Conversation 476-014

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Hi, how are you?

Fine.

I had a motorway accident in the Annenberg, and they were filled out in the Annenberg Center.

And they were very pleased.

They'd like to have a message up for you.

And I'm very excited about you.

Well, I'll tell you the reason I'm asking, I mean, I was in California.

I met some Hopi people, and there were several there who were thirsty of our problems with the weasel.

There's a hell of a lot we can do from this end to help them in subjecting business above.

I must say that with all their attention, they did, all their attention, they just spoke lowly of their terror.

And I sort of planned them all so you would know.

Maybe a couple of surgeons out there, but not, I'm not speaking to a fast driver.

They had to pull on the effects, they had to pull on the, the eye crack really tight.

Yeah, I know.

Also, Pickard, he just thought, he doesn't like any else, but he just thought this thing was great.

You know, as he saw the handset, kind of gray hair.

Gray hair.

Yeah.

I have two points that I'd like to make.

First, in regard to your buildings here, the names.

Now this Kershaw Museum, where's that going to be?

This is on the mall.

Yeah, where we took down the buildings.

You know, it's not going to be that modern, are you?

The Kershaw Collection is modern.

Ben is more familiar with it.

It is one of the best in sculpture collections in the world.

Well, don't have to be a horrible modern building.

If it is, we just can't go for it.

We just can't do it.

I'm not going to have them all disgraced with one of those horrible atrocities like we have in New York.

Jesus be Christ.

It looks like that.

Believe me, he didn't have any money.

I don't know, a horrible, what do you think they have in the ark?

It's got to be something that relates.

Or I mean the same.

Oh, I mean the wood.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

With the concrete, the porous concrete.

The creature in the middle.

But it's got to be something that's beautiful.

It's got to have a little beauty and a little character and fit in with the architecture of this city.

That's the problem.

And when you say it's not universal, we've got to fight that.

Or as the plan has already been introduced.

Find out submission of approval plans in the last administration.

We changed them to some extent.

We're doing the best we can.

It's a complicated proposition.

We got rid of that sculpture garden, which would have been a transverse cut across the mall.

They agreed to change that.

The collection is an outstanding collection.

I do not think I have any kind of collection unless I have something that might be a drop of copper and brass figures, you know, and all that sort of thing.

I guess they have some transfers now.

That is not the main concern.

My main concern is something else in terms of the therapy here in the Department of Justice.

Uh, do I, can we change some of these names?

We're only trying to resell them.

No, we're not selling them.

All right, I want to take the Easterners off.

And I want to add money to them.

That's right, that's right, that's fine.

Hal Walz, he's the movie manager.

That's right.

He's fine.

This is an average fine.

Jack Dines, you don't need him.

Unless you're asking money for him.

We don't need him.

All right, fine.

Put, uh, Nate Cummings on.

Who has it consolidated?

Well, he's amazing.

And doesn't Nick Cummings live at the Waldorf?

He's a top Democrat.

And he has one of the greatest art collections in the world, without any question.

And he'll help us.

And also, one of the other Cummings, I want Ted Cummings on, who lives in California, who has one of the, and he's modern art, but he has, but he's got a sense about it, you know what I mean?

He's getting in his house.

I know Ted very well.

I know his house, but I'm saying he has a fine collection.

It's a great, you're right about this, sir.

Now, we've never been put there already, then, yet.

But I know how it is.

about me coming home for another reason, Ted.

And the thing that Bob, maybe you checked with Ted, he would like to be on, or his wife would like to be on.

His wife was a real, I think she's the one that is arguing, although Ted is a very, I can't tell, what do you think, is it his wife or him that has the argument?

She's a very low figure in the Jewish community, and he wants to do something.

She is, yeah.

Put her on that.

put her on, because I just like, but I think Ted ought to know that I thought of him, just a neat, kind, fancy, I don't know who made me do that.

Well, one of you should call him and tell him that I remember talking to him at the Wal-Mart, which I did, this was before the election, he lives in the Wal-Mart, and

What may be, it comes to my mind, is that Paul McCracken was just standing, he'd just been out in New York in a meeting with Dave Cummings and others, and Cummings is, you know, was defending him.

So what the hell, let's get him on, right?

The other names, I don't care.

I mean, I don't know Lee Block, I don't know George.

Him, let's see, on Chicago.

Or H. Harvard, Arneson, he resists.

I don't mind.

Is there anybody on the list that's not Jewish?

I don't care if you're on the Jewish list.

Well, Arneson isn't.

We have two or three.

How does that happen?

Well, he's the art expert that we were talking about.

I don't think that's a question.

Okay, I don't think that's a question.

I spoke to TAP about the names that were supposed to be listed.

I agree with you on this one, but there must be at least one.

There's one good friend of Johnson's there, and that's Hobart Taylor.

He's black.

That's right.

He's not Jewish.

No, he's not Jewish.

You can't get Nate Cummings on this list.

Put him on others.

Do you understand?

I want Nate Cummings, and this is Ted Cummings.

And Bob, you take the credit with Ted Cummings.

You do the Nate Cummings.

So that Nate knows that I am basketball.

Another thing, Bob, you put down on the list that he has not been invited to the White House and should be named Secretary of the United States of America.

He shouldn't be invited to the White House because he's potentially a very good friend of ours.

The Kennedy Center is your office.

The Associated Councils of the Yard hold an annual conference.

Do you want me to make a speech about hiring?

Yes, sir.

Any time.

Would you like to say again?

It might be an opportunity to go beyond just the arts and to sort of pull together the arts, the environment, the sort of the change of movement in this country, all the bits and pieces.

What is it?

Well, that basically is a group going into the community, and it's unlike the others that you told us all of a sudden that you were going to a fan club.

This is part of the conference.

Now, this would be a very, very receptive.

It would be receptive.

I'm not going to expose the presidency to a bunch of jerks.

No, they are...

40, 100 percent, because of what you've done in the eye.

You would come in with the credibility of all this, of two years of work.

I want to get the mileage, but what I want to do here, I want to get the mileage, but I wonder if Nancy can't get it just as well.

And that just would be enough.

How many people are here?

Do you think they want more mileage?

It'll be very surprising.

I think a good little step, let's take a, alright, let's get a 15-minute talk, you know, 2,000 words, you know, that's my number, almost 2,000.

Not one word over 2,000.

And then, and we'll build it up so it all won't happen.

Let's get our friends in, and be sure there are no protesters, no...

Lennon, do you work with Ray?

I certainly will.

I said Ray should be the right one.

This is just as this should be.

The right one.

Yes.

Lennon, do you have a jury in for him?

Yes.

But Ray has the real, he has the artistic feeling.

He plays it on himself.

The other thing is that, Nancy, that I want you to do is movies.

My God, there's going to be something about these movies.

We're going to have a whole program for it.

We're working on the tax side for one thing.

And Flanagan was there, and Flanagan.

Now, here's where you've got to sit down with Flanagan to see some of the things that they mentioned.

But I'd like to see some area.

It seems to me that we ought to be able to at least get some kind of budget care.

Now, it may be, it has to do with a lot of things, of course.

When you figure this, 52%, 52% of all the needs,

uh, shown in the United States now are made abroad.

I mean, that's a, that's true at fifty-two percent.

Uh, this poses a security problem.

But the problem, of course, is, is it's not, it's not all the fault of the, of the government.

Uh, part of it is the fact that our own movie producers have priced themselves out of the market, and they're, and they, some of these guys brought it up, and it was a man-good meeting.

Pete Lennon has said it, and I would like for you and Pete and so forth and Bob, to the extent, my box is going off, or it will trigger, Bob, any of this work will be produced.

I'm sorry.

But Nancy, let's find a way to keep those down for movies.

I mean, if we can.

It isn't just the foreign movies, but we've got to name them, give an opportunity for Americans to make movies here.

I don't want to see the United States to slip into a second position in the making of movies.

Movies is a great argument.

Do you agree?

Now, we are splitting it.

We are splitting it.

We are going to do a second place position.

I want you to, as much as you can, put some things into movies here.

I know it's a hell of a call.

Let me tell you another thing about the movie thing.

These people are all, and actually most of them are, well, except for some of my old friends like Jack Warner and Pat Shatner, most of them.

I understand.

I don't care about that.

But the fact that America has been first in movies has been good for America.

Now when we let the, when we let the countries abroad, you know, when we export the jobs and export the production and everything else abroad, this is not good.

It denies to our own people an opportunity in the field.

And of course it's all ancestral, should you know.

Unless you've got a strong movie industry, you're not gonna have a strong television producing industry.

Television should, now, part of this gets me in the antitrust world.

The goddamn antitrust people were wrong.

But you require the divestment.

I want that decision reversed.

And you will do that.

That must be reversed.

In other words, we've got to allow the idea that these theater owners were out there making money selling peanuts and whatever else they sell in there.

And by raising the price to absorb the amounts, even though you have an interesting thing, even though the number of attendants of movies has gone down from 70 million to 20 million approximately.

The theater artists will make the money.

The reason is they're making it out of the, out of the infusion and, of course, the deep accessories.

