Conversation 479-003

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We've got to make a decision.

We're starting to talk now about, uh, the goodie packages to put together and, you know, the sellout stuff and all that kind of thing.

It's important.

Old contracts, judgeships, and all the, all the, you know, bullshit.

Clips wrote a quote, you know, that said, we're both a great man, and I'm not a goddamn man.

See, they're operating.

I think we've got to keep the stamp operating on the assumption that the, that the ATM is essential.

We're going to operate on it.

We're going to do it.

But the trades don't have to be made at this point.

We can make a vote.

There's not until 1st of July.

That's the way that the argument should be.

They can argue about it, but no trades should start until 1st of July.

Yeah, yeah, just to get that out.

And start arguing, too, that you should start seeing senators.

No, no.

And again, we can go on the basis of... What they don't know is that the Senate has no understanding of anything.

See, they're operating on it.

I'm not going to start.

I'm not going to see senators on the ABN.

I'm not going to see them any time.

Their argument is the types that we've got to look at.

You look at all the changes in the Senate.

We've lost six senators who never deviated on the ABN.

I know we do.

And they've been replaced in some cases by people who are not sure of it.

Of course, we've seen three senators who were always against the ABN.

Yeah.

Go on, Larry.

Now, Boston thought, well, I don't know.

And Smith was with us on the APM.

We gained three who have always enhanced us on the APM.

Who did we gain?

We gained Brock and Smith.

Oh, you mean we gained three who will now be working together.

I'm not sure.

We had three who were always together.

I held a hold.

Let me say this.

My character on the APM is, and I told Henry this morning, he probably knew this.

On the other hand, we're playing another game.

Now, I don't want any people in the staff to cool them off.

They should argue like hell for the ADM.

I'm not going to see anybody in the ADM until the 1st of July.

15th of June at the very earliest.

Is that clear?

No, absolutely not.

and just tell them.

But Laird is, by God, he sees it.

And that's what we should be.

We've got to be put to the captain.

I've worked a few things.

And that's exactly where I bring these sax piece and the others down here and hold their hands again.

I'm not going to do that.

And because, you know, McGregor and Timmons, McGregor may get that feeling about how the president can come in.

I couldn't say it before.

And, you know, let's face it.

I stand there and say, let me make the point to them so that they don't start dreaming about it, that there will not be presidential involvement until we get down to the pre-vote period.

That's right.

Two weeks before, I will start to think I'm going to do all the groundwork and we're not going to make any sales, don't make any commitments, don't do anything.

We're going to need him just to stand firm on it.

Put it on the basis of that necessary because of our SALT negotiations.

It's the key card and so forth.

Get Rogers to make a statement.

He should make a statement, a very strong statement, regarding the subsequent having ABM because of our self-immigration.

Everybody argues that.

Go to school.

This idea that they're going to haul him down here and make him talk to him is ridiculous.

And the other thing is to make sure we don't make any deals.

Well, Bob, it's worth it.

I mean, you did it all.

That's the point.

Unfortunately, we just don't know.

I think it's a shock.

We've got a shot at it now.

And if we don't have to make a deal, let's not give us a doubt.

That's the point.

I'm glad they're thinking about it.

I'd like to see why they were of our concern, but I was surprised.

Bo couldn't possibly come to the 1st of July.

Couldn't possibly come.

Someone get it committed before then.

But just don't get the President involved in things before he has to be.

The other thing we should play for is for the new types, Gambrell and Childs, most people at least don't commit against.

Get them right to me.

I want Laird to get them over Gambrell.

Kister should get them in.

Kister can do that on ABM.

I think he's the, he'd go on the whole field.

And I'd like for him to get Gambrell in.

I'd like for him to get that whole Florida and Childs, to get Childs and Benson in.

Also, I think he should get my credit against somebody that voted against us before.

Martin's not going to lead the fight against him, that's for sure.

There may be some chips, some of them may be because of the negotiation.

The problem is that the NERVO thing has gone, apparently.

It's going to be, you know, NERVO, NERVO.

To build a NERVO.

Yeah.

they don't want to know i guess not i don't know that that appears to be a new factor in the argument that weakens our position what's that going to do with apm i don't know i don't know i came up with the discussion

I don't see the reason for discussing it when you're right.

It's cooled down.

And we've got to do it without them.

Without them, you know what I tell them?

We don't care about the time.

I'm worried about Henry saying, you know, you've got to hold the line for three weeks or something like that.

What I told him this morning, I said, we've got to hold it till August.

You know, I told her, I said, we didn't want to hold till August.

I didn't say any blackout this morning.

Now that, no.

And that works fine with our people because their argument on the merits of it is that the more time we have, the better it will be that we need time to argue our case so we can vote.

There's another reason.

Without telling anyone any decisions, there's another reason that you may get a brave vote.

The time is in our favor and we play four times.

And play hard to the arguments with no deals and no presidential involvement.

I don't have a dyslexic idea.

Well, the appropriations bill is at the Senate, it must have passed.

I'm going to follow up on a couple of things, if you would.

Mr. Brown had a long and discouraging conversation with Lincoln.

Has anybody talked to Carr?

Yes, I have.

Does he think we're doing enough?

He was very pleased.

He said so yesterday.

All right.

Just be sure that they do everything.

On this, I want...

You know we're doing something about this.

I wanted to get out.

And I think we've got to get somebody down there or something.

I don't want to handle it in a routine, orderly way.

Demagogic.

Okay.

And Connolly is very much involved in it.

He raises capital.

You know, there was an ETA and all that sort of thing.

So let me put a ban on your staff on the goddamn thing to follow up Lincoln.

From a political standpoint.

Political standpoint.

I just want to be sure that somebody in Lincoln's office is thinking very politically about this.

Very, very politically.

And we're trying to, you know, ensure the people of Texas of our interests.

And I want a presidential statement every goddamn day, if necessary, you see.

Presidential statement.

I want Hartman to get his ass down there.

He ought to fly down there.

Put the thing over and tell Hartman, call Hartman, tell him, I think it's terribly important to show a presidential address.

Yesterday, he had talked to Hartman.

