Conversation 449-004

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Good morning, Craig.

Well, you're not getting out of the light at all.

You've got to get over to the desk, Mr. Messler.

Oh, which do I do?

Oh, excuse me.

Thank you.

We, uh, come over here, Your Majesty, all right?

Our custom is always to sit in a bar against the slate.

That's fair.

And I sit here.

The usual action.

Mr. Badger, thank you very much.

And you sit here.

I'll sit here.

Thank you.

All right.

Well, I think it's quite interesting to have to advocate for protocol in view of the fact that you are such a great...

It's also the Oscar...

I've been very lucky in this, actually, before.

Yes, I'm very lucky.

Where were you in the 28th?

Oh, yeah, yes, I remember.

All right.

Thank you.

I'm going to hold that for you.

But, of course,

I think I feel I know your country because in the years that I was Vice President of the Martyrs' Service.

Yes, it is.

And I've been to that MSC, of course.

I used to be, at that time, President of Eisenhower, not Lincoln.

I did much of it.

And I was at the embassy, and every time I'd go, he'd remark, well, you're on Norwegian soil.

I'd love some time to come, because it's a beautiful country, but also because he always talked to me over the years that our way

The United States has a very good relationship with NATO.

We work very well together, NATO.

We have some problems with other countries.

But Norway, perhaps, of all the countries in that area, we seem to have a very special relationship.

And then, too, the fact that you have such a really

The people that, well, the number of Norwegian-Americans is not as large as Irish or Italian-Americans.

It's a matter of the population of Norway.

The way that people function, they live up here more than what?

Right, right, right.

When you go out through this part of the country, they're all through, particularly in my own state, California.

There are harder people than the biggest people, the football players.

Oh, yes, yes.

They went where the country was rugged and cold.

They were the kind of people who were involved in it.

All right.

That's a good time.

That's true.

Well, I understand we're going to meet the...

Yes, I'm, uh... We did prefer coffee to tea.

Or something else.

Yes, I'm going over there to Anchorage.

Yes.

Which, uh...

It's the first time that you know that the emperor's ever traveled.

And it seemed to be quite important, symbolic.

25 years after the war, it is well now to...

When you consider Japan, Japan today,

The C.N.P.

is greater than that of all the other countries in East Asia combined.

We think of China, how big it is, 800 million people.

Japan produces twice as much today.

Now the Japanese are, now a lot of the Chinese aren't productive.

You go to Hong Kong, you go to Singapore, it's not the same.

It's not the same.

But the Japanese, wow, they are, well, they're not bad.

They're all over.

Extremely self-sufficient.

Sure.

And it doesn't lie.

They're very self-sufficient.

They're very self-sufficient, of course.

Yeah.

And that's the confidence they're worth.

That's the confidence they're worth.

Aren't you rather active in that?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm active in the movement.

Well, our people, our Americans, well, they're tankers.

I know the same thing.

They're the big tankers.

That's right.

Is there anything I might do to look at that?

That size?

Yes.

I'll tell you.

It's really something to see.

The, uh...

The way that it's, you know, in terms of our... Our...

This is a period when there will be inevitably some strains between the European community, well basically the great industrial nations, but it's inevitable that they won't actually be adjusted.

They have to be adjusted.

And what we hope to do is to have the adjustment be one that will lead to a permanent

or can we say a viable, permanent system rather than one that is simply subject to the crisis atmospheres that we have been living in for at least the last 10 or 15 years?

Yes, there is.

But I particularly want to emphasize this.

We try to do our talks to our... We...

We in this country, I particularly feel that we, to keep our economic ties, as well as our political ties, close to our friends in Europe.

I know this is so important.

I hope that we don't end up like this.

I don't know about that.

And we're not going to.

It's a hard bargain.

And that's a victory for Enzo.

Yes, it should be.

Do you know what you're talking about?

That one.

He competed with Mosbacher, you know.

Yeah, that's right.

Mosbacher and Enzo.

Yeah.

I don't know if he competed with the Kings.

He just had two solid weeks.

Yeah.

Is this the good one that you're saying?

I don't know.

I've been satisfied with it.

No storms?

No storms.

They told me they'd get one.

It ended up in the rain.

Quite a lot of it.

There's not a nice way to get out of California.

I had a story where I was a sailor.

But you know, to be honest, this thing, most of the, well, we didn't want to draw the copy of that.

Look at how that is.

They got all these spots on there.

I can see why they have to be in good shape.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,

It's slow most of the time.

Even .

People tell me why they aren't responsible.

There's a platform that I would have to use, which should be 50 feet, 60 feet, to go to the road.

Yeah, that's true.

It's a rule.

That's why you're in the middle of the hill.

You're saying it's a rule.

It's a rule.

When it's on its own, it depends on the man about to walk the line and make a trip to the end of the road.

Yeah, I see.

So that's the case.

That's what I'm talking about.

I don't know.

I don't know if that's the problem.

I don't know.

Thank you, Jim.

It's more of an accident.

What's going on?

I'm supposed to be on fire.

I said it's everything.

I'm supposed to be on fire.

He's a great sailor.

Australia, I'm sure.

Australia was the one on the air before us.