Now, what we have to do is to find a way for the producers to get a piece of that action.

In other words, rather than move, we've got to move towards the final position rather than the end.

I don't think there's another way you're going to make it go than to use it unless you go to the right subject.

Well, now there's the other thing along the difficulty with the right subject matter.

Let's be realistic.

You will never sell that to the Congress.

I told those leaders, I said, look, I said, I'll tax them.

I said, we'd like to get you taxed, but I pointed out that Wilbur Mills will not consider any tax major this year.

I said, so we may consider it next year.

But you know very well, if we talk about a special tax treatment for movies,

Who else is going to be lining up?

Everybody's going to be lining up.

People don't like movie producers.

I do.

I'm all for them.

But there are other things we can do.

Is that a question?

Am I wrong?

I think that's a critical thing.

Another thing, too, is in regard to maybe we can stop some of this boring stuff from coming in.

I don't know.

I mean, not for censorship, but...

There must be, with also non-parent barriers, we can give the Japanese a high understanding there.

While we go ahead and port any Japanese movies, the Japanese are going to have trouble on us in getting ours in there.

So we have to take a final look at what's going on here.

But we can trade off movies for maybe automobile, you understand?

Right.

I want our whole foreign trade talks, and I told Peterson already that he needs to look into this.

I want the book.

motion pictures in with oranges.

Oh, look, I met with this little guy called Bobby over there.

He said, oh, well, this is such a small factory.

It's a very small factory.

But I said, Mr. Bobby, for us to make a big play in this field,

I said, you've got to make a little gesture on your part.

You've got to help us with our centuries.

I said, it's cold turkey.

So it is with movies.

Movies, I think, happens to be big.

Symbolically, I mean, as you see, you don't agree with this.

I mean, you know, go around all these orchestras and ballads and everything.

But really, the movie industry is heaven.

I mean, when you think about the movies and college,

the impact it's going to have in the future.

We simply cannot, we cannot dry up the opportunity in those industries, which has been so essential for good production.

Otherwise we're going to have lousier and lousier television productions, right?

The movies basically are like the farms right now.

They're like the farm system of a major league baseball club.

You gotta go someplace to make the players, it's like, or like colleges for professional pro teams.

Yes, all right.

I mean, the control is out of the hands of the people right now.

I thought we had control.

We could lose that.

Sure.

But the quality of the films in this country is not as good as many of the foreign films, and this is why you have the foreign films.

Therefore, I think...

Some of them are very lousy.

I like those foreign films.

They're supposed to be great.

I'm not talking about...

I mean, the photography stuff isn't lousy.

Some of ours are worse.

They have more bad ones than we have.

You see our good movies.

All right, now, now, as the whole movie market exists, this is what I want people to learn to get into.

My God, let's talk about movies, mister.

Don't you start producing good movies.

And the family movie is coming back.

It's coming back very fast.

I sense it.

You're quite right.

The romantic mood is beginning to air in the South.

And they say they run, and all their friends, that they don't like the, frankly, they aren't tired.

They have their stuff.

It's a thrill at the moment.

I find my kids are fascinated by the old movies that they see on television.

My nine and ten year old, they're very interested in the old movies.

They find the story, the strong story, strong character, and you don't have that in a lot of the contemporary.

The thing is, there's no such thing, and they're so offbeat.

Well, understand, I know nothing about it, but that's your cremation, or whatever it is you're cremating.

Let's make study of this damn industry from an art standpoint.

Is it worth saving?

I don't want to subsidize a turkey.

Maybe we can't get a subsidy.

But at the present time, we sure can't get it from the Congress.

The Congress will never subsidize movies.

Never, never, unless they approve the quality.

On the other hand, the industry is hurting, and we've got to do everything we can to save it.

The FCC is involved in this also, Federal Communications Commission.

The FCC has formulated something.

And we've got three votes on it.

And we're going to make a choice of it that we can get.

We're going to try to, as I told you about, I told Flannigan, one of those four clowns, I mean, let's make him a judge.

We'll put him on the Supreme Court.

How do we leave the movie?

This will save me a meeting with Pete.

Who will follow up now?

Bob, you can't wrap it up.

We had two meetings.

Okay, nice.

Okay, Nancy, also, can you see?

The therapy part is also important.

These people are very impressive.

They didn't care about the city.

It isn't just...

which is in the educational side, we're doing the worst of the worst job of educating more and more people in the whole cinema field, is that all the emphasis in the cinema schools in the good ones, which are the two really great ones, SC and UCLA, and all the rest, the emphasis is on weird stuff, rather than on production.

The first 40 million folks could just do something on that.

But if we do something in regards to the city, for example, Indiana University used to be pretty good at this.

Northwestern has a very good school of human education.

SC, I know, has gone weird.

And that's the problem.

If you produce that kind of people, what are the students actually doing?

They're training 40 interns and fellows.

They also do production.

Leave the square side.

I know you're an actual man, but leave the square side.

I'm going to go square, square, square.

I think so.

I think they are still making the weird pictures.

Whereas the kind of pictures that people like are stories.

They want to see a story again.

They don't like this Charlton Heston.

Of course, he always makes some stories by movies, and that was really his point.

He said, gee, you know, we just got to make some movies and do a tall story.

Why is it, for example, that people still go see John Wayne?

I saw a Wayne movie the other night.

It was terrible, except for John Wayne.

But it was a story, you know what I mean?

It was a story, right?

And one of those intruders is a story, but not that the people are sick of this weird stuff.

I think that's happening.

I think there is a movement back where things never catch up with each other.

That's one of our problems.

The film industry in this country used to be way ahead of... Left behind.

Right.

Let me suggest this.

The film industry also may be reflecting the national intelligentsia.

And that's always wrong.

What you need to tell them, I want you to talk cold turkey to them and say, and Bob, this is a thing of planning.

Look here, boys.

Look here, you've got to clean your own houses or we're going to do these things for you.

We're not just going to take six steps that are going to help the sick industry.

They've got to shape up their labor policies, they've got to shape up their production costs, they've got to shape up also, and I strongly urge, they have got to shape up in terms of what they're making.

I can sit in that meeting and say that I think American movies are the best.

I can say that I thought they were the worst.

But my point is, they damn well have got to make better movies.

Isn't that your point, that next production?

I don't see enough of them.

You say five, that's pretty lousy.

The general run, now.

Rebozo tells me that's terrible.

It's very bad.

He's a scurrilous ego.

What's your name?

I can't even.

It's hard to think of an American movie of great distinction.

Patton, of course, is one.

I saw it.

I enjoyed the film more than anything else.

I love it.

I love the movie.

And I see you've seen more, but you know I haven't seen, except for Love Story.

Uh, it had happened.

I think those are the only two new things I've seen.

There are very few worth seeing.

Oh, by the way, Bob, haven't you seen the Spartan that you see movies like Ernie the Roar in these days?

I've seen it in the oldies.

You know, the Lawrence Parade or something like that.

There were all that.

I think you're going back.

I have deeply...

in this problem, not just the movies.

I am deeply interested in the problem.

With the rank of our time concerned, I wish that our country weren't oriented toward television, that it weren't oriented towards vision.

I would like to see you support more good writers and good literature.

There are a few that write any good books anymore.

Not really good books.

And I'd like for you to support them.

A prize in good literature, for example.

I'd like to see you support more, frankly, good music, symphonic music.

I don't much care for the jazz, actually.

It's all right if other people do so, so help that.

But I'd like to see that.

I want to see that supported.

And John's a great artist there.

I'd also, with a deal of pain and the rest of it, I don't think about it.

I just support whatever the people want.

But when we come to the visual, the reason it is important is that it is what the great majority of young people in the future are going to be affected by.

And we've got to do something about it to be disqualified.

They ought to be subsidizing these.

Well, they are.

They are, and that's the problem.

We're getting in front of that business.

Your attorney general is...

All right, we'll stop that.

They take the legislation and they access the old things.

They access the old things and all that business, sir.

Well, that is going to be changed by God.

We can do that.

Yeah, I'm going to take the final what's happening and have it informed of it.

I don't think so.

It's supposed to be an ideal life.

It's supposed to be life.

All right.

I stand corrected, sir.

No, but I have to say, I just feel that it's only with communications that, if this thing on the arts is gonna be within, for example, one of these guys out there was saying, I said, I said, what's the program doing?

He said, well, he says, out of plots, he said, 200,000 little kids that otherwise never would have an opportunity to go to, I don't know, whether they should have an art gallery or something, oh, they had a symphony or not a symphony or some kind of music, got to come to a music album.

That's great.

I think that's wonderful.

Understand, I'm for that.

Because one of those little kids, or a dozen of them or so forth, may get a little inspiration and all of them are helped by it.

Otherwise, they'd sit before their damn television crew in their bubblegum and stay in the weights back there and say, we are on the floor.

Understand?

Therefore, what I want you to do, though, is to remember that what I'm trying to do here, I think you should get all the parts out of this and do that, right?

After this, if you call us, we'll be people.

The president has said that we are going to leave.

We want the commission of the arts to have a special responsibility for our children.

Our freedom of quality in America is we need to support it.

