Conversation 479-002

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Oh, you're back from here.

Good morning.

How are you doing?

Good morning.

How are you doing?

Good morning.

Well, we'll have to listen to those.

You don't have any rules since you were there.

You don't allow speeches.

You get 15 minutes and you have to be there a heck of a long time to get that, you see.

And in the late night, you know, you can come in and talk longer.

It's a good chance.

They'll know that they're coming in early, and they get all that.

And they get the press.

Well, the point is that they're going to make any press they have to do it at that hour.

And it's not fair to have some guy go in there and take all the time.

And then when somebody else has got something to say, and also the 15-minute rule, anything that's worth saying.

Most everything.

Well, uh, I thought it would be very useful to, for us to have a little bit of a feel from you on it.

Many of our, uh, managers, before you're in the meeting, I know you've got a lot of problems on the same person, and I'm very grateful that you're supporting us in some matters in the end, like the other.

I think we're in a position where we saw the bottom talk.

I think we'll carry on.

I think we're in a position to delay.

This is the, I mean, that they're, we can argue, people can legitimately argue about this and that item or the amount or the program or so forth.

But there is a Senate, you know, which is a very unknown involvement, but I think the military is bad, you know, so cut unilaterally, etc.

And we should speak to the media with this CBS program and some kind of comment.

Now, however...

So I'm trying to get your feel about it and your advice as to how we can help, how the task department has the major responsibility.

The draft is the extension of the...

Yes, it's our husband's.

What is the timing of the war?

Senator Costanza has scheduled a day of a manpower hearing tomorrow, and I think you can plan to move Senator very quickly in the committee on the draft extension of the military campaign.

Please do.

except for the manpower and and one or two other items we finished the hearings on that we've had very good around the table discussions

I don't think it will take very long.

We have these open 8 p.m. here.

There's two coming up next week.

It's going to take time.

You know, we're going to open this together tomorrow evening.

I think we can get it marked up, say, 10 days.

Next Monday or something like that, we'll get it right on the floor.

But we did what?

We did the bills.

Oh, we're going to put it all together anyway.

We're going to put it all together.

That's the extension of the draft.

The money.

And then this manpower.

This is the first time this year we've got any investments.

I don't know when I said it, but last time I said it, it was a few months ago.

It was a part of it.

But we've changed it over the years.

We've got this C-5A now.

Oh, that's good.

Oh yeah, another stock-invested packet for the buildings.

Oh yeah.

Do you want to know about combining military construction and our service at ADM?

Yes, as before, we're going to take the military construction part out of the military construction building and move along to the hardware of ADM so it won't be too late.

Same thing.

I'd rather go in by the same boat as A.B.

Evans.

Your good point, Dean, but under that new Senate rule, if I don't get up on your seat, then I'll lose your place.

I want to mention two points.

I thank the clients.

We're all just here as a family.

I thank the clients.

It's bad, and it's worse without anybody being to blame.

You can have it yourself.

It's plenty.

Anyone can do it.

Well, it's, uh, they have a gun and they want to do, kind of, a step in reducing the damage on the ceiling.

I said, put a ceiling on the procurement building.

I was fighting, that's what I do, you see.

On the big weapons, which is attacked APM, too.

I said, yeah, thanks, I want to put a ceiling and, uh,

That's hard.

They may have a vote on that, wouldn't they?

Of course, then you go to Congress and you have another change.

But what does that mean for the vote?

That means procurement.

But I tell you now, we're just here in the family.

I think we ought to make some decisions before we vote.

I think if you could weld the committee down, and we are honing this thing, we will make strong manpower reductions in military after a number of men in uniform.

I know if you make a good argument on the floor that this is the way to reduce the budget, that it takes 60%.

You know what, if you're going to tear down what's going to be down,

Another point, if the story's out, if there was some extra money to put in there, the relative wouldn't bring it to me.

So, hey, maybe there's something to it.

Now, if there is, it's not necessary, I think, to do it.

It's taking all of it or some of it out to start with.

It's all hard work, research and development.

It doesn't go to the operation to make money, you see.

You know what that is?

Buying the gold and freight down from transportation.

I mean, we can make some bullshit reductions there.

42, it won't have to be so great.

You know, we haven't had a chance to talk since we got back here with this son of a gun.

