Nixon, Mitchell & Pappas on Vietnam War and Foreign Policy

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Oh, all right.

All right.

Thank you.

You can sit down.

Sorry to get in the way.

It's all right.

I appreciate it.

Well, you and Tom decide everything.

I thought he was going to go to work for us.

I thought I saw that.

You should have heard what I told you since you saw it the last night.

Did you remember?

Did you talk to her?

Did I talk to her?

No, I got to ask more.

You still got chicken?

Huh?

You still got chicken?

Yeah.

How are you?

I still got chocolate.

Oh, how are you?

By the way.

Oh.

No, no, I want to make sure.

Yeah.

You know what that is?

No.

I'm going to eat you.

Oh, I see.

Not you.

Very good.

Not enough room.

You know who gave it to him?

George.

George Merton.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He beat that track.

That track.

He was able to see it.

Well, anyway.

I told you.

Go ahead.

I told Mr. Hughes.

I said, Hugh, I said, you look wonderful up there in the rock strip.

But I said, have you changed?

Have you changed?

are you going to support that great president that we have?

Well, he said, am I not doing better?

I said, I haven't seen any evidence of it yet, Hugh.

When I do, I'm watching.

Tom was all over him last year, too.

He supported us on SSB, you know.

But 17 didn't.

Bobby.

Bogey was sick last night.

Bogey did his job.

Yeah, I know.

And we all work on it, but basically it's a...

It's a phase that will pass, I hope, in this country, but it's a turning inward.

They'll start cracking the space door, if you watch.

They'll want to cut it open.

Then they'll start cracking the fence.

And the whole point is, they say, well, all we want to do is help the poor.

I'm going to meet with the Black Congress today.

I just saw their manifesto.

They just want to stop it.

Wear it in a tail.

Are you going to get the tax?

off the core unless you build something.

That's right.

Ah, create something.

Well, if you have a tax base, there's not going to be any money to pay for it.

Oh, Jack, excuse me.

I need to do the laundry.

There we are.

Is that what you'd like me to do, or do you prefer coffee?

No, this is all good coffee.

It's pretty good coffee.

President, the people that I talk with are beginning to realize what a great job you're doing.

But we have to do the problems now.

They'll turn, you watch.

Well, they are turning.

That's just what I want to do.

I definitely, I wouldn't tell you if I was not involved.

I'll start with this here.

He's the greatest, Mr. Fred.

Now, I tell you, of all the people, after the 60 elections, remember he pulled the kid.

Of all the people that I've dealt with on this political spectrum, this guy is the most loyal, he's the most knowledgeable, the most understanding.

Thank you, sir.

Now, this is a fact.

It really is a fact.

And they did give you good health, Mr. President, which is the most important.

The world considers you their leader.

Well, I'm not going to say this, but we... And I'm not exaggerating.

At the present time, the world is in a...

Turmoil.

Yeah, it's in turmoil.

You know what has happened is that we live in one of those periods when leadership in the world is passing...

Old hands to new hands.

And you look across here, DeGaulle's gone, Adenauer's gone, Church's gone, and D'Castro's gone, you know.

And as a matter of fact, I think back to Paul, the former king, who was called Paul, his father, old friends, and priests, they're all gone.

Peter Smith from the Vatican's gone.

Yeah, well, yeah, Pacelli's gone.

That's right.

And he was the last great Pope.

The last great Pope.

Pope John's a nice man.

This one's, you know, a godly man.

My God, the Catholic Church is the one that's disappeared.

Just appeared.

And here we are in the United States, Tom, to be frank with you, the season of dispersement of the city and the state in which you live.

the American Eastern establishment, Harvard, and all the rest, they aren't fit to govern this country.

There's no guts.

Now, basically, we've got to see it through.

That's what this miserable war is all about.

I see miserable war, unfortunately.

Looking at it, we simply have to end it in a way that we're not dishonored.

And that would be a great lapse.

We could go chicken out of there right away.

Buckingham, Percy would clap his hands, and Sergeant Wood, and Brooke, and all the rest, and Hawkins.

What are our enemies going to think of the United States, huh?

Who would have lost the Prestige at Genoa?

What do you think they're going to think?

What would they think of Europe, really?

What would they think?

I mean, really, what would they think?

What would they think of Australia?

They think we have to try absolutely nothing.

You know they hate the war.

They do.

Everybody hates the war.

And I think the American people, deep down, they feel the same way.

Well, they hate it.

They want to end it.

Yes, they do, but... We're going to make another announcement in April, Tom, and it will be quite heartening.

And I can tell you what it is, in other words, I don't want, especially me having to tell John, but it will be a very good one.

And people will then see that the long road is coming to an end.

We're not going to throw it all out on them because we've got to keep enough there to make those people give us back to prisoners and also to keep just enough there long enough so that the South Vietnamese have a chance to survive.

That's what we're going to do.

Well, I agree with you, but I think the other thing that maybe it's a crazy talk.