What do you think, Bob?

Do you agree?

And I can't pass right over to Bob, because he's a decent human being.

Well, he may sound terrible, but I'm getting him to play.

The studio is getting attacked and he's going down.

But you've got to write it.

You've got to write it.

The trouble I saw, and this is what I want to do in this meeting here, the trouble I saw was

and the outpacing that they're not.

This is just New Jersey movies, but it's the quality of the movies, and it's what they're trying to say.

They've got to tell some stories, and I think they've got to shape up to it.

There was a writer who sat in the back of the room, I don't know who he was, he popped up and said, I don't know how many years he did this, he said, we don't need help, we've got to help ourselves.

He said, well, the screenwriters go.

Tell him the screenwriters go.

Apparently, they're very good writers, obviously.

Now, they've changed their complexity for that.

But all in all, I think he's done an excellent job.

I don't know whether it's what he's made of this.

He's justified that they're pleased to get a chance to do something.

I don't think it makes any moves.

That's all officials interested in.

In a conservatory, that's the right thing to do.

I'll tell you where it does help though, Nancy.

It helps with people like Lee Annenberg, for example.

She's a great gal.

And it helps with people like, it'll help with deadlines.

You know, he's never asked her anything.

That's why his wife should be honest.

You know his wife?

You ever meet his wife?

Oh, she's a lovely gal.

But she's just, you know, she's a snake.

And you know, here's a guy, one of the wealthiest people, but then you never know it, except if he lives in a $300,000 house.

$500,000 house.

which is the most expensive golf course.

But maybe, I don't know as well, except that I know that he's got the best part.

He's old, too.

Let's get somebody on me.

Maybe he'll go into the White House.

He will.

Oh, he will.

You just have to love him.

I mean, it is a miracle.

I don't want to be a big money.

It was too big to get into my office, but I think he's got big enough doors.

Well, you see what I mean?

I want to help some of those people that can help us.

Jack Knight is not going to help us.

I think we need to get something from Herschel.

You see, the thing is, the trouble is with Jack Knight.

I don't know.

Jack Hines is part of the Eastern establishment.

He's on every list that I've got in here.

He's a nice dog.

I have had him, I've had him, I used to have him virtually every dinner I've had him and so forth.

He's a very pleasant fellow, but he never will miss.

Period.

Never.

What the hell was it?

There's some people that feel so strongly about the arts.

For example, Herschel.

And if he were given a little attention, I think he might move from being a Democrat to a Republican.

Well, that's fine.

I don't mind.

But my point is, why do we always have him on the list and never have Ted Cummings on the list?

That's what I mean.

You've got to be very bold to do your campaign, vote for your policy.

who is supposed to be back in Wachowski, who has one of the best collections, and that's Arthur Simon.

Yeah.

Why didn't you suppose he was supposed to come out from Wachowski?

Well, didn't he come out for the...

There's a story.

That's the exact report.

What did Arthur Simon do?

Bob, why don't you do this?

Bring Norbert Simon in.

Call him up at a detention.

Bring him in to see me.

LLM.

I think he's wonderful.

Norbert Simon needs attention.

He's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh, he's got that, uh,

I didn't follow that.

Okay.

I haven't caught a son, but I thought he was over there with the muskies.

Not necessarily.

He's not too smart.

He's very dumb in his own way.

Bob is a better student.

He had to live with me longer on the board than I did.

Erratic.

But it's worth playing around with, though, I think.

I think because there's unlimited money there.

Right.

And he has this unbelievable art collection.

Would he like to be an ambassador?

Has he had a new wife?

Not yet.

Well, wait until he gets the wife.

He wouldn't want to be an ambassador.

He would like to be an ambassador.

Yes, if he does, it's an art sign.

He wouldn't want to turn it down.

You're alright.

You're only about four countries where it makes a difference.

You know that Darwin couldn't make a difference wherever he came from.

Well, he could do something else, though, Chad.

That's why, but on a thing like this, though, then, why not put him on a thing like this?

That's the point.

I don't think we should have.

He's kind of like this.

He might be worth a lot.

Now, the problem is that you can put him on.

He's like an octopus.

He goes, and then it's all over.

You've got to stop him.

The Hirschhorn Museum couldn't be worse than it.

You can't make it worse.

It's a disaster now.

You can't hurt it.

Nothing.

It's not going to be a disaster.

I'm not worried.

I just read what I see in the papers.

No, listen.

I wash my hands in the nap thing just so I don't have to look out the window.

The main thing is that doesn't get an art assignment.

And honor, you know.

Is he a modern art comic?

Oh, yes.

Wow.

The quality of this collection is on the renaissance masquerade.

Let me say this.

But you see, if I, and also looking at the situation, you call me and say it, and just say, I want to talk to him.

Maybe once you have him fly in and talk to you, I'll see you next week.

It's a good time for me.

I got some time next week.

on the first three days when you do the election.

Now, he's also got some ideas, and Joseph has talked to him about the whole problem with the airlines.

Excellent.

All right.

Does he own one?

No, he might buy one.

He wants to go to a free enterprise system, and Joseph's got a case for that.

I mean, he's got a reason to come in.

Good.

Now, let's get away from the main thing, because we want him to come in because we want to...

I had only one contact with him, Bob, and that was in connection with something, I forget, but he said, I want to see somebody.

I'm never able to see anybody, and I have these management ideas and so on and so on.

So I think he is going to honor next week.

We voted.

In other words, the...

They just think what you're doing is just tremendous.

That's just tremendous.

It's not just these, you know, the people in Salamanca.

You know, I understand the need.

And that's why you're going to get all the honors you've ever earned before you send it to each other.

I thank you, Mr. President.

I had a good time getting it.

I appreciate so much your writing.

Well, that's fine.

All right.

And, uh, I relate.

That's what's going on.

The old firm's doing pretty well.

They're only kind of unbelievable.

We had to stick right in the middle.

You know, we played a little, we played a little risk, you know, on this, uh, this, Bob Holden pointed out, when I, did you know that little search over the last, we didn't know what that woman, she wasn't born, she's, she's, uh, she could have been gone.

All the other way.

All right, that's what made it.

I don't know.

It was on television last time, too.

The whole thing was, of course, writing.

You know, the whole pretty solid structure of the text is taking your line, you know, and the basics of the matter in the last few minutes.

Well, I appreciate your call.

I'm in California.

We have to stick to it.

That's an honest argument to say that the main thing is to let them do what they do.

The movie then, I think, is terribly important because

And as you say, it's the future of the country.

And frankly, I don't know too much about it.

I'm trying to report it myself.

But it's going to be a stand-up television, how it will venture, really.

And let me start with that question, basically.

I didn't say anything, but our marriage was over.

We make a lot of damn turkeys.

They're a hard job.

Nancy does.

I was going to raise, she raised it.

We built her.

The biggest problem is not anything you can do anything about.

You've got to make a policy.

You've got to go ahead and do whatever it's going to take.

It's a little bit of work, I'm okay with it.

It's a good gala.

I think our thing does help some of them.

I think it has an appeal.

It's an ordinary thing.

You're never going to know it.

Okay, we got a poll.

On approval, 52-32.

Two on approval, one on disapproval.

Kind of interesting.

on the hem of Vietnam.

It's 48 to 40.

Instead of 42 to 46.

That really changed that turn.

Completely flipped on Vietnam.

Good.

48 to 40 is a hell of a shift.

Yeah.

And that's of everybody, not just the people who saw it.

Good.

That's important.

Did you see the report?

53% yes.

Which is about right.

judge of the rating and everything else.

And this is, as you know, I haven't seen these.

Of the people who didn't see the report, another 16% said they heard

And who were aware of what you had said?

What was your reaction to a very favorable tone?

Very favorable, 18.

Some unfavorable, 26.

Total, 44.

It's not there.

Because it doesn't have, you know, 100.

It says here these figures are correct, but not consistent.

20 to 44 is only 64, probably 69.

I see that's to the 69.

Those are of the total.

Then we add the 69.

They have a percentage to each other.

Oh, that's on the 69?

Yeah.

So that's exactly.

So it's actually, that is again 69 rather than just 100.

Right.

They've added it up the wrong way.

I think you have to say 31% that you'd say no pension because they were not asked the question.

Well, yeah, what you could do is take the 18 as a percent of 69, which means adding 50%.

Actually, the 18 would be about 26.

And the 26 would be about 38.

So the total would be about 64, 65.

And the nose 20 would be about 30.

That's not bad.

That's quite good, actually.

That compares, for instance, to the press conference, where it was 20 very favorable, 39 somewhat favorable, and 59 total favorable.

This one's 65 total favorable.

Like after the State of the Union, it was 26 very favorable, 47 somewhat, which was 60, 73%.

Of course that was a small audience.

Now this one though, this was the 69% who had either seen it or read about it.

65% were favorable, 30% unfavorable.

Yeah, because the 18 figure then was 18 of 100.

Correct.

Yeah.

Which would be 26 of the 69.

50% of them are.

Is that right?

Yeah, they are, correct.

Approximately, about.

A little bit less than 50% more, so I added a little bit less.