I don't think we never made any trouble with the draft bill.

I don't favor the draft bill.

I don't want to fight the bill.

It's not true.

I think we ought to do the best we can.

There's so much that we want.

For that, there's a lot of faith, too.

There's a big reason we can't stand investing in that.

And, uh... You think you can hold two?

Why, I think so.

I think, Mr. Chairman, I think two is very important to us.

It'll give us a better chance of getting... Oh, you got it.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't think that.

I said I'd have chosen one of you.

I had chosen one of your group, but... What about the vision, uh, what about the office that is in the House?

Well, now, my impression is I'd rather just take your figure that you left in the bill.

Well, you're going to get your change into volunteer army.

And I wouldn't support it for that reason, but since you won't get it, I'm not going to hand it to you.

That's a little goldwater, John.

You got that right.

I'm sorry, because then was a one-year amendment.

Yeah.

Who is?

Oh, we just got after that two years as a minimum and so forth.

I won't say that.

I won't believe it.

I think we'll have to do it at the end of two years.

But we'll hope for it.

Well, that's all we can ask for the understanding.

Well, that might make it easy to pass it with two, you know.

Some of us think, well, sure, we've got to pay for the board.

But this is a drop back.

I think that'll get it supposed to pass.

Are you suggesting a committee that there's some coming?

Well, I hope so.

I'm talking about a school committee.

I have to take this up with the committee.

What's your opinion on that?

I don't know what we're going to do.

It might be necessary.

It would be very desirable for us to perhaps have a little informal talk about it.

It's not ideal.

That's what I think.

We're all looking for the same goal.

We have a plan.

We know what trips we've got.

I think we recognize the problem.

We've lost our house in San Antonio.

I think that's the realistic approach.

Yeah, we should have.

Well, I won't be able to say to the membership, Mark, that I do.

On the floor now, we've been through this.

We've combed it fine.

Yes, of course.

And this is what we think is the bottom.

Does that sound right to you?

Yeah, unless they're going to cut so much on the floor anyway from Proctor's talk, will they cut in addition?

I think the strategy is good, the cutting committee, but I don't want to use the floor on the chairman's table.

Well, I think that this folks that we can get in there, they'll stand with it.

They feel like, I mean, it made a real out to cut where they thought it was standing.

I don't know if this procurement bill would stand much money cut.

I say, well, if you reduce this amount of total $9,000, that would lead to

He's waiting for some production.

What's the matter with our famous beauty in the conference?

I don't know.

Frankly, I think that she's going to produce it.

I don't know.

Well, as a lawyer, the old bargaining thing that you may have to start, you have the feeling when the committee comes in with a hard rock bottom figure, you have more of a chance to hold that.

They can come in with a higher figure and negotiate now.

Now, overall, they won't have tax.

They divide whether the tax is well.

Well, they have this overall cut, but I feel as though this time they wind up with an overall cut in the ceiling.

And that, if a necessary reduction in the meantime, I'm very much afraid of that vote.

Well, if the committee can make some deductions and say that we would define two columns of this, we think it's submental.

I think some solidarity would form around that.

I just think it has in the past.

And I guess that was something.

Well, let's fill the road until we last.

Well, we feel like you folks really did your best on this period.

Well, that's just what I'm thinking as of right now.

All right.

You'll talk to him.

Yes, I will.

Yeah.

Well, that's just it.

I'm telling you, you know, I've got to fight against him.

Well, at least we want to fight against him.

We are not even talking about that.

I, uh, a weapon, man, I say we just invent some weapon, man, that we could put off and cure us of.

You can't get it.

I will definitely forget it.

I will forget it.

We're not going to kill us.

We can get in next year at an appropriate time.

I'm convinced we need another carrier.

I'm hoping we don't fall through.

You know I'm hoping.

Yes, sir.

But I think if you will be my anointed this year, this is one of the reasons I held it out.

I think it's not going to make me very happy, but I believe we're going to be wise not to.

And that's going to be a big part of what we're doing right now.

Well, can you get any of that?

Well, the way it's before us now is that they're not asking for it directly.

They're talking about some other ships and reprogram later for the carry of that.

Well, I think it doesn't have to be.

We have any of those?

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

I think we have a very big fight.

