Conversation 449-008

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Hi, Paul, how are you?

I'm delighted to see you tonight.

There's not any time since you've gone inside tonight.

Did you change the bed?

I didn't change the bed.

I'm just comfortable waiting on you.

Let's get a picture over here.

One here and one sitting.

No, no, no.

You're going now, you sit there all day, all night, all day, all night.

My wife is, she is.

I don't know if you want to sit here.

Thank you.

Why do you look fine?

I'm just trying to look fine.

I don't know what's going on.

I'm not married to you, but I'm sorry.

I'm just saying you're the best.

years of discussions together, particularly the last 52, if you remember, on the train and everything, and the conventions.

Gosh, it seems like a generation ago.

Well, it was a generation ago, 52 down here.

I saw Stig Lauer the other night.

Stig Lauer.

Yeah.

And we were talking about Stig was a great, great social strength.

In other words, he had two of these people working for him.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't suppose anybody could prove that things were digital, but we did have a scheme of order.

And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

And I remember, uh, too, that, uh, Jimmy Brown, he was called.

Oh, yes, he was.

He got him up there with his, uh, white gloves, you know, beating him, because he didn't, I was not in administration.

And I had to be there to meet him, and I had to go out.

Well, I'm so sorry.

There is some exciting time.

There's very exciting time.

Of course there's exciting time.

The, uh, I, I never talked with him again until that time.

Did he?

No.

He, uh, he, not the person I had ever expected him to be.

And one of the conditions that he set for his support was neither Tom Dooley or I should ever be in the cabin.

Oh, yes.

Oh, Dooley.

It would be fine, because as far as I was concerned, I had no desire to go back to California.

I told him.

Thank you.

I'll be thinking back on the thing.

That nomination of Eisenhower was not because he was weak.

In other words, he was a prophet.

Oh, yes.

He was a prophet, yes, a prophet.

That's right.

But if Tappan ever stood up and said there was any question about any of these questions, I really want to know.

You couldn't have stopped that campaign.

Thank you.

You couldn't have stopped that program from establishing that convention.

Because the convention wanted it.

The convention wanted it.

They were two-thirds of it wanted it.

But there's only been just one thing that we've not done yet.

It's for an editorial.

It's an editorial post.

Which said, in essence, how stupid do the Republican Party really seem?

and not nominate West Eisenhower.

And we distributed a copy to most of every delegate.

And our only plea was to do Kennewick.

And Louie Kennewick.

That was my reason.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Kennewick.

And the other thing was that it, uh...

It, uh...

And it worked out, as it should, because if Tapp died, and Tapp, who would he have as vice president for the most?

Well, I had good respect for him.

It wasn't that I could respect him.

But national programs, I think that he, except the only thing that really scared the life out of me, while we were in London, very finally, Bill was up for Congress.

I was talking to one of the students, and I said, you know, I said, I think we've got to fix the fact that in the post-war period of World War I, unless we have 55 million jobs against the 40-odd million we had before the war, we're going to have trouble in the United States.

And that means that we've got to reconvert fast.

That's what it means.

And I said, I think that we can, we are on the way toward that.

He said, I think you're being, you're quite ridiculous.

He told you that?

I told you about 55 million jobs.

He said, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

Well, I said, Mr.

Senator, I said, he found me.

He said, which some young men and women want to work.

You know, he used to get right behind the ears if he could disagree with me.

And he said, well, he said, I'll tell you.

I'll tell you.

I have no sympathy, whatever, with your program.

But the main thing that I felt concerned about was not the domestic stuff, where actually he was an expert on labor and a lot of other things.

But I felt that Chad did not have

enough interest in and enough knowledge about the world.

I felt at that time that America had to have a president who, with the disillusionment of our, that was setting in because of Korea and everything, who could lead us in that period.

And Eisenhower is the only one who could do it.

That's all.

I felt the same way.

It was the way to go on.

Eisenhower is the only man that had both respect and affection.

and the people of the world.

And I thought that we had that.

That was interesting.

The world not just, give us this phrase, I don't know how pressed you are, and my heart goes out to you.

I want to say two things.

I'll give you the reason why I retired in 1968.

Yes, 68.

A hundred years ago.