26, 26, 38.

The unfavorable is fine.

The raw figure, 11 and 9 somewhat vary.

Total of 20.

Well then that's 11 and 9 plus you'd have to add 50 to that and that'd be 30%.

Yeah.

About 30 in February.

As half of the press conference was 33% unfavorable.

The State of the Union was 20.

The OESH was 27 unfavorable.

67 people.

It's about the same as the Cambodian speech.

67.

Good.

All right.

Now, I think that's the figure to get out here, is the reaction to the speech.

Don't you think so?

Yeah.

But in terms of the figure.

Now, do you feel that the plans for withdrawal do pass?

You don't have approval of the war?

Rather than popularity, the approval of the warship.

Now, look at this.

This is the orientation.

Do you feel President Nixon's plan to withdraw is too fast, too slow, or just about right?

Too fast, 6%.

Now, wait a minute.

Are these everybody?

Or are those who heard the speech?

Everybody.

All right.

Let's see.

It's everybody.

We can gather just those who heard the speech.

All right.

Well, that's all right.

We'll get it in a few minutes.

But the interesting thing that's there is the shift.

Before the speech, the first of the week, too fast was 5, then moved to 6, and they were just the same.

Too slow was 46, now it's 40.

Just about right was 38, now it's 42.

You move 6% away from the two slow, one of them went to too fast, four of them went to just right, and one of them went to no opinion.

So the two slow folks, which is 46%, have now gone substantially down.

Where are they now?

Forty.

Forty-two say about right.

In other words, they're more saying you're right than they're saying you're too.

Well, that's where you get your 48-48 figure.

Yeah, two plus six.

The two fast and the two dark fast.

There it is.

That's exactly it.

Yeah.

Then we ask which of these actions do you favor?

Meaning withdrawal is 27, which is what it was before 27.

Withdrawal by end of 71 is 22 down to 24.

Withdrawal can take as long as .

It's now 27, and it was 27.

No change.

Withdrawal by end of 71.

It's now 22, it was 24.

No change, really.

Take as long as necessary to turn the war over to the South Vietnamese.

It's now 31, it was 30.

No change.

Even there, we went to complete victory.

It's 11.

It was 11 before.

There's no change in the answers to that question.

What it says is that their view of what should be done has not changed, but their view that you are doing it has changed.

They have the same view as to what ought to be done that you convinced me you're doing, which shows what we're pulling against here.

Interesting.

Now, the question, do you prefer the President's plan or the Democratic caucus?

No change.

President's plan 55, that's what it was on the first of the week.

Democratic caucus is 30, it was 33 the first of the week, so they went down a little bit.

I had to look that out as far as .

We threw in, just because we had the question, the space we asked if the approver disapproved of Roy J. Hoover's ending his job as director of the FBI.

And the approval was 44, disapproved 21, no opinion, 35.

Except in January, we asked the same question then.

The approval was 65, disapproved 15.

So he's lost 20 points in approval.

Yeah.

Six have gone to disapproval.

The rest are uncertain.

He's losing.

Then there's been some criticism.

In fact, Hoover continues in office at 75 years old.

He didn't think he should retire or not.

Yes, 52, no, 36.

Before it was yes, 49, no, 41.

Now there's not much change there.

Yeah, there's a change.

He's losing.

That'll do that.

What's interesting on the approval thing, I don't think that makes, I mean when you consider that, I don't think the 54-31 and the 52-32 make a hell of a lot of difference, you know what I mean?

What it shows is that the 54 reaction to Cali didn't deteriorate enough in America.

Well, it didn't at all.

That could be it.

It could have been leveled up just like 41 was leveled down.

And they thought so.

And then, because of the way they asked the question, significant things approved or disapproved?

Well, I think of the war.

Yeah.

Right.

And that really shifted.

I wanted to get that out.

Well, you've got to get it to us.

And now, I'm not sure about this really.

We're in hard control of the general funding.

to go over, to go again.

We've got this.

And with Gallup oil and all the rest, you know, Gallup was last Sunday.

No, but Harris is cold.

Harris was cold yesterday.

We've got this as a benchmark against Harris.

I think we've got to do Monday for our own knowledge.

I want to see what happens.

Four or five days later.

All right.

Perhaps what happens right after a TV thing.

It might be a little more valid reading than this one is.

Yeah.

It might go up.

And it might go down.

You don't have to use any of them.

All right.

I'm going to see if you've got some other questions.

Include the radio.

Well, it shows that we, that, you know, when you really start to think of it, though, you know, speeches just don't turn that many people around.

They're not many that you start to think of.

That turnaround, approve or disapprove of the war, it's very significant.

Don't you think so?

I sure do.

That's what we did in one speech.

And you've got a very high approval on count.

You know?

So now you're down to the 52%, which is right where you, that's the base we were before.

No, we were a little higher than that before Laos.

That's where we were, right after Laos.

But before Cali.

The Laotian thing still, you haven't overcome the Laotian cost yet.

Except the disapproval has been on some.

Yeah, because then it's 3736.

It's around in there.

Yeah, it's 32.

Yeah.

That's, that's, he said, yeah, I still think it's the important number.

It's the approval number.

Oh, yeah.

That's right.

The important number.

You can keep that down.

Kick the undecided up a little and the unfavorable and the approval up a little.

It's the fact we've already gone, we put it out yesterday, last night.

There's nothing to do with that, is there?

Yes, sir.

It was a bad, good number.

Well, we did it on a trend basis, but it was up, you know, up three points from last month and down five points on the disapproval.

That's solidified now.

It's exactly the same as what we're on now.

We can get back.

With that chip, right, it holds.

So I think we're on sound track.

Now the real thing is sound, though, is the pop and the feeling about that, the war.

We need to get that back.

We've got to have confidence in the war.

What this shows you, however, is that your problem is not just, and has not been, just the water.

It goes back to the economy and the other things are also in demand of them.

You know, what they think of the man as president, you know what I mean?

Right?

If you get some of that building up to here to have revenue sharing, having stock to it, all those things, that's what I mean.

And also the economy.

That thing starts moving some, that's going to change some.

Coming back, I can't do the other thing.

I thought some more about the person.

I just don't think I should be on TV next morning.

This is what I just got asked.

We got a quick check from some people.

I'll give you a quick look at that.

Colson felt strongly he should be on.

And Sapphire, for instance, backs that up on the grounds that it's not overexposure.

It's been a long time since you've done a press conference.

It's a good alternative to a press conference, and you can talk about a lot of things at your best form, which is Q&A or others.

You know, says he didn't realize it was going to be so close to the speech.

If the questions are on the war, what more can be said?

If we could be sure there were no questions on the war, then he should do it.

Promise you.

But he thinks you should drop it, because it is too soon.

There's nothing you can say that you haven't already said.

People are tired of Vietnam questions, and they won't blame the questioners.

They'll blame you for talking about Vietnam.

Why do I need talking about Vietnam?

That's right.

Okay, Scali.

Do you have a paper?

Scanlon says, first of all, he doesn't believe the Q&A session should be televised.

He thinks that the moment the president is overexposed on TV, another appearance coming so soon after the withdrawal speech and the other interviews would be interpreted as a sign that he's trying to talk his way back into popularity.

The ASNE representing the written press would not be staggered by disappointment if the president talks informally without the cameras, so you're not accused of ducking out on anything.

If you are highly effective, you can reply that on this occasion on the written press and on Trump over the next year to your department.

You can reply.

That's what he's saying.

If it comes out highly effective, as you undoubtedly will be, you can rely on the written press and the film-television excerpts to do but this.

It is original, I will not be in love with it, but I don't think we should.

Oh, sir, oh, sir, I'm behind cameras in the room.

Since the film-television excerpts undoubtedly will lead to Saturday network television news shows, huh?

Press's comments will lead all Saturday morning papers carried into next week's news magazines.

That's good coverage, even if it's not prime television time on Friday night, which is not traditionally a big audience here.

All this does not mean the person should not have some other opportunity to go on TV.

Final thought is it is indispensable that the AS&E allow television film cameras to cover.

I suspect they'll do this as a matter of routine, but as a precaution, you could make this a condition.

He's leaning there to his benefits of his background.

Cliff Miller agrees that you should not do it, and Dick Warner is very strong that you should not do it.

What's that original?

The same as Scali's.

Over to you.

Over-exposed, I didn't think that.

No, this point is not over-exposed.

Scali also makes a point it would be publicly interpreted as an effort to defend the Vietnam speech, thus making us defensive on the Indochina policy.

That's essentially what you were saying.

You've said it all now and there's no point in saying it again.

Exactly.

And they will be out there banging, bugging me on every one of those, you know, harassing me on every one of these little nitpicks.

And I don't want to be doing it on television.

Let's let it ride a month.

And a month, we may have other questions to talk about.

We can maybe talk.

Let's do the August 1st conference Saturday morning as well.

Absolutely.

And do the Q&A at the ASA.

Do the Q&A at ASA, but there's no television.

And I do the radio here.

Okay, let's just not do it.

Let's just say this is for the written press and play it that way.

The President feels that this should be for the written press and that it should not be a shallow stage for television.