He had Hartman, but Hartman called him and told him that it was a very good idea.

He said he'd talk to people on that interview.

What do you have that's supposed to follow in the beginning of our world of comics every now and then?

Probe.

What type of probe?

I don't care about doing it, you understand.

I just want to be sure we get something out about it, about it at least.

Yeah, there was a conscious decision.

Not to do it?

No, to lay off on something that we were pushing.

Well, drugs go back on its own.

Well, then we say, I want this not left to the justice side.

Justice ought to do more, but the justice brother primarily just worked on his personality and not on getting the chronic fire thing out.

And then someone, a primary vigil, you can only push so far out of time.

Yeah, I know.

Moore didn't get as much density.

Now that Moore is here, he's going to want it.

Yeah, again.

I think that's one plus that we might, you know, we want to think of a little few pluses on the movie, on the war.

I mean, let's try to run a few raids and so forth.

That would seem to be a pretty good movie.

Some of the people in the future.

Yeah, the best you can do.

It's called retention.

Sorry.

Chairman of the Fed would like to see you today or talk to you on the phone.

He departs tomorrow for Paris and Switzerland.

I'd recommend that you see him, but that either shelter him in or prepare him to be present.

He's not going to have to be present.

It's no use to see him with somebody present to be heard, frankly.

I know that.

I mean, I just throw up in the sitting when they're reading, but I cannot that he gets used to it.

It can't be Shultz, and it can't be McCracken.

He's got to piss off on them.

Because they're members of this quadriad and all that, but Erdogan's not.

That's wrong.

You love the dirty.

See, I'm talking about the dirty part.

There is a carousel in our hallway.

That's my folks' section.

Public and Governors' Conference.

question of whether we do it or not.

Well, Mitchell feels you have to.

Ehrlichman was basically opposed to it, but it swung around on the basis of make revenue sharing.

No, welfare reform.

Revenue sharing, we've already, we've done that with the governors.

But welfare reform, you've got Reagan and Rockefeller sort of jumping on the issue of this one that you could get back on top of.

And then, as I understand this, you will be taking the hard lines still, you know, and I ask you to be sure to include in our next poll as to whether they favor having people in the welfare roles.

And don't vote it too much, because I always want to see whether we are on a track there.

It is impossible not really to do that.

But it is close that in terms of children, get it very precisely, have the question framed by Richardson.

I need somebody that's very honest and honorable and hear what the people think.

The money isn't, the welfare isn't, the domestic savings isn't, no one else.

Everybody's sick of the goddamn welfare.

Well, that's what he kind of thought.

He ought to get this to the Republican.

John thought it was a good idea.

We can make a hard, hard-line welfare reform.

I will do it.

I'm not going to go down there and piss around about the ways of every bad thing.

We've got to be generous to the people that are working for it.

I cannot, I just cannot do that.

I just want to get that agreed with.

Next Tuesday is the logical day to go.

Starting, they gather Sunday, but there's no, you know, we've talked about maybe going Sunday night, but there's no session Sunday night.

I'm sure you can do it.

Well, we've got the D.A.R.

The D.A.R.

is Monday night, but you can do this Monday late in the morning, you know.

The D.A.R.

should be 10 minutes.

You know, just readings is all that is.

They know that's readings, don't they?

Yes.

And that's how it's built, is readings.

Yes.

Walking in the hall, they said, I know something there, that I've gone.

That's right.

For others, you know, we're no longer who we want to be.

And you do a great thing for them if you walk in the hall and turn, and the gals are there.

The president came to our meeting, said that we were nice people.

He said they have a band at that time, because of the help of the chief and all that.

Oh, yeah, it's a big deal for them.

The Marine band must be there.

They can folder us on the whole goddamn works.

Because, you know, they do it with great...

orchestration and all that sort of thing.

Pat's on Pat's calendar and she's doing a D.A.R.

tour in D.A.

apparently that afternoon.

It's a Christian company, Pat.

Yeah.

That's the reason I'm here.

I'd rather do the women.

I'd rather do the men.

I'd rather get that over with than be prepared to have Tuesday afternoon.

Yeah, that's what we'll do.

We'll handle it.

See you morning.

See you.

The office press conference, Peter Shreve, Clawson.

And, uh, let's see.

That's what I'm hoping.

I always want to know anything.

That way we can see.

I gotta see the leaders next week, too.

I can't miss them this week.

So, get the damn thing ready.

I mean, uh, give me a brief statement on whether or not I'm at a deadline if you do that.

Okay.

I promise to be sure we've got it.

Well, I guess we will.

The devil will be there and all the other people will be there.

Paul, Paul, Paul.

The Republican governor is saying it's a political gap.

It's supposed to open on the point where we can change that and have you do this.

See what the old team can do.

That's what I'm going to say.

On the worship service, who's going to be invited to this worship service?

How about having a few editors?

I don't, the list is already, whatever you have, don't worry about it.

I'm hoping for it.

No, that's why I just, well, thanks.

But still, don't hope, but don't spend any more time on it.

I spent the time on it.

I just played for her, and she does what her conscience tells her she's right.

Thank you for your speech on defending us on college.

Yeah, which is good.

You know, you get her on that.

We're back at a...

I still find the question of going to that Marine thing, waiting to see, and we don't know what the Moroccans are up to.

We'll know a little later today at their home.

And if that's canceled, it might be worth then going out.

The 1st Marine Air Wing is not part of the 1st Marine Division.

Oh, that's interesting.

Alright, so you're out Wednesday night, you'll be out there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, well, come back here, come back Monday, change the chamber of commerce on Tuesday, correct?

If Hassan comes to Morocco and says no, if he does, I can't think he's going to say no.

They seem to think that the Prime Minister is coming to take, you know, have a private meeting and that's it, and off King will come or something.

I don't know.

Great.

But if they don't do that, the 30th is still a possibility.

Well, I have a feeling that there's some idea.

I suppose that we've just called to put off the ceremony.

But we've checked that.

That can be done.

It can.

We ought to do it quickly, though, because they're getting worried about how people are coming in and all that sort of thing.

You know, it's a big thing, so they've got invitations and all the plans.