13 years ago.

About 13 years ago.

Oh, 58.

60.

58.

When Howard Schold asked me to come back, I would not accept his response.

He said he wanted me to punch a clock in the morning and evening.

I agreed to come back for two years, not a day longer.

But the reason I did was that I had a solid reason for going.

And number one, I did not think, I did think rather, that we'd have a much better chance for peace in the world with the strength of the UN.

Much better chance, I can guarantee you that.

Secondly, and this I think is important, I thought the way to strengthen the UN was with a great expansion of its economic and social activities.

In other words, the peacekeeping is important, but to give solid backing, the foundation of peacekeeping, you have to simply have to have a very strong hold on the work through economic and social activities.

At that time, the only program the United Nations had, all the programs, specialized agencies, and the extended program ran to about $60 million.

And it was, we weren't, the United Nations was not important, whatever.

So I thought we could build on it, economic and social.

Two programs together at $54 million.

He said, what do you think you have to add to make the United States really important in the development field?

Well, I said, I've been thinking in terms of maybe $300 million.

The resources were from a program, a long program of 600 million.

And he said, well, he said, I've been thinking that we ought to encourage 400 million.

This sounds ridiculous, but we only have 54.

Well, we've come.

We've come from 54 million.

And this year, this year, 71, I don't know what, you know, over 250 million to work with.

The program itself will be about 550 million dollars.

And I think today that the UNDP is recognized as a pre-investment freedom.

Because I've told them, I've talked about it many times, that you have only the advantage over me.

Now, you go to a country to ask for money, you ask for so much, they already have the money.

And I ask for so little.

I've got to fight so that I don't get the no down the line.

And I said, after all these, we're going to be niggers and dimes.

And you'll need lots of money for investment.

What there hasn't been is distinction between investment and pre-investment.

But I'm not going to tell you that the safe and sound investment depends upon how much pre-investment work is done.

In other words, the key to development is what is pre-investment?

How do you distinguish it?

Well, pre-investment is all the activities it takes

to create a basis for investment.

This means education.

It means also surveys.

It means a whole galaxy of things you have to do.

In order to be in the face, you go to a country and you've got to find out what that country is.

In other words, we have a big field.

We are the only worldwide field organization.

We have 95 field offices.

Why?

Because it became very evident to me, as it was during the Marshall Plan, that we can't understand a country, its morals, its attitudes, its traditions, unless you have someone in the country

And we have this far-flung field organization.

It's very tough to know what it is.

I know what the country's attitudes are.

So in planning a program of inputs in the pre-investment technical assistance field, you plan in view of their situation as it is.

And there's nothing more impossible than to plan a program in New York or up in Guadalcanal.

You've got to be a number one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see that.

You've got to be a number one.

Oh my God, yes.

That's the one.

The thing is, I always have to be a number one.

Now, the thing that I had in my next life, I want to say to all of you members, is that I'm not speaking for myself.

I'm speaking for my successor.

I've been around the world.

I've been to Japan.

I've been to Germany.

I've been to France.

I've been to Great Britain.

trying to raise money for 1972.

And the first question asked is, what is the United States going to do?

Now, you are good enough to recommend $100 million.

See, we've been growing a lot.

Last year, we grew 7%.

Our average growth is about 10% to 15% a year.

We've got to keep on growing.

I just got through a week of work going through the January program.

We have the biggest program we ever had.

We'll have a bigger program.

We have a big program with you.

We haven't got the resources to handle it today.

We haven't been able to draw reserves, which we have.

We must keep on going.

In other words, he has gotten to have that $100 million and no proof, because that represents

$16, $14 million from last year.

It's peanuts.

Nothing.

It's the yeast in the local bread.

Unless you get that, we're going to be, whoever succeeds me, is going to be faced with declining resources, not expanding resources.

And I've done all I can, and I will continue to do all I can, to see that it gets off to a good start.

And I say that I've got the key of this thing.

The House Foreign Affairs Committee recommended $100 million.

No problem with Senate.

We'll get approval from the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

We'll get approval from the Senate for the $100 million.

And we'll appreciate that.

There's one man who has a poison product, and that's autopestic.