Put it that way.

Okay.

All right.

We just, that's decided?

Yeah, that's decided.

We've got to turn that.

Yeah, we just say that.

Also, I put it on the basis of the television cameras will take seats away from the people that want to be there.

So that's true.

There's a production problem.

We find that there are very difficult production problems if there are a number of people, the number of seats.

We've taken a hundred, it takes about a hundred seats to win.

Bob, there was a monumental problem on the black tie question, because it's a black tie dinner.

So I don't know, what do you do?

You take in the black tie and go on TV and all that.

It's a lot of, Donald, the president has thought about it.

He just feels it should be with the written press.

You know, the other thing is, Bob, that you have to remember, we'll run into the very same thing we did after the Cambodian

conversation July 1st.

We hadn't been on television.

We had been on television about three times.

But you remember that the press then went through that awful, awful orgasm about the president being too dominant to use television.

He shouldn't be allowed to do this and all that crap.

Yeah.

And they will do this assurably singular if you run a press conference.

This is another thing, the emotional impact of this last one.

I think it's good to let that ride.

That'll ride another two weeks.

It'll ride a month.

In fact, it'll ride longer than most of the election weeks I've said.

People are going to remember it.

Don't you think so?

I think it will.

It very definitely will.

And I think you assured them of the intellectual things.

They know there's a plan that's going to get a hundred thousand, a lot of guys that you're going to bring home and all that, right?

Don't forget that, but don't remember, geez, you're going to be really triggered.

That's the problem.

What about that little boy?

Little boy?

I feel much better about doing that thing that way.

And I'll just get up there and pass questions out.

The editors will have a chance to...

The guy's talking about what was for Colson.

No, Saffire.

Well, Colson was.

Colson and Saffire were.

Yeah.

But I mean, the guy's outside.

See, I want to get away from the White House.

Let's look at Colson.

Colson's argument is he is not good on PR.

His judgment is not good.

I think it's worth asking him, but you know what I mean?

It's like, well, uh...

I don't, yeah, I have never bought Sapphire's ejections.

I've bought Sapphire's ID's.

Copy this.

You can talk about 40 minutes, not just the war.

Well, that's a lot of belonging.

The questions will be 90% of the war.

I will predict.

And you could say I've recovered that Wednesday night and I'm not going to talk about the war anymore, but then they're going to really drive you by the time, right?

That would be one way to set it up on that base.

No, no, no, no.

I won't do that.

You can't do that.

It's got to be here on the basis of whatever they want to ask.

It's much better, Bob.

Let's get rid of the editors and then do an office press conference the next day.

But then, be sure you don't have film coverage.

Why?

I don't know.

It clutters up the goddamn place, Bob.

I just feel I'll be more effective without having film coverage.

I don't think you have to have film coverage.

I don't think, listen, we do a lot for television around here.

I don't think you need the cameras that we have, and I'm not sure that it's good, you know, giving television editors a chance, an excerpt of what they want is not at least too much of their mercy.

I'd be tough to scout.

The other thing we could do then, however, is come to ourselves.

The point of doing that.

The film is going to make that much dirt and won't get that much use.

It's hard to tape it and decide afterwards whether we want to make, if they ask for it, make the tape available to radio to run later.

A radio tape.

A radio tape is hard.

As a matter of fact, I am not sure that I mind a radio, maybe radioing it.

Yeah, who would even know if he raised his hand to know it's Reagan if you have to talk to him on the mic?

Yeah, we have to have mics anyway.

And I'm not sure that maybe raising your hand is not too bad.

I kind of like that.

It's not interfering with the focus on Friday night, but they're telling us that anybody who wants to hear the President can.

Yeah, and it's recorded.

Well, I review every morning, and I check that out with Miller and the rest.

Radio, I'll buy, but not the television.

I'll immediately, and I will not have film.

I'm not going to have film in the theater.

I mean, if you're going to go television, I'll knock it out, period.

Let me play that in the audience.

That would go against Scallions.

Well, he wasn't successful with the last television film.

No, no, no, no.

It is not.

He's got to learn.

Yes, it's not important, but Bob Scali would say it was indispensable for me to allow film coverage of a posthumous Medal of Honor ceremony to, you know, just as Ziegler pushes on that.

But I don't know how I do it.

I didn't allow it to the women the other day.

I've not done a half of that.

And there are times, they're just going to say, oh, they've got an artist behind them where television is not going to get in.

Other times where it will.

No, I don't think so.

I just simply say we just can't do it.

Scully's got a, he can argue his point, I don't have films in there.

You know what that'll mean, all those cameras lined up and they're grinding away and everybody will be on edge.

You know, it's gonna be the same kind of a deal.

But you have to lighten it, you gotta lighten it.

It'll lighten, it'll be hot.

It'll be hotter than hell in there.

It'll be uncomfortable.

That's the other factor that's about this sort of thing.

No, it's hot, it's hot, they're not gonna love it.

The argument, I'll pose back, that has been made for, and it is to you, for doing it on TV, one of the things is, because we've talked about it in good format, one of the things it would do is you'll have applause at the end of your answers.

And it would be a dangerous thing on television to be questioned.

We can do that some other time.

This isn't the time to do it, but I think that's the overriding factor.

We're at the Chamber of Commerce now, so we'll pass out by that time.

So if you're at the Chamber of Commerce, if you already have questions, or somebody who would kind of do it on that basis.

You would say the ASNE was so great, everybody said, why wasn't it on television?

So we agreed to do the Chamber on television if you wanted something like that.

That is a good thing to say.

We'll find something.

We'll find a form.

It's easy.

We can make a form.

We'll produce one.

Why don't you go out and do the Chicago League of Honor Club at night one time?

Do that at night.

You know, that's a good one.

That's not considered to be quite as, like, a chamber of commerce than Chicago League of... Oh, the Chicago Sandwich Club.

The Chicago Sandwich Club.

I don't do Detroit.

I do Chicago.

That Chicago second is the goddamn front.

Let's talk about the other business that's going on.

I don't know anything.

where I thought we could be.

And, uh, because Cali didn't do the immediate emotional thing, and I feel as good for the moment.

But then, uh, and it settles around, and there we are.

Now, then, on the Monday one, we go back up a hundred feet.

I think we'll probably go up.

Just as it sets in, people will talk about it.

Because I'll have a lot of partisans saying, gee, that was great.

That's what I report.

Unless the negative, unless it's going to be in the negative studio, I'm just going to kind of balance that.

Well, it's very interesting.

He feels about less than 100.

I've talked to him about this.

He feels it.

On how many?

There's very many.

I think the war issue, I think our interest, I think it's in our interest to get the war issue out of the news for a while.

Don't you think so?

We may have something else good going on.

Maybe something else good.

I think, suppose we get a random assault attack or something.

Change the guy off.

Then do a televised thing.

I don't know what I'm talking about.

When I speak on the positive side.

Today.

I would be the other way.

This would tend to solidify.

Okay.

I came off with your question.

Fine.

How hard was the impression?

Not hard.

After I started off, I said, gentlemen, we're dealing with impressions and interpretations here.

I'll stand on what I said yesterday.

That's the president's policy.

I tried to stop it there before I stopped the story.

I got three follow-up questions, which then I went through in a very low-key way, the impressions and so forth.

And as we discussed it, that the president has a plan he's pursuing.

He has a period of time to accomplish that.

He said that before publicly.

I said the president is not going to put himself in a straitjacket in terms of establishing a fixed state.

I said that the very essence

of the President's policy of Vietnamism, the genius goal of complete withdrawal of all U.S. forces from South Vietnam, based upon progress in Vietnamization and negotiation.

And the essence of the President's plan is a reassessment, continuing reassessment.

points that I made.

And then I finally concluded by saying it is a wrong interpretation to say that the president has a fixed day, or a fixed day, et cetera.

Then I hit the McCracken thing.

And I hit the endowment of our name because you have contributed.

I mean, the budget was important.

The fact that you had asked the president to

providing more money and so forth for the arts and the other parts.

No, I just wanted to hear you.

And talk about the National Endowment Program dealing with underprivileged children and so forth, which Trump has referred to the other day.

I decided not to do a television party.

I'm going to have an office press conference so that the other, all the working press can have a chance to follow up on questions that have come to the editors.

I've just done a little checking around here, and I know we tend here in Washington to be so obsessed with making our sales and everything.

I simply don't want to talk about the war again.

And 80% of the questions will be about the war for an hour, if I'm on next Friday.

And it gets completed talking about the war in a very positive way.

Because the questions then will be in the adversary machine, and I'll have to do it, and I keep pounding home the points.

I'd like to say that we could let the war issue move off the television screen for a while.

We will.

If we don't come back with a polarized press conference,

within about two weeks.

Two weeks, probably.

So we'll do the editors, let it replay to the editors this time, and put it in the writing press, and we'll be, they're all in black tie, you don't have the heat of the television lights, we're not gonna have enough to have films or anything like that.

No film, maybe.

I don't like the idea.

I either need a bunch of films, then I'm gonna finalize it.

Do I better?

Yeah, I'll do it.

So no film.

