Conversation 471-009

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Hi, Harry.

How are you?

Hello, my friend.

It's really nice to see you.

Nice to see you as well.

Sit down.

Thank you.

How are you tonight?

Busy up there?

No bus here?

Well, I don't know.

Temporarily anyway.

Yeah, it's a lovely day.

I'll be there in seven to change these days.

My man's going to visit me every morning.

I'm going to just go around and see.

He was talking about the Southerners.

He said the Southerners are the problem with the filibuster.

He said the Sparks, fires, people like that, they're all the filibuster.

They're not good as all the Southerners are.

Well, they weren't.

They weren't bad.

No, I thought those were the issues.

It's like the rules go on and on.

I know your own strong statements that you've made on the SSG, and I know they're based on your calculations.

Uh, I did watch a video and I wanted to know a little bit, uh, the deal of this, you know, the argument was about, uh, the course was, you know, about the U.K. principle and you've been very consistent to those principles and these great traditions you have and you're following and you're firing into the,

would be and should be a private project, which will be supported by.

I'm greatly concerned, and I would apply this to space, and I'd apply it to SST, and I'd apply it to any

new breakthrough industrially or scientifically about the United States and the present situation where we're dropping on a race.

If the United States drops off,

for any reason, maybe because we're concerned about the ecologies on the surface, maybe because of the economics, even in spite of the fact that every other nation, of course, does provide the assumption, to get it clear, that the question is whether or not in areas like this, we can compete without it.

But the broader question is that we look at the

Great nations, their histories, their leaders,

They reach a certain pinnacle of whether it's exploring new continents or advances in scientific support, and then stop.

And they recede.

There's a retrogression that sets in.

Now, we are far from that point.

But the point is that I feel very strongly, I want you to know, this is my major reason for supporting this issue.

The economics to me is important.

I think, I agree, I believe that my, you know, based on everything, I think it's going to be, it's going to be full.

I believe that...

will be and aren't feasible, I think, to, as the scientists make a point, you do each one directionally, you go to another one, and so forth and so on, all this kind of ecology, I think, is answered by the fact that these are prototypes and they don't turn out.

So we won't need to know that.

But the more important is that for the United States to drop out of a, with even all our enormous other problems of grave competition, and with the Soviet Union,

I cannot support him.

And it's on that basis, it's basically, it's national defense.

It's the nation's position in the world.

It's our prestige, if you want to use that term.

It's any of that.

These are the things.

And I wanted you to know what I thought about it.

I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you, and I appreciate your position on it.

I've taken, rightly or wrongly, I've taken a consistent position on it for five years.

And of course, the number is the one reason I felt the government was being called upon to put up too much of the development costs, 85 to 90%.

And I think that it's one, while it's desirable, it's not an essential item at this time with the inflation being extensive.

So a combination of those and to a much lesser extent the environment, I think, overlets it.

The way you've been talking about the performance.

I think it would be very unwise for me to shift my position.

After being this way for five years and having talked about it during the campaign, having written at least four or five hundred letters in opposition to it over the last few weeks, I think it would put me in a very awkward light to shift my position at this point.

Well, it may, if it could.

I'm aware of that, and I know that you have taken this position.

As I said, I want to thank you for being so strongly about it, and I wanted you to know that you've come down to the line there.

Yes, sir.

I hadn't gotten so deeply committed on the thing.

There was something relatively new, but to have been opposed to it for five years and change it to last minute is going to be a little awkward, I believe.

You will be appointed.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss it.

I think that I'm getting very aggravated with the abuses you're taking over Vietnam.

We're not giving you credit for what you've done.

You've done a terrific job there.

It's got to come out around.

That's the main thing.

And we'll have another announcement in April.

And we'll see why all of this worked.

Yeah.

Go take away the ocean thing.

It's been, I mean, the emphasis naturally is on their withdrawal, which they're going to have to do all the time.

about the entity of slavery.

And as a result, our withdrawal is now assured, and the accusations will go forward.

So there is...

If you hadn't have made progress on it, I could see why you'd be getting this concern.

But you have made progress.

You've reversed the trend.

You've brought up 265,000 men, I will, by the end of next month or so.

Yeah, by the first of May.

The first of May.

And I believe they have, in fact, as I said, they will make another announcement in a few years.

Quite striking.

That's why I say that the critics are going to be out in the crew, because they're going to be sawed off.

A little underrated, isn't it?

Yeah.

Well, you have to do the right thing.

That's right.

I think it's so un- I appreciate your support on this.

Well, I'm strongly behind you on this.

We're getting out.

Everything we've done, as I said, everything we have done, every decision has had the impact of reducing American capitalism and American troops.

Every time I speak in Virginia, I make a point of pointing out what you've done.

They say, well, all the troops are not having it.

That's true, all of them are not having it.

You and I would like to see them out tomorrow.

Yeah.

But you've made great progress in getting them out.

Right.

And that's what counts.

That's right.

You're heading in the right direction.

You've got to...

The President has matters to consider over and beyond just Vietnam.

We have commitments all over the world.

What effect is it going to have on all of those things?

I mean, I hear some of our friends who are worried about the Mideast, and they say, hello, Vietnam.

We've forgotten Vietnam.

We forget the Mideast, you know.

Nobody's going to want to support them, right?

That's right.

So those who are deeply concerned about the Middle East, they are the ones who should be supporting you the strongest.

Some of them are.

They want to support them, right?

That's right.

So those who are deeply concerned about the Middle East, they are the ones who should be supporting you the strongest.

Right.

Some of them are.

You know, well, Harry, I appreciate this, but I just want you to get to the other thing.

I understand.

I appreciate that.

We'll fight a few battles together.

Fine.