And I can tell you, in many contexts, that autopestic, the one man who thoroughly respects, is the President of the United States.

If you would say a word to autopestic, this is peanuts.

Say a word.

He's soft and a goodie of mine, the three or four years I've been dealing with him.

Has he?

Yes, he is.

Well, he's a decent man.

He's a very, very good man.

He believes in our heads going to pot because we've lost our self-demand.

He's kind of a boy.

I know his wife's story.

Word by word, I've heard it several times.

Yeah, yeah.

And he doesn't believe in any reading.

He doesn't leave a part of the League on us, and the United States of the League on the government.

Well, of course, it's a nice idea, and it does work in a modern society.

But if, along the line, you could be willing to just let Cherokee be known to a lot of pests.

I was sitting down at home today at lunch.

I think we'd be in there, we'd be over the 100th reason we're going to lunch.

We've got to have it.

And John's always been friendly, but John has his own program to think about.

His own program.

He talks about it.

The thing is, I don't need any money.

For my success, not for me.

In other words, I want my successor to get off to a good start.

That's why the one ambition I have left as far as he went, he had nothing to do with me.

Because January 15th, I'm stepping out.

January 15th, somebody else is taking over.

And I think I'm hoping he's the piece.

Yeah, well, he's the man.

And I have talked to him.

I think Rudy's a good man.

He's a good man.

He knows the world.

He knows the business and so forth.

He looks outward rather than inward, which is good.

I would appreciate it if you give him all those services.

I'm sure you will.

Well, I have 40,000 services.

Oh, you know that, John.

It's like studying the world.

Well, I've had a number of talks with Rudy.

I told him, of course, I don't applaud my success.

That's the point.

I'm concerned.

My first choice would have been, I told him, it was David Marsh.

He knows this damn system.

This is David Morse's view.

It won't be David Morse because we don't think David Morse really wants the job.

But as far as you're concerned, I would do all I know.

To make the transition easy, we have gone through a restructuring.

I say, I'll give you only one or two, because I want to get the reorganization.

Restructuring is going to go to a billion dollars by 75, which is a total of a billion dollars, which means $450, $500 million in sources can be done.

And it's happy finding the world.

And I'm not kidding myself.

And I say, I'm not kidding myself.

This is the key to development, is to get the right amount of technical assistance to be in person when we're done.

And you've got to touch down with Congress.

Because, unfortunately, the word foreign has been attached to it.

And foreign is a dirty word.

Sure is.

A dirty word.

Yes, it is.

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Well, at the day of the mission, you take the area of trade.

I was remarking to a group of X and a little cat around there, and so I'm sure that they were talking about that.

you know, not to have tariffs and quotas and so forth.

And I said, you know, that's true.

I said, you know, the constituency for liberalized trade has shrunk.

The labor leader, Ken Sample, that worked 425 years, he worked 10 since then.

And they are just, you know, they talk about the cheap place for the fraud, and they talk about quotas, and they talk about, they don't want to have them on what they call these,

These American, what do you call them, multinational companies and so forth, they say it's wrong for an American client to have a subsidiary abroad.

And you go on and on and on and on.

And that's happened.

Some of the business people have become that way because they have lost their will to compete.

A lot of drivers from the Senate have reflected because, well, some are concerned about tech.

I was concerned about shoes.

I was concerned about automobiles, of course.

So, now, that doesn't mean that we run with the kills, but it does mean that we have to find a way to buy a little time to get on a mark on a basis where the United States doesn't build a wall around itself.

The worst thing that could happen to this country would be to

give in to the, on a permanent basis, to the very strong economic isolationist trend which is in this country.

Because what would happen is not only would it have problems, meet, have problems, and so on and so forth, but more importantly

It'll do something to America.

When a nation builds a wall around itself, the King of Norway had just sent me a very good point.

He said, look what happened to the Chinese.

1,000 years ago, they built the Great Wall of China.

At that time, they had one of the greatest civilizations in the world.

From that time on, they never moved.

By building the wall and keeping the rest of the world out, I mean, the rest of the world went by.

Now, without that from the United States, we've got to stay in there.

We've got to keep competing.

Can I tell you about that story?

I think it illustrates the importance of economic social work and the fact that, in supporting political activities, a strengthened economic and social program is vital.