We might do radio.

I think radio might be a nice little compromise, I think, where everybody, people who are sitting there, they don't have to worry about the cameras and lights and so forth and so on.

Radio, I guess, which means that then they have audio.

See the TV for their programs the next day, we all have audio.

They have audio, but they're not in the picture.

All right, this will be done on a Friday night.

The film isn't going to make much difference anyway.

It's probably for Saturday night.

Probably.

I don't want to tell the day I'm going to use it, though.

We won't get much while together, though.

Not as much as normal.

Let's face it.

A Saturday night.

If it's in a Friday film, that would be different.

A Saturday night.

It's great.

All right.

Well, I think that's what our plan is at the moment.

But the televising is not going to go on national television again.

Because we may have something that will change the dialogue here in the next two weeks anyway.

We may have, I'm not sure.

But it may have just like a dream.

It may have, because of the war issues, it may have tripped down to a percentage.

Now, the other problem is that you're going to have very good economic indicators on Thursday and Friday, which would be an opportunity to hypo those if you were on television.

Well, the first quarter of the day is going to be very good.

They won't ask any questions about it.

I'm sure your questions will be on the war.

Despite Howard Smith, you've got about 80% of the war.

Of course, one of the points that I think

be made is that you could turn that off in the first few questions simply by saying, I've talked about our policy on Vietnam.

We're proceeding without the American people understand it.

Let's tonight talk about

Domestic matters or domestic programs and so forth are in the other parts of foreign policy now.

There would be a way to cue the panel to that also.

That is just one option that should be raised in terms of whether or not they would talk totally about the war.

Well, let's suppose they didn't talk about other things.

I mean, that sort of thing.

Yeah, just to give Ron a good rundown, or you already know about these other guys.

The guys outside, in other words, you know, we sit here, Ron.

Right.

I thought we were going to have a dialogue, and then the proper talk would go on again.

What you want to remember is that this broadcast had a big audience.

Second, it had great impact, and, you know, favorable impact.

Now, it's pretty good that the lead there takes a little while.

rather than say, well, here he is again.

You see what I mean?

Even though it's a different thing.

Then they come on again, and I think about the...

I just hate for you for...

Excuse me, I'm sorry.

Hate you for what?

Well, okay.

I just hate the...

It's such a good forum.

I hate not to have at least...

that setting and the president responding to questions in that form, presented in some way in picture form.

Scali's view, he says it should not be televised, that another appearance coming so soon after the Vietnam withdrawal speech and the other interviews would be interpreted widely as a sign that he's so worried about the image and so on.

He's going to talk his way back into popularity.

The second point is the ASNE, which represents the written press, won't be staggered with discipline if the president leaves out one or two minutes.

So he is ducking out of a basic purpose, which is to answer questions from a panel representing the written press.

If he's highly effective, as he undoubtedly will be, he can rely on the written press and on the film and television excerpts to reflect this.

The film excerpts will be believed to Saturday Network TV News.

President's comments will lead all Saturday morning papers carried into next week's magazines.

All this does not mean the President should not have some other opportunity in the near future to go on television for Vietnam or other allied purposes.

My final thought is that it is indispensable that ASNE allow television film cameras to cover the president's Q&A session.

I suspect they'll do this as a matter of routine, but as a precaution to make this a condition.

I don't think that's cool at all.

You're keeping out all the time.

Now that's what he says.

Cliff Miller and Dick Moore both agreed with it, agreed with that view.

Moore is very strong on the phone.

It's not about the filming though.

I don't know.

All I have is that Miller would ask .

Scali makes the point that it would be interpreted as a further effort to defend the Vietnam speech, thus putting some of the .

There are others making the point that he didn't realize that AS&E was so close to the speech, and that if the questions are on the war,

Well, they will if they didn't.

What can he say that he hasn't already said?

People are tired of Vietnam questions, and they won't blame the questioners.

They'll blame the president for keeping crying about Vietnam.

Correct.

And he said if we could be sure that there were no questions on the war, then there'd be no problem.

No way.

Because he's inside a new one.

If you can ask the war questions to one or the other, that's impossible.

With the editors owning the great strength of that thing, you've got to let them feel that it's not contrived.

They've got to ask something they have no peace.

So the war, there's no way you can do that without having the war be the major subject.

That's all they're interested in.

They don't care about the other thing.

Except if you...

that you've just given about not using live TV at 9 o'clock, and looking at how we convey the real plus, which I believe it will be in that format, to people outside of that room.

Well, I think...

I think my view is that it should be on film.

Not in a big, complex way on film, but filmed as a speech would be filmed.

And on live radio, I think radio would pick it up live.

We could let them do that, many would.

I think radio networks would pick it up, I'm sure.

But then they get banned.

Let me ask you this on film.

Is there a change now?

We are always too, much, much too quiet with these civil people.

Can you do it with one camera?

Yes, ma'am.

Just one?

Yes, sir.

Can you do it with one camera?

I will not have five cameras up there knocking out 30 seats and all those goddamn lights.

Can you do it with one camera and minimal lighting?

Minimal lighting.

Because on camera you don't need as much light.

Cool it.

Yes, sir.

But no one's in... Well, there's...

It's fairly tight, but that's all right.

That doesn't matter.

We don't want it to move.

The other thing you can do is allow an electronic camera.

So that they get a take.

Allow one electronic cool camera.

Well, now, wait a minute.

There's a lot I can tell you.

Doesn't that also have a problem?

All the cameras have one camera.

We're just better off.

It doesn't take the massive lighting thing and the production type thing to do it.

See, what we would probably want, we'd want to take a look at the setup.

There's one camera fairly far back from the president, so it's not blocking anyone, but still close enough to get a good shot.

And then maybe one to get the panel at some point.

But something that the president wouldn't even notice.

Or just one camera.

Like the Kennedy Press Conference.

We saw this film of it.

They used one camera.

They can pull back and get a wide shot and they tighten up.

We can do it on one camera.

I think it should be one camera.

I will only consider film if it is one camera.

One camera.

This is one camera.

And provided I have any problems, it's not difficult.

I'm not going to have everybody on that.

It should be black tie, of course.

Whatever they want.

If it's a black tie, then I'll be in black tie.

God damn right.

You know, and that's no problem.

This idea that you should be in black tie during intercourse.

I think that was going to be my argument, even on television, was that we should do it on the black side.

Absolutely.

If you look good, if it looks presidential.

Absolutely.

As a candidate, that's a different thing.

We didn't do black side.

And when it's editors, not Republican backers, the newspaper editors, you've got to do the right thing.

There's nothing wrong with that.

No, there's nothing wrong with that.

People used to see presidents as black parents.

Well, they don't expect you anymore.

Well, that's my answer.

They're welcome to film it, but we're not going to do the other.

But I definitely do not think it should be, I know it shouldn't be on law.

I just feel it should not nominate these television screen networks.

If we should let them take live radio, but live radio is never a problem.

I never mind private radio.

That's a couple million people.

Oh, well, no, but the beauty of it is it replayed over the weekend.

Sure, thanks.

That's on Saturday, Sunday, January.

Weekend, 100%.

You know, with 15, 20 minutes.

On the economic figures, it doesn't matter.

One guy on there, Vermont Rescue, on the panel.

They already put him on.

One day they insisted we put him on.

We added the two wire service guys as a...

We talked about it.

I don't care about that.

Vermont Chrysler, they might ask some questions.

The economic figures are quite a few.

The first quarter figures will be out Thursday and Friday.

I think they've already been pretty well discounted with the exception of the office.

That discounted people don't know about.

Retail sales, I suppose.

It's GNP.

GNP and unemployment.

The other one was already on with the quarter.

They do have, what is it, there's several different indicators, but they're all out there.

Some on Thursday and some on the day after.

They will be interpreted as a plus.

Yes.

First quarter, three years on, unemployment's got to be down.

That's quarter-wise, yeah.

.

Do you want to see history first?

I think the film thing is a consideration, but only if it's that other way.

There's no reason they can't do that.

Yeah, we can work it out.

We cannot block people anymore.

Well, and also, all of that would be a film thing, but we've got to get all their camera up there.

I understand.

One film.

One man?

I'll call him today and tell him that I've got to turn together.

We've got to see about that, yeah.

You don't have to worry about that at all.

The suggestion, and we want to check it first, is that you might want to walk over.

Sure.

And I want to be sure that you might get up a crowd for me.

I'm sure you want to do that on the other side.

In my inclination, you should better drive.

No, no, no.

We always rush the job.

There's a chance of some jackass coming up.

You know, I'm trying to make an incident, and then that embarrasses the hell out of me.

You know, we go in the car.

You drive up to the door, and you're dead.

I don't know what you're saying.

Nobody should be told.

I'm not going to have a budget on that.

Are there any out there right now?

We'll check that before you go.

If there are, we just won't go.

That's right.

If you have any possibility of that, because I'm not going to have Easter season begin with a picture of the president getting heckled at the church, I'm not going to do it.

I agree.

That's where...

Check it out first.

Good afternoon, my mother's dead.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

They're going to be here, you know.

They're going to spend all their time.