Listen, it's just, it's hard for me to just give you this fast rush.

I don't know if we have all this time.

Maybe we don't have all this time.

Excuse me.

I'm at 12.

Okay.

My, my baby is an 11th person.

We don't know what the others are.

Maybe he's good to watch out for then.

and we've got a lot of Atlantic deals for what it's worth, and I'm trying to get some other feeling on it, that it's unwise for you to be in California for the coming four years.

That's right.

It makes you look like you ran.

He has no question about going to Camp David.

Okay.

That's right.

That's what I was saying.

He is starting to know.

He should stay in the White House if he can watch it.

But he is questioning whether you really want to

be together i'm not so sure that he's right but there is a there's it's up to how i expect but that's his one there's something big happens here and i have a job and something might happen next weekend too whatever happens after the 24th it won't happen probably from the 3rd to the 5th of may well then suppose we we did this

They were here for the first time.

I had filled myself up with the best plan.

Just because we got on there.

It's not until the press conference out of the way in the 28th.

They had the ceremony on the 29th.

It would be first thing in the morning, right out on the 29th.

They had the ceremony at 11 or something, that's right.

And I'll be there.

I mean, to stay there and have a friend with you and maybe a friend for a day and just be flying back in the day and get there in time for the last.

I mean, just sort of think in those terms rather than rushing out there.

Probably, you know, having to switch the chamber around and so on and so on.

I mean, more I think about it.

I think more as you about the better anyway.

And I think welcome home, boys.

Come on.

What's your view?

Have you got a strong reaction against it?

No.

Not too many.

Are there strong for it?

Anybody strong for it?

Yes.

Scali's whole pitch, his view is make you a man of peace.

That's what he's looking at.

He sees this as building the peace.

At any given time, 3031.

Well, there's an advantage to that.

It's a week later from the time you were last in California.

It's four weeks from the time you came back.

Five weeks from the time you went out.

Well, let's decide now.

We will not do it this week.

Let's decide now.

I think we can do it the next week.

See if they can put a slate on it for 2029.

It's beyond California.

Take the weekend off.

I don't think for the first and second.

Stay out there and have a modest week.

Third, fourth, fifth.

Fifth.

Sixth.

Be there actually a week.

I have Thursday and Friday here, which is basically a full day here.

I'll leave this time.

Turn around.

Yep.

But then you go to floor level 15 for the, yeah.

That's the value of this word itself.

I guess you have to have them.

The question is, would it be all right not to have any of the White House staff?

Now, by that, that would mean you would have Rose, actually, and Tom Davis, because he's over there.

The question is, if you get into the White House staff, you immediately add 20.

So you go to assistance, and then you've got that time to get in a crack, and then...

I'm all we got for the rest, but what is your feeling?

Could that be done, or is it going to be, right now, a lot of China fighting us back, fighting that way?

My first reaction would be, absolutely no problem at all, but I think I better think about it, because I think maybe I'm wrong.

When you start a problem, here's what's going on.

For example, Rose, so that I could name, she's insisting on Bill Casey.

I want them all.

I said, of course we're not going to have Bill Casey.

I said, why?

I can't.

I'm not having Pete Burge.

Why do I have Bill Casey?

And he said...

We're having a hell of a time on that.

If you've got a problem, let me look at it for a minute.

I know it was a thing, and I wasn't ever going to raise it, but it relates to the wedding too, on the Irish evening at the White House, which is the announcement.

Hang on.

It impressed me a big thing with the fact that Irvin and I weren't there, the social writers.

I was delighted not to be there, but I find that John was very concerned, not because he wanted to be there, but because of this kind of story.

And he thinks that's a problem, and he may be right.

He already, I'd argue that it is, you know, that there's a... Could we limit it to you, John?

You could probably limit it to, uh, Josh, and not have Peterson, for example.

You'd have to have Henry.

Henry, then don't check if you have Peterson.

Henry, look, I say, they're not sure you have to have anybody.

No, I understand.

I think if you go down, then you have to have McCracken, don't you?

Separate office.

What about Wagner?

I would think if you did limit it to you, to John, to Henry, then you'd have to have Lange, don't you?

You'd have to have the assistance of the President.

What about Scali?

No.

I wouldn't have him.

No.

He'd be hurt.

Sir.

I mean, you've got to tell them.

I wouldn't have Colson.

I wouldn't have Scali.

No, no, no.

You would have to have Lange.

Yeah, because of other reasons.

Rod will be there anyway.

Rod will not be against them if you work with them.

Sure.

But you have a client because of an old friend of yours.

And I think you almost do.

I think it just, I think, for instance, I think you have to have a client, period.

Whether you have anybody else or they plan to.

Yes, but they're having clients for the same reason.

They have roads.

They've got a choice on that.

They have roads and they have a client.

Now, we're not going to have Buchanan.

We're not going to have Scali.

Shall we?

We shouldn't.

Because then you get to Garnet.

You don't get to others.

Now, I'm not going to have them.

Now, I'm not going to go, be sure I go to the Buchanan-Scarney wedding, whatever the hell that is.

That's what I was looking for.

Now, you cannot, Bob, if you break over there, you're in real trouble.

If you start breaking into that group, then what the hell are you going to do?

Because then why don't you have Christ?

The only way you can do it is insistence to the President and Klein.

We can work it out.

I'm delighted to accept it.

If you go to 20, it's pretty tough because you've got a limit of 300 people.

And if you go to 20 White House staffers, it's easy.

You have to have the wives, of course.

I think you can go to about six or eight.

Plus the ones that you talked about.

I don't see why not.

He's new.

He has to be in here.

He doesn't know the tendency.

That's the other people.

That's where you get into the problem.

It's the...

We want to have them if they, if they think we can.

We had the, uh... Well, see, I thought he was going to be the same thing as with Julie's wife, which was that I not come and that you can keep other people away.

Mr. President, I recommend that you pre-position people for national retirement.

Yeah.

No, no statements.

No statements, nothing at all, sir.

Only just a few points.

When you come in, if you position yourself right here on this side, and you judge them out, this is the...

See?

I can see it.

I don't know.

Beautiful.

What we'd like to do is .

