Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 448 › Conversation 448-005

Nixon & Kissinger on Soviet Union and Détente

Friday, June 22, 1973 · 1:51 PM–1:58 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 7 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation448-005 on Tape 448StartFriday, June 22, 1973 at 1:51 PMEndFriday, June 22, 1973 at 1:58 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 448-005 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss the successful negotiation of a new agreement with the Soviet Union, characterizing the deal as a diplomatic masterpiece. Nixon instructs Kissinger to brief the press on the significance of the agreement, emphasizing that the treaty's strength lies in the personal relationship between the leaders and the mutual commitment to avoid the use of force. They also express relief at avoiding potential congressional hurdles by deciding that formal legislative approval is not required for the treaty.

Audio

Download MP3 · 13.2 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 1 minute of this recording (about 13% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Hello?
Hello?
You were locked?
Oh yeah?
I wanted to tell you that, uh, you probably know us from breakfast and I remember talking about it.
We were trying to get you the hell off of that platform where the shaft hanged, Ricky.
And you were over on the side and you couldn't get our signal there.
Yeah, that's what you always try.
He spoke to me and he said, where's Dr. Kempner?
And I said, he's over here.
And he said, I can't, but, you know, these stupid aides never know what the hell to do.
But you should have been up there and told me you did this.
And I wanted to know this.
He mentioned it to me, and I, you know, I, of course, and I saw you over on the left.
I said, no, you were talking to foolwriters on some of those channels.
You know it's going to come off alright Henry.
What do you think?
Tell me about it.
Tell me your reaction.
Really?
That's it?
Well, from our standpoint, the treaty, from our standpoint, the treaty is a natural feature.
I mean, they agree.
I'm pretty sure they agree.
Thank God we didn't go with Roger's objection of saying that the Congress mail order is absolutely right on that.
Yeah.
Sure they are.
And if they raise the fine, they'll say it doesn't require professional approval.
Your individual support will be appreciated.
It is.
Coaches is not something.
Oh, God, he doesn't know it.
He doesn't know it.
But, you know, but basically, Henry, this is a masterpiece, you know, and this is everything, you know, but when you were talking to me, you were, you know, right?
And I, you know, Matthew, I think Kenny will really like this guy.
Ha, ha, ha.
I said, well, Mike, they may object, but let me tell you, I don't want to let it show them on.
Roger said they were, huh?
Aren't they?
What about the British?
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
It's now in your background to give this report.
Let me tell you one thing that I would like you to do.
I just spoke to Ron about this.
I'd like you to drop in the back of the plane and make a very important comment that we've just talked to the president and so forth.
And that the president has said for years that a treaty is only, or in contrast, any agreement, is only as good as the will of the parties to keep it.
In every war, I started by breaking the treaty.
Now, at this point, the important thing here is not just this agreement, the disappointment itself, but the personal relationship between the freshman and next student.
Add the whole policy barrier, which means that the will of the parties to keep it has been established.
That, gentlemen, is really what's involved here.
There is a new relationship between the leaders of the two most powerful nations, and this, it means,
The words then take consumption, because the will of one is to keep it.
If you go back and do that, and you can quote me directly, you would talk to me.
Why don't you try it?
That would make a hell of a story.
But don't you think it's a good point?
Get it.
Oh, get it.
What he said.
At least Mark got to know.
He didn't say it was American.
He said it happened.
Well, now don't you worry if some people say it isn't.
You understand.
Some have the best of intentions.
No, some of us.
They have the best of intentions.
They have the tides and the toes to fizzle.
But we don't care.
They're running against the stream of American invasion.
My God.
An agreement to prevent nuclear war in which both sides agree to not just
on some weird things, but to avoid the use of force, or trance of force against each other, or a third party to stand out, good God, that's something.
Yeah, I mean, you know, but even without that, the fact that the Soviet Union, and I'm restrained, with regard to Jordan, with regard to Israel, with regard to Jesus Christ, to read this now,
Really?
That's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's
Four years ago, five years ago, we've got, yes, two years ago, but, you know, basically, let's look at those files you're on my table today.
He's pulling right at us.
The rest of the time, the rest of the time, the rest of the time, the rest of the time, the rest of the time,
that we have come so far from where we were.
That doesn't mean, that's why I put it in a pragmatic sense, I didn't mean to go through the tidy marks or my delusions and all this stuff.
Basically, we have come so far that nobody would have predicted it, right?
Well, what we did or how we made that is,
If your expertise carried it off, you'd have listened to the next one.
Thank God that we didn't try to press that stupid one wrong.
By hell, we, first of all, the land is totally ours.
We don't want it to go to, good God, we'd have a damn debate.
Now, the minute it comes up that we should be approving the Congress, we say, no, it is not required, period.
Any other questions, gentlemen?
Okay.

NARA Description

On June 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:51 pm to 1:58 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 448-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 448-5

Date: June 22, 1973
Time: 1:51 pm - 1:58 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger

[See Conversation No. 41-43]

Also recorded on June 22, 1973

  • 041-040 1:41 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:41 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 041-041 1:45 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 1:45 pm to 1:47 pm.
  • 448-003 1:45 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:45 pm to 1:47 pm.
  • 041-042 1:47 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:47 pm and 1:51 pm.
  • 448-004 1:47 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:47 pm and 1:51 pm.
  • 041-043 1:51 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 1:51 pm to 1:58 pm.
  • 041-044 1:58 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:58 pm and 2:02 pm.
  • 448-006 1:58 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:58 pm and 2:02 pm.

All 70 conversations from June 22, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 448-005, June 22, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/448-005 (accessed October 10, 2026).