Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 471 › Conversation 471-010
Nixon, Miller & MacGregor on Supersonic Transport (SST)
Wednesday, March 24, 1971 · 10:56 AM–11:15 AM ET · Oval Office
AI Summary
President Nixon, Jack Miller, and Clark MacGregor met to discuss the upcoming legislative vote on the Supersonic Transport (SST) project, emphasizing the importance of U.S. leadership in global competition and technological innovation. The group analyzed the vote tally, including the potential influence of uncommitted senators such as David H. Gambrell and Margaret Chase Smith. The President directed Miller and MacGregor to secure votes through parliamentary pairing, specifically mentioning Senators Karl Mundt and Clifford Hansen as potential partners for absent members.
- Supersonic Transport (SST)
- Legislative Strategy
- U.S. Competitiveness
- Aviation Policy
- Senate Procedures
- Technological Innovation
Audio
Download MP3 (part 1) · 154.2 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 75.7 MB
This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 01:44:05 into the tape and ends around 02:03:53.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
1:43:57They're going to want to support them, right?
1:43:58That's right, that's right.
1:44:00So those who are deeply concerned about the Middle East, they are the ones who should be supporting you the strongest.
1:44:10Right, right.
1:44:10But some of them haven't.
1:44:13You know, well, Harry, I appreciate this, but I just want you to get to the other thing.
1:44:18I understand.
1:44:19I appreciate that.
1:44:20We'll fight a few battles together.
1:44:23Fine.
1:44:58I've just got a, I've got a finance meeting on a trade matter on this goddamn cypress problem of the EEC.
1:45:09I'm hearing a pesticide in the anemone.
1:45:12This thing's kissed through this.
1:45:16So, I think I'll keep it under the tarp.
1:45:24Everyone, just tell me how you use this.
1:45:34All right, Mr. Judson, he looks at it from the standpoint of Josh.
1:45:40This is a traumatic, god damn cold.
1:45:43It's like a loss of what we have.
1:45:46Well, okay, all right, Dr. Sager, sit down, sit down.
1:45:49Start to keep your weight, you got it.
1:45:53They don't leave our line, go to the bathroom these days.
1:45:57That's a hell of a number.
1:45:59Thank you very much.
1:46:04That's where he got the bottle of sand from.
1:46:10Jack, the tax man.
1:46:11He didn't even write it off.
1:46:14Coffee or tea?
1:46:15I like tea.
1:46:15I like tea.
1:46:16Tea is not bad.
1:46:17Makes a pretty good tea here.
1:46:21Well, I, uh, I was, uh, I wanted to talk to Jack there.
1:46:24He's the man on the boat today.
1:46:28I understand.
1:46:29It's, uh...
1:46:32It's a very tight one.
1:46:32How tight is it, Mr. President?
1:46:35We think it's tight, Mr. President.
1:46:37It depends if he's still on the wall.
1:46:39Yes.
1:46:40He's one of the best counters in the play.
1:46:45He knows how to count them.
1:46:47From his own state legislature, this is...
1:46:49I was asked by the press yesterday how I thought it was going to go.
1:46:53I said I wouldn't bet anything on it.
1:46:59I think it's going to be very close.
1:47:00And there are some that haven't announced their decision.
1:47:03I think there are a lot of those.
1:47:05Margaret Chase Smith and Senator Gambrell, the appointed successor to Senator Russell, are the only two, as far as I know, who have not given an indication of how they will vote.
1:47:14How many?
1:47:15Four.
1:47:16Four.
1:47:17Gambrell is one of those.
1:47:19Scoop Jackson was on a visit with Gambrell this morning.
1:47:21An interesting thing, Mr. President, John Sherman Cooper was a close friend of Gambrell's father.
1:47:29They were law school classmates and they were friends in our association activity.
1:47:33I knew you did, sir.
1:47:34And John Sherman Cooper told me yesterday that he said it kind of makes me feel a little strange to have the son of one of my best friends in here as a senator.
1:47:47Yeah, isn't that interesting?
1:47:50But Senator Cooper told me that Senator Jackson, but Senator Gambrell was
1:47:57about the issue and it wasn't decided in his mind that Senator Jackson was going to be visiting with.
1:48:04Well, Jack, I'm not going to talk straight.
1:48:08In terms of this situation, I mean, you've studied these things, as you always do.