Here we have the Paris office which we've been operating until three years ago.

The cabin was there.

The house was there.

And they go there and they either meet or they don't meet and they close up.

Would it be proper to say, Mr. Brooks, you've been there so long, you've got it.

Let me tell you about the plans, though, Tom.

We've got all questions tied.

Yes.

We've got to wait.

About the, this summer, the middle of the summer, we will see that there's nothing left for us to wait.

the prisoner thing, and we could put the prisoner thing, move it to Geneva or some other damn thing, and say, all right, boys, as far as we're concerned, to hell with you.

Right.

We're finding our way to end the war, and you can find yours, but for us just to sit there and be badgered by these people, that's what I'm reading.

It sounds so excellent.

And we have that in mind.

But we're waiting now.

You see, at the present time, we just want to have in this country a

The weakness in this country is, it's surprising how much, you know, it's, but it's, what is weak in the country, Tom, and it exists.

The World War II did not weaken it, actually, as much as it did.

And when we consider what the French and the British

Well, let's take the Germans and Japanese, what each of them have gone through and how they have survived.

They're still strong people.

My God, the Americans have been through nothing.

Nothing.

So, when Korea hurt the American spirit, then this war ends.

But beyond that, what has really hurt it the most has been this

this foppish group of intellectuals in this country who come out with the universities and they've gone to the great newspapers, they've gone to the television and the rest, and they constantly run down America.

They don't want America to be first in aviation.

They don't want us to be first in space.

They don't want us to be, frankly, honored in the world.

They say, oh, America's a terrible place.

We don't treat the Negroes right.

We don't treat this right.

What we ought to do is to concentrate all of our great energies

cleaning up America and forget the world.

Well, if that happens, who is left in the world to handle the communists, huh?

Who's left?

The British can't.

The French can't.

The Japanese haven't got the power.

We're all there is, right?

So that's what people got to realize.

Is this a program that has been planned properly by some of these?

Let me tell you, I have not.

I have not won it.

would subscribe totally to the conspiratorial theory, but I can say this.

Our enemies just love this, and some of them are crowding the boat with housing.

But some of these people, like your friend Galbraith, they don't know they're being used.

Oh, I see.

You think they do?

So does Bundy.

Mac Bundy?

Yeah.

He's one of your hard workers.

Oh, yes.

He was there on Tuesday night.

We were talking, and his wife was there, and she was delighted.

I think she's a lovely, beautiful woman.

But we got along fine.

We got along fine.

He's helping us in the volunteer work terrifically, you know, terrifically.

We follow the little good secrets.

Thanks.

Good.

Henry's a good friend of mine.

Well, you know, he was basically, you know, with Kennedy, as we know, and he was for other reasons.

But now, we've tried to graduate through Max Fisher bringing back, and I think we can get him back.

He's 100%.

He gave you $50,000.

He's all right.

Mr. President, I know and I appreciate very much the opportunity to see you.

I'd like to talk to you until you decide.

You can ask me whatever question I know.

All right.

I know it really well because I've been going there for 40 years.

We operated 25 plants in Italy.

And I, as a young man, I was about 23 when I stopped going there.

I think this man can turn this around.

He's white.

You make it look that way.

And I say that this has got to be sold to the suspect.

This has got to be done very fast.

Because he's a strong, terrible guy.

Now, they say there's no one in there.

Well, he's not in there.

He's an American boy.

The other thing is, I've been...

He said, I'm going to do it.

I don't give a damn.

He's got a lot of activity.

Nobody has a solution to this.

It's a crime.

I don't like it.

What are you going to do about it?

Are you going to have the generals or the counties?

Now, losing Italy, Mr. President, you've lost a little bit of the state.

Listen, I'm with you all the way.

I know.

And incidentally, I must say, you know, I'm watching the Spanish situation very closely.

And it needs watching.

But this should help Spain.

It would help Turkey.

It would help a lot of things.

It should help...

I know what these people promised, and I believe that they feel embarrassed.

I believe that by 1972, they will have set up their

affairs so that they can stop the parliamentary procedure.

I think by the end of this year, an announcement was stuck out.

I have no power over that.

Nobody told me that they were going to do that.

That would be very helpful if they would.

Yes.

You see, look, I am the best friend they've got.

I know that.

If I did not be in this office, they'd be put right down the tube.

I

Now, I've been defending them, and John knows this, the NSC, and all the rest.

Everybody wants to take the priesthood.

I said, when they said, well, is it the Danes who I'm liking?

I said, who are the Danes?

What are you going to do, exchange one in the tank or 20 divisions?

20 divisions.

Whatever it is, 15.

They don't work with them, but they want to make it easier for us.

I know.

I told them that.

Well, you keep telling us that you have to help us, and we help them a lot.

Yes.

It's simple, isn't it?

Yes.

So we understand what they have to do.

Make it appear something else.

You tell them strong.

Look here, boys.

You know American politics.