I think we want to form a second row.

We have to get in front of the station.

.

What do you say Bill?

I'm sorry.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, as all of you are aware, we're here to declare the term of the FCC.

And we want to participate in declaring it.

Now, we're supposed to report it to the Office of the Future, but we've actually a very long period of time since we've done that.

So, it's pretty long, but we hope to run the case in the best way.

We sometimes fail to realize that regular police chiefs have, in many instances, more impact on businesses than sometimes other parts of the government.

Oh, good.

Please raise your right hand and repeat after me.

I, William J. Casey, I would like to say to you, we solemnly swear, we solemnly swear, that I will support and defend, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the United States.

That's all I need.

foreign without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion

that I will well and faithfully discharge, that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the author, the duties of the author, on which I am about to enter, on which I am about to enter.

So help me God.

Thank you.

So, congratulations.

Thank you, Mr. President.

and you're like my good friend and associate artist.

We're going to just speak the end of it and you can say what you want.

Mr. President, I'd like to thank you for inviting my friends and family to this occasion.

I'm very happy to be here today.

I'm more happy, like you say, to have a president who has a place in the House of Representatives, to accept the responsibility of the President and the Security and Security Committee.

I'm very unfortunate, but this is going to carry out the great purpose of the presidency, and I'm happy to help people.

The SEC has a long-standing position

It's working to the heart of the function of capitalism or economic system.

It has the task of

Providing the best policy.

Maintaining the best intelligence.

At the same time, piloting and manufacturing the great carbon machinery, which is so effective in mobilizing talent and resources for public purposes.

I can't use that quality, it's so important for our economic health and our competitive position in the world.

I'm D. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.

Oh, my God.

I'm sorry.

Oh, yes.

... ... ... ... ...

We will now descend down to the second floor.

... ... ... ...

Hey, Bill.

How are you?

I know.

Where are you going?

Hello, how are you?

Mr. O'Brien.

Oh, yeah.

Let's hope.

It's quite out of the woods.

That's a girl.

Good.

All right.

I'm safe.

It's a good body.

Here we go.

I'm sorry.

Father, for Christ's sake.

Now you can buy stocks without confidence.

That's right.

We're in our old building.

Just make money now, all right?

No, we bought three months ago.

Yes, well, how are you?

Good to see you.

I think you've got a good man in there.

We're going to work better with you.

I'm going to try it.

Oh, no.

You can afford it, Sam.

You're not.

We've got a lot of young guys around there, you know.

But there's no winning guess.

Only two years.

Never.

Well, where's that guy?

Well, we had all the things in common, and it was very hard to prepare for that.

Well, I heard what they said about him worrying.

He's all right.

He's okay with all that.

But apparently, he's not hurt at all.

Here, we call you by the name of Steve.

Hi, my name is Steve.

Uh-huh.

That's beautiful, right?

I don't just have to do this.

You're kind of being conditioned.

Take your time with this.

I was going to put the cord in there.

Why not do the agriculture dinner?

I guess we fly down to the floor the next morning.

Would that be your thought on that?

I'm sorry.

No, of course, if you get that agriculture dinner over with, why not go that night?

We could do it.

I think you could do a relatively early dinner and go on that and be there by midnight.

That's what I think you ought to do and wake up there.

and then do the dinner at the agriculture.

Good deal.

In California, there's entertainment, though.

But suppose you get a good pen.

Suppose you leave at 11.

So you get in one early dinner.

It's going to be outside.

The entertainment house is going to be outside.

My point is, Bob, suppose you leave at 11 o'clock.

Yeah.

So then at 1.

And I'd rather do that than to get up the next day and screw around.

Then we get two full days in Florida because the surrogate day will be working.

Let's just decide the California thing.

I think there are times when we just have to bump things up, build it out, and we get out of those sand dinners.

That's just the dividend.

There's just one more free now.

Yeah, you can use the Ascendant.

Great.

You're right.

Just forget about it.

Let's go to Cambridge.

Thursday.

Thursday, which is the better day.

See, that's what to do.

And you're more free.

Right.

That would be very good.

We'd be much better off if we could do that.

California.

You see, I don't think, though, that maybe we ought to think of the other press conference, though, at 29.

No, I think so.

For another reason, I understand now that the photographer's dinner has moved to the 28th.

I know that's not very important, but it is.

In a way, it is.

I need to talk to those guys.

So, in other words, do the press conference on the 29th.

29th, and then go in the morning to California.

Do it on the 30th.

Do the thing on the 30th.

Then I do not come back on the 5th.

I just come back on the 6th.

Yeah.

And have Friday here.

Yeah.

Don't go out there for less than a week.

I think you just saw it.

Don't you press it down.

Come back the 6th, get here that evening.

Yeah.

And then you have all day Friday.

All day Friday here.

And Saturday.

Saturday you can catch up.

You work here.

Friday.

You correspond to me that night.

And we'll do church that Sunday.

Yeah.

It's just Mother's Day today.

We'll give you something to do for Mother's Day today.

The Correspondence Center.

Find out what publishers or editors are here for that.

Let's have a few of those.

We've got to be in the church thing.

In other words, I try to use it mainly to do old friends and all that sort of thing, but we're not as good as we should really be.

We still, in terms of getting people in, we want to just get in the White House.

I like to serve in this, and I'm just going to be excited.

And the Marines should know I'm going to do it.

But we have to let them know, right?

I don't know, quickly say that I was asked to come to welcome back the 1st Marine Division.

My God, I don't believe it.

I feel better about doing that on the 30th rather than on the 24th or 23rd.

In the middle of that doesn't look as bad as, doesn't look, can't be twisted the way, I mean, right, right, good.

It's great.

We'll have to hunt today, because we're going to be announcing it any time.

And that's good.

I think we will do one of the hunts.

So it doesn't, it is reactable.

We'll do that and announce some other event in California at the same time.

You know, that we're, we'll have a week to count the Western White House.

I think it's good just for the, from the viewpoint of using the Western White House on a working basis.

I was just curious about this.

I think you're right, Ian.

I couldn't agree more, Alan.

To be here on vacations.

I always said this shit.

That's when the Congress is going to be out of town.

