the accurate scenario.
But if you take
And then you have the impression that Walters has left, that they were clearly stating
together with the Dean of Edmonds.
Yeah, those were Deans, that's what I think.
Which totally protects, and frankly so, the office of the President of Madison.
I thought it was very damaging about the town, because it looked as if Dean did it for Bob and John Second.
And I don't think he did, though.
I think Dean did that on his own.
I agree with you on that.
Except, as I understand it, it wasn't her.
There are some conversations that Gray has with the Walter people.
How did John move in that direction?
That's what he probably testified to.
You want to go to the bathroom?
Not circumstantial.
The whole fucking thing is circumstantial.
Absolutely.
I tell you, I think what happened is that Dean was a great guy.
I don't know.
She was a great fellow to, you know, to be a big hero in herself.
Look, Bob and John, we all were, you know, we hoped that Christ would see us.
I didn't.
And when Tom told me it wasn't my fault, it must have been the goddamn committee.
It must have been Mitchell.
That's right.
I just gave up that day.
Nothing happened though.
The main point about that is that there was no, in their point of view, in terms of the criminal act, from their standpoint, there was absolutely nothing.
It just makes them look as if they were trying or something.
You know, there is no, you're not guilty for an attempt.
You realize that, of course you are.
They can't kill you, they can't convict you for an attempt.
Unless you touch the guy.
We're all in this one.
Would you say, of course, well, of course you know this is all in your head anymore.
If stated, it's not that bad.
Oh!
It's not a word for Bob, I suppose.
Actually, the statement by Bob was that he had only orders and help to determine whether or not there was CIA involvement in this matter.
Right.
And determine if there was any potential for CIA.
How the hell can we tell him he's not here?
We can't tell him what the hell to say.
His parents are saying, that's all right.
Let it be there.
You know, sir, his being convicted in the public mind is not our problem.
I just don't want to convict him in court.
This will avoid that.
But, as Haig says, we make Bobby and John look bad.
You know, another fellow that looks kind of bad in all this garage is Henry.
Henry doesn't want it.
Who the hell was insisting on all those goddamn investigations at that time?
Do you remember?
Yes, sir.
Are they members concerned?
Oh, for Christ's sake.
And Al, too.
That's right, Al.
You and Henry both stand right up there and say you're goddamn right you were concerned.
And we suggest that we find out who the hell was leaking these materials.
The NISMs and everything else were getting out.
But Henry can't stand up there and say, well, I ain't nothing about it.
He came across my death.
Bullshit.
Henry Kissinger was deep in this.
He read the goddamn thing.
Bob tells me.
Bob told me that Henry used to love to read the text.
I never saw one.
Never in my life.
One.
That's all.
Oh, uh, we want to get that.
Oh.
Don't let him, don't let him ever give me any of this bullshit.
In fact, he wasn't aware.
I mean, he's, he's, you know, he's, you know, how do you mean?
A little more responsibly or worse?
A little more responsibly.
Getting back to your major point of the line, I think that you're absolutely right.
The other side.
The Department of Canada, what do you think?
Oh, I haven't had the chance to say that.
I haven't been able to talk to Mr. White.
What's he think?
His point of view is to make sure some president ought to get out.
No, no, he doesn't think he ought to get out and make a speech.
Everybody wants him to get out and make a speech.
That's the most silly thing I can think of.
That's not my point.
Good.
Thank God.
You can't do it every week.
What then do you do?
Being upbeat.
Working on these things.
Big, upbeat.
Working on these.
Hey, and everybody else.
Hey, and everybody else.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
You've got to get on with it.
Choose a timing, not for presidential speech.
Part for something, but choose a timing, whatever the forum is.
You know what I think?
I'm not sure it should be a speech.
Part for something, but choose a timing, whatever the forum is.
You know what I think?
I'm not sure it should be a speech.
I've done the thing from the Oval Office, and I've done the thing before the Republicans, and the rest is a speech.
which time I've done the thing from the Oval Office and I've done the thing before the Republic.