I think that's always the day of the dead, sir.

Now, that's the only who can't come in here.

You've got to come.

Thank you, sir.

I'll let you come next.

You get one of those.

All right.

We probably have one, Michigan.

We don't have any music for ladies, do we?

We're going to make something soon.

Well, I think we'll get a bit of pleasure from coming here.

I can't believe we do this.

It's easy to give you a lunch or something to hide or something.

I don't know.

When do you leave?

A week from now.

A week from Saturday.

Are you all set?

No, but we will be.

What a marvelous spot.

It's a great time here.

We're going to take a picture.

Of me?

Yeah, of course.

April 15th you'll be leaving.

So, it's just the right time.

It'll be particularly nice if we're all in Paris.

Questionable.

Rome will be great.

London will be great.

London really isn't good until July.

It's a bad time.

Rome's for everyone.

Even the Protestants.

Good to see you.

That's a good compromise.

I think it probably does make sense.

It does make sense.

And then the television people don't feel you're discriminating.

They'll understand.

They'll sort of read inside our belief that we're not going to knock an hour out of their shows and all that sort of thing.

We'll go and then we'll be ready to go through that later.

The different problem is it gives television actors a chance to feel some half-ass thing.

But they have that chance even when on video on a new show.

No, but we're...

He's talking about the editing of the film, but they have that chance the same audience later to put you in a band.

But I don't think...

They go for the news.

to go in and then hang out.

And instead of the film coverage, it would be very interesting to see what people are saying.

But we won't take it.

We're not going to go up there and crash the television again and spend 45 minutes on Vietnam.

See, that's what's going to happen.

I know these kind of theaters in particular will be loved by people.

Hell, that's all we're interested in.

Like a crowd of that kind.

I want to ask you about anything else.

Goddamn, they couldn't carry us on a grid that didn't shoot our hand.

The economy's a little... Let me answer your question on the economy in one section.

They just aren't there.

But what are you getting to read?

You get more of the most, but because they do read the Washington Pages, the crisis story is about the goddamn war.

A little on the economy.

We've got a little on that today, on the inflationary coming up.

You're not going to breathe this afternoon, are you?

No, sir.

Well, excuse me, I'm not going to breathe, but we have a good story, which is on the summer youth program that we're putting out at 4.

With Hodges Youth?

Yes, sir.

Good.

It's an increase over last year.

Why don't you put it on Saturday or Sunday?

Isn't that better?

I guess not.

Not on Easter Sunday.

Not on Easter Sunday, really.

And we want to make the TV tonight with it.

Right.

You got any coming out for Sunday or Monday?

Well, not Monday.

If you go Sunday or Monday, that's a great story.

Well, no.

The great thing about being up there is you don't have a massive crowd of friends.

Oh, did you check out yet what church you go to?

What did you decide?

The Eisenhower Church in Gettysburg.

It's all right.

Yes, sir.

And the church is absolutely solid.

Well, how about the Gettysburg College, Frank?

He's the guy who did the Eisenhower funeral at Abilene.

Oh, he went out and did it.

Unfortunately, it's on the wire.

I don't know where it came from, but it was on the wire this morning.

I did not confirm the church today in a briefing, though.

All I said was that the person from the temple in the church, it said the church that the Eisenhower used to go to when they were in Gettysburg,

But I left that loose.

Can you find out, was it the Lincoln Church, Lincoln Lincoln?

Yes, it was.

We'll be sure you get that.

It was the church, and there's only confused where he sat.

It was the church where Lincoln went at the time of the Gettysburg Address.

He went and prayed there either before or after the Gettysburg Address.

I know the Gettysburg Address.

I was trying to get across.

1863.

I don't remember what it was.

We've got to move on the church.

There's a historic, historical...

The network guys are telling me.

See, they'll send a crew up on Sunday, but they told me that, you know, the great pressure for the Sunday evening show with CBSF and NBC, and the morning show is the president's first family at church.

So that will be a good...

I'm going to get sure the church is exactly... Mrs. Eisenhower, all of the... and run on every front page of the Newspaper Monday for you.

Yeah, I try.

And it's much better than being in a big city church wearing fancy Easter clothes like that.

I try.

Box clothes and stuff.

You can stay out of the Passion Parade and look like you're religious.

Sorry to announce it, but that does give the chance for some jackass college students to come over and gin up a little demonstration.

That won't do much good on Easter Sunday.

I don't think it's good.

I think it's, you know, it's kind of like...

It doesn't bother...

I'm not...

I wouldn't be interested.

I just don't like it.

I don't...

And the other thing about the building press conference, we may have a chance to do one of those.

One of those is the first demonstration scheduled for April 24th.

The veterans is the 19th.

That's, of course, the other reason the ASNE is ideal, is it's just before the demonstration season starts.

Because the veterans thing is the following Monday, the 19th, and then the following Saturday, the 24th,

It's the first big march, and then it piddles on through May Day and into May 5th.

March after march after march.

Yeah, well, that's good, because they can't sustain it.

The more they announce, the worse off they're going to be.

I personally think, by the way, I just feel that Musty is already endorsing these things.

That's not very smart.

Let him endorse them.

Let him keep endorsing them.

Let him go down there.

and speak down here on the .

But he's already, he's clearly on the record and it's moved in the news today or yesterday.

Call him personally to disavow his support of Randy Davis.

He already did that, his staff thought that a little after Husky had put it out.

They backed off the staff, what did they say?

They issued a clarification type thing and said he didn't need to endorse the whole thing, just the one.

It's fine.

It's beautiful.

It's just like when he didn't mean to tell the mayors he was against red-eye blue sharing.

He didn't mean to say to Kosykin that he was opposed to U.S. foreign policy and he didn't mean to do this and that.

How about Humphrey?

He's got it darsened.

He's getting smarter.

He will.

He probably will.

He has to.

I don't believe it.

I think he's obsessive.

I think Muskie's, you know, his people are pushing him.

They may not know what's happening.

They may be pushing Muskie.

They are Muskie.

They must be worried about him.

They don't know what they're doing.

He's dropping and then he's no good.

He's doing exactly what we thought he would.

He got way out in front and screwed himself up.

I want him to drop.

It's too fast, so.

Yeah.

He joined, actually.

Well, to an extent.

To an extent.

They're starting to be more and more extreme.

And in order to hold, every time they do, they make a jackass statement.

We got a fascinating report from our spy that a staff agent, all the staff, had just chewed their asses out.

When?

A couple, though, last week.

And he just raised hell.

He said, and he was really mad.

He said, I get the feeling, I get advice from outside, then I get different advice from the staff, and I follow your advice, and I get stumped on it every time.

I get the feeling that maybe you're not on my side.

And his staff director said, fine, would you like us to turn in our suits?

And Muskie said, oh, hell no, I didn't.

The staff director said that?

Yeah.

OK, Muskie's in real trouble.

And then Muskie, the other staff director, just this new man, you know, begins to beat.

And Muskie says, oh, hell no, I didn't mean that.

I know you fellas are loyal.

But then he ended the meeting going back to it and thinking, goddammit, you keep pulling me into these directions that get me into trouble.

Here's an inspector who left the meeting.

Here's another problem.

I think probably so.

That's what he's thinking about.

And they did it again, and one of them was crazy, but I don't know what kind of things he did.

What he particularly upset about on this was the mayor's meeting, where they had pulled him in.

He said, I got lousy staff work on that.

And one of the guys said, well, we had sent you the stuff, but he didn't read it.

It was a real lockdown drag out.

He said, well, I never saw it.

And the other guy said, well, I guess I should have sent it to you.

That's great.

He's down in the middle of a staff battle and who gets to the candidate who's saying it and the candidate is blaming the staff for his judgment errors.

He's got one hell of a problem.

That's something you have never done no matter what happens.

He never did any staffing or anything.

The other three people did it wrong, and he's blaming his staff.

I mean, the man makes mistakes.

He can't say, well, if you gave me that advice, that rock color, he didn't say it.

You give the staff credit for the things you do right because their input was good, and you blame yourself and you screw it up.

If they gave you bad advice and you took bad advice, it's your fault.

That's ours.

Hell.

That's what he's hired for.

He's hired to be able to know what bad advice is good.

Let's get it to where his new staff leader is saying, do you want us to turn in our suits?

There's certainly a thing that tells you something a little bit about the mansion too.

What about Henry Stroud's legacy?

He's faded into insignificance over there.

That would be like Henry Furrow.

Henry was so almost.

They're not very interested in Tony.

He's the new staff to us.

How it happens.

The new staff comes in and kind of pushes him.

Who are those inspectors?

Who are inspectors?

Are they former Kennedy people, or what kind of people are they?

Are they, I mean, what's their background?

Are they the right center?

That's the...

I can't remember.

It showed his old, you know, his AA was running the thing, and he's the very abrasive guy currently.

Pretty effective, but just everybody in the staff and outside, and particularly the press, just hate the son of a bitch apparently.

And so he pushed him aside, the son, and then moved this new man in that he brought in a month ago.

He's a big hot shot.

That's the guy who said, do you want us to determine their suits?

Remember what his background is.

