Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 451 › Conversation 451-023

Nixon & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Laos

Thursday, February 18, 1971 · 6:16 PM–6:37 PM ET · Oval Office · 21 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation451-023 on Tape 451 (tape position 04:36:26–04:57:13)StartThursday, February 18, 1971 at 6:16 PMEndThursday, February 18, 1971 at 6:37 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 451-023 ↗

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to assess the military situation in Vietnam and Laos, specifically focusing on the progress of South Vietnamese operations and the necessity of maintaining resolve despite potential political backlash. The discussion touched upon the performance of South Vietnamese forces, the tactical effectiveness of current bombing missions, and the long-term strategic prospects for the region. Additionally, they expressed concerns regarding perceived internal opposition and ideological dissent within the government, particularly referencing figures like Morton Halperin and Tony Lake.

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Position in tape: 04:36:26 – 04:57:13

part C, 33:32

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On February 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:16 pm to 6:37 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 451-023 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 451-23

Date: February 18, 1971
Time: 6:16 pm - 6:37 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger

     Vietnam
          -Military developments
          -Troop deployment
          -Tactical situation
          -Melvin R. Laird
          -President’s view of war
                -Presidential election
          -Bombing
                -Missions
          -Khe Sanh
          -Laos
                -North Vietnamese losses
                -South Vietnamese Army
                      -Effect

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[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-020. Segment declassified on 10/10/2018. Archivist: MAS]
[National Security]
[451-023-w001]
[Duration: 41s]

      Vietnam
            -Plan to use Cambodian troops
                    -Behind Vietnamese troops
            -Lon Nol
                    -US occupation

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      Vietnam
         -Troops
               -Reserves
                     -General Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
         -Helicopter losses
               -Admiral Thomas H. Moorer
Show the rest of the log (60 more lines)
               -Laos operation
         -Communist influence in United States’ government
               -John W. Gardner
                     -Morton H. Halperin
               -William A. K. (“Tony”) Lake
                     -Edmund S. Muskie
               -Halperin
                     -Role on Kissinger’s staff
              -Gardner
                     -Lyndon B. Johnson’s comment
         -Kissinger’s forthcoming luncheon with John Dutton
         -Gardner
         -Effect of liberal positions on the war
         -South Vietnamese military activity
              -Laos
                     -Progress
               -Future prospects

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number LPRN-T-MDR-
2014-020. Segment exempt per Executive Order 13526, 3.3(b)(1) on 04/30/2019. Archivist:
MAS]
[National Security]

[451-023-w002]
[Duration: 2m 43s]

     VIETNAM, ITALY

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

******************************************************************************

     The Vice President
          -Possible foreign trip
               -President’s view
                     -Priority
                           -Laos operation

     Vietnam
          -Kissinger’s conversation with Joseph C. Kraft
               -President compared with Democrats
                     -Hubert H. Humphrey
               -1968 election
                     -Danger of radicals on policy
                     -George C. Wallace
                     -Ronald W. Reagan

     Peace prospects
          -Kissinger’s suggestions
               -Forthcoming meeting with Le Duc Tho
               -Withdrawal
                -Cease-fire
                -Prospects
          -Bombing
          -General Nguyen Van Thieu agreement

Kissinger left at 6:37 pm

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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We are ready to begin this first trip.
Until now, it was a 30-hour trip.
But you know what I heard a tiny part of it.
It is still a 30-hour trip, and I think that's the realest thing I've ever seen.
It's on our eyes.
It's like a see-through.
So imagine that we could do all of these things that we don't need to reward the people.
Instead of taking one careful step at a time, at any pace for one whole generation, you have to work hard to have peace.
I will tell you the most beautiful thing.
Not as a man trying to get it, but as one of those miracles who saw the truth in the Lord his Son, and who stayed on beyond the general age of his time.
By his example,
The girls in hell think the world is sick of their idealists.
I follow next.
I'm not a hero, but the idealists are nice.
Leave the idealists.
It's a record.