Maybe to keep it at the proper level, a white paper, just setting it all and the rest,
Maybe to keep it at the proper level of white paper, you know, and say, for Christ's sake, let's get this goddamn out.
And, you know, categories, just setting it all out, you know, and say, for Christ's sake, let's get this goddamn out.
But, you know, there's something to be said for them.
I mean, the idea that, and let the president go before the country, categorically, there's not talking, something to be said for them about Watergate.
I read great prices for it.
I mean, the idea that, and let the president, who's already loused the poor production, but go before the country, not talking about Watergate.
I read great prices for it.
We ended up a little bit.
But he kept saying as a result, he had Watergate, which was really loud, the word Watergate, the poor production.
But three times, I grabbed a fresh truck and I was reading my mind.
I ended up with a pack of Watergate.
I thought, congrats.
I thought, what, a company that can't manage this?
That's right.
But he kept saying as a result, he had Watergate, the word Watergate, three times.
I grabbed a fresh truck and I was reading my mind.
You see what I'm doing?
I have a pack of Watergate.
But my point is, we just, congrats.
What about the campaign that they've got to get out and start?
Dan Andrews is right.
They're talking about other subjects than monarchy.
They say it's boring.
I don't care.
I say it will pass.
I say it will pass.
My heart is, we've just got to meet as if they're gnawing at us, eating at us.
They've got to get out and start talking about other subjects than monarchy.
I say it will pass.
Is there going to have any one of those god damn press people that immediately as if they didn't, for example, believe this story, but they're gnawing at us, losing at us?
Is there going to have any one honest man, probably old hearted, anybody beyond hearted, those god damn press people that didn't, for example, believe this story, but they're gnawing at us, is there going to have any one honest man,
Well, let me say, I've inclined to think, probably old Martin, probably anybody beyond Martin.
No, no.
Frank, close your eyes.
We're not following the stronger strategy.
I think we should call.
I've heard call.
Well, let me say, I've inclined to think, we're not following the stronger strategy.
We need people.
Who is it that we should call?
I heard a call.
Who is it that we should call?
What's going on here?
What are you talking about?
Who is it that we should call?
I heard a call.
Who is it that we should call?
What's going on here?
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
I heard a call.
What's going on here?
What are you talking about?
They were destroyed.
The judge said, well, this is your responsibility.
My opponent went out.
I said, no, you're going to have to go back.
This is my mission.
You're responsible.
I said, no, you're going to have to pull it off anymore.
I got up and ran.
No, you're going to have to go back.
I said, no, you're going to have to pull it off.
It should work anymore.
I got up and ran.
I don't know if we really got them here.
You know, they got them here.
This is a breaking point.
It really is.
You know, we really got them here.
You know what I mean?
Because this is a breaking point.
Basically, if you kept somebody alive, Ron, you'd discredit them forever on.
It really is.
Basically, if you kept somebody alive, and I had to find an urban committee building, Ron, you'd discredit them forever on.
And then you head up and talk to them.
Now, I say, now, they have waited.
But that's a no-no.
You should not have the fucking urban committee doing anything to us.
You know what we do.
We do this afternoon.
And then you head up and say, now, they have waited.
Burn for them.
That little shit.
But that's a no-no.
That's paper.
That didn't do anything, did it?
Quite a big no-no.
You know what we do.
We do this.
We say it is.
That's a no-no.
They were.
Burn for them.
That's a little shit-ass paper.
That didn't do anything, did it?
Well, I can tell you to the press that they have no information on the events that he went on.
He said that Baker had stated to the president that he knew whatever his name was.
They had no information on the matter, you know, he had not in California.
That he could reach, could convert, which is fine.
But, you know, he had not in California.
Not enough horses, by the way.
that he could reach Earth, which is fine.
But, well, as long as they can, yes.
Not enough.
Not enough, of course.
The whole scrum and the libel is out there.
But, well, as long as they can, yes.
The whole scrum and the libel of the President of the United States, not on the goddamn water and the libel, but the people is out there.
They lie.