1:48:14You've studied the apology, you've studied the comments, you've studied the effects.
1:48:58The project will not go forward with any programs that indicate ecological problems.
1:49:03Economically, this is a situation that no one knows.
1:49:05I have never heard in time about this line of commerce.
1:49:08DC-6 is across the country, across the Atlantic, and we all wonder whether the British column is going to make it.
1:49:16And, uh, so, eventually, both will be gone.
1:49:24So I don't know.
1:49:25I believe the economics are right.
1:49:27I mean, it will work out.
1:49:30The other problem is, of course, the barrier to the children's service and the huge government participation and subsequent arrest, which brings me to the key point I'd like to make, that the United States
1:49:49We should not drop out of any competition in a breakthrough in knowledge and exploring the unknown.
1:49:58That's one of the reasons I support the space program.
1:50:00I don't get one damn lot of space jobs, so I'm not one of those space cadet types.
1:50:05But I support it because, whether you did the space program or just did it, you have to stand up for space.
1:50:11One part of the nuclear experiment is the creation of the satellites, you know, and it's on the weather information.
1:50:19but the whole computer technology space.
1:50:22And now that's one of the two barriers that we need to work on, so we can work on it.
1:50:28But unless the case is here, there may just be, I don't know, very true knowledge, there's some kind of rank, but I do know that there's the United States to drop off the race.
1:50:41Drop off or...
1:50:43whether for any reason, which is going to be run.
1:50:46And to accept a second position, I think, is very detrimental to the national interest in our position in the world, in our position, frankly, with ourselves.
1:51:04It's really that reason, which I know you can understand, which I think is making broader change.
1:51:14The idea that my study of history, if you look at the great ebbs and flows of history, when nations lose their will to compete, to explore,
1:51:42later on the French came along, later on the British came along, and finally the Americans.
1:51:51And so now that we are number one in everything, it doesn't mean we've got to respect every race.
1:51:56It does, it seems to me, mean that in an area where we have been superior for so many years, we should go, it seems to me, forward.
1:52:20Is there anybody on the other side to give a line of pair to Jordan?
1:52:25Senator Jordan is absent, but he will not.
1:52:27Everett Jordan, you know, is still recuperating from cancer.
1:52:31He will not pair, Mr. President.
1:52:33Jordan will not pair.
1:52:34Jordan will not pair, but if Jordan were here, Jordan would vote against.
1:52:38So there's a benefit to us that he will not pair.
1:52:40But does he have a choice of not letting somebody pair with him here?
1:52:45I don't think he does.
1:52:47Well, yes, he does.
1:52:49A live pair has got to be... Well, a live pair is determined by the thought of his presence.
1:52:55If I...
1:52:56If not, I can examine that.
1:52:57That has not been my understanding.
1:52:58I think you have to get the approval to ask the senator.
1:53:03I don't doubt that.
1:53:05Well, that's something I think you'd better check out because this is the first time I've ever thought that an absent senator could say whether or not a present senator is a pair of them.
1:53:16Well, if the absent senator, for example, refuses to declare how he will vote, then there's no opportunity for parents.
1:53:34Well, that's right.
1:53:36Yes, Jack.
1:53:37Well, we'll be sure to cover that base.
1:53:40And Mr. President, I would think that
1:53:44We're unable to persuade Senator Miller to give us a live pair with Senator Monk, but Senator Hanson would be the most likely candidate.
1:53:50Yeah.
1:53:50Will you talk to him?
1:53:51Yes, sir, I will.
1:54:34I know what I missed.
1:54:34I know a part of it was the spreadsheet.
1:54:45The main thing we want is the economy of next year.
1:54:50We want the war over next year.
1:54:52So this could help you with this, I understand.
1:54:55Well, I tried to be, because, you know, no worries I have for nothing compared to you at all.
1:55:00I've been trying to be more of an understanding person.
1:55:04And I've been doing the same skills that I'm doing here.
1:55:09Well, I appreciate your concern.
1:55:10Well, I... All right.
1:55:10And I know...
1:55:10I know that.
1:55:11Thank you.
1:55:11This was... That goes into the other office.
1:55:12Thank you, sir.
1:55:45Cooper is the lay of the animal that will have to die without a witness.
1:56:12All right, hello there.