Here's another story.

I was in Thailand about six or seven years ago, and a man named Sir Rat was playing next to me.

Yeah.

He was a tough guy.

I remember him very briefly.

Oh, he was very tough.

And Prince Surya had been in the...

Probably, probably only.

Oh yes, oh yes, very good.

That's what I'm saying, you know.

And first of all, you've been in Japan.

And first of all, I made some remark for a 50-second, I was there for the purpose of organizing a meeting in Mount Pan on the people, the ministers who are interested in developing the Mekong Valley.

And in the paper in the morning, in the statement of Sirat, about the statement of President Shinzo,

That little, little record should not talk about big, big tigers out in the lakes.

Well, I thought that was always up to me.

Not the minister.

I was the minister.

The people down at the minister's house, all men and non-men, had the meeting.

They were interested in developing a bank on the valley.

It made no difference.

There's a battle going on between the prince and the prince.

Well, we can work.

We work with everybody.

We don't get involved.

We don't get involved in ideology.

I think that we can say we're a unifying influence.

You bring no political strength.

No.

Which they're very sensitive about, I know.

No, we don't.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

There's a real chance within half a century, maybe a century, to bring about one economic growth.

And the way to peace in the world is to build one economic world, not to try to build one political world because it can't be done.

I'm sure, I'm sure of that.

That's a very, very good point.

I've been, I've been funny on here for 25 years.

You can't break it up completely.

It can't be broken.

It may never happen.

Maybe it should happen.

Yeah.

But what should happen is we've got to break by.

This is, and then I'll come, I must say this now.

We've got two objectives.

One was to go.

And the second was to create a common market.

Because a common market meant no wars.

Well, we certainly had the recovery of all the common markets.

There would be no wars.

Now, that happened.

And that was the great accomplishment to accomplish the market program.

And the second, over the long, but more important than the first.

And you were there, too.

I was there.

You were the beginning.

Yeah, I was there.

Number one.

What a great experience.

You've had quite a life, haven't you?

You have any regrets?

No, not about that, though.

No, not about the Marshall Plan.

Well, Steve, you started that.

You started that.

You came on the Marshall Plan.

You came on the world scene.

But you've had something to do with also many people, Paul, who take business executives who reach retirement age.

I can imagine one of the most frustrated mad people in the world, you know, they're 60, 65 years of age, and there's still got a lot of them bigger, and what do they do?

They got to go play golf and pitch.

They say, geez, how I love to play golf and pitch.

After about a month, they hit it.

I think.

Somebody said to me, what are you going to do?

I've got 15,000.

I'm going to get a quarter of my grandchild.

Somebody said to me, my wife said, for one week, that's enough.

Then we'll, then we'll, yeah, get you, get you, yeah.

Well, maybe.

The president's not going to get some damn much to do with you now, December 30th.

I'm trying to get this game done.

Don't worry.

And that's not the other time.

Thank you so much.

I'm going to meet the International Credit Conference.

Also, this is an international event.

It's going to be a complicated couple of terms.

It's going to take a long time.

I hope you can send me a few words.

Presidential complex.

That's for you.

Oh, that's nice.

And, uh, also, do you think of all functions?

No, it's not like that.

There you go.

Fifteen years ago, I decided, like, oh, good night, enjoy it.

There's your dog.

I had to enjoy it.

I made a very bad dog.

So do I.

There's your paperweight.

Yes, sir.

These all have the presidential seal on them.

All right.

Here's the one.

That's an old one.

It's a little tight end, and that's the same.

This is all sealed.

That's the one.

That's what it is.

You know, it's the first, the first wrecking that I've ever had in the United States of America.

That's right, that's right.

Thank you very much.

You know, it's the, uh, how the road has changed, actually, since I was here.

The Europe has always had, or most probably has had a white rug, and he had one then.

Stephen was always there.

You know, we're talking to Stephen, too.

When we came here, you know, a white carpet is great for the first day, and it's horrible because people come in and it just cramps and it doesn't get, it's no good.

So, and also over the days, the color's always different.

So having this thing, this is lonely someplace, with the gold and blue, and that's the difference.

Thank you, Bob.

Thank you.