Ron, that's the point of the President of the United States.
Not on the goddamn Watergate, but thievery.
Ron, this is a big deal.
I mean, don't you realize how vicious this is?
That's the point.
This is a big deal.
Don't you realize how vicious this is?
See, if I don't have the CIA in the rest, that just affects the average person.
The President.
The community...
See, if you're talking about $6 a decade in the rest, that just reflects the average person.
They think the president took a million dollars of campaign funds, campaign funds, to build himself a house.
They think, well, that damn thieving son of a bitch built himself a house.
They think, well, that's Dan Thielen, son of a bitch.
Now, I want this hit.
I want this hit tomorrow.
Everybody.
Tomorrow.
Everybody.
And get people on line.
Timbers ought to get off this pass.
And get people on line.
Timmons ought to get off with some cannabis, because he hasn't done very well lately.
And get a few people in the way.
And get a few people in the house in the south, the swash oil.
You think maybe Timmons could get up in the morning and do a little of the house in the south, the swash oil?
You think maybe Timmons could get up in the morning and do a little of this in the night?
Oh, he's in the night.
Probably can't.
Oh, he probably can't be cleared by Elstern.
We've got to be worried about domestic counsel.
Elstern will learn.
We've got to be worried about domestic counsel.
Timmons never sees the base of you.
He always sees the little one.
Timmons never sees the base of you.
He always sees the little one.
Not very good at the base passing.
Thanks for not very good at the base passing.
Thanks for everything.
Well, I actually believe he means well, but I don't know that he... Well, I actually believe he means well, but I don't know that he ever sees it through.
Broad perspective doesn't.
He ever sees it through.
Broad perspective doesn't.
This is big.
This is...
Believe me, make it big.
Yeah.
Make it big and do the big.
Believe me, make it big.
Yeah.
Make it big and do the big.
That... God damn it, there were all the big.
That...
Goddammit, they're wrong, and we're right, and it's a hell of a libel.
And Ron, don't let it die right, and it's a hell of a libel.
And Ron, don't let it die.
I mean, I mean, the way I, I mean, I mean, the way that, for example, I, for example, I thought your people really dropped the ball on, on, on, on our kids.
Your people really dropped the ball on, on, on, on our kids' office.
That ran on the back pages with the corset ads, didn't get a name at all.
That wasn't very well done, Rob.
That ran on the back pages with the corset ads, didn't get a name at all.
That wasn't very well done, Rob.
I would have pushed that fine story for all it's worth.
And I know why it wasn't done, because we don't play for all it's worth.
We don't play that kind of game.
God damn it to hell.
And I know why it wasn't done, because we don't play that kind of game.
God damn it to hell.
What the hell was that about?
You don't want, what the hell was that about?
You don't want to ever get there, if you find something that'll beat them.
You don't want to ever get there, if you find something that'll beat them.
But you didn't get it.
I know it.
It's got it.
I said, of course it did.
Page two.
Reverse.
How much?
And again, I know it.
It's got it.
I said, of course it did.
Page two.
I'll do the reverse.
How much?
Any of us?
You've got four occasions.
You've got four occasions.
... ... ... ... ...
But the main thing, you are absolutely right.
You are amazing.
You are absolutely right.
You are a lesson to you.
We mustn't be obsessed with this.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
Behave, must feel, as every man can tell.
We mustn't be obsessed with this.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
We mustn't be obsessed with this.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
We mustn't be obsessed with this.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
We mustn't have a philosophy here.
And frankly, I must, by God, we are gonna be beaten so bad.
Because otherwise, we'll show it to the country.
Sons of bitches.
And we've got to play them strong.
By God, we are going to beat them in the beginning.
Now, as far as beating sons of bitches, and we've got to play them strong.
We've got to go around and hit them in the beginning.
Now, as far as, I'll let them get this idea, but if the president goes out and makes an appearance, we've got to go around and hit him.
Don't let them get this idea that I make a speech every two weeks.
You're the president, go out and make a television speech.
You can't do it, Ron.
I agree.