1:56:16How are you?
1:56:18I'll see you again.
1:56:19Yes.
1:56:21Well, great to have you.
1:56:28His wife, Whitney Jr.'s mother, was the first Negro postmaster in the United States and was there at Lincoln Ridge.
1:56:47Right at this stoop, so much time has, so much has happened since I was short of time.
1:56:52The first in the United States?
1:56:57The first in the United States.
1:56:59That's hard to achieve.
1:57:00John, see how appropriate it is to be a part of your life at this place.
1:57:02He's done a lot of firsts.
1:57:04What he did at this stoop over there, they say like father, like son, and I can understand why he's accomplished so much.
1:57:10We've got a mere point of time as citizens, and he did so much for us, for all of us, in all of education.
1:57:18What would you like to do?
1:57:19What would you like to set this up?
1:57:21What would you like to do?
1:57:22I think you like a lot of pictures.
1:57:28I think pictures.
1:57:29Yeah.
1:57:30Yeah.
1:57:34So that's where most of their participation comes from.
1:57:37Well, let me set the picture up then before they come in.
1:57:39Right.
1:57:40And you stand on that side, Governor.
1:57:47You stand here.
1:57:50We were talking about how this was all accomplished.
1:57:55We started with a drill here.
1:59:03Thank you.
1:59:22I don't know.
1:59:22I don't know.
1:59:23I don't know.
1:59:23I don't know.
1:59:56It is time for you to leave this place.
1:59:58You must leave this place.
2:00:13Well, he's part of the family.
2:00:21He's a big one.
2:00:23He's a big one.
2:00:26He's a big one.
2:00:28He's a big one.
2:00:30He's a big one.
2:00:33He's a big one.
2:00:34He's a big one.
2:00:36He's a big one.
2:00:41You have to be already beat, you know what I mean?
2:00:44What she said over there, is that me?
2:00:46I don't know whether it turned out right, but if I thought it would, it would.
2:00:53You can say it didn't turn out right, but if you think it did, you can do it.
2:01:03I know, I think it's great, you know, there couldn't be a, I don't think that you're, you're a son of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a,
2:01:19Sure, but what better use of the name than the name of the school, you know.
2:01:23It doesn't have to be a lot of fun.
2:01:24It's not fun.
2:01:28Yes, it is.
2:01:28It's a lot of fun.
2:01:29Oh, yeah.
2:01:30This is another connection to the old Lincoln Institute.
2:01:34See, that's what you had to do with your boy when he went to school and went under the state.
2:01:39And they could give him a chance to do whatever they wanted.
2:01:49Well, I certainly approve of this 100%.
2:01:53I just hope that it's maybe the beginning of more movements in this direction.
2:02:00Of course, the fact that it moves in the vocational area is so important.
2:02:06Well, of course, Art, you've been talking about it for a long time.
2:02:09You know, you are talking about you as a president.
2:02:11You can talk all you want about it.
2:02:14But not all.
2:02:15We don't want one of us to...
2:02:19and opened a nice house, and I knew he'd got a job.
2:02:21Got to have a job.
2:02:24Either pay the rent or pay the down payment or whatever the case might be.
2:02:28So jobs are the key to everything, and without that whole training, you can't get that job.
2:02:34That's where the opportunity is, and there's an enormous amount that can be done there.
2:02:39I think another point Mr. Young could really make is the number of minority, the first few professionals today who started out with skill,
2:02:48We started out with craft skills sometimes.
2:02:51And if you notice, craft skills actually worked their way through college, just in and over.
2:02:56Is that correct?
2:02:58Oh, yeah.
2:02:58They started a, not just an article, but a movement.
2:03:02They started out, I don't know, setting a big area among black professionals, doctors, lawyers, and...
2:03:09An accountant said, well, it's interesting, a number of both fellows who at one time or another were barbers, beauticians, several of the lay doctors, and they had the black doctors in this instance, and asked to work their way through medical school as beauticians.
2:03:23They learned beauty training, they discovered that they had to know the anatomy of the body and various other things to pass that test, and got interested as a result of that and used that skill to work with them.
2:03:33He was telling a story coming up about the young boy that came over to that school several years ago.
2:03:40They asked him to take him.
2:03:44He was an expert at picking locks.
2:03:49He worked with him personally, and today he's one of the outstanding surgeons.