I think we're mixed up in the committee.

I think we're going to have to... Mr. Chairman has something that I don't have.

Anything's with that committee.

I'm sorry, Mr. President.

We have difficulty with the services, you know.

There's honesty to fight over there.

You can get to some of them.

I'm not a striker.

I'm not a striker when the year fails.

It does go on, of course.

But I think terror has changed, so the town doesn't deny ourselves that that's not all.

That's right.

You mean it's all we have is a two-year trip?

Well, that's how I see it at the moment.

I think that we can change some of them.

for the two year, thank you, let us know.

Let us know which ones that you, I think you got a tower at Thurman, that's for sure.

It's very good.

Yes, I understand so, and I'm Dominic's opponent.

My name is Ed.

And I was saying Goldwater before you finished.

He's awesome.

I mean, they're all going in different directions.

Good night.

Anyway, I want you to talk to either one of them.

I don't want to talk to one of those two people.

Yes, I think so.

That would help.

That would help that much.

Yeah, definitely.

If they really want anything, all they'll say is for a directive.

See what happens.

Yes, ma'am.

target, sole target.

It's going to take a lot of effort to align.

I'm going to talk to every senator and all the committees that I think are having the influence with.

Certainly with Vincent Walker, you know I've already got a lift on him.

I'm going to let you know what I think is in the way of Trump, because he's going to be in the votes.

On this, this electric service, I'm going for it.

Well, I think we could have walked up about 10 feet, you know, 10 feet.

And then, you know, come on to the floor, and as soon as he can get up,

Now, we almost have to get it out of the way, so I'll come in and drop back on this, but you'll need to sit him under that kind of a floor.

Well, I, uh, I don't know if I can come and say, do you love me?

Do you know someone?

Shall I walk in there?

Do you want to wait for that?

Not until I want it.

Well, maybe not until next week in June.

It's going to take some time.

Time is important.

You know what to do.

Time is important.

You've got no time at all.

I'd rather leave that open now and try to get it disposed of before the August recess.

Oh yeah, that's already green on.

When is that?

Well, it's about two o'clock.

From August 7th, the day after Labor Day, Mr. President.

So it is nine o'clock.

That's good.

Mr. President, I think much of this depends on the chairman's goodness.

He's in a solid position, I think.

I think you can make some of that production.

As a matter of fact, I have to think...

I don't think they're going to want to take you on.

Some of you will call me and say, you're the man, of course, you're the key man.

You know what it would be for us, and the question about that is, if we had to fight with you, is that the end of all we can do?

We will.

Don't worry about it.

Oh, I don't know what we have on our chairs, too.

You know, I'll enter some of your songs.

I don't know some of those songs.

Well, Madison from Texas, I think he's going to go right down the line.

All right.

And Hughes is not going to go.

Although I agree, Hughes will try to give us trouble.

I might have a little influence on that scale.

Not for his vote, but for... And he is an honest, too.

What I call an honest, too.

But if I can just pull him down a little...

Now, Saxby is, you know, that's our problem.

Well, he's a good member of the committee, but he can give you trouble on the floor if he says not to do it on the floor.

That's right.

We'll work on that.

If you can get him to be positive before he votes, he's quite an agent.

He's a good lawyer.

If you can get to him early enough.

He's a good lawyer.

Yeah, good scrap paper man.

Yeah, yeah, right.

We're working on it.

Well, you know, we know this is a hard battle, but, you know, right now, let me put it in a broader context.

You probably know the Soviet Union has just been defeated.

Its leadership was not significant to the unsophisticated.

It's been very significant to others.

What it really means now is that what we've all believed and fresh met now is

It is very important at this time, and also having in mind his relative and conciliatory speech, which will hold for that time, that this all talks going on and all that sort of thing, that our position with regard to the military held firm for the next three months.

For the streets and that, if you get, for example, the new leadership, which is fresh now, gets the view that they can get everything they want without bargaining for it, then we're going to have to get them in.

Now, you know what's happening on the numbers, John.

You know the numbers of their offensive missiles and so forth, what's going on in their summer and so forth.

We've got some good bargaining position now.

As a matter of fact, that's why we put the extra in that.

That was not so much a signal here, but a signal there.

That 76 number is important.

So if we...