It's a miserable time to be here.

But by God, let's stay here.

We've got to be a good part of it.

Well, why not?

Why not be here?

Make a noose.

See?

I think you can take one week in August.

One of our 10-day shots in California.

But we might take it.

But let's not take it.

Let's take it at the time that I have Congress.

You know, it's pleasant to be in Washington, but Congress isn't here.

I'm sure it is.

You've got to imagine where it is.

And, you know, the stories of, oh, we ought to do a California week.

Like if you do the Bohemian Grove, do a California week that last week in July.

And somebody's praying for something else about, you know, what the hell is it that they're after?

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

Well, yes, it's a good talk to do about it.

It's not a bad thing.

It's got something to do with arts or sciences or stuff there all the time.

There's so many bad events.

But the Republican governors actually do.

Well, I think it's probably good to go down, but no full session.

I'm not going to have that full session.

No, that's why going in the morning is really better than going Sunday night.

Sunday is, go over there and do that, and not sit around and talk about a political situation.

Not Harry Dent, right?

Mitchell, Mitchell should get down there and talk to him.

Mitchell and, you know, our guys, Tom Evans and Bob Dole.

Yeah, not sit around and talk about it.

Gunners, get Casey.

But Christ's good is to do what follows like ghost and arrest and go through that same bunch of bullshit with them.

When we've got a guy like Casey that's our friend, we can tell him true.

We have not quieted our friends for nothing.

You agree?

But you think we've done pretty lousy jobs?

We have done as well as we can.

And while we've moved around, we've tried to go to this one without a moving best man.

Well, those names that have come in, particularly from Henry and from...

and sometimes from George Schultz that Christ people I don't know and people that are against us and all that sort of thing.

Goddamn, I'm glad to have a friend.

Well, it's like, you know, all that's talked about, it would be a terrible thing to kick that alimento out of the environment.

It doesn't turn out to be a terrible thing at all.

When George Bundy rumbled a little bit and said it wasn't, it was too bad.

That's right.

We agreed it was too bad, but we said it just wouldn't wash. That's right.

Now the guy's gone.

So we took an hour of discomfort on George Chelsea's part.

If we had the guy in, we'd have three years.

And somewhere next year, you know, God damn well, when the environment is a heated issue in the campaign or something, that guy would have had a chat with us.

Let me remember quickly before our cell returns.

I guess he's the other one.

The problem that he really is saying about him is that part of what I do, if you sort of know what I mean, too, the candidates and staff really don't show any patience.

I mean, I'll die next time.

I'll write some of those.

The best of calls.

That's all.

Now, I'll just take a couple of messages.

This time I want you to do it before 3 o'clock.

Again, instead of, and I think this is where we don't show passion or commitment to our policy toward the president, that's what we should be talking about.

If you get back to the winding hand story.

Now, I'm not so much concerned about the president.

But by passion, you know what I mean?

You've got to just be more than just getting up.

As a matter of fact, giving them the law, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know what I mean?

God damn it, you get all over there, and they've got to cry a little, and they've got to demagogue a little, and they've got to be outraged, and they've got to dem and kick somebody in the ass.

Now, you've got to get this across to Earlyman.

He's got to get it down.

Earlyman and Schultz are going to get it into the staff.

You know, you've got to get it across to Ziegler and Klein, people like them, God damn it.

They've got to show, you see, the impression, let me say, a man is known by the men he selects around him.

And so they say the president has a bunch of mechanical, cold, efficient, intelligent men.

I don't get credit for that, for the word intelligent at least, but we should.

That's what we don't get, but the current theory is wrong.

That's all the country wants.

The country wants more than that.

I don't know that he's wrong.

I understand maybe that's all the country should have.

But Connolly feels strongly about it.

That's why I got raised all about that goddamn thing in Texas.

He says, goddamn.

He says Lincoln should be out there charging.

Say, I'm not worried about that hay.

Is that farmer going to get that hay?

You know, it's talking about that hay and not farting around about whether there's a cost accounting system.

See what I mean?

We talk in terms of statistics and all the rest of it.

Everything we get out of here isn't a goddamn word.

Warm, passion, strength.

Speech writing takes any problem.

That's the point.

Code now then writes in something that's warm.

That's enough.

The problem, the caretaker in order to do this has got to tax the money.

Here in New Mexico, he's a cold fish.

But his words sometimes have warmth.

That's why they think of him as a personality.

which we're already working on, the need for our staff people to get out of the war and the commitment and so forth from our private meetings.

Now, are you satisfied that we have a good procedure to do that?

I'm satisfied we have a good procedure.

I'm sorry, we don't have one.

Since he's a nut, we can't have him.

But can I just tell you this?

Can I just tell you this?

Everybody loved the Kennedy thing.

Jerry Reid, Lansky's book, The Man and the Man.

All that crap about Kennedy was totally a myth.

He was not warm.

He was not kind.

He was not friends.

He was not gracious.

And he was not dignified.

None of those things.

But that they created by talk, right?

Which is exactly what Leonard said.

What can I do with it?

Now, the need, I'll just be a second.

I know, I know, I'll see you before they come in.

The need for, I think I'm talking to the price about there, and I see, and an old material that has a little more, like the kind of stuff I've done about one time at a time, for money.

And it's raised, it was raised with a little guy that grew it in Florida, maybe by a company.

We're not our press conferences and our press conferences and our conversations, because it's all the same thing.

It's the Q&A thing.

We're not, as Connelly says, they should show just basically our emotions.

and not be so, frankly, responsible.

But he really said, be a little responsible.

Be a loner, get mad.

Kick somebody in the eye.

He said, God damn it, I don't like that.

You see my point?

Now, Peter Henry,

John, all the rest go right up the wall, he said, because you see, they all flash back every press conference afterwards as they should and say, well, it's this or that or the other thing.

It doesn't get us into trouble.

Connelly's point is, the man isn't going to come through unless he does.

And I think Connelly is reflecting to a certain extent on that.

is sort of, here, subconsciously, his reaction to Johnson.

Johnson raved and ran and waved his arms and so forth and so on, and it hurt.

He went too far.