God damn it, you can't make a speech.
What is the name of a press conference?
Screw the press conference.
Maybe every two weeks.
You can't do it, Ron.
Someday, Ron.
I agree.
What is the name of a press conference?
Maybe.
A conference.
Screw the press conference.
Not right now.
Or do you agree?
Maybe someday.
Maybe.
I agree.
I do agree.
I do agree.
Or do you agree?
I agree.
I do agree.
Not in this atmosphere.
Then what do we do?
Fight any of us.
Maybe we should play cards.
Maybe.
Then what do we do?
Maybe we should pray.
Fight any of us.
Maybe we should play cards.
We have to be very careful.
Maybe.
Maybe we should pray.
We have to be very careful.
We have to cover everything.
We have to cover everything.
Well, we're going to need the paper.
Well, we're going to need the paper.
And that's it.
That's it.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm with you.
I'm really really got a bunch of shit a bunch of shit He's trying to develop he's trying to develop That wasn't a strategy
If that wasn't, he would not be doing what he's doing.
It's a strategy.
He would not be doing what he's doing now, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of,
is to create enough anticipation or right there on the part of the Justice Department to grant him remittance.
Under immunity he can go, because there's so much in the immunity.
Under immunity he can go.
Circumstantial, would you give him immunity, because there's so much circumstance... Me?
Me?
Never.
Circumstantial, would you give him immunity now?
Me?
Me?
Because this man is... Never.
Don't you agree?
I agree.
You're so untrustworthy, because you know immunity, whatever.
But this man has proved select.
Let the sovereign wretch go off and say what he wants.
...whatever.
See, he feels under unity that he has... Let the sovereign wretch go off and say what he wants.
See, he feels under unity.
If he's given of unity, then he is enough circumstantial that he has...
If he's circumstantial type of unity, then he is better than himself.
Enough circumstantial type of evidence against Father John.
that he can move back and forth, that his father, John, is incredible, that he can move back and forth.
However, all of the circumstantial evidence is incredible.
However, all of the circumstantial evidence of John involves deep evidence, because of his father.
Every damn evidence of John involves deep evidence right now.
Therefore, he figures it's great.
Every damn bit of immunity.
Now, therefore, he can put forth all of the circumstantial evidence involving Roger Baker's grant of immunity.
Send him some...
He can put forth all of the circumstantial evidence involving Roger Baker.
Which might involve...
Send him some...
He has... No.
Which might involve...
He might...
I mean, the argument is made...
I mean, the argument is maybe kick the shit out of him, hurt him, all of it.
It would be easy on the president.
I mean, maybe kick the shit out of him, hurt him, all of it.
It would be easy on the president.
I don't agree with that.
But under this...
But under this strategy, and he could, strategy, and he could, having made him into, having made him into, and put Permanent Group on hold, and put Permanent Group on hold, and then put himself into it, and put himself into it, into the role of his agent.
I mean, very lightly.
Why any court?
Why any court?
And any judge?
Because he nailed it.
And any judge?
Because he nailed it.
And there's guys that's gotta be instructed.
And there's guys that's gotta be instructed.
Well, they nailed it.
They nailed it.
They resigned.
They resigned.
You know, he's...
He's in hell of a spot.
He's...
He's in hell of a spot here right now.
He ain't gonna get it, Jeffy.
He ain't gonna get it, Jeffy.
Except his little papers.
Except his shot here.
Those papers don't have nothing.
Those papers don't have nothing.
Those papers don't have nothing.
He didn't have a goddamn thing for the press or nothing.
He didn't have a goddamn thing for the president, which is what he would love if they had him.
Isn't that right?
No.
President, which is what he would love if they had him.
I don't know.
Huh?
I don't know.
Isn't that right?
No.
I don't know.
Huh?
I don't think he's out.
You don't think he's going that far?
Why not?
Why not?
Because all he needs is a vehicle.
But I have to go from his own self-protection.
All he needs is what he's out.
That's right.
You don't think he's going that far?
Why not?
Why not?
Because all he needs is a vehicle.