Why does that story go on?

We are getting that kind of stuff out on a basis that this is the truth.

We make the point of must-be staff meetings have turned into bitter shouting matches between the candidate and his chief leader.

All right, fine.

Get it out that way.

But be sure that we're not doing this for our own information.

We don't give a damn about this guy unless people get something.

But you don't want to blow up the cover for a guy in there, do you?

We've got fairly good coverage on Humphrey, but we don't have enough on Teddy.

Well, if I didn't see Teddy, send his people over to other places.

Some of them will go, and some go, and he's hurt.

Well, God damn it, there ought to be a way to get him covered.

I wouldn't bother with him covered.

The reason I would cover him is from the personal standpoint.

You're likely to be covered on that.

You were sure?

Pretty much.

You watch him.

I don't predict something more than that.

They're keeping an eye on him.

I meant internal change.

I mean, it's a matter of judgment.

I mean, he just got to see his wife get into the White House again on some crazy outfit.

Body stocking.

A leather gaucho over it.

Well, no, they put on the body stocking, which is flesh tone.

And then they wrap the leather, you know, gaucho type thing around it.

So you look at it from a distance, and you think, my God, there he is.

But she has a body stocking.

Weird.

She was going to wear hot pants, and Teddy told her she couldn't.

They're weird people.

They really are.

I mean, even the crew.

It doesn't matter.

Well, she's kind of a crew.

Whatever it is, she ain't getting any coats.

Because of all that they've got, the super-swinger jet-set types are going to be for them and not for you, no matter what happens.

Oh, the super-swinging jet-set types don't even relate to that type of thing.

They're very small.

It's a very, very small group.

The local American folk, they just, I don't think they like, that's desecration of the Hoyas to most Americans.

When some broad get out, just wear the Hoyas.

Every time she comes, that's why she does it.

She must have, she has to have some sort of hang-up herself.

Personally, she knows what Teddy was doing out there with that girl running her into the water, you know, and what he's been doing.

Well, the guy down there is used to that.

That's what they do all the time.

I think they all know that.

That's all they know.

When Jackie and all the rest of them know that, they've got to expect that.

All right.

Keep the play if you want to get a good ball game to play by their rules.

There you are.

The Muskie thing is so amusing, though.

I think it shows that he just doesn't have any goddamn balance to the concern of the audience staff at this stage.

The thing is, of all of what you said...

It's a tense stage, though, for him, because he's way out there, and that's all he has.

But the mark of the man, the man Muskie, when a staff would make a comment like that, he apparently hasn't been able to achieve the full respect of the staff, which I think is very significant.

Certainly.

It's a rough, it's sure not the time to be getting to a status showdown.

The time to get into that, maybe, is in the reeling through the campaign when everybody is exhausted to the point of not being rational.

That can happen.

And you can get to a point where you can get staff people, you know, just rapidly on the point where they're thinking clearly.

Bring them together and try to shape them up.

But you sure shouldn't be at that point.

He's got all the luxury of time.

The other thing he's doing, which is a mistake, too,

isn't having staff meetings.

And being with them himself.

That's right.

See, it's that old saying, man, you never meet with a staff.

You must not meet with a staff meeting and talk to them.

He's got to figure that.

He's got to be a little more suspicious, help them out, lead.

Somebody's going to get mad.

This idea of the candidate sitting down and talking to the staff about what he ought to do, bullshit.

It's just very, very poor strategy.

This is rude, I've got a transcript in.

I'd like to get, I'd really like to get Teddy Tate, though, if there's something to go on.

Congress was a good reporter.

This is just a brief thing.

House Republicans watched a bitter attack on Minority Leader Boggs.

Devine turned to Boggs, charging Mr. Hoover's scurrilous and outrageous.

He said Boggs was engaging in character assassination for political purposes.

Representative King said that Boggs' speech was one of the most tragic 60 seconds ever in the history of this distinguished House.

The number of Republicans and Democrats implied the recent spate of attacks on Hoover that resulted in organized effort by the Communist Party.

Good.

Representative Eichord presented extensive documentation to support his charge that many of the groups who will be participating in the April 24th demonstrations are communist crimes.

Eichord is a Democrat.

I heard that you guys are congressmen.

Get that out.

Get this out about that communist crime.

Cool, but why don't we get everybody with it and then try to get it out.

There's plenty of time for that.

I think we're going to have a, I don't know, I don't, it may be that they'll have huge numbers.

I'm not so sure.

I don't think they can get about, unless they can do it through the high schools.

It might get them out of the high schools or anything.

I don't think it's going to be on the scale of the one or the two.

It'll be interesting to see.

I sure don't see it, but I could be.

Everybody else here?

I don't know what your intelligence is, but my gut feeling is that the spark's there.

If the spark's there, the main point is wrong.

It has to be organized.

If I got organized, then the other two were organized all too well, right Bob?

Now where the hell is the organization?

It's just like old people in San Fran.

Now maybe this organization will develop, though they've developed in a couple weeks, can't they?

The other one didn't.

The other one took a long time to develop.

The other one was in the fall.

It's a lot easier to do this in the spring.

Cambodian developed pretty fast.

They did all that in a week.

So maybe that's what they're looking for.

If we went out and shot four kids on a campus somewhere, you'd have a pretty good demonstration.

Chancellor of the Administration Building in Santa Cruz at the University of California.

Oh, Christ, yeah.

Did they really not?

Just a minute.

The Administration Building type 4 sub has been accepted to one college in the United States, the University of California at Santa Cruz.

Last night they burnt down the Administration Building.

Who did it?

All the admission records.

Who did it?

The bad guys.

Santa Cruz, Cal, there are bad guys.

That's one of the pockets of, it's a hippie college.

Is it?

Why is it a hippie college?

Well, it's up in the mountains and it's an experimental college.

It's built on the Oxford planet, you know, cluster colleges like Claremont.

Well, if there's a new experiment, are they treating them as if they're from Vietnam?

That's true.

They're running out of Vietnam.

Is that the reason they gave the train to Vietnam?

They kept, like, a house... You know who the chancellor is?

Who?

Dean Kennedy.

Who's he?

political professor of political sciences at UCLA for years and years.

He was a communist.

He ran for Congress in Westwood, remember?

Years ago, Dean McKenna.

Yes.

He was, I don't know, he was a communist.

He belonged to a number of very far left, way left.

What does he say about all of them?

He says they're on the wall.

He didn't say anything.

What do you say they burned it down?

How did they do it?

They gutted the building apparently.

The picture of it looks like the whole there's just some charred beams left.

That campus is one of the most spectacular college campuses I've ever seen.

It's set in the redwoods and the buildings are all blended into the redwood forest.

They build around the trees and all this stuff.

It is spectacular.

You take all of those types of students, much less the people who are coming here, you put the whole student body around the country and it's not even a flick.

It's not even a flick.

All over the country, the type of students.

Not that much, I don't think.

Less than 1% of all the students.

But I mean, even the crowd that comes to Washington, what a small portion.

And even of this group, I wouldn't float and bat around there in the last few years to see what they look like.

A lot of these kids that came here are the same motivation that I went to an NCAA tournament in New York for, and a lot of people would go just for kicks for fun, or down to Balboa.

before the Easter weekend.

Now, I mean, let's face it.

I went down there with some college friends and sat at a beach house and had fun, drank beer and went swimming and went surfing and so forth.

But there was a massive migration from USC down there.

No one's thought about politics or about things that are going on.

So the cluster of youth

here in April, whatever it is.

A lot of them, they're sitting around with the counties, hey, let's go to Washington.

Is it, you know?

That's why I think it's about the meeting and then she posts it.

I think that it's too oriented toward issues.

I think it's true.

Some, given the feeling that it is a piece, you know, and this and that, that they do care about it because they want to think that.

But remember that mainly,

They want to just be in the action.

Just give them some god damn.

Don't you think so, Bob?

Or when they're off to this action, they want to be given part of the call.

Except there are a lot of them, especially the good ones, who really are interested in every type of thing.

They're interested in business or politics or ministry or something.

Whatever the hell it is.

Maybe our stuff is just too cumbersome and heavy to be reckoned with.

I was amazed by the same side of us.

I've got a question, you know, that I've been sharing.

He thinks we're wrong a couple of things.

He was proud of me.

He knows more about it than I do.

I think he's probably right that we are right on the paper, Senator.

Good.

But I talked to my standard dog last night, too.

I said, we have Bernie on there.

That's how the riots are coming.

She said, they're back for spring quarter.

They've been on their vacation.

Oh, everybody's back to work.

I said, why aren't they all going to come to Washington?

March on the White House next week.

She said, I don't think anybody's coming.

Even the radicals aren't talking about going in.

I just don't see where it's going to gin up, because... Come off you.

Yeah.

Well, I was going to talk to Peter Smart, but I know it's happening in Harvard.

It's a lovely day to walk, but it isn't the right thing to do.

I don't think...

If you want to look for a walk table, I've got a good little locator.

Frankly, I'll walk around here and I'll just do it with David.

We used a small car, too, I think.

You used a... You don't need to be a black machine.

All right, I'm out of here.