— 1 min 10 s with no transcribed speech —

delimited by truth, by matter, delimited by the difficulty of access.
And, uh, and, uh, takes that profit himself by putting the Chinese in there.
If we went north, if we landed in Hong Kong, or if we landed in Vinh, or something like that, then it's conceivable.
I don't think that's the presence of consensus they've come up with.
But if I had a duty now, yeah.
Oh, they moved back in here, didn't they?
Oh, yeah.
They are practically coming in again in time for the future because they're part of the intelligence.
Are they still confused?
Are they walking out of there?
No, that's what they're going to do.
Well, now they're pretty sure what it is and they're moving it whenever they can.
Well, they're still putting in some, they're not moving anyone from the coast.
But again, they tried one and they're trying another one tonight.
They did one and they're doing another one tonight.
Now, some people scream that that's a violation of the understanding.
I'm sorry, Ian, because they're technically part of me.
But I mean to suspect that he did violate the understanding of me with that.
Oh, I see.
I see.
And they're probably in the sand.
Yeah, but all the tax would sell for most of the time.
What do they do when you go to jail?
They fix bids.
They exactly claim they sank eight bids last time.
I don't know if that's true.
Well, they've got one more schedule.
It's already open.
And I am, that's all that's authorized.
What's the reaction?
Well, I hear people, people watching in France, they all feel the same.
Have they been fine?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Laird is a funny guy.
He's numerous like a main cast member, but his tricks are really dumb.
He can taste it.
And he's also loyal to you, trainer.
My mother-in-law, she said he's a rascal, but I'm calling her a rascal.
I didn't do it.
I'm listening now.
I got it from Lucy.
That's over.
She looked it up.
We can't leave him out.
We can't leave him out.
We can't leave him out.
For us, you can't control the city.
It's not going to get out of there.
And the city would be, I guess, not going to be one of the judges.
It's not going to be us.
We have to lose the election, but we're not going to lose this war.
That's my view.
I'm very excited to be a part of this.
I thought the weather hadn't been off at all, but for the next three days, it's expected to be perfect.
It's perfect now.
And there's something that they're putting every 52 days down in there.
They're putting track pairs.
I think 150 yards of the front line crew.
And those are our enemies.
And they're running on these...
It's going to be awfully tough for them to take this mountain.
They took it as a mountain in case I'm three years ago today.
And they're going to run for us.
That's what's going to happen.
of a lot of their troops.
That's going to be, if it's still done, I don't know, but the press is going to try to cut it down.
And many of us should be over.
And if they are, if they keep their hopes cut, they are going to tell them the job operation is going extremely well.
Yes, everybody's free.
That's why I'm
If they would roll over and fly 10 miles from their point, then, uh, they'd be completely through.
On the other hand, all of the units they're gonna lose out there, he, uh, will not be available for an offensive next year.
The future itself is East by 12.
They're going to be battling it for years to come.
I guess if they fight well, North Vietnam can never be South Vietnam.
Never.
Because North South Vietnam has more people than North.
That's more equipment for us.
Those three members will be at the end of this supply line.
The geography will work against it.
We've just got to stay cool now and shove in whatever reserves are needed.
It's going to be tough, and we'll need the strong will the next few weeks.
It'll be a panicky moment.
But I think, having taken drives, we ought to stay in there now.
and took their energy, dug up their energy from the stars, and just threw them up.
We got it all taken in terms of being able to stay at home.
And Moro gave me some statistics today of helicopter losses, but actually they lost only six more helicopters last week than in the
I wonder...
I wonder...
Thank you, sir.
They sort of trust us.
The leaders can't all get together and go at the same time.
They aren't all going together here.
And so it's even more quiet.
What I'm beginning to think, who I'm going to tell, who are subject to communism, but they're all going down.
Exactly.
I'm sorry, sir.
I'm sorry, Tony.
Tony's got his fans at Helter, who used to be on my stand for three months.
He was...
She made an argument, yes.
And at some moment, I understood that some memos that Halcyon wrote for me.
He was trying to butter me up.
He is John Halcyon.
Son of a bitch.
What I can do is that I find Halcyon in her life.
He must use his name to play the piece.
I know he must be curious that the slave is caught down in the war.
But he's certainly not in charge of polytheistic research, which is what he thought he was going to be.
And I don't think Blake is, A, he's a bit heavy.
B, his knowledge is not very out of date.
Helga doesn't have any insight on this anyway because he was across the street writing think papers for me.
He didn't even see any documents.
As I said, I got rid of him in July of 69.
But Halton is probably the saddest of the list.
You know, I know.
I heard that he is.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That is a tragedy.
At one stage, I thought God meant the potential for a National Council.
Uh, here at your house, there's a driver.
The driver came in.
He's got a smoking crack again.
He said he just heard a door open at the gate.
He won't be in the water.
He can't help it.
He's got a knock on the counter.
He's just left his mind.
He can't stop it.
He hit it in the mouth.
Two seconds.
He can't do that.
I think he's got it.
He won't be in the water again.
He said he can't do it.
He won't be moving that way.
He's not going to get out.
And so, you know, to save your policy is a policy that leads to more war.
One is that if they have the guns to save, then get out.
But then they don't have the guns to save.
It's a pity to see a man of this kind in a covered house.
Henry's in New York.
You gotta see him financially.
And he, uh, I have noticed that that's the only guy with a sign that's financing him.
Stein is a way left, you know.
Yeah.
How exciting it is to just pass him three times 11.
These other investments you made, you got two.
Yeah, well, Stein isn't anything to hear.
Stein, one of the richest men in the country.
He needs to go get a job.
Oh, yeah.
So far, they have.
And, uh, the, uh, but I think it's minus 72 degrees.
I didn't see it all over this government.

— 3 min 1 s with no transcribed speech —

You mentioned some of our friends.
This is quite a surprise.
I think it's not.
I think we don't need any additional cabinets on the bed, I'm sure.
I don't think it's the time.
I think we're going to be getting lost.
That's what I think.
If we're just saying things to our students, it's very sad.
You know, I just wanted to give you a hand out a little.
I can't do what that is.
You know what I mean?
I told Sandler this.
I said, I love you.
And I said, can you really feel that if there was a democracy in this country, wouldn't Victoria be?
He asked me, wouldn't you have?
I said, the thing you never get that it's for is you've kept it right in this country related to this, to the government.
We're in an all normal situation.
uh, if anyone else had had to do this difficult thing.
And, uh, so you'll still turn out to be the best protection of the students who are riding against you, even though they'll never thank you for it.
Because the alternative to you in 1916 was not a liberal Democrat, but, uh, a Wallace or a Reagan.
  • 451-016 3:40 PM · 23 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:40 pm and 3:52 pm.
  • 451-017 3:40 PM · 40 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:40 pm and 3:52 pm.
  • 451-018 3:52 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mark I. Goode met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:52 pm to 3:55 pm.
  • 451-019 3:55 PM · 1 hr 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, George P. Shultz, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:55 pm to 4:52 pm.
  • 451-020 5:10 PM · 34 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:10 pm to 5:14 pm.
  • 451-021 5:14 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:14 pm and 5:25 pm.
  • 451-022 5:14 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:14 pm and 5:25 pm.
  • 451-024 6:40 PM · 43 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:40 pm to 7:27 pm.

Conversation 451-023, February 18, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/451-023 (accessed November 2, 2026).