I'm not suggesting we can't make changes now, work it out, whatever.

But I'm only saying...

that remember that in the context of trying to get not just our own budget in mind, but giving us the bargaining to soak it, we must give away now and see if we can.

That's what we're doing.

Well, as we've talked about more than that, it's more than that.

They hold a whole, clear whole attitude.

What we've got is the Chinese thing is breaking down.

There's so many things going on over there.

It's trying to be very firm.

Well, as you understand, what I'm asking you to do is...

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you speak.

Oh, well, good night.

Don't you know I don't want to go there?

Who are you?

What's your name?

We're going to be working on a daily basis with you and your staff.

I would like to sit down and talk.

I don't would like to have anything negative in the way of a vote indicating that the Senate is weak.

in the next three months.

Now that's why that manpower thing comes up first.

Because if you could hold the line, I mean, just give us probably these two years, right?

That we want to have.

Yes, sir.

Do we have anything else we need?

We'd like to get that money back, but that doesn't depend on what you're talking about.

You mean the billion dollars?

No, it's not the two.

The billion we got, but it's our payers.

I don't think so, no.

There's one other thing that we'd like to add that's important with regard to the all-mountain track course, and that is the proficiency and the bonus.

I don't think that was in our bill.

The House knocked it out, so we need to get it back in again.

I think the trying to get it through some reprogramming, and that's not too fun.

But the main thing, Margaret, if you could hold the drive for two years, that would be a very, very important thing.

If, for example, if that were dropped out at this time, the game we're playing with the Soviet and others would be much easier to carry.

When you come to the procurement thing, and there, as I said, we know the difference.

And there is, we just don't want the game given away.

I mean, I'm glad that vote is not in July.

That's fine.

It just comes in July.

We want to fight that.

Well, we may have to fight it, or we may not.

But we'll let you know.

We'll keep you...

As you well know, there are some people, members of our, we can't talk, but I want you to know, I want you to know that in this case, I will, I'll have, we will keep you posted on any of the bumps this whole negotiating front in the next three months.

Because it's very, this whole change in Soviet leadership is far more significant than

Now, if the Senate can

and the Congress can't just simply stay steady at this point.

Unless the flag about to negotiate back, but if the Congress just goes off on some wild, you know, cutting spree, huh?

Wouldn't it be a wild land to do something to delay the Christopher Kennedy bill coming to the floor until...

late enough to get it out before August 6th, say July.

My own view is the more you can delay the procurement bill, the better.

Margaret, if you could do that for us, that would be the best thing that could happen.

We're going to bother you with delaying it.

Let me tell you what, if we can delay it, let me put it this way, I just don't want to be able to sign a procurement bill if we can through the summer.

Now, you'll know the reason within two, three months.

But we'll let, and after that, there may be, we may tell you that we don't care much sooner than that.

But we'll let you know, but on all the incompetence.

Now, we're not gonna, we can't do it, but I'm not gonna discuss this in the leadership in there.

The other thing is that, if you would be, if you could play that game, in other words, on the procurement bill, remember, cut our legs off from under us.

Well, you won't anyway.

It isn't until July.

That's encouraging.

But August would be better.

Well, we won't be in August.

We'll go out to the States.

September would be great.

That would be fine.

We might want to be a little flexible about that.

Yeah.

Well, September would be great, except to say that we may come to you within 60 days and say...

I think July is good.

September might be better.

Don't let it come up for July.

That's what we need.

I think I can do that because I can have some personal reason, perhaps, to ask Stenson.

Here's the point.

Let me say it.

We do not want an 8 p.m. vote.

You know all the reasons why.

You can guess.

That's fine.

Now, it may be that by the end of July, we won't want it to September, but you know what I mean, though.

That's about as much as I don't want to be doing.

Now, all I'm in for, and the reason that is important, is that with our Vietnam White House,

What else did you say about the anonymous son?

He did a good job, I must say.

Well, no necessary talk going on.

It's probably something else.

Yes, my mail has gone completely.

I don't have that mail.

I think it all came up because of your speech tomorrow.

Are you?

Yes.

I appreciate that.

That would be very helpful.

I'm doing more research on it because I'd like to make a major change.

Let me put this case in context.

There's no question about his guilt in my opinion.