Yeah.

There's that.

Yeah, there's that.

Yeah, do you remember the story?

No, I don't remember the story.

My son-in-law was raised in Australia.

And I remember being left on the field.

The first time I came back, I was in Thailand.

You've been to Bangkok, haven't you?

No, I've been to Bangkok.

But then I came back.

I would say South Island and New Zealand, which I have only seen.

Well, Tommy has almost made Memphis.

And I've had more Americans who've gone out there.

Usually they're often more of a person than a captain, and that's the hard part.

And it's great.

It's like Ireland.

We're good in Ireland.

We've just got these magnificent mountains.

waterfalls, and people there, well, I would say they're more rich than British.

I see what it is.

They're not just called New Zealanders.

They're not just called Austrians.

They're sort of a cross between American and, you know, well, I'd say a cross between Texans.

New Zealand is a very great, wonderful people.

It's culture.

That's the word.

It's culture.

There's a different calling.

There's a different culture.

Oh, I see.

That's one reflection.

That's why the New Zealander tends to be somewhat more reserved.

He tends to be somewhat more of a mediocrity.

He's a total extrovert.

Well, he's a mediocrity.

Whereas the New Zealander is more of a, wait a minute, they're right in this respect.

But he's a, he's a mediocrity.

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

Yeah, well, first of all, you have to watch your head.

I hate to admit that, but I mean, no, that's not...

No, I think of all the places I want to go, but that's the...

I'm going to go to Norway.

I've been to Denmark.

1964.

1964, yes.

I must go to...

Yes, he was here.

He assisted every president, I think, or more presidents in any world.

I don't know whether he saw Roosevelt.

Did he or no?

I don't think so.

Well, he, uh...

The world we live in, I suppose, is changing so much.

It's changing so much.

And it's opening up, some of you know.

Yes.

It seems to be opening up for the rest of our time.

I know that.

yesterday who was a very strong supporter of the timeline, as we are, because they've been on our front three years, and so what?

They have a great, pretty, the deconvillage is highly competitive in Ireland, I expect.

The point is, we kind of have a situation where 800 million people

who are potentially the most productive people in the world.

If you look at Chinese, what they've done in Hong Kong, what they've done in Singapore, what they've done in Bangkok, that's Chinese.

That's Chinese.

They've made a lot of money from Chicago, used to be.

Manila has had Chinese.

What they've done in Hawaii, when you look at San Francisco, you're on.

When you look at what Chinese do around the world, you see those 800 days.

What they're gonna be in the future, or not today, but what they could be 15, 20 years from now,

It seems to me it became vitally important that the Soviet could not take the step, because their differences are impressively irreconcilable, that the United States must take a step now, which would not settle the differences.

They're going to be very wide, very, all of this talk about it, but 15 to 20 years from now, China will be a very significant nuclear power to have the United States and China

not talking about the differences, but fighting about them would be, or potentially fight, but wouldn't be too much of a danger to leaving the world.

That's what it is about.

It's rather ironic that we, the United States,

the great imperialists did not.

They didn't say they had to do it.

They would have to do it, because so you can't do it.

No, they, because of the differences they had.

So, they didn't say.

But the point is that we have to understand this for what it is we're listening.

It is not, some of the rather naive people think it's not going to change the world.

It's going to mean that they're going to give up their desires or designs for their, their,

Expansion of the world, but it doesn't mean we're going to change our policies.

What it does mean, though, are these great areas of potential difference, areas that are in control once you start talking about it.

And not eventually you, maybe as a community, eventually it opens up even today on the basis of the Soviet Union.

And when you go there, your president is really a, by our standards, a co-society.

But when you compare the Soviet today

with what it was, well, when I was first there

It's a lot more old than it was, to a greater degree.

But that's important.

Of course it's important, not because of the end of the system, but because the Russian people are people that are going to have a lot to do with the future of the world.

And they're strong, they're the strongest people.

They're good people to know.

And so is with the Chinese.

But having said that, I think it's also very important that we in this country are trying to establish a dialogue with those who have not been our friends, or the friends of the free world, that we do so at the same time.

We are quite aware of the absolute necessity

So with all of our friends in Europe and the other Greek nations, we have these contacts.

So there are some parts of communications that I think you sort of get this as well.

It's not true.

So this is the role we have to play.

Can I do it as well, sir?

Yeah.

All right, can I do it?

It wasn't there.

I think just after they installed it.

It might be there.

There is.

I'd be less than candid if I were not to tell you that among many of our labor leaders, among some of our business leaders, among many of our politicians,

uh, who are terribly frustrated by the U.S. role in the world, and they look at the problems here, they would like to go, shall we say, to America.

This cannot happen.

It wouldn't be good for the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

That means we will have to evolve our whole capabilities.

You don't have to evolve your capabilities by competing in the world without them.

That's the last thing there.

You're the opposite, Richard.

You're saying that the Chinese are still going.

Sure.

Oh, I don't get it.

That's true.

And they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don

It's a very good mountain.

Well, I don't know where you're from, but anyway, you're going to be delivered to the United States as one of the happiest of the world.

Well, I guess we have too much rain on us.

Don't you worry about that.

It's a shame.