Yeah, but he gets his point right.

He went too far, too.

You don't.

I mean, there's no danger of you going too far because you don't, your natural way is not better.

Johnson's natural way was better.

He's fighting so that, he says, now, here's what I really want to get down to.

I'd like you to get early in Schultz's history.

Maybe Vincent Rumsfeld and Garmin.

Now, they're here to talk to you.

Maybe Garmin should be in the second room.

I'd like you to talk to them.

You know, here we are, even under the illusion, at least in the press conference and the conversations, we're about right, haven't we?

Well, I don't know.

You look at it on television and so forth, and most people have it pretty good, right?

In fact, or did you get this other time?

No.

You run into this a little bit, but not very much.

Most of them, as a matter of fact, you know, they have sometimes said that I wasn't going to be moved by the demonstrators' arrest, you know, that show, and people objected to it, remember?

Remember?

Yeah.

How many of you like that, you see?

That's the kind of thing he's talking about.

He says, stick up.

The other group is Price, Sapphire, Moore, Klein, Ziegler, and Scali.

And Colson, this is not a judgment thing.

This is a PR kind of a thing.

Maybe you do read them.

What I want you to do is talk to them.

What about a press conference?

It's a very important file.

I don't want any discussion in terms of how we change evidence in the press.

Is it partly me, as an administration, and I, when I press coverage, rather than you reflecting anything, which is...

This is a point we really never discussed before, even after all of the, the end of the year deal, you know.

You didn't really go to the press conference, you know, in the conversations.

We only, the only question, how much more should we do?

We didn't even, how much more should we do?

How do we sell?

The joke really was, how do we sell?

All right, fine.

All right, let's be quite honest and let's find out.

Maybe we'll go over all the things there.

Maybe we shouldn't even, you see my point?

Maybe they don't like her.

Now, the other thing I want to say is that you can't change a man.

I can't get her to be something that I am not, but other people can talk about me in a way that I'm not.

Do you see what I mean?

That is the whole point.

That's what they did with the Kennedy.

See?

But I don't even know what they think.

I don't know whether you could bring Rumsfeld in there or not.

Maybe not Rumsfeld.

I don't know.

What do you think?

I like Rumsfeld.

So is it super pure or something?

He would argue that things go up a little bit.

You should go out and do what I'm cracking at us and say there's a mixed picture that's going up a little bit and preserve your credibility.

But my point is, what I'm really getting at is maybe it's more price, garment, sapphire.

Yeah.

Wine, I leave out.

Scallion, I wrote in.

Right?

It's kind of a thing he ought to sit in.

Here in Charleston, they got it because they were running it hard.

Let's have a little chat on this and say that here, he raised it, but let's not make no mistake, I think he may be right about the passion, the idea that the staff and the cabinet, the real flaw is they don't show us that they gave a shit.

You know what I mean?

that they're very honest, they're very hard-working, and all that sort of thing, but it's a mechanical, efficient, cold job, rather than that by God they care.

See my point?

Now, I want you to ask Rogers this when he comes back.

I'm sure Rogers will disagree with Tom.

I told him.

See, Rogers does not.

And it's because he doesn't want to change his views.

But what's your sort of thought on this?

And I don't think you want to do it.

Excuse me, would you like Bernie to step back too?

Yeah.

It's the largest party, but it's... Well, he's history.

History is part of history.

Yeah, he's history, but it's just the largest thing in the party.

But that isn't the point.

What he wants to discuss with you is what he would like.

What it would be helpful for you to say is, one, that you are in favor of maintaining the federal presence in Berlin, and that we will not give that up.

And that you've already said disagree with me, because secondly, I agree to East German sovereignty over the access route.

Why this is helpful is, if he doesn't get that from you, his party is going to vote condemnation of the whole negotiation.

but now help our gain.

It's not acceptable.

We accept that.

We have said it, but if he hears it from you, that would help.

And that you are not intent, we will not agree to the elimination of federal presence from West Virginia.

Those are the two sentences.

If you could get those two sentences into the House.

Fine.

You race, I'll let you carry the man.

I'm very well up on this.

Why, he's gonna bring us in two.

Well, you've only got a half hour.

I will, I will.

I'll bring him.

I was told he had an artery burn, so I'm flying it to you.

Okay.

I'll write about this.

Did Bob have a chance to raise to Henry Hufford?

No.

He's an artist from China.

No, I don't think he has a chance to raise to Henry Hufford.

It's fine.

Sit down.

Everybody watch.

I'll see you in a while.

I think the area of greatest importance

Just a problem for two points I would like to emphasize that I think we know our position.

Quite often ambassadors have been stated in other connections, and I also stated it to Mr. Groninger when he was here, three things going on.

The firm proposition that there is, that has to be negotiated, but there must be a federal presence.

You can't isolate permanent from the federal government.

I think one point.

The second point is the matter of the access rooms.

We believe that there, that we cannot have

by the East Germans over those access routes.

Now, what has worked out in terms of how to keep those routes open and not to have a crisis every month, that's something else, but the question of sovereignty over those routes would, in effect, give the East Germans the power to choke the life of

like that, and that cannot be.

So, now, having stated those two propositions, and other matters, not sure for the negotiators to work out, but we have taken, that I take, in all my meetings, whether it's with the Chancellor, or with you, or with your maker, it's all the same, always the same.

The government presence must remain relevant.

What it is, that's the question.

And second, sovereignty over the access roads must not be conceded, must not be given up to the Germans.

And I don't know if there's anything you want to add, Henry.

You've been following these negotiations.

That's probably a fair statement.

There are very many technical issues, other technical issues, but those are the key issues, Mr. President.

You made clear to Gramego, the way the President expressed it to Gramego was that the federal government cannot be cut.

And so that we are in favor, we will not yield on the issue of federal presence in West Virginia.

of sovereignty, now you know, the treaty draft that has been tabled, and how we propose to handle that issue, and you know, as a group, so that there will be some measure of full power, responsibility over that.

And that is our position, and we have no intention, as the President pointed out, of giving it up.

That's where it stands right now.

And we have other technical problems you want to discuss with the planner.

.