But I have to go.
He doesn't need a vehicle.
Well, you've got to nail that.
That's right.
He needs self-protection.
All he needs is a German gun.
All of it.
There's a leak.
A heap of... You're absolutely right.
There's a haze and the rest...
There's a leak.
A heap of... You're absolutely right.
There's a haze and the rest... You see that?
That's why we miss Hall.
Hall is the great repository of strong land around here.
We miss it.
There's a haze and the rest...
I'm going to keep the gun down.
See, that's why we miss Hall.
Hall is the great, positive, strong man, but he's not experienced yet.
But Harry, you have got to realize that every goddamn little story around here, we miss it.
He is a positive, strong man, but he's not experienced yet.
But Harry, you have got to realize that
And by God, every God's animal story is the name of the world.
And by God, we're going to win this.
We're going to fight until the soul freezes over.
They have people to win this.
We're going to fight until the soul freezes over.
I said, screw it.
I said, screw it.
Look, I'm going to stay here.
Look, I have only one senator in my name.
I'm going to stay here.
I have only one senator.
We've got to.
We've got to.
But you're reading those.
But you're reading those.
Now it's the commission.
Now it's the commission.
Now it's the commission.
Now it's the commission.
Now it's the commission.
Now it's the commission.
What we all have to do is go in there each day, go in there each day, follow this strategy, follow this strategy, and then at the end of the day, and then at the end of the day, get together with a better report than we had for you tonight, get together with a better report than we had for you tonight on what has developed so that you
So that you know it's coming.
So on the other hand, the one thing I do want to know about is that God knows it's coming.
So on the other hand, the one thing I do want to know about is that God's damn thing.
The moment we hear about that, you come talk to me.
The moment we hear about that, you come talk to me.
I'm not that worried about it.
I'm not that worried about it.
What I think it is, what I think it is, is I'm on a bunch of crap.
I'm unsafe.
I'm on a bunch of crap.
I'm unsafe.
I really think it is.
I really think it is.
Don't you think so?
Don't you think so?
Dean, Dean, Dean was in there.
He was, uh, he couldn't have a sign.
Dean was in there.
He was, uh, he couldn't have a sign.
He couldn't have his hands up.
Huh?
He was very close to Hunter, wasn't he?
I don't know.
I don't think so.
But where the hell?
I don't know.
I don't think so.
But where the hell?
But he must have the files.
So he's probably got these on him.
So he's probably got these goddamn papers on the white one.
The goddamn hunt is.
The goddamn papers on the white one.
The goddamn hunt is.
The guy is what he's trying to nail or what he's trying to nail or what he's trying to nail or what he's trying to nail or what he's trying to nail or
But it won't be that bad.
It'll be about a hundred.
And then that bad, it'll be about his man-con.
And then his man-con will have conversations with you.
He'll have conversations with you.
He's all self-serving.
And he's all self-serving.
And he'll destroy it.
But he is really active.
The man-con's going to destroy it.
But he is really active on it.
M-Cons are nothing.
They're not even there.
Honey, honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey, honey.
Honey, honey
I just want him to know.
I just want him to know.
I just want him to know.
I just want him to know.
I just want him to know.
I just want him to know.
I don't know if I've conveyed it to you, but Glenn is just whining about this to a lot of us.
Is he really?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And he's made it on that.
Operator, Mr. Garland, I think it's the dinner that you would get in, please.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
We are very disturbed.
I was thinking, I was thinking no of that.
We have a photo of Irby Klein.
He's around.
We have a photo of Irby Klein.
He's around.
Can I forgive you for that?
Can I forgive you for that?
Sure.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
He said no, huh?
He said no, huh?
All right, I'm not hurt.
All right, I'm not hurt to get on this 24-hour-a-day deal.
I'm hurt, you know, 24-hour-a-day deal.
I'm hurt, you know, 24-hour-a-day deal.
We hit this thing hard.
Thank you.
Not saying that they've got to contract that or else, by the way.
Well, you may get a point.
Scratch your head.