You know they've got a very good friend here.

But there ain't an awful ton of people.

I don't trust them.

Well, I'm going to tell them to go on second turn.

I'm going to tell them in a nice way.

Because I tried my best to guide them to do everything I possibly could.

I said, the martial law.

Kick it the hell out and make something else as strong as the martial law.

But don't call it the martial law.

You can't have the hell with martial law.

And I think Tosca's done a good job on that.

Now, Greece, I think, is going along well.

And I believe that these people are on the road to .

I believe by 1972, they will have .

Because the kid is not helping you leave that.

I don't want you to leave.

We've got to go now.

Yeah.

Sorry about that.

Yugoslavia, your visit there has made a very, very important situation.

Tito, you've done a good job with the five-member committee.

Yugoslavs are in a better position now than they were two months ago before you went.

I want to go back.

Which it must have been last August.

I'm sorry, October.

I'm telling you, yes, that's right.

But the obvious and safest situation, I can tell you that, because I go to the U.S. Army, and I talk to a lot of people there, and I think they're on their own.

They're on their own.

They perceive it.

We're having them here.

I know.

As you've probably confirmed in June,

Peter, I think you're going to sit around.

Would you like to come back down there?

Are you wondering where you are?

Well, I expect to be here for good, by the way, in July.

I promised John that I would come and start working for him September 1st until November 7th.

You ought to come.

I think so.

Great, great.

You ought to come to that dinner since you know these people.

Oh, yeah.

You don't have any friends here.

Well, I'm very happy because they're doing, they're, they're, they're, they are together.

Their money situation is improving.

They, they're back, of course.

But, uh...

They are much better than they were before.

Much, much better.

We've done a lot of business with them.

We buy from them and we sell them, by the way.

We take some of their raw material and we sell it finished, probably in a steel plant.

I have a steel plant there also, which I hope the Japs will provide.

Nobody wants it in Europe, I believe.

Nobody wants the Japs to put it in Europe.

The English, I think, and the British.

The Germans.

I've heard of France, yeah.

Yeah.

The Middle East, sir?

Well...

I don't have a new man, but the prime minister there is our friend.

Is the general his brother or his son?

Well, I believe that

I hope that the Russians don't set foot to take Israel's land.

I heard that.

We're, uh, don't worry about it.

We're watching out very closely there.

We've got to make a little move to make them appear.

Yes, I know.

And we will cooperate, but to have the Russians in a permanent position is not something we're looking forward to.

We've got to take away from the land as much as we can.

And the only one we need.

That's right.

That's ridiculous.

Sorry, I'm having trouble.

Well, I think this fellow, we'll know in a few days when he announces his program.

I hope he's strong enough to withhold the impression that he will be getting.

The general staff there is, they kicked out the youngsters there.

I don't know how many of them, but if he gets the people,

Bombs his government with the conservative people.

I think they don't mind.

They fast.

We need the terrorists.

I've told you this.

Tom, don't forget the old person on Saturday.

Oh, excuse me.

I'm about to leave Saturday.

Oh, I hope they won't.

Oh.

Oh, I see.

He said it's not suspicious because you've already had him.

I'd like to have him, but...

He will have him.

I'd like to have him.

All right.

Now he's coming, isn't he?

He's about to retire, isn't he?

Yes.

When is he?

You know, they didn't have him this year.

Yeah, he's been late.

We can have him over.

You could have him even before as a private citizen.

No, we could have him as a president come as a private citizen.

Yeah.

Unofficially to meet with you, California, Florida, any place he's coming here, even to Ontario he's coming here to visit Alaska or something like that.

I see.

And he does not want anybody else to come with him.

You must come alone and the interpreter would be...

Yeah, yeah, where we could get waters to come down.

And that would be a tremendous help.

Also, look at that.

The other day I saw Fulgham, I believe.

Oh yes, yeah, yeah.

He's slipping a little bit.

I know.

He must be.

He's contributing money to common cause.

He must be slipping a lot.

To common cause.

Is he really?

Gardener?

Whether it's for old time's sake or what else.

Oh, sure.

Who's he gonna pop?

John Gardner, that on-the-cause outfit, the left-wing outfit in New York.

Let me give you some of this fucking thing which I heard, Mr. Sotkin.

I have nothing against Sotkin or anybody.

They're giving him potty, the rip-on.

Rip-on?

Yes.

Who do you think they're giving it for?

Sergeant.

Look at that.

Huh?

Look at that.

Oh, boy.

I think this is fine.

This puts the rip-off societies in the direct posture where they belong.

You ought to see the names of the people that are on the committee.

Before I came here, somebody called me.

Oh, you don't know about that.

Oh, my God.

I give you another pair for insurance.

But we've got something to do.

We'll take them away.

And that's what you get.

That's right, that's right, that's right.

All the way, all the way.

Come on.

Nixon, Mitchell & Pappas on Vietnam War and Foreign Policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 25, 1971

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