Second, uh, there's no question about the fact that we have a different standard in these terms of officials than our agents, and the real problem, say, well, the G was that you just killed a bunch of communists, uh, the Serbs.

And, uh, with the, uh, speaking as a lawyer, any rapist or murderer in the District of Coahuila is let out on bail or enrolled in the streets.

Now, Cali, and they're allowed, they don't think they're gonna get the judge who considers that they can put up a bail if he considers you're not dangerous.

And then they go out and rape and murder again.

And that's true in half the states of this country.

And that's why sending Kelly to Leavenworth, the coolest field there for two weeks of a review, and years of a review process, doesn't make any sense.

He should go back to his courts.

He's not dangerous.

That's why we did that.

Simply as a matter of giving in.

in the military, exercising exactly what a judge could exercise in the underground.

That's why I did that.

With regard to the review of the case, I have that responsibility anyway.

In other words, if somebody appeals the case, anybody, the commander-in-chief is the final reviewing officer.

If he wants to exercise it,

So what I was doing there was simply first saying the fact that while an individual was wicking the final determination in this case, he should be confined.

In other words, he's being let out and he's still confined to court, but he's not going to be allowed to work.

Second, as far as the case is concerned, because a lot of people were concerned about it, that I, myself, would personally review it at the end.

Now that does not reflect on the court.

I think the court, because there are a lot of dedicated officers, are just reflecting the prosecutor.

As a matter of fact, rather than being derogation of the military system of justice, it supports it, because I decline

The advice of Matthew was to set up a presidential commission, take it away from the military courts.

That's what he's trying to do.

I said, let the justice run its course, and then I'll reveal it.

So that's the case.

I think this is what counters you for.

I think the fact that you was commanding to you to do this, give them everything, go through the whole judicial process.

I didn't approve of the committee getting in on this at all.

I was all offended.

Well, you know, we had people with the suggestions, Margaret, of setting up a warrant commission.

Good God, wouldn't that have been awful?

Look what that would have done.

We could have tried a warrant commission on Cali.

You know there were over a hundred other cases, but to be that as it may, look what it would have done to military justice.

After all, these six guys sat there for months, looking at the case and so forth, and they recognized, let it go through the judicial process.

So, we were really, I think, doing the right thing.

And it is improving the country.

On the other thing, as I say, you could help us on that.

You're right, we're on the same page.

You see what our problem is.

On the manpower thing, we really need that two years.

We've just got to have that.

I told the chairman this morning, I gather he is going to push back.

And he hasn't been doing that.

He first got it out.

Well, it's obvious that he's a little bit of a gunshot as well.

He's getting a lot of heat.

But it's hard.

It's hard for him.

But on this one, Margaret, you know this, that if you and Samus come up together on this thing, I think you've got a good chance to go through.

What do you think?

Well, you know, you can fall in line on this, too, here.

The issue is this.

We have at least a fighting chance of getting the draft down somewhere near zero.

We have a two-year extension.

We have only a one-year extension.

There's so much that our volunteers have drafted, we just have no chance.

So anyone that really wants to get the draft down, and that's what we're trying to do,

It takes two years to do it.

In other words, if you get two, two, we all know people have a district volunteer service, but in Hampton, we'd like to have more volunteers than less, right?

Now, in two years, we've got a chance to do it.

That's why Goldwater and Hampton, well, before...

Absolutely can.

It's the transition.

But you don't get headlines, do you?

No, I don't.

That's a nasty statement, but this is what's going on.

It happens.

It's true.

We have too many candidates.

Yeah.

Or candidates or articles.

Yes, that's right.

And headlines.

I think perhaps that it has something on a four-year.

I would rather see it four years and probably would go with it.

That gives him an argument when he comes down to two years.

But I don't think he could get there.

Well, you all, you know your strategy.

You go for it on the two, but get us two.

Did you do that, didn't you?

Well, I don't know.

Do your best.

I don't know.

It's a...

The Armed Services Committee is a good committee, but it isn't together from Simington down on that side.

Wow.

From Saxby up on our side.

It's...

Thank you very much.

Oh, hey, I've got something to tell you, sir.

Thanks, sir.

Go on.

I've got something to talk to you about.

Thanks, sir.

You haven't seen it either.

Go ahead.