Well, the president is disturbed.
We're not hitting him.
Sorry.
We're not hitting him.
Sorry.
He'll come.
I don't think you understand me.
You understand me.
I'm sure you understand me.
I'm sure you understand me.
The point that I want to make is that this is the goal of the opportunity.
This is the credit.
This is the credit.
Make it make it.
Now, do you understand?
They have made a charge.
Do you understand?
They have made a charge.
Totally and utterly untrue.
Totally and utterly untrue.
Then, then, then, for Howard Baker, for Howard Baker to play the, the, the personal animal to ask that he is, the personal animal to ask that he is, and not speak up, you know, it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous.
Now, it's, it's hard, and they, they don't want to do it, but I'm going to buy a lawsuit for $10 million against the bastards, a lawsuit for $10 million against the bastards.
You understand?
You understand?
No, no, no, no, no.
Your friend Dash and Thompson, the rest, they better understand that what is involved here is the credibility of this committee, the credibility of this committee, from no one else.
Good for you, good for you.
You understand, I agree confident with you, but goddammit, they cannot attack the President of the United States for stealing a million dollars and get away with it.
And without, and then for them not to be found.
I agree with that.
But why is it that Baker, what did he do?
Whine and cry?
He always does.
No, no.
No, there must be... Now, let me... Will you take these words down?
There must be public retraction and apology by the committee, full committee, for this libelous report and assault on the President of the United States.
It is totally untrue.
We have no... Good for you.
Good for you.
You understand.
I agree confidently with you, but God damn it, they cannot attack the President of the United States
for stealing a million dollars and get away with it.
And then for them not to be found.
I agree with that.
But why isn't it bigger?
What did he do?
Whine and cry?
He always does.
No, no, no, there must be, no, let me, will you take these words down?
There must be.
We are being treated with public retraction and apology by the committee, full committee, for this libelous report and assault on the President of the United States.
It is totally untrue.
We have no facts.
We are going to investigate immediately, investigate immediately to see what member of the staff
Now we immediately just shot down a jar.
Now, goddammit, Lane, Lane, Lane, it's tough.
It's tough.
Oh, shit.
Oh, shit.
Goddammit, the chest.
Goddammit, the chest.
I want you to repeat through him exactly what I said.
I just want him to pass on this.
I really do.
I want him to pass on this.
I really do.
Okay, boys.
Okay, boys.
All right.
All right.
Well, Len, I think there's plenty of hours.
Yeah, he's lit.
Yeah.
Well, Len, I think there's plenty of hours.
Yeah, he's lit.
Yeah, I've heard Len on the telephone with these guys.
And Glenn is not the guy.
Glenn's not the guy.
Glenn's not the guy.
Glenn is a real asset.
Glenn is a real asset.
So why does he have to pick the boners from you guys and lay the boners from you guys and lay it on?
He believes.
He believes.
He's a deeply honest, wonderful God.
He really is a deeply honest, wonderful God.
He really is a wonderful God.
Well, there you go.
on the register, on the register, that the FEP, that the FEP, that these, these retractions must be in the, retractions must be in the papers, in the papers in the morning.
I've got the money.
I've got the, damn it, let's, damn it, let's do it.
Let's do it.
Okay, okay, my God, good sir.
Okay, okay, my God, good sir.
The main thing, the main thing, you keep, you keep the faith.
That's all right, my faith.
That's all right, my faith.
That's all right, my faith.
And tell those not to look at my shoes.
I know Al, poor Al, just looks so tired today.
No, that's a good thing.
I'm really rolling this out.
Not to look at my shoes.
I know Al, poor Al, just looks so tired today.
No, it's a good shape.
I'm really rolling this out.
We're working on it.
Otherwise, it's gonna work out.
We're gonna take a hell of a lot of heat for about a month.
We're working on it.
Otherwise, it's gonna work out.
We're gonna take a hell of a lot of heat for about a month.
Take it to the heat, then we'll come back.
Take it to the heat, then we'll come back.
Okay, okay.
Okay, okay.