2:04:02I want to give you a little something, Mike.
2:04:07Do you like it?
2:04:11Here's some coffee, actually.
2:04:14Well, here's some of you, some of you guys.
2:04:21Thank you.
2:04:23Here we are.
NARA Description
On March 24, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Jack Miller, Clark MacGregor, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:56 am to 11:15 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 471-010 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 471-10
Date: March 24, 1971
Time: 10:56 am - 11:15 am
Location: Oval Office
Jack Miller met with Clark MacGregor
President’s location
Miller’s schedule
-A meeting on trade and European Economic Community [EEC]
-Citrus issue
-Pesticides
-A meeting with Henry A. Kissinger
-A meeting with the President
Supersonic Transport [SST]
-President’s position
-Economy, jobs
The President entered at an unknown time after 10:56 am
President’s schedule
Taxes
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 10:56 am
Refreshments
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 11:15 am
SST
-March 24, 1971 vote
-Tally
-Miller’s statement to press
-Margaret Chase Smith
-David H. Gambrell
-Richard B. Russell’s successor
-Herman E. Talmadge
-Position
-Gambrell
-Meeting with Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
-Relation with John Sherman Cooper
-Position
-Meeting with Jackson
-President’s position
-Environmental concerns
-Economy
-DC-6 production in Great Britain
-Boeing
-Government role
-Subsidy
-Importance
-President’s view
-Exploring the unknown
-Space program
-President’s position
-Satellites
-Computer technology
-US prestige
-National interest
-Communists
-Miller’s view
-History
-French, British, Spanish empires
-US leadership
-President’s position
-Miller’s view
-Effect on economy or ecology
-Development of prototypes
-Miller’s view
-John A. Volpe’s statement
-Government and private sector role
-Investment
-Benefits
-London-to-Paris flights
-Tokyo
-Compared to costs
-Economic issues
-Future
-Use
-Military and commercial aviation
-US position in aviation
-Barry M. Goldwater
-Political considerations
-Miller
-George S. McGovern
-Miller’s opponent, John C. Culver
-Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy connection
-Possible effects of Miller’s SST vote
-Culver
-American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
[AFL-CIO] support
-Kennedy
-Miller’s previous SST vote
-Constituent response
-Miller’s position
-Opposition
-Compared with President’s votes while Congressman Conv. No. 471-10 (cont.)
-Cost and benefit analysis
-Soviet Union
-Cost and benefit analysis
-An unnamed Miami friend of Miller’s
-Possible alternative use of money
-Education
-Iowa constituents
-State government experiences
-Political considerations
-Pairing
-Karl E. Mundt
-Iowa constituent reactions
-Effect on Miller
-Culver
-Miller’s previous statements
-Opposition
-Clifford P. Hansen
-Possible 1972 opponent
-Voting record
-Pairing
-B. Everett Jordan
-Health
-Procedures
-Absences
-Jordan
-Mundt, Hansen
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 39s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
******************************************************************************
1972 issues
-Economy
-Vietnam War
SST vote
-Miller’s position
-President
Miller and MacGregor left at 11:15 amAlso recorded on March 24, 1971
- 471-008 10:43 AM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:43 am and 10:45 am.
- 471-009 10:45 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Harry F. Byrd, Jr., and William E. Timmons met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:45 am to 10:55 am.
- 471-011 11:16 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:16 am.
- 471-012 11:16 AM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Louie B. Nunn, Whitney M. Young, Sr., James D. Hodgson, Arthur A. Fletcher, and Robert J. Brown met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:16 am to 11:25 am.
- 471-013 11:26 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Joseph H. Blatchford, Carol M. Khosrovi, George P. Shultz, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:26 am to 11:37 am.
- 471-014 11:37 AM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:37 am.
- 471-015 11:38 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, Aldo Massarini, Paul Moniez, Jacques Bullet, Kenneth G. Wickham, Earl E. Anderson, Maocyr Paiva, Willi Rieke, Jae Chul Lee, William G. McNamara, Raoul Mollet, James D. ("Don") Hughes, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:38 am to 11:43 am.
- 471-016 11:44 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Harvey Firestone, Emmett O'Donnell, George T. Bell, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:44 am to 11:50 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 471-010, March 24, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/471-010 (accessed October 12, 2026).