It was so important for me to express my gratitude to you in September that you encouraged me not to let the in-political scene in Germany become a total confrontation over the foreign policy.

I have expressed this in strong terms in view of the joint position of Berlin and the government and have put our position in the contracts.

I have now come to a point where I have to have this conversation, or, if I live in Germany, then I will ask Berlin, as to the contracts, publicly.

If the controversy with the government has to go, then I will have to wait for it.

President, if you allow me to say a few words in a frame my English is insufficient to understand, I may need to speak German.

First of all, let me thank you very much for receiving me here to have this discussion here.

And I'm very glad also to hear from you these two points, which you expressed in such a clear and precise manner.

Please now allow me to say why I did not support this talk.

You were kind enough in September to express your recognition for the way in which I have tried at home not to let on the domestic scene where a total confrontation on foreign policy issues cries.

And I try to make this and make the best efforts to go along with our government on the burning question.

And we have, I have so far postponed our own stand, expressing our own position on the treaties.

But matters have now come to the point where we, where I must have this talk or else,

go to the public and express myself in public both on the question of the land and on the question of the teachers.

I think it would be too easy to do both for the foreign policy and the internal policy developers, if not right now.

As far as the benefits are concerned, Mr. President, we have only tested them for nine months.

We see that the Soviet Union does not make any counter-performance to the United States and is firmly committed to accepting these contracts.

The Russian contract will not get the vote of the CUC so easily.

I do not know if it would find a majority in parliament.

As far as this is concerned, I have very well obtained the three points from the Congress project.

And I just want to tell you one more thing.

Please listen to what I have to say.

A Berlin solution means that the Berliners accept you and don't pack your suitcase.

I'll tell you tomorrow that a Berlin solution is coming up that is bad.

Pack the part that wasn't ready and put it in my head.

I don't want that.

In Berlin, only the 125,000 young people who go to work every year live.

As a result, the bonds that you have marked as life-threatening are preserved.

And since your president and the NATO are not only a territorial security, but also a democracy, there is no federal presence in the administrative area or a parliamentary control.

The fact that you are still part of the Bundestag and that your party still belongs to the reality should remain a secret.

And I do believe that if I should have to make such a public statement, if I should have to go to the public in this way, this would not be entirely conducive both on domestic and on the foreign policy scene.

Now, as far as the treaties are concerned, Mr. President,

We have checked them, we have studied them now for nine months, and the Soviet Union has not made anything, has not made any concessions in return, not on Berlin either, and we are now firmly resolved to reject them.

When the Russian treaties come up in the Federal Parliament at Worcester, there will be not one vote from the CDU-CSU in favour of them, and I do not know whether they will achieve majority in Parliament.

As far as the Berlin issue is concerned, I do well recall the three points which you made in your congressional message.

I only ask you to consider one more subject, one more aspect in your overall assessment of the Berlin problem, Mr. President.

A Berlin solution must such

must be such as not to cause the Berlin people to pack up and pack their suitcases.

And if I did come out tomorrow and say that the Berlin solution, which is becoming apparent, is a bad solution, this would mean that those people who are behind me, who voted for me, will pack up and will get out of Berlin.

And Berlin is only viable when it can only live, because 25,000 young people go there each year to work in Berlin.

So this is part of what you were talking about, all the political war, which links Berlin to the Federal Republic and which must be maintained.

Because you, Mr. President, and NATO, do not wish to preserve any or maintain a territory there, but rather a democracy.

On the question of federal presence there, there must also be the parliamentary control.

There must not only be an administrative presence, but there must also be the parliamentary controls and the parliamentary presence, so that what is now a reality of the federal presence, by way of parliamentary committees and parliamentary political group meetings in Berlin, must be maintained.

I would like to add one last point.

If you look at this Russian paper, the Russian paper, there are two points of interest to him.

One is the clarity of the federal process, that is, the cohesion, and the access to the matter of the four states.

Of course, there is also the great concern that through the back door of any formulation

the miscontrol of the Soviet Union, or the behavior of the territory of Berlin.

All of this leads to an attack on the democratic order, an attack on the freedom of speech.

And I am very glad that you have allowed me to say these thoughts here.

You are very serious, President.

I have not easily followed the request of my friends.

to ask you to make it completely clear to the responsible leader of the Western world that, depending on how the situation develops, he has a situation with the opposition to his right.

And since this opposition is ready to find a modus vivendi with the Soviet Union, also with the GDR, it is practically impossible.

But we are not ready for any cultural, historical, no,

We see that the Soviets interpret the whole policy of Brandt in a completely different way than Brandt.

The Soviets say, as I say, it is valid.

Brandt's article is only a single article.

There are two different articles.

And with our help, there will never be a German signature and an unclear content.

I would like, President, if you allow me, to draw attention to that as a German.

from Brezhnev's thesis No.

2, where he clearly says what the Russians tell us in private.

Now it's all over.

We are, I believe, in other worries in the Western world.

I don't want to talk so long.

I have to explain why I prayed to be here.

May I add one last item, Mr. President?

If we look at the Turkish document, we are very grateful to you, sir, for having expressed so very clearly the two points which you made us to say.

One about the federal presence, that is to say, of other groups not belonging together, and the other one concerning the access rights, which remains under all power status.

There is also one additional danger that in some way, by some wording, through the back door might come in an additional snag in that the Soviet Union would, together with the four powers, exercise their rights over the three western sectors only.

just as the Western sector is all that certain items might be dependent on what we call the good behaviour of West Germany.

This would clearly mean interference with democracy and with the freedom of opinion.

I am very glad that you allowed me to express these thoughts.

They are very serious, and it was not quite heartily that I joined here, but I vow to read suggestions of my friends to present these to the responsible leader of the Western world and to present our ideas of what your opposition will have to do and what it will have to oppose.

Of course, the German opposition will be ready

To go along with the Soviet Union and with the present proposals made as far as many practical matters of modus vivendi are concerned, many practical problems which we might perhaps discuss with Mr. Kessinger in detail, but we are not ready to accept any such solution.

as it is being outlined now, as anything final.

And we see that the Soviet Union interprets the Brandt policy in a different way.

We have Brandt that says this is just a modest event which is being found, and the Soviet Union states that this is something final.

And these are clearly two different points of view.

And with our help, there will be no signature under anything which is unclear as far as this question of substance is concerned.

And Mr. President, may I, as a gentleman, also mention the thesis number two, pronounced by Mr. Brezhnev.

When he said what?

When these settlements will have been reached, what will then be of, what will then be at stake, will be all of Europe.

And this, of course, takes us to a different level of our common worries, our common concerns in the Western world.

I apologize for having talked that long.

But anyway, Mr. President, I wanted to explain why I had to ask you for this talk.

I understand the...

that with regard to Soviet intentions, it's very important to recognize that Berlin and Germany is the beginning.

Yes, and it's more for the future.

Right now, it's Berlin and Germany.

It says to me, we, I, am under no illusions, whatever they are to the intentions.

The intentions are to get as much as they can out of this incident, as you call it, and pay as little as they can for that reason that...

In our participation, our talks have been on these fundamental propositions that I have mentioned.

If you have other concerns on technical matters, I think it would be very helpful if you would pass them on to Dr. History, because he is in

I also know what a terrible problem this must be for the German people, for your party.

You want, actually, you want a position for Berlin.

You would like some lessening of tensions.

And yet you were aware of the great danger of making a treaty

which does not take into account, in a very precise way, these fundamental principles that we have insisted upon.

We, of course,

As far as the treaty is concerned, we cannot take a position.

That's between you and the Soviet, your government, the Soviet government.

As far as Berlin is concerned, we do take a position.

We are there.

We do take a position.

And there, we...

I want to assure you that we will not compromise the principles that I have mentioned.

The principles that I have mentioned.

The ambassador does the same thing to the brown people.

We speak that.

Or to Gramego.

In fact, I said it more strongly to him.

He knows what we mean.

Let me ask you a question.

What is the general opinion at the present time?

They're probably very troubled.

They don't know.

I mean, the people generally, they want, they would like to have a lesson of attention, and yet they're suspicious and very skeptical.

Well, so is that about it?

But how would you evaluate this in Germany?

I'm just curious.

I would like to try to answer the question.

I think in Germany the global anti-communism is over.

The older generation.

And now there is a protest by the parties.

That an attempt to get along with the Soviet Union and to go as far as they wanted has been unsuccessful.

There is a protest.

And this deception can fall in the wrong direction.

This is also one of the reasons why we should not have a total confrontation in Germany in foreign policy now, because otherwise there can be a wrong national order.

We have heard with great pride that the president of the USA, who is the only statesman who still does this, has locked up the Germans.

foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign

I would say that in Germany, the all-out unrefined and anti-communism is a thing of the past, even within the older generation.

And across the board, throughout the parties, there is now a feeling of disappointment that all the efforts, going even as far as Mr. Brandt did, to come to better terms with the Russians, with the Soviets, did not lead to any success.

And there is the danger that such disappointment might turn around into the wrong direction.

Which is which direction?

This may be very near the direction that the president in Germany would have nationalism on the left and on the right, or this kind of socialism again.

Or it might get... Ideologically, nobody can possibly have that.

Because this is why we do not wish to have an all-out political confrontation on these foreign policy issues in order not to turn this into the wrong nationalistic direction altogether.

to allow any wrong nationalistic overtones to creep into this.

And I am very glad that the President of the United States, the only one here on this matter to say that, including the German government, stated in his message that there would be no lessening of tension or relaxation of tension in Europe without progress in the German questions.

We were very satisfied with this and we do try to arrive at a modest event with the GDR, but we do not, we cannot agree to a possibility which would exclude the question.

We cannot do a loss politic which would exclude, which would not include Peter with you.

And there we have not yet come to the heart of the matter, to the core of the matter.

There can be a loss politic without... That is your issue, right?

One point that Mr. Busson made before, which perhaps didn't come across as sharply, is that

The German government has presented the Gauss-Politik as a temporary arrangement to permit other Russians to take it.

It is a definite, final arrangement, and this produces a problem in German domestic politics in this Russia.

Yes, of course.

Of course.

The situation in general is dangerous.

The economic situation is not so good.

We have the lunchtime, that is to say, the state elections all the time coming up in the various states.

So far their results have been good for us.

There is a worry that in the European policy field there might be some further frustration ahead of us, so I would assess the general mood as a rather subdued one.

If I may add one thing, if you travel to Moscow or Warsaw or East Berlin and don't want to know anything about Karl Marx anymore, there is currently in Germany, up to the Catholic theologians, a renaissance of Marxism-Leninism.

That would be very interesting.

If I might add one comment, whereas in Moscow, Warsaw, and East Berlin, they no longer want to have anything to do, or they're not very keen on Karl Marx anymore, they can generally be given down to the faculty theologians.

There is a true renaissance of Marxism, which is a very interesting phenomenon to observe.

Very good.

It's true in Latin America, isn't it?

Where they know it, they don't want it.

Where they don't know it, they're interested.

Not as much about it as among the internationals.

Sure.

Not as much as the workers.

They're closer to the land.

Well, we, uh, we, uh, it's very helpful to get this, you know, to be able to stand so, so candidly and, uh,

Whenever you're here, as I told Dr. Kissinger, I'll be delighted to see, I think, a legend.

I understand Dr. Kissinger may be over sometime.

Yes, he is.

How's that going?

We see the government.

We also want to see the Democrats.

That's the way we want it.

We only do this with the major countries.

We go with the British.

Like I will, if Wilson comes over, I'll see him.

The branch, there's not really a minority party we're seeing at the present time.

And the Italians are not too many parties.

But the Germans, it's really the Germans and the British, isn't it?

But when we get to other countries like Japan, I don't treat the socialists like the Prime Minister.

But we want to because we respect the two-party system.

And both of you can contribute to our peaceful world.

And we hope for you.

including a free Berlin, but not a free city.

Okay, thank you very much.

You're very welcome.

Well, good luck to you, and give my best to all your colleagues and everyone out there.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Always good to see you.

Dr. Henry Hill knows my views very well, and thank you very much for your talk.